Author Topic: Clubsport S - Colours, Spec & Info ...  (Read 51464 times)

Offline GT4

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Re: Clubsport S - Colours, Spec & Info ...
« Reply #50 on: 06 October 2016, 22:49 »
Snoopy

The CS-S has just been praised by The Top Gear Team in its COTY 2016 and made it to the Final 5 alongside some serious metal including Ferrari, McLaren and Porsche - of course the Porsche Won but the CS-S has been labelled as the best Golf GTi ever and one of the best hot hatches ever made! Chris Harris giving it rave reviews ...  :whistle:

Andrew
If Chris Harris actually puts his money were his mouth is and puts one in his garage collection with his collection of french hot hatches. AXGT, 205XS, 205 rallye I may take note. Don't forget he also gave good reviews to the GTI and R.
So lets see if he sells his 1M or CLK black and buys one.

Snoopy ...

I don't see why you have got such a critical turn of phrase for the CS-S ..? Surely someone as respected as Chris Harris saying positive things about a VW product is only a good thing ... The thread is about the CS-S ... I drove an R and thought it very good and may yet dislike the CS-S after being used to a GT4 but never the less its great for all GTi enthusiasts that VW have built a proper limited run car with a clear design brief & intent!

To see it received so well from the press who place it above the legendary Ford RS and have it in COTY 2016 Final 5 at £34k is truly fantastic for all those lucky enough to get their names down before launch ... and also those who cherish their VW Golf and its GTi pedigree!

Andrew

I wonder how many GTI enthusiasts are actually buying this car. To me this is more a car for the rich who want a track toy as let's face it, it's completely impractical without the back seats. How many GTI enthusiasts are going to be able to afford this car as I'm guessing they use their GTI as their daily so probably need back seats.

The CS for the enthusiast yes but not the CS-S

Not sure you are 100% on the mark there as anyone spending £34k on a hot hatch with cash (no finance and discount support on clubsport S) is going to be relatively ok for money. Your insinuation seems to be relative to practicality and affordability when I can tell you with a high degree of authority (having sold VW for 12 years) that a decent percentage of GTI buyers have both the money, and rarely use the back seats of their cars. There are plenty of GTI enthusiasts that don't need back seats or could probably live without them to have the best version of their favourite hatch.

This car lives in the same kind of marketplace as the M3, M2 AMG A class and other impractical cars, the difference is it rides in a way that makes it acceptable to drive to work, yet races like a fiend. It's not pointless, its a practical everyday car for 2 people who want to carry stuff but also have something genuinely sporty to drive. It's a classic GTI easy to drive everyday, but will turn into a monster when asked along with the soundtrack from the new exhaust and drivetrain.

It may be pointless to you if you have more than 2 people to put in a car, but don't confuse that with those that only have themselves and their significant other to put in it. For them and their budget a coupe may be a compromise too far but a clubsport S might be just what they need. Desirable, large load area, powerful, very capable and hopefully low depreciation.

Lets face it what other options have you got, GT86 and MX5 are slower and less practical. Focus RS is not available and too hardcore. Civic type R is a harder ride and the quality of interior isn't there. Mini is tiny. Clubsport is not as special. R is not as dynamic. M series BMW is more expensive and less practical. AMG merc is more expensive and smaller, also not as dynamic. Anything Audi is more expensive and slightly dull. There isn't really anything which compares.

Great points JJ ... I would say the CS-S is the very "essence" of a Golf Gti - the 5 Door R is the logical choice if you want 365 days a year practicality but the CS-S gives hopefully that "special" feeling to ownership and the drive that has been lacking from a Golf GTi for 25 Years some would say ... VW have pulled off a Blinder and if Chris Harris agrees thats good enough for me ... ;)

Offline CraigW

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Re: Clubsport S - Colours, Spec & Info ...
« Reply #51 on: 07 October 2016, 10:20 »

Lets face it what other options have you got, GT86 and MX5 are slower and less practical. Focus RS is not available and too hardcore. Civic type R is a harder ride and the quality of interior isn't there. Mini is tiny. Clubsport is not as special. R is not as dynamic. M series BMW is more expensive and less practical. AMG merc is more expensive and smaller, also not as dynamic. Anything Audi is more expensive and slightly dull. There isn't really anything which compares.

So basically you're dismissing every possible rival to the impractical GTI CS-S? People are so blinkered by their loyalty to one brand

Offline clubsport

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Re: Clubsport S - Colours, Spec & Info ...
« Reply #52 on: 07 October 2016, 11:14 »
I am not over fussed about media interpretations, I am looking forward to seeing owners perception of the CS-S when they get one, it may turn out to be truly great and VW have done enough to hit the sweet spot with the car.

Harris loves it, great......is he buying one with his own money?...... I thought not!

Offline vipergts

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Re: Clubsport S - Colours, Spec & Info ...
« Reply #53 on: 07 October 2016, 14:12 »

Lets face it what other options have you got, GT86 and MX5 are slower and less practical. Focus RS is not available and too hardcore. Civic type R is a harder ride and the quality of interior isn't there. Mini is tiny. Clubsport is not as special. R is not as dynamic. M series BMW is more expensive and less practical. AMG merc is more expensive and smaller, also not as dynamic. Anything Audi is more expensive and slightly dull. There isn't really anything which compares.

So basically you're dismissing every possible rival to the impractical GTI CS-S? People are so blinkered by their loyalty to one brand

No blinkerage here

I'm a serial car owner/buyer of many marques and I've not bought a VW for many donkeys years.

The CS-S as already mentioned is not an impractical car to all. I've been waiting for a car like this for ages. It's arriving and I cant wait

Offline scanesare

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Re: Clubsport S - Colours, Spec & Info ...
« Reply #54 on: 07 October 2016, 16:42 »
The definition of "practical" may be different for each one of us, some people even ride motorcycles and find them pretty good for daily commutes but realistically, I'd imagine the majority of owners, even performance car ones, expect rear seats to be in the standard equipment. Even EVO on its recent uber hatch test that awarded the CS-S 1st place, stated that "probably a standard Clubsport with PSC2 tyres will tick more boxes for most buyers". To me at least, the CS-S was not even a contender during my "next car" search a few months back as its failure to transport 3 people ruled it out from the start.

Just a few thoughts on whether and how much more special the CS-S feels than the CS, as it was mentioned as an alternative a few posts back:

Marketing aside and looking at technical facts and data, a standard Clubsport with its uprated suspension, geometry and steering rack is already a much more capable Golf than any of its brothers that hardly needed a 15kg weight saving from the rear seats to go round the ring in less than 07:50. This is something that you feel from the very first turn you take with the car, especially if you've just come out of an R test-drive. That's why it serves as the base for 90%+ for the CS-S. Respecting the variant hierarchy and ensuring the R was still the flagship model in people's eyes were the true reasons behind the CS-S (call me: CS over-boost function). A 400 limited edition with what is interpreted as terminal impracticality (for 99,9% of car buyers) was the least upsetting way to do it. Which is also why the mechanical differences between the two variants are very particular and well... simple. If the base car was not already very near to that performance level or lacked the steering feel, it would take some serious modifications to get there. As an example, try upgrading just the hub carriers, brake bells, pads and fiddle with the geometry on another ordinary car. You think you'd end up with a car that feels any special at all? Answer: no....

Another very important factor is that the two cars are identical in terms of looks/bodykit. It would be hard to ignore an even more aggressive/sportier/sexier look/interior as it usually happens with the top uber-sport variants (think Porsche) as hard as it is to do the same between an R and a Clubsport for example, but between a CS and CS-S this simply isn't the case. So there goes a real "special" factor that could have been gained in favor of the CS-S. That I agree, would have been very hard to match (aesthetic modifications usually end up looking much worse than mechanical ones, if it's not there from the factory, it will never look as good).

I know the OP has mentioned future values, collectors attraction etc. that surely could be in favor of the CS-S (compared to the CS) but that's another discussion, which can only be held at a theoretical level until a few years go by.

(This is not about which is the best car to buy and please spare me from comments in that spirit...)
« Last Edit: 07 October 2016, 16:49 by scanesare »

Offline Clubsport S

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Re: Clubsport S - Colours, Spec & Info ...
« Reply #55 on: 07 October 2016, 17:24 »


Snoopy

The CS-S has just been praised by The Top Gear Team in its COTY 2016 and made it to the Final 5 alongside some serious metal including Ferrari, McLaren and Porsche - of course the Porsche Won but the CS-S has been labelled as the best Golf GTi ever and one of the best hot hatches ever made! Chris Harris giving it rave reviews ...  :whistle:

Andrew
[/quote]


Worth a look at the video which is now online:

http://www.topgear.com/videos/chris-harris-drives/chris-harris-drives-tgs-speed-week-special

Offline jjgreenwood

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Re: Clubsport S - Colours, Spec & Info ...
« Reply #56 on: 07 October 2016, 20:48 »

Lets face it what other options have you got, GT86 and MX5 are slower and less practical. Focus RS is not available and too hardcore. Civic type R is a harder ride and the quality of interior isn't there. Mini is tiny. Clubsport is not as special. R is not as dynamic. M series BMW is more expensive and less practical. AMG merc is more expensive and smaller, also not as dynamic. Anything Audi is more expensive and slightly dull. There isn't really anything which compares.

So basically you're dismissing every possible rival to the impractical GTI CS-S? People are so blinkered by their loyalty to one brand

I'm talking you through why I'm buying one. The other performance cars are not suitable for me. Yes I'm loyal to the brand but I'm surprised you don't understand the attraction of the car for the likes of me. I doubt anyone has ever sat in the back of a golf I've had. Lots of furniture and tip run stuff has though.
Sales Manager - Inchcape Volkswagen Swindon

VW Golf GTI Clubsport S - GO15 CSS

Offline GT4

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Re: Clubsport S - Colours, Spec & Info ...
« Reply #57 on: 07 October 2016, 23:10 »
I can't understand this guys ... I join a GTi Forum to celebrate the humble Golf and talk about the best Golf ever designed to date, going toe to toe with Ferrari, Mclaren and the legendary Porsche 911 and giving more bang for its buck and loads of you say, Aghhh its no good, got no rear seats, only good for a Nurburgring time and impractical - What the Hell ... You should be celebrating - VW has just made their first ever Sports car in 25 years and in many ways their first GT car equivalent ... Thats like a Porsche enthusiast saying that the worst thing Porsche ever did was make the GT3 ... This is totally crazy IMO - The CS-S looks to be one of the best Sports cars in the World for 2016/17 ... Lets celebrate  :cool:

Offline scanesare

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Re: Clubsport S - Colours, Spec & Info ...
« Reply #58 on: 08 October 2016, 10:14 »
I can't understand this guys ... I join a GTi Forum to celebrate the humble Golf and talk about the best Golf ever designed to date, going toe to toe with Ferrari, Mclaren and the legendary Porsche 911 and giving more bang for its buck and loads of you say, Aghhh its no good, got no rear seats, only good for a Nurburgring time and impractical - What the Hell ... You should be celebrating - VW has just made their first ever Sports car in 25 years and in many ways their first GT car equivalent ... Thats like a Porsche enthusiast saying that the worst thing Porsche ever did was make the GT3 ... This is totally crazy IMO - The CS-S looks to be one of the best Sports cars in the World for 2016/17 ... Lets celebrate  :cool:

Not sure who you mean here, I had a rather long debate on another thread defending the CS-S excellent performance against supposedly superior sports cars if you remember. And I don't think anyone here claimed it's a bad car, that would be nonsense.

Still, the truth is that for the majority of people the CS-S is indifferent. As indifferent as any 2-seater would be no matter the performance. And even more because the very few that don't mind the 2 seats, they can't buy it. So, a great car yes but a reason for many to party and be excited about? No. Why would a VW / Golf / or even GTI owner care for something he wouldn't even consider to buy? The WRC Polo dominating the championship in recent years offers far more motorsport pedigree and a strong reason to make VW owners feel excited in that aspect.

For me the real party time was when I read that VW finally was about to use the Cupra recipe and create a serious sports Golf with superior handling and steering capabilities with the Clubsport variant, that the rest of the Golf range lacked until that point. All while being a fully daily car. My feelings sky-rocketed when I actually saw the final result, the bespoke bodykit and interior. That was the car to be really excited about (for me).

I've said it before. VW screwed this up by trying not to upset its range (call me R). There was no need at all for two variants. They did a great job on the standard Clubsport and they could have continued the tweaking just that bit more and offer a car that can go as fast right from the factory, without the need to cripple it from its rear seats and make it an indifferent (for most) collector's item.

Also, it's only natural to make comparisons between such similar variants as the CS and CS-S. Both in the technical as well as the performance sector. A couple of lap times for both cars on the same track are already out and for roughly 1" gained per minute on the CS-S it seems that the biggest thing between them is the "not-so-exciting" extra 45ps. Let me be clear: I don't doubt that the CS-S further suspension tweaks are helping, but I am not sure this happens before taking both cars near their limits. Dan Prosser from EVO seems to agree on that. On the contrary, you can tell the difference between a Clubsport and an R from the very first corners in the city.

So yes, the CS-S broke the record, got all the lights etc. and as stock is a better choice for anyone who doesn't need the usual number of seats or modern car luxuries like a good sound system or high infotainment etc. No arguing with that at all, in fact since VW deliberately held the standard CS back a little with the under-boost (as it should be called), I quite like it the CS-S is out. But getting over-excited about it? Hmm, not when the CS is also on (actual) offer. If I am allowed that is....  :smiley:

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: Clubsport S - Colours, Spec & Info ...
« Reply #59 on: 08 October 2016, 14:50 »
I can't understand this guys ... I join a GTi Forum to celebrate the humble Golf and talk about the best Golf ever designed to date, going toe to toe with Ferrari, Mclaren and the legendary Porsche 911 and giving more bang for its buck and loads of you say, Aghhh its no good, got no rear seats, only good for a Nurburgring time and impractical - What the Hell ... You should be celebrating - VW has just made their first ever Sports car in 25 years and in many ways their first GT car equivalent ... Thats like a Porsche enthusiast saying that the worst thing Porsche ever did was make the GT3 ... This is totally crazy IMO - The CS-S looks to be one of the best Sports cars in the World for 2016/17 ... Lets celebrate  :cool:

I think it's more comparable to bemoaning Porsche releasing the Panemera (developing a family car from sports car, the exact opposite of what VW has done with the CSS) - With it's diminished practicality, the CSS is more of a track toy than the everyday all-rounder the Golf is supposed to be, the CSS defies the purpose of the Golf as a model. Out on the road, driving it in a lawful way it's practically no quicker than the standard CS which is effectively 290ps, because out on the road you will not run out of overboost when you put your foot down unless you want a driving ban. 15 seconds of overboost from a standing start will probably get you to 95mph, way more than you need to avoid the risk of losing your license.

It's no bad thing - pushing the boundaries during development helps tech filter down eventually, but for the majority of people here, anyone making the full use of the CSS will not be using it as their primary car, making it a truly niche Golf.
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