Hi guys
sorry for the delay, bit of a hangover to shake off
So it was a very fun but actually quite tiring day trying to download all my thoughts from yesterdays GTi - R -S3 -RS3-M235 - 330D fest.. So first of all, the positive surprises and disappointments..
1. I was genuinely excited about driving the RS3 but was a bit disappointed with the drive. Sounds angry as hell on start up, but the 5 cyl didn't sound quite as good as I thought it would.. Stunning to look at personally, drew quite a few turned heads with the aggressive looks.. Lovely inside with the super sport seats and I guess if I had money to but would love to have one. For me though, an S3 offers 90% of the real world performance and all the same qualities, much lower running costs (RS3 showed 18mpg average, S3 managed 27), for 75% of the price.
2. M235 surprised me. I didn't get on with the M135 and Auto box a year or so ago but the 235 just felt like a better more solid, planted drive. Maybe the longer wheelbase and stiffer chassis. Engine sounds fantastic and has real punch, I would say apart from the RS3 grip an M235 would be pretty much as quick on most driving and for some reason this time I liked the auto box.
3. Disappointed at how outdated and clunky the GTi / R infotainment system is now... A couple of years ago it looked fresh but now it look outdated and slow, with poor graphics. I found it incredibly frustrating to try and find the menus to select driving modes but in fact anything. BMW's professional nav is by far the best in this class - and better than the nav on the S3 as well in my view. Everything is much more intuitive and easy to find off one menu and the nav graphics are much much better. £900 option on the 330d v £1500 on the S3. Come on VAG that's a rip off.
4. GTI PP still offers most of the performance of the others at much lower costs and I assume running costs. It’s still a really good drive and with modest spec, good discount and the right colour I still like it a lot with the PP. Didn’t have a huge chance to test out the diff but did manage to push it and I think in most real world driving the decent torque would keep it in touch with the others. It’s a cracking everyday proposition and very tempting still at around £25k with discount. The R ? Hmm, I am personally not a convert, sorry guys. I totally understand why people would buy one, I really do. But for me the slight weakness with the GTi also applies to the R – interior quality is not up there with the Audi or BMW, the infotainment etc as an all round ownership proposition will lose more money. If you just want bang for buck though I would see why someone would buy one, but the appeal in the GTi PP is the price and everyday usability, running costs – once you step up from that and go over £30k I think I would pay a bit more for the S3 because the residuals are much better and I still think for a 4 cylinder car it is knocking on too much money.
I am looking for a longer term car that covers all bases, with a min 50% deposit so I really want to protect my money as much as possible and the S3 feels a safer place. Its only personal taste but I still prefer the classic look of the GTi PP in white to the R – I think its just a bit too subtle for the halo model. Hope that doesn’t offend anyone with an R – as said I 100% get why someone would get one, but its not on my shortlist im afraid and if I was stepping up from a GTi I would want a more expensive feeling power train ie 5 or 6 cylinders..
5. Loved the S3 much more than I thought I would. Such a nice interior and feeling of quality, and in sportback form, with just a couple of options still makes me think it is the best place to put your own money for the long term, albeit its still vey pricey for 4 cylinders and to a degree the same shortcomings of the R apply. It is practical, quick, fun when you need it, refined when you don’t, understated so you don’t have boy racers on your backside all the time. I last drove an S3 in the previous model and didn’t like it at all, felt wooden and no fun – much preferred the Mk5 GTi as a daily car. This one to me feels much better though. Stunning traction – did a full bore standing start onto the dual carriageway on a greasy surface and not a hint of spin. Same applies to the R mind you.
So that is my initial thoughts… in terms of the individual cars and my impressions –
GTI PP. I still like the look in the right colour, love the seats, great standard spec so you don’t need to add much. I would have one with a manual box to keep the cost down and it’s a nice gearbox. Love the punchy torque and grip and lets be realistic, in 5 door form it’s a brilliant all rounder – read a review “ its plays all the averages without being in any way average” Couldn’t agree more. Still very tempted if I could get a really good deal on one, just not sure it would keep me satisfied for 3 years though and the cheap infotainment would really annoy me. GFVs have been hammered I think – 24 month PCP GFV is only £13,500 !? You can only put in 30% max on a VW PCP – WHY !? Audi you can do 50% so if you have a big deposit, it’s annoying within the same group ..as I don’t want to pay interest and keep the money in the bank earning less..
Golf R – Great performance per £, let’s face it, it’s an S3 underneath so why pay more if performance is all you want ? That’s the rub for me, it’s not just performance I want and so I would pay the extra for an S3. Where the GTi PP says value for money, the R is still a golf, albeit quicker but the interior quality is no better and the price a fair bit higher ( did they give it in my view, horrible cloth seats on purpose knowing most people would really have to spec leather to give it a premium feel ?). The headline price might be not that much more than the GTI PP but you have to add so many more options in my mind to make it feel “more desirable” wheareas I love the GTi with cloth seats, standard wheels, std spec etc, with the R I would want leather, 19inch wheels, nav, metallic paint etc.. and that erodes the benefit v the S3.
Audi S3 - Really impressed me as an all round proposition. Yes its expensive v the Golf R but personally I think it’s worth it and you would get you money back. Looking at used values of previous model S3’s they still go for £20k plus at 4 years old. Interior is lovely, not bad spec – leather and heated seats standard, decent standard alloys, 5 door practicality. I found it a really good all round drive and its right up there in my thoughts. Compare the PCP – with the 50% deposit you are allowed the PCP comes out at around £120 a month v £396 for the Golf GTi !! That means I can more or less do 50% down now, pay not a lot for 24 months then pay off the other half, that’s very appealing.
Audi RS3 – Stunning to look at and all the plusses of above with a better engine. Didn’t sound as amazing as I hoped though and not really realistic as an everyday driver for me. Love the aggressive and slightly subtle look and the front 8 piston brakes are just awesome. I did an 80-0 stop in what felt like about 3 seconds and it nearly ripped my face off. Worth the £50k or so ? Not for me, would put it into a Cayman for that money and worth double a GTi PP ? No chance !
M235i – really liked this car. I wasn’t originally going to drive it because of 2 doors and no 4wd means probably not the right car as an all year round daily driver. But access isn’t bad into the back and good boot. Lovely driving position, real feeling of quality up there with the S3 and a notch above the golfs. BMW Prof Nav for me is the best in the business at this price level – stunning graphics quality, so easy to use and also not mega £ option price. Engine is fantastic but you are always thinking “ go easy, its rear wheel drive” on anything other than dry roads whereas the R and S3 let you give it max all the time. If I had a GTi and wanted a move “up” I would have this up there on my list, specially if I didn’t want 4 doors. I will have a moan again about VAG fuel efficiency. Yes it’s not the no 1 priority but I caned the hell out of BMW’s 3 litre turbo 6 and got 25MPG average – so how then with a 2 litre 4 cylinder in the R and GTi did I only get 21 and 27 respectively on the same roads and same driving ? I have had lots of VAG and BMW cars and BMW engines are without question way more efficient in my book. One of the reasons for going VAG rather than BMW would be smaller more efficient engines but in my experience you simply don’t get any benefit of a highly strung 4 cyl turbo v a bigger 6 cyl. Had a good chat about prices, not huge discounts available though – around £2k of support and maybe £750 discount so its still well into the mid £30’s for a reasonable spec car..
330D X drive – the “sleeper” in this list really. Not the same kind of sling it around car, as the X drive has the softer suspension because there isn’t room for it with X drive. Take note anyone who thinks a 330D M sport X drive has M sport suspension, it doesn’t, it has the softer standard ride and you can feel it. If I was pondering a 330d X drive, and I am, it made me think hmm should I lose the 4 wd, save some money and have the sportier ride. BMW diesel engines – where to start, what a stunning powertrain with the 8 speed auto. Caned it on the same route and got 41 MPG !! It’s a brilliant, comfortable all round package and fast enough to eat most things on the straights at least. Lots of space, very practical and the economy is appealing even though the engine sounds fab for a diesel. Throw in the amazing deals on outgoing cars – as mentioned I have some options on fully loaded cars at £10k off list price and its very appealing..
My verdict
Hmm this is tricky because everyone has different needs and I don’t want to offend anyone. Firstly they are all great cars in their own, if slightly different way.. I guess I am looking for a daily driver to tick all the boxes so don’t be offended if you have a different view. I have hopefully given a very unbiased opinion of all the cars, but my verdict for my need is –
Top of my list and still can’t separate them – Audi S3 and BMW 330D. The best interiors, great drivetrains, nice infotainment. BMW counters the S3 strong residuals with better kit and discount. Both play the refined card one day, fun the next better than anything else here.
Next – GTI PP appeals the most – really good value for money, great everyday drive, I prefer the looks to the R, going to be cheaper to run than anything else here, although the GFV worries me and I don’t like the 30% max deposit rule. Felt quicker than a 6.4 sec 0-60 as well.
4th – M235 – A lot of compromises but feels expensive, goes like hell, lovely sound, fairly practical for a 2 door. Prob a better used buy 1-2 years old or when better discounts come.
5th – Golf R – Apols to the guys who have one – I can see the appeal for the performance, but it’s too like any other golf for me and the 0-60 bar room discussions don’t worry me in the real world – M235 feels and sounds much more expensive, S3 is a much nicer place to be and worth the extra £ and the GTi looks better (in my view) and is a lot cheaper. I know why VW have made this car and it is a great drive, really fun, but I would want something that felt more expensive at £30k+ and was more differentiated. The interior spec sheet stinks of profiteering to me (not so the GTi PP) because of the options I would want (need) to add to give it a premium feel. If you got a cheap lease deal then good effort – I wouldn’t put my own money into one though I think it will lose too much over 3-5 years. Would be a great used buy in 3 years though I reckon.
6th - RS3 – So much promise on paper, but let me down after driving the S3 before it. S3 offers most of the fun, more subtle looks and much lower costs. Money no object would love one in the garage. Most amazing brakes I ever tried on a car and would probably shake off most supercars point to point. Danger is speccing it up enough and would be knocking on £50k. Stunning piece of quality engineering though.
There you have it. Only my view, sorry for the long write up and no offence to anyone with any of the above cars, they all make a case for themselves. The experience also converted me to DSG / Auto boxes in this kind of car. I honestly can’t decide yet but I am torn between and S3 and 330d, then in the background the GTi PP is still winking at me saying “I’m a bargain” !! A lot will come down to the deals now I think, should have some figures on the S3 tomorrow – the appeal there is 50% deposit, £100 a month then pay the balance in 24 months. 330D can’t be ignored though due to straight line performance / refinement / interior quality / tech.
One final thing - if you are going to be testing cars like this, def drive them same day, same route back to back and you can also really compare specs so much better.
Cheers guys, great forum !
