GTD Wheel hop/tramping testing

[205Rallee]

Interesting thread but.... I've done 15k miles on S001's and 6k miles on PS3's and only ever had tramping once on the Bridgestones. I live in Cumbria so there is plenty of opportunity to get a shift on as the traffic levels are pretty low. Getting to the point, I can't see what all the fuss is about, the best traction control is the driver, you can choose the gear, the throttle opening, steering angle etc much better than an ECU.

If you floor it everywhere and expect the car to cope with it then you'll get spin and tramp. Simples.

[monkeyhanger]

But why should you have to pull away at a relative crawl to ensure you get away from a roundabout? Knowing that better rubber available at the same price-point will allow you to pull away from a standstill with a lot more vigour makes me think VW could have done better for their performance models. Only being able to confidently use 1/3 of the throttle to get moving when there's a gap on a busy roundabout is not why I expected with my GTD, especially when my previous car (Scirocco 170TDI) didn't tramp at all.

[caprigreen]

Interesting thread but.... I've done 15k miles on S001's and 6k miles on PS3's and only ever had tramping once on the Bridgestones. I live in Cumbria so there is plenty of opportunity to get a shift on as the traffic levels are pretty low. Getting to the point, I can't see what all the fuss is about, the best traction control is the driver, you can choose the gear, the throttle opening, steering angle etc much better than an ECU.

If you floor it everywhere and expect the car to cope with it then you'll get spin and tramp. Simples.

Could not agree more, I work in Road Safety for the Fire service most accidents are down to excessive speed

[monkeyhanger]

Interesting thread but.... I've done 15k miles on S001's and 6k miles on PS3's and only ever had tramping once on the Bridgestones. I live in Cumbria so there is plenty of opportunity to get a shift on as the traffic levels are pretty low. Getting to the point, I can't see what all the fuss is about, the best traction control is the driver, you can choose the gear, the throttle opening, steering angle etc much better than an ECU.

If you floor it everywhere and expect the car to cope with it then you'll get spin and tramp. Simples.

Could not agree more, I work in Road Safety for the Fire service most accidents are down to excessive speed

Excessive speed from pulling away from a static start? How soon do you think you'll be at "excessive speed"? It's more unsafe to give you a car with slippery Bridgestones that might allow you to get your nose out on a roundabout and potentially leave you floundering there tramping while that gap you had to go closes as the next car coming round finds you in their path not moving very quickly at all.

[caprigreen]

Interesting thread but.... I've done 15k miles on S001's and 6k miles on PS3's and only ever had tramping once on the Bridgestones. I live in Cumbria so there is plenty of opportunity to get a shift on as the traffic levels are pretty low. Getting to the point, I can't see what all the fuss is about, the best traction control is the driver, you can choose the gear, the throttle opening, steering angle etc much better than an ECU.

If you floor it everywhere and expect the car to cope with it then you'll get spin and tramp. Simples.

Could not agree more, I work in Road Safety for the Fire service most accidents are down to excessive speed

Excessive speed from pulling away from a static start? How soon do you think you'll be at "excessive speed"? It's more unsafe to give you a car with slippery Bridgestones that might allow you to get your nose out on a roundabout and potentially leave you floundering there tramping while that gap you had to go closes as the next car coming round finds you in their path not moving very quickly at all.

easy tiger 

[monkeyhanger]

VW should be putting rubber on the car that's appropriate to the car, if you buy a performance car you expect cars that will allow it to perform well. You don't have to be driving like a nutter for Bridgestones to let you down often, you probably have to be driving like a nun all the time for them not to.

I don't think it's coincidence that when you see nearly new Prets/Cadiz/Nogaros etc on ebay.de (presumably they're going for something aftermarket like Oz etc), they are not coming on Bridgestone rubber, they're coming on Michelins and Continentals. Most would deduce that for their domestic market, VW fit better tyres than we in the UK get dealt, perhaps down to our complacent "it'll have to do" attitude and reluctance to complain.

I see the complaint culture of the world on a daily basis in my job, dealing with technical complaints for a large pharmaceutical company. The Fins and the Germans demand perfection (a crease in a carton that hold their tablets will not be tolerated), our complaints per million packs figure is about 5x higher for Germany than it is for the UK.

If we are prepared to sit back and accept sh!te tyres that hamper the potential of the product to the point of frequent frustration behind the wheel, just to save VW probably a Euro per tyre, then VW will deliver. Crap tyres and crap wiper blades, should we really be needing to immediately spend money to make a £25-30k car what it should have been in the first place?

[mcmaddy]

Well said Matt.

[corgi]

It is not really a "performance car"... more a warm hatch. It is quite badly compromised from a performance perspective by being front wheel drive. That in combination with significant torque will mean that wheelspin is likely at wide throttle openings at low speed.

Now the tramping issue. I'd never had tramping (the original fronts were Contis, replaced by PS3s). Today, in the interests of science , I left a gap in a queue on the M6 and nailed it from a standing start... The much vaunted PS3s tramped  . Admittedly, I was fairly brutal... so is it a tyre issue? Partly. Is it a suspension design/construction issue? Partly. Is it a road surface issue? Partly. Is it a temperature issue? Partly.

I feel that with the Bridgestones,  there is an issue that is not solely down to the tyres but a combination of factors...

We've agreed the Bridgestone tyres aren't great.

Have you tried reducing the tyre pressures a little to see if that helps? With the stiff sidewall - which I think along with the compound is the issue here - running them at the same pressure as the much softer sidewalled PS3 (or whatever) would seem illogical. Reducing the tyre pressure will allow more sidewall flex, generate more heat as well as increasing the contact patch slightly.

I'm not suggesting much, no more than perhaps 3-4 lbs/sq inch...

[Jackie Treehorn]

But why should you have to pull away at a relative crawl to ensure you get away from a roundabout? Knowing that better rubber available at the same price-point will allow you to pull away from a standstill with a lot more vigour makes me think VW could have done better for their performance models. Only being able to confidently use 1/3 of the throttle to get moving when there's a gap on a busy roundabout is not why I expected with my GTD, especially when my previous car (Scirocco 170TDI) didn't tramp at all.

VW should be putting rubber on the car that's appropriate to the car, if you buy a performance car you expect cars that will allow it to perform well. You don't have to be driving like a nutter for Bridgestones to let you down often, you probably have to be driving like a nun all the time for them not to.

I don't think it's coincidence that when you see nearly new Prets/Cadiz/Nogaros etc on ebay.de (presumably they're going for something aftermarket like Oz etc), they are not coming on Bridgestone rubber, they're coming on Michelins and Continentals. Most would deduce that for their domestic market, VW fit better tyres than we in the UK get dealt, perhaps down to our complacent "it'll have to do" attitude and reluctance to complain.

I see the complaint culture of the world on a daily basis in my job, dealing with technical complaints for a large pharmaceutical company. The Fins and the Germans demand perfection (a crease in a carton that hold their tablets will not be tolerated), our complaints per million packs figure is about 5x higher for Germany than it is for the UK.

If we are prepared to sit back and accept sh!te tyres that hamper the potential of the product to the point of frequent frustration behind the wheel, just to save VW probably a Euro per tyre, then VW will deliver. Crap tyres and crap wiper blades, should we really be needing to immediately spend money to make a £25-30k car what it should have been in the first place?

Jesus,

I hope you get something other than Bridgestone on your new car and give us all some peace...

[fredgroves]

Have you tried reducing the tyre pressures a little to see if that helps?

If nothing else, it will wear the buggers out quicker