Does a Auto box ruin a hot hatch?

[MaccaGTD]

VAG manual boxes are exceptionally slick and good, far far superior to the stone age feeling units in a ford or vauxhall - hirecar experience waiting for the GTD!

I actually hate driving a manual now though, the DSG is that good its a must me. Suits from cruising to country lane hooning. Usual DSG Sport mode S1-S6 etc is crap though, not for the rally driver. Gear changes can be all over, if your going fast and going through tight bits, it can change gear mid corner, or have the wrong gear lined up and have a slight hesitation, enough to put you off a DSG. That situation its got to be the paddles plus you can be better placed in the power / torque bands.

Try using the paddles pulling fast out of a tight junction though as it disappears around the steering wheel from your grasp lol.

[fredgroves]

The only thing I'd say against DSG on the Mk7 is that it takes it up one VED band vs manual - perhaps only a small problem for private owners, but a big consideration for company car drivers.

Other than that, I'd have probably spec'ed it.

[charv94]

In my opinion, there will become a point when the auto box does take over, they will become slicker, more efficient and provide more than a 0.1 second to 60 gain. In high end cars i completely agree, if you're trying to race to 60 in 3 seconds you don't have a chance to change gear so the auto box needs to take car of that.

However, theres something special in shoving it into second and just gassing it all the way to the red line before changing, being in total control of the gears is not something that an auto box with paddles lets you do. It does, regardless of what anyone says remove involvement too, pulling a paddle on the wheel compared to the process of changing a gear manually is less engaging. and in a hot hatch, is that not what they are about, powerful and a drivers car to the masses?

[JBirchy]

In my opinion, there will become a point when the auto box does take over, they will become slicker, more efficient and provide more than a 0.1 second to 60 gain. In high end cars i completely agree, if you're trying to race to 60 in 3 seconds you don't have a chance to change gear so the auto box needs to take car of that.

However, theres something special in shoving it into second and just gassing it all the way to the red line before changing, being in total control of the gears is not something that an auto box with paddles lets you do. It does, regardless of what anyone says remove involvement too, pulling a paddle on the wheel compared to the process of changing a gear manually is less engaging. and in a hot hatch, is that not what they are about, powerful and a drivers car to the masses?

Yes, but also with the added practicality of some economy and practicality thrown in. A car to be used every day but one that will offer the driver a bit of a thrill when hooning down a good road.

That added practicality is where the auto box scores IMO. It's just so good with the updated software it doesn't detract from the experience and for long journeys/commutes/driving in town/traffic its tremendous.

When you're on it, no it won't let you bounce off the limiter like a manual but it will rev out completely and only change up when it hits the red line. The revised software also allows multiple downshifts and has never once shifted when I haven't expected it to. The only time I've cocked it up is when I've let it run into the limiter so it changes up, and I've pulled the paddle at the same time meaning it shifts up 2 gears instead of one, but that's as much driver error, nothing wrong with the box.

If I was buying the car as a second car and only did a couple of thousand miles a year, then without question I would have a manual. However for every day driving, DSG all the way for me.

[monkeyhanger]

For every plus point there's a negative, some will forgive the DSG some of it's foibles, others will be annoyed by them (like me  . I wouldn't consider economy differences, there's 2% in it on paper, and they're in the same taxation band. I'd also suggest that if you are in an economical mood, you could do better manually than the DSG can manage, it upshifts way too early when trying to be as economical as possible. Changing up on me when I was just about to happened to me more than once, leaving me in a gear higher than I wanted. The car deciding to change on me in manual mode when I was nowhere near a red line also annoyed me greatly.

If you're stuck in gridlock crawling in 1st and 2nd most of your journey then DSG will make sense, but I do believe that more convenience means less engagement, not something I want less of in a hot hatch.

[isleaiw]

For every plus point there's a negative, some will forgive the DSG some of it's foibles, others will be annoyed by them (like me  . I wouldn't consider economy differences, there's 2% in it on paper, and they're in the same taxation band. I'd also suggest that if you are in an economical mood, you could do better manually than the DSG can manage, it upshifts way too early when trying to be as economical as possible. Changing up on me when I was just about to happened to me more than once, leaving me in a gear higher than I wanted. The car deciding to change on me in manual mode when I was nowhere near a red line also annoyed me greatly.

If you're stuck in gridlock crawling in 1st and 2nd most of your journey then DSG will make sense, but I do believe that more convenience means less engagement, not something I want less of in a hot hatch.

My E class estate is an auto, 7 speed with paddles that i never use. My wife's GTi is manual, and whilst I thought about getting her DSG, i just felt that when I drove the Golf I wanted to play with the gears so went manual. Dont regret it but do expect that in the next few years we will all be going to autos of one form or another.

Ian

[Mr Savage]

For every plus point there's a negative, some will forgive the DSG some of it's foibles, others will be annoyed by them (like me  . I wouldn't consider economy differences, there's 2% in it on paper, and they're in the same taxation band. I'd also suggest that if you are in an economical mood, you could do better manually than the DSG can manage, it upshifts way too early when trying to be as economical as possible. Changing up on me when I was just about to happened to me more than once, leaving me in a gear higher than I wanted. The car deciding to change on me in manual mode when I was nowhere near a red line also annoyed me greatly.

If you're stuck in gridlock crawling in 1st and 2nd most of your journey then DSG will make sense, but I do believe that more convenience means less engagement, not something I want less of in a hot hatch.

You couldn't have been in manual mode if it changed gear nowhere near the red line. You must have used a paddle which put it in temporary manual mode, if you don't change gears again for a while it will drop back into auto mode.

If you move the DSG lever across to the left it's in pure manual mode and will only downshift if you're coming to a stop in traffic and still in a high gear or if you're going past 7500RPM into the hard red line as a safety measure for the engine.

You can stay in 3rd at 6000RPM and it won't change up... It never changes itself unless you're doing something stupid in this mode.

[fredgroves]

When you start to see what some of the electronics on the Mk7 does today and then look at the next generation the new Passat has on it, you can see that to get the most out of all of them, it will need an auto box.

Already you miss some things out by having a manual - on DSG it will come down to a stop and pull away when under ACC... a manual doesn't.

The generation beyond the Passat will almost certainly start to offer even more automated drive modes, talking to other cars around it to receive intention data and possibly even communicating with traffic lights and other items on the road to slow down the vehicle as needed and avoid problems.

After years of the high-tech car being promised, we are seeing it come alive all of a sudden and DSG is just part of this.

I can see them not offering a manual gearbox in the coming years!

[wigit]

i went dsg on the R and i was a die hard manual fan, in reality the manual box i didn't feel was that great in the GTI i had on extended test, my Polo actually has a better manual box in terms of involvement

i think a lot considerations come into this decision and it took me about a month to get to grips with dsg and in reality i mainly use it in manual mode, i think 98% of the time now i love dsg and 2% of the time i would like a manual

this involvement thing is just rubbish, you become involved in a different way and with dsg i actually use the box more, yes there are some aspects of dsg that aren't perfect

biggest convert has been the wife who has gone dsg on her R

[corgi]

IMO, the biggest reason that modern cars feel numb has nothing to do with the gearbox.

It is the steering that's numb and lacking in feel... it is set up for the Playstation generation - that is my biggest bugbear with modern cars. My other car proves that with lovely steering, lots of feel...

As for gearboxes, I have a manual GTD - although it may be in the same tax bracket as the DSG it results in lower BIK with a company car... My g/f has a 320d M-Sport with the 8 Speed Sport Auto. I have driven DSG on a regular basis.

The manual gearbox on the Golf is adequate, reasonably slick shifting and light (it is not a patch on, for example, the Honda S2000, Caterham 7 etc.). DSG seems fine i about 80% of cases but as Monkeyhanger says when it annoys, it really annoys. If I want to be in third then it should stay in third not drop to second when I accelerate and want to use the torque of the engine rather than rev the nuts of it. The 8 Speed Sport Auto in the BMW is much better, it still has this annoyance but it is less often and as the 'box is much smoother shifting than DSG... it is less annoying...

So of all of those, I would take the 8 Speed Sport Auto every time..