Author Topic: Does stop start really save fuel or just cut down emissions?  (Read 6177 times)

Offline iandjm

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Hi,

I was wondering if people have any experience of running a GTI with and without stop/start?  Does the system really save fuel, or is it purely a way to to cut down the average emissions from the car (saving on car tax etc)
I cant help feeling constantly stopping and starting an engine for short periods must burn as much if not more fuel than keeping it idling, plus the wear and tear must increase a great deal.  Only my thoughts though.

Many thanks

Ian
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Offline dubber36

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Re: Does stop start really save fuel or just cut down emissions?
« Reply #1 on: 22 January 2014, 08:45 »
I'm sure it's only to reduce emissions during the controlled test procedure.

Living in the sticks, my car is never stationary long enough for the engine to stop without it being annoying.
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Offline JBirchy

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Re: Does stop start really save fuel or just cut down emissions?
« Reply #2 on: 22 January 2014, 09:08 »
I think it's purely emissions. The emissions test is carried out at very low revs and with some stop/starts on the engine (I think), so I don't think it will reduce the amount of fuel consumed. Unless you're sat still for a few minutes at a time.
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Offline GiT1984

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Re: Does stop start really save fuel or just cut down emissions?
« Reply #3 on: 22 January 2014, 09:11 »
Can't comment on the GTi - but I've tested it on my Diesel Audi and it saves around 10-12% in heavy traffic ....
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Offline iandjm

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Re: Does stop start really save fuel or just cut down emissions?
« Reply #4 on: 22 January 2014, 09:14 »
Can't comment on the GTi - but I've tested it on my Diesel Audi and it saves around 10-12% in heavy traffic ....

That is really impressive.  I guess I need to get over the fear of damaging the engine starting and stopping it every few seconds.  It would be better if it stopped after idling for say 10 seconds rather than straignt away.

Thanks

Ian
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Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: Does stop start really save fuel or just cut down emissions?
« Reply #5 on: 22 January 2014, 09:34 »
Depends how much you are static on your commute. For the EU testing cycle, the car spends 24% of its time at standstill.

I’m assuming that a GTD uses a litre of diesel an hour on idle - this seemed to be approximately right when my Scirocco 170TDI took 4 hours driving to do what is normally a 20 minute trip during the great Newcastle floods of July 2012 (I averaged 11mpg for the 12 mile journey, and I was switching the engine off when it was clear I wouldn’t be moving for more than 30 seconds).

The new “miracle” official mpg figures are based on the inclusion of stop-start tech. Take my old Scirocco 170TDI manual (presumably very close to a MK6 GTD, for which I do not have the figures), officially 53.3mpg on the combined cycle with no stop-start tech, and compare it to a MK7 GTD at 67.3mpg. for 24% of the testing cycle, the Scirocco is idling and the GTD has its engine off. The Scirocco uses 21% more fuel for the fact of having been idling for 24% of the test. Not all of those official gains are down to stop-start tech, but I would say a good 2/3 of it is. Brake regeneration plays a small part, weight savings are negligible as me opting for 5 door made the car heavier than a 3 door MK6/Scirocco.

In the real world, I estimate that I am stopped for a total of 90 seconds (6%) of my 25 minute journey. In that 90 seconds I probably make use of stop-start twice. If I’m going to be stopped at lights etc for more than 20 seconds I’ll let the car switch off, if not I will keep the clutch pedal dipped to keep the engine on. So the inclusion of stop-start affects about 3% of my journey (as for half my stoppages I do not let it switch the engine off). I read somewhere that unless your stoppage is greater than 20s then there are no stop-start savings in switching off.

There is nowt between my GTD and Scirocco in the winter, on my commute, and for saving fuel by switching the engine off on 3% of my journey when idling uses maybe 20% of the fuel in any given time that averaging 45mpg at an average speed of 45mph does. The impact of stop/start inclusion for me is saving 20% of 3%, or 0.6% on my fuel bill. This is the real reason there is almost no fuel saving between the “20% more efficient” GTD and my Scirocco.

I do wonder how many starter motors will have to be replaced prematurely on these stop-start equipped cars compared to old tech. Have car companies considered this and made them to last longer as a result? Doubt it – plenty of starter motors will be knackered at 50k miles I reckon. Admittedly it is the first cold start that puts the most strain on that starter motor, but even estimating that a warm start takes half the effort of a cold start, my starter motor is working twice as hard per commute with 2 stop-starts than none.
« Last Edit: 22 January 2014, 09:39 by monkeyhanger »
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Offline iandjm

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Re: Does stop start really save fuel or just cut down emissions?
« Reply #6 on: 22 January 2014, 09:43 »
Thanks monkeyhanger.  I have a DSG which sadly means it stops the engine every time I stop, unless I deactivate the system.

I still think it would be better if it stopped after so many seconds of idling, rather than straight away  :huh:

Ian
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Offline dubber36

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Re: Does stop start really save fuel or just cut down emissions?
« Reply #7 on: 22 January 2014, 09:49 »
I have a DSG which sadly means it stops the engine every time I stop, unless I deactivate the system.


If you come to a stop with less brake pressure, then come off the brake pedal and let the Auto hold, err, hold you, it should not turn off. That's how I get round it in my Passat anyway.

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Offline iandjm

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Re: Does stop start really save fuel or just cut down emissions?
« Reply #8 on: 22 January 2014, 09:54 »
I have a DSG which sadly means it stops the engine every time I stop, unless I deactivate the system.


If you come to a stop with less brake pressure, then come off the brake pedal and let the Auto hold, err, hold you, it should not turn off. That's how I get round it in my Passat anyway.

The golf wont let you get away with that, will try again later though 
« Last Edit: 22 January 2014, 09:57 by iandjm »
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Offline jivemonkey

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Re: Does stop start really save fuel or just cut down emissions?
« Reply #9 on: 22 January 2014, 09:56 »
I have a DSG which sadly means it stops the engine every time I stop, unless I deactivate the system.


If you come to a stop with less brake pressure, then come off the brake pedal and let the Auto hold, err, hold you, it should not turn off. That's how I get round it in my Passat anyway.

The golf wont let you get away with that  :angry:

I do this all the time, it's only prolonged pressure on the pedal which causes the start/ stop. As soon as you see the green autohold light on the dash, remove your foot and she'll happily keep ticking over.
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