Author Topic: MK7 GTI now feels like a GTI (DTE Systems Pedal Box)  (Read 18913 times)

Offline Exonian

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MK7 GTI now feels like a GTI (DTE Systems Pedal Box)
« on: 01 December 2013, 12:30 »
First things first, if you're 100% happy with the way your mk7 drives or are completely against modifying your vehicle from standard spec (both 100% understandable) then move on to the next thread now, it's pointless for you to read on.


And if you're easily bored then skip this bit too!

Those that have been paying attention will note that the only real complaint I have with my mk7 is basically the same complaint I had with the mk5 and then the mk6 GTIs in that the accelerator pedal needs a ridiculous amount of travel before it does anything.
Now, I can understand why this is but I don't like it.

It's not just the GTI either, nearly all modern cars and vans seem to have the same issue.
Casting my memory back to cars like the Polo GTI 1.8T and the Lupo GTI, half of the fun and enjoyment of these cars were their responses to driver input. VW even made light of it with the Polo GTI in their TV adverts.

You don't need 1000 bhp to have lots of fun in a car, you just need a car to work with you. The 205 GTI wasn't masses faster than a mk2 Golf GTI back in the day but it certainly felt it because the accelerator had a hair trigger effect and despite the Golf GTI being more tractable engine wise (and it didn't stall at every junction like the 205 used to as they liked to cut out) the 205 was leagues better as a cross country car. Unfortunately the Golf GTI was just a much better car full stop when you stripped it all away and I've had at least four mk2 GTIs but only one 205 GTI many years ago which I only kept a short time. That doesn't escape the fact that the 205 was more fun to drive.

Now, when I saw the initial launch of the mk7 GTI my ears pricked up and I took sudden interest as it promised much on paper - the VAQ diff was what everyone with a remapped GTI had been waiting for (the ability to put 300 lb ft down without masses of wheelspin), the option of factory bigger brakes, and to me the fact it had as much torque as a mk6 GTD as standard was a huge appeal; finally a GTI that shouldn't be crying out for a remap to make it more fun to drive…

So, I guess wisely, VW have carefully mapped the mk7 GTI so that although it has 258 lb ft of torque at very low RPMs it doesn't unleash hell when pulling out of a junction a bit briskly and in fact it still feels as flat at times as a mk6 GTI that had much less torque. So basically the same complaint I've seen from BMW 135i drivers which have even more torque again - it's quick, very quick, but just doesn't feel it.

I've had 'quite a bit' of experience of remaps and have spoken to tuners and asked them why, even once remapped, a mk5 or mk6 still has a pretty rubbish throttle pedal response and their replies have been the same; it's just the way the accelerator pedal is programmed to work with the fly by wire throttle system.

I used a Sprint Booster on my mk6 and it made a world of difference, it doesn't give the car any extra power or torque but it makes the throttle pedal more akin to a k-jet mk1 or mk2 GTI in response on a medium setting and like a 205 GTI on the max setting. In other words it makes it FUN!!! Which to me is what a GTI is all about. I don't give a toss what the top speed is or how quick it books at 0-62 mph because I don't drive like a loon. But I do like the car to respond with minimal inputs so it actually feels connected to me and as the mk7 has super sharp steering and hardly a hint of understeer with very good brakes it just makes it a crying shame that the engine controls feel like they belong in a ship.

My answer with the mk7 was to contact Andrew at DTUK and at super rapid speed a PedalBox was sent to me which has indeed made the throttle response super rapid too now and finally my GTI actually feels like it has a GTI engine in it and I've only used part throttle and fairly low RPMs so far too. The car hasn't been driven particularly quickly but it does actually feel alive now.

The PedalBox feels fairly substantial and has a lot more programs than the previously used Sprint Booster and does feel a bit better value for money just on its construction alone.
It takes about ten mins to fit absolute maximum.
One torx bolt to undo, a trim panel to drop, one plug to unplug and two to plug in, a cable to route into the little side cubby hole next to the drivers right knee and job done.

I did attempt some photos but they came out pretty rubbish so I may have another go at them in decent light not using my phone, so apologies there. There's nothing on view once it's fitted anyway if you so desire with a stealth application.

Money well spent? Yep, for sure
‘23 8R, ‘20 8CS, ‘19 135iX, ‘19 TCR, ‘17 Ed40, ‘17 GTD, ‘15 7R, ‘13 GTI PP, ‘11 GTI, ‘09 GTI, ‘98 Ibiza Cupra, ‘05 GTI, ‘06 Polo GTI, ‘04 GT TDI, ‘05 Fabia vRS, ‘02 GTI T, ‘03 Ibiza TDI 130, ‘01 Leon 180, ‘89 mk2 16v, ‘99 Ibiza TDI, ‘96 VR6, ‘98 Ibiza TDI, ‘92 VR6, ‘88 mk2 8v, ‘92 Polo G40, ‘91 mk2 8v, ‘89 mk2 8v, 205 GTI 1.9, ‘83 mk1 GTI, ‘80 Scirocco GTI, plus some others I’ve forgotten 

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: MK7 GTI now feels like a GTI (DTE Systems Pedal Box)
« Reply #1 on: 01 December 2013, 12:44 »
So what's the gen with these pedal boxes? The whole response of the normal full pedal travel in about 1/2 of the travel (once revised), with the 2nd half doing nowt? Distortion of the lower end of the travel like 1/2 normal travel squeezed into the 1st 1/4 travel once modified and the other 1/2 of the whole travel response stretched across the remaining 3/4 of travel once modified?

Have I got it right there, or is there more to it than that?

Maybe VW thinks it feels sportier to have to mash the pedal to get the full potential out.
Whey ya bugger! It's finally arrived after an 8 month wait....
MK7 R 5 door, manual, Lapiz Blue, Prets.

Offline Exonian

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Re: MK7 GTI now feels like a GTI (DTE Systems Pedal Box)
« Reply #2 on: 01 December 2013, 12:54 »
It's basically a sort of amplifier. There are quite a few settings on the box and I've never in the 4 years I've owned one of these type devices ever felt the need to mash the pedal to the carpet afterwards to see what happens as it's just not necessary.
‘23 8R, ‘20 8CS, ‘19 135iX, ‘19 TCR, ‘17 Ed40, ‘17 GTD, ‘15 7R, ‘13 GTI PP, ‘11 GTI, ‘09 GTI, ‘98 Ibiza Cupra, ‘05 GTI, ‘06 Polo GTI, ‘04 GT TDI, ‘05 Fabia vRS, ‘02 GTI T, ‘03 Ibiza TDI 130, ‘01 Leon 180, ‘89 mk2 16v, ‘99 Ibiza TDI, ‘96 VR6, ‘98 Ibiza TDI, ‘92 VR6, ‘88 mk2 8v, ‘92 Polo G40, ‘91 mk2 8v, ‘89 mk2 8v, 205 GTI 1.9, ‘83 mk1 GTI, ‘80 Scirocco GTI, plus some others I’ve forgotten 

Offline GrahamFR

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Re: MK7 GTI now feels like a GTI (DTE Systems Pedal Box)
« Reply #3 on: 01 December 2013, 20:43 »
It's basically a sort of amplifier. There are quite a few settings on the box and I've never in the 4 years I've owned one of these type devices ever felt the need to mash the pedal to the carpet afterwards to see what happens as it's just not necessary.

No you don't have to mash the pedal because it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference, technically you're already got your foot down before you're even on the floor, you've got it spot on monkeyhanger and some people may like this but basically what your doing is just losing the ability to have a greater amount of control. My experience with this pedal box is admittedly from mapped tdis so it's going to be a different feel with a petrol, when and if my Gti arrives I get my box back out of the garage and give it another chance, we shall see I may eat my words you never know.
2007: Leon PD170
2010: Leon CR170
2013: Golf GTI PP
2016: A45 AMG

Offline Black oil

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Re: MK7 GTI now feels like a GTI (DTE Systems Pedal Box)
« Reply #4 on: 01 December 2013, 20:55 »
I suspect it's the box fooling the the foot into fooling the brain there is more power than there actually is.
I would get used too and bored of it quite quickly I think.
Mk7 Gti.5dr.Deep black pearl,PP,acc,nav pro,pano roof,leather,winter pack,dynaudio.Rather nice.

Offline Exonian

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Re: MK7 GTI now feels like a GTI (DTE Systems Pedal Box)
« Reply #5 on: 01 December 2013, 21:10 »
I suspect it's the box fooling the the foot into fooling the brain there is more power than there actually is.
I would get used too and bored of it quite quickly I think.

It's got nothing to do with extra power, it's taking the lag out of the system. Read post #1
Accessibility & ease of driving not trickery.
If you've ever driven a sporty carbureted car or one with mechanical fuel injection you'll understand.
"Response" is the keyword.
Depends on your driving style I guess.
‘23 8R, ‘20 8CS, ‘19 135iX, ‘19 TCR, ‘17 Ed40, ‘17 GTD, ‘15 7R, ‘13 GTI PP, ‘11 GTI, ‘09 GTI, ‘98 Ibiza Cupra, ‘05 GTI, ‘06 Polo GTI, ‘04 GT TDI, ‘05 Fabia vRS, ‘02 GTI T, ‘03 Ibiza TDI 130, ‘01 Leon 180, ‘89 mk2 16v, ‘99 Ibiza TDI, ‘96 VR6, ‘98 Ibiza TDI, ‘92 VR6, ‘88 mk2 8v, ‘92 Polo G40, ‘91 mk2 8v, ‘89 mk2 8v, 205 GTI 1.9, ‘83 mk1 GTI, ‘80 Scirocco GTI, plus some others I’ve forgotten 

Offline Johnc41

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Re: MK7 GTI now feels like a GTI (DTE Systems Pedal Box)
« Reply #6 on: 01 December 2013, 21:40 »
I suspect it's the box fooling the the foot into fooling the brain there is more power than there actually is.
I would get used too and bored of it quite quickly I think.

It's got nothing to do with extra power, it's taking the lag out of the system. Read post #1
Accessibility & ease of driving not trickery.
If you've ever driven a sporty carbureted car or one with mechanical fuel injection you'll understand.
"Response" is the keyword.
Depends on your driving style I guess.


Yes must be as I have a tuning box for gti and feels super fast when moving off and never need to put my foot down hardly at all.

Offline Exonian

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Re: MK7 GTI now feels like a GTI (DTE Systems Pedal Box)
« Reply #7 on: 01 December 2013, 21:52 »
I suspect it's the box fooling the the foot into fooling the brain there is more power than there actually is.
I would get used too and bored of it quite quickly I think.

It's got nothing to do with extra power, it's taking the lag out of the system. Read post #1
Accessibility & ease of driving not trickery.
If you've ever driven a sporty carbureted car or one with mechanical fuel injection you'll understand.
"Response" is the keyword.
Depends on your driving style I guess.


Yes must be as I have a tuning box for gti and feels super fast when moving off and never need to put my foot down hardly at all.

I had a few TDI's many years ago with tuning boxes (amongst other mods) and I agree, they do alter the accelerator response more than a remap. One that I had about 13 years ago almost had turbo lag in reverse! You only had to breathe and the car surged forward!!! Keeping a steady speed was just not going to happen on that car on a motorway!
‘23 8R, ‘20 8CS, ‘19 135iX, ‘19 TCR, ‘17 Ed40, ‘17 GTD, ‘15 7R, ‘13 GTI PP, ‘11 GTI, ‘09 GTI, ‘98 Ibiza Cupra, ‘05 GTI, ‘06 Polo GTI, ‘04 GT TDI, ‘05 Fabia vRS, ‘02 GTI T, ‘03 Ibiza TDI 130, ‘01 Leon 180, ‘89 mk2 16v, ‘99 Ibiza TDI, ‘96 VR6, ‘98 Ibiza TDI, ‘92 VR6, ‘88 mk2 8v, ‘92 Polo G40, ‘91 mk2 8v, ‘89 mk2 8v, 205 GTI 1.9, ‘83 mk1 GTI, ‘80 Scirocco GTI, plus some others I’ve forgotten 

Offline Snoopy

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Re: MK7 GTI now feels like a GTI (DTE Systems Pedal Box)
« Reply #8 on: 01 December 2013, 23:23 »
http://www.pedal-box.co.uk/

Lots of info about the system available from Andrew on that link.

In laymans terms it reshapes the responce graph of the throttle pedal.


Monkeyhanger
If your interested why not give Andrew a ring to make an appointment to pop over and try a car with the system on as they are in Tanfield, Stanley, co. Durham not far from you.
« Last Edit: 01 December 2013, 23:29 by Snoopy »
Mk6 GTI  &  Mk1 GTI 
34 years of GTI ownership.

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: MK7 GTI now feels like a GTI (DTE Systems Pedal Box)
« Reply #9 on: 02 December 2013, 08:07 »
Snoopy: I think if I was going to do anything with the car i'd rather have more power via a tuning box than a pedal box that completely alters the pedal response but gives no more power (I don't mind hitting the throttle a little harder when I want the car to do more). I would imagine that it is working similarly to the pedal respose engancement you see in Sport or normal vs Eco (which is completely lifeless and pretty useless as a setting as it does almost nothing to give more economy and can in fact be counteractive to good mpg when the lack of response frustrates).

I think i've committed myself to a year of mod-free driving after taking up a year's insurance with esure last week. They are not in the slightest bit mod friendly.

My car has taken on a different personality since it hit 1900 miles/3000Km. It's about 5% more frugal overall and has a lot more go in it too. It's starting to feel like it might actually have at least 184PS under the bonnet, really surprised by the step up in power at a milestone mileage - almost as if VW have the ECU on a long term running in program.

I was considering a DTUK box at one point to get the car up to where I felt it should have already been (feeling weaker than my previous Scirocco 170TDI), but it has started living up to expectations - hopefully it has even more to give by way of ongoing improvement.
Whey ya bugger! It's finally arrived after an 8 month wait....
MK7 R 5 door, manual, Lapiz Blue, Prets.