Author Topic: Engine sweet spot  (Read 7471 times)

Offline Hawaii-Five-O

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Engine sweet spot
« on: 12 November 2013, 21:53 »
Now we've had our toys a few weeks just wondering where you think the GTI's engine sweet spot is?

The reason I ask is that I was expecting the sweet spot to be much lower down the rev range... because of the increased torque levels on this new engine.

However, what I'm finding is that the sweet spot is somewhere around the 4,500-6,000 rpm range. This is a surprise given the new torque reserves on tap. I guess I was expecting a more diesel like experience (with it having 258 lbs.ft) and for it to pull strongly in a high gear from around 30-50 mph. It doesn't really do this. Not saying this is bad - just a little surprising.

How have you found it?
Current: BMW M140i / ZF8 / 5 DR
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Offline Exonian

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Re: Engine sweet spot
« Reply #1 on: 13 November 2013, 05:04 »
I've been thinking exactly the same thing.
Just hit the massive mileage of 300 and it still feels very tight and I think I'm still taking it very easy keeping the throttle and revs down but varying speeds as much as possible.

With 258 lb ft at low RPMs it should pull like a Diesel but it doesn't. Obviously the mapping and response has been diluted too much so the emissions are kept low and maybe to assist traction for people that can't drive considering the effort it takes to get the accelerator pedal fully down.
A Sprint Booster type device is a must for me on this car and as soon as I'm not completely skint (after buying the darned thing) that will be my first port of call to see if that wakes it up a bit. I'm not after a rocket ship at such low miles, just an accelerator that makes the thing drive like a GTI of yore (Andrew at DTUK will do a forum price on his version).
The 258 lb ft are evident at mid range RPMs as the car gathers speed ok but just doesn't feel at all rapid doing it admittedly not mashing the accelerator but then again, that shouldn't be necessary with this amount of power.
I also find it not very tractable creeping forward in second gear in traffic or long driveways. I have to use first which shouldn't be necessary in my opinion.
Additionally I find the car Diesel like in being very sluggish until warmed up. I'm very sympathetic to mechanical things and always carefully warm my cars up but the responses really are sluggish when cold.

Steering, brakes, suspension and interior really impress but the engine less so despite being the most powerful non K04 GTI ever and certainly the most torquey.


It has to be the mapping as I did loads of miles in various PD170 TDI's and a good few in CR170 GTDs and both of those had excellent responses despite their similarly dull throttle pedal action and the common factor there is the 258 lb ft at low RPMs!!!

‘23 8R, ‘20 8CS, ‘19 135iX, ‘19 TCR, ‘17 Ed40, ‘17 GTD, ‘15 7R, ‘13 GTI PP, ‘11 GTI, ‘09 GTI, ‘98 Ibiza Cupra, ‘05 GTI, ‘06 Polo GTI, ‘04 GT TDI, ‘05 Fabia vRS, ‘02 GTI T, ‘03 Ibiza TDI 130, ‘01 Leon 180, ‘89 mk2 16v, ‘99 Ibiza TDI, ‘96 VR6, ‘98 Ibiza TDI, ‘92 VR6, ‘88 mk2 8v, ‘92 Polo G40, ‘91 mk2 8v, ‘89 mk2 8v, 205 GTI 1.9, ‘83 mk1 GTI, ‘80 Scirocco GTI, plus some others I’ve forgotten 

Offline 2014GTi

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Re: Engine sweet spot
« Reply #2 on: 13 November 2013, 07:50 »
I think your engines just need running it.
Full 350nm torque is available as follows:-
1500-4400rpms on standard GTi
1500-4600rpms on Performace GTi

Full horsepower as follows:-
220ps 4500-6200rpms
230ps 4700-6200rpms

:)
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2011 Volkswagen Polo Bluemotion
2001 SEAT Arosa TDi S
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2005 Vauxhall Astra SRI CDTi
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1999 Peugeot 206 Grand Tourisme

Offline matchboy

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Re: Engine sweet spot
« Reply #3 on: 13 November 2013, 09:51 »
I've found the same, it really kicks in at around 4-4500 revs - and keeps going  :evil:
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Previous: Mk 3 Audi TTS, Porsche 981 Cayman S, Mk 7 Golf R, Mk 7 GTI, Mk 6 GTI, Mk 5 GTI and so on....

Offline Hawaii-Five-O

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Re: Engine sweet spot
« Reply #4 on: 13 November 2013, 11:07 »
@Exonian @ 2013GTi

Maybe we need to wait until our engines have fully run in before this premature critique. These are only my initial observations.

On the commute home last night I couldn't help myself giving the thing a quick blast. That's when I felt the power come on song at around 4,500 rpm. Felt good :evil: But still a surprise the increased torque isn't as evident lower down the rev range.
Current: BMW M140i / ZF8 / 5 DR
Past: MK7 GTI / DSG / WHITE / 5 DR

Offline monsta

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Re: Engine sweet spot
« Reply #5 on: 13 November 2013, 14:14 »
If this is the case then it's a little disappointing, the mk5 had torque all over the place which was something that made it a great all rounder.   

When I had a MINI Cooper you used to have to rev it up to 4,500 to get the most out of it which was a little annoying.

Looks like a re-map is going to be on the cards.

Offline lew321

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Re: Engine sweet spot
« Reply #6 on: 13 November 2013, 14:47 »
I've been thinking exactly the same thing.
Just hit the massive mileage of 300 and it still feels very tight and I think I'm still taking it very easy keeping the throttle and revs down but varying speeds as much as possible.

With 258 lb ft at low RPMs it should pull like a Diesel but it doesn't. Obviously the mapping and response has been diluted too much so the emissions are kept low and maybe to assist traction for people that can't drive considering the effort it takes to get the accelerator pedal fully down.
A Sprint Booster type device is a must for me on this car and as soon as I'm not completely skint (after buying the darned thing) that will be my first port of call to see if that wakes it up a bit. I'm not after a rocket ship at such low miles, just an accelerator that makes the thing drive like a GTI of yore (Andrew at DTUK will do a forum price on his version).
The 258 lb ft are evident at mid range RPMs as the car gathers speed ok but just doesn't feel at all rapid doing it admittedly not mashing the accelerator but then again, that shouldn't be necessary with this amount of power.
I also find it not very tractable creeping forward in second gear in traffic or long driveways. I have to use first which shouldn't be necessary in my opinion.
Additionally I find the car Diesel like in being very sluggish until warmed up. I'm very sympathetic to mechanical things and always carefully warm my cars up but the responses really are sluggish when cold.

Steering, brakes, suspension and interior really impress but the engine less so despite being the most powerful non K04 GTI ever and certainly the most torquey.

It has to be the mapping as I did loads of miles in various PD170 TDI's and a good few in CR170 GTDs and both of those had excellent responses despite their similarly dull throttle pedal action and the common factor there is the 258 lb ft at low RPMs!!!

I'm guessing a sprit booster is one of these, DTE Systems Maximum Response PEDAL BOX from DTUK.

Until I get my car and live with it I don't know how it will compare from my current GTD. I think coming from 170ps to 230ps should be enough for me. If not I might try one of these.

Has anyone had one before?
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Offline Mr Savage

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Re: Engine sweet spot
« Reply #7 on: 13 November 2013, 16:04 »
I find the GTI's power delivery to be really strange. You get some pull at around 3k RPM then at 4.5k you feel a lot more pull almost like the turbos suddenly decided to spool up.

To be perfectly honest i'm disappointed with the GTI's performance as it only seems to want to move at 3/4 throttle. It sounds fantastic but it just doesn't seem that exciting. I don't know if it's because of how safe it feels at high speeds or what but I was expecting more punch. Definitely getting a remap as soon as Revo or APR bring out a decent one.

I'm gonna write a full review later to say how I find the car after the initial excitement has gone down.
Current - MK7 Golf GTI - Tornado Red, 5 Door, DSG, Performance Pack, Dynamic Chasis Control, Panoramic Sunroof, Discover Navigation, Dynaudio.

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Offline Exonian

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Re: Engine sweet spot
« Reply #8 on: 13 November 2013, 16:28 »
I've been thinking exactly the same thing.
Just hit the massive mileage of 300 and it still feels very tight and I think I'm still taking it very easy keeping the throttle and revs down but varying speeds as much as possible.

With 258 lb ft at low RPMs it should pull like a Diesel but it doesn't. Obviously the mapping and response has been diluted too much so the emissions are kept low and maybe to assist traction for people that can't drive considering the effort it takes to get the accelerator pedal fully down.
A Sprint Booster type device is a must for me on this car and as soon as I'm not completely skint (after buying the darned thing) that will be my first port of call to see if that wakes it up a bit. I'm not after a rocket ship at such low miles, just an accelerator that makes the thing drive like a GTI of yore (Andrew at DTUK will do a forum price on his version).
The 258 lb ft are evident at mid range RPMs as the car gathers speed ok but just doesn't feel at all rapid doing it admittedly not mashing the accelerator but then again, that shouldn't be necessary with this amount of power.
I also find it not very tractable creeping forward in second gear in traffic or long driveways. I have to use first which shouldn't be necessary in my opinion.
Additionally I find the car Diesel like in being very sluggish until warmed up. I'm very sympathetic to mechanical things and always carefully warm my cars up but the responses really are sluggish when cold.

Steering, brakes, suspension and interior really impress but the engine less so despite being the most powerful non K04 GTI ever and certainly the most torquey.

It has to be the mapping as I did loads of miles in various PD170 TDI's and a good few in CR170 GTDs and both of those had excellent responses despite their similarly dull throttle pedal action and the common factor there is the 258 lb ft at low RPMs!!!

I'm guessing a sprit booster is one of these, DTE Systems Maximum Response PEDAL BOX from DTUK.

Until I get my car and live with it I don't know how it will compare from my current GTD. I think coming from 170ps to 230ps should be enough for me. If not I might try one of these.

Has anyone had one before?

Yes I've run one before hence needing another one! Really not happy with the throttle response as standard.

If this is the case then it's a little disappointing, the mk5 had torque all over the place which was something that made it a great all rounder.   

When I had a MINI Cooper you used to have to rev it up to 4,500 to get the most out of it which was a little annoying.

Looks like a re-map is going to be on the cards.

I was never that impressed with the torque on the mk5 GTI either. Same as the mk6, the torque is there but feels really flat in the mk5. These things need remapping!! Even if you don't drive like a loon (and I don't) the remap just makes these cars so much easier to drive. So much more rewarding to drive.
On modern congested roads it's just not practical to have all your performance at mid to high revs.
‘23 8R, ‘20 8CS, ‘19 135iX, ‘19 TCR, ‘17 Ed40, ‘17 GTD, ‘15 7R, ‘13 GTI PP, ‘11 GTI, ‘09 GTI, ‘98 Ibiza Cupra, ‘05 GTI, ‘06 Polo GTI, ‘04 GT TDI, ‘05 Fabia vRS, ‘02 GTI T, ‘03 Ibiza TDI 130, ‘01 Leon 180, ‘89 mk2 16v, ‘99 Ibiza TDI, ‘96 VR6, ‘98 Ibiza TDI, ‘92 VR6, ‘88 mk2 8v, ‘92 Polo G40, ‘91 mk2 8v, ‘89 mk2 8v, 205 GTI 1.9, ‘83 mk1 GTI, ‘80 Scirocco GTI, plus some others I’ve forgotten 

Offline Exonian

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Re: Engine sweet spot
« Reply #9 on: 13 November 2013, 16:55 »
I think your engines just need running it.
Full 350nm torque is available as follows:-
1500-4400rpms on standard GTi
1500-4600rpms on Performace GTi

Full horsepower as follows:-
220ps 4500-6200rpms
230ps 4700-6200rpms

:)

The torque might be there but it's well hidden by ECU mapping.
That seems to be a current trait with a lot of newer vehicles as I drove a new Vauxhall Combo van the other day and that felt sh!t after a 194000 miles three year old one it replaced!! No low down delivery at all which is rubbish in a delivery van that will be used round the town mostly.
Also the newer VW Caddy vans feel really flat compared to the ones we use at work that are a few years old. Same nominal power and torque but feel really flat.
It must be an Eco thing to get emissions down.
That's all very well on a test rig but in the real world if you have to rev the guts out of it to get it to drive right you're not exactly going to be very ecologically sound!
‘23 8R, ‘20 8CS, ‘19 135iX, ‘19 TCR, ‘17 Ed40, ‘17 GTD, ‘15 7R, ‘13 GTI PP, ‘11 GTI, ‘09 GTI, ‘98 Ibiza Cupra, ‘05 GTI, ‘06 Polo GTI, ‘04 GT TDI, ‘05 Fabia vRS, ‘02 GTI T, ‘03 Ibiza TDI 130, ‘01 Leon 180, ‘89 mk2 16v, ‘99 Ibiza TDI, ‘96 VR6, ‘98 Ibiza TDI, ‘92 VR6, ‘88 mk2 8v, ‘92 Polo G40, ‘91 mk2 8v, ‘89 mk2 8v, 205 GTI 1.9, ‘83 mk1 GTI, ‘80 Scirocco GTI, plus some others I’ve forgotten