Author Topic: GTD+  (Read 60541 times)

Offline RobS23GTI

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Re: GTD+
« Reply #60 on: 14 October 2013, 09:20 »
What's max torque for GTD clutch?

I think I’d be more worried about the clutch on a DSG than a manual. Even so, isn’t the 6 speed DSG rated for 450Nm (on the conservative side probably).

Seem to remember some TT's with the 170 engine having clutch problems after a remap because of max torgue rating, I'd be careful if I was you...

Do you think traction will be a problem? The mk6 after remap had the traction light flashing very often in first and second without much effort.
Current - Mk7 Golf GTI w/performance pack
Previous - VW Golf Mk6 GTD, Ford Fiesta ST, BMW M135i, VW Golf MK5 GTI

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: GTD+
« Reply #61 on: 14 October 2013, 10:23 »
Seem to remember some TT's with the 170 engine having clutch problems after a remap because of max torgue rating, I'd be careful if I was you...

Do you think traction will be a problem? The mk6 after remap had the traction light flashing very often in first and second without much effort.

Traction is already is problem with my GTD. Initial pick-up when pulling away with more than ½ throttle in the damp leads to tramping. If I’m in 2nd and put my foot 2/3 down under 15mph in the damp then again I get tramping.

I attribute the tramping in the damp to my Bridgestone Potenza tyres. In my MK7 GT Sport TDI170, tramping was prevalent with the Bridgestone Potenzas that came with the car. My Scirocco 170TDI never had a single tramping incident in wet or dry, with either the Pirelli P7s that came with, nor the Michelin Pilot Sport 3s that were fitted after. On the move traction is not a worry with the Bridgestones, I don’t feel that the car is going to slide etc at any point. The Bridgestones are a hardwearing compound – I got 23k out of the fronts on my MK5.

Were the TT 170s with clutch issues manual or DSG? As said, DSG 6 speed is rated for 450Nm. The manual’s clutch should be a lot more resilient than that. All said, it depends what you want from the box. I want more mpg and extra 4th/5th/6th clout when I might need it. I know that even with some grippier tyres – initial take-off of the GTD is it’s Achilles heel in 0-62 times due to grip vs torque surge (A3 with same engine shaves 0.6s off when Quattro is specced)  I’m unlikely to keep this car beyond warranty either.
Whey ya bugger! It's finally arrived after an 8 month wait....
MK7 R 5 door, manual, Lapiz Blue, Prets.

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: GTD+
« Reply #62 on: 14 October 2013, 11:39 »
The box is here, but it’s hoying it down with rain so I’m not sure I’ll get the opportunity to fit it at lunchtime. I have scanned the instructions in PDF for anyone that wants them emailing (unless, can I attach PDFs here or do I need to add them to photobucket at home later?). The documentation includes a colour photo of the GTD engine bay with the plastic engine cover off and the 2 points of connection labelled up. They are at the left of the common rail (for the injector sensor) and towards the right of the bay, on the left side of the air intake is where the intercooler sensor plugin seems to be.

Plenty of cable ties to hold the wiring harness and box in place. If you want to whip one of these out in a hurry (possible breakdown for VW assistance/RAC to recover to your dealer) I would suggest that you leave a pair of pliers in the car for snipping the cable ties. There is an Adrian Flux card in the box – so perhaps that particular broker looks upon these boxes favourably with minimal insurance premium “enhancements” – I will get a quote with them and see what the outcome is.

5 mins of the 10 min fitting time seems to be opening your vehicle up, popping the bonnet, closing the car up and waiting 5 mins for any residual current to leave the common rail sensor.
Whey ya bugger! It's finally arrived after an 8 month wait....
MK7 R 5 door, manual, Lapiz Blue, Prets.

Offline RobS23GTI

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Re: GTD+
« Reply #63 on: 14 October 2013, 13:00 »
Seem to remember some TT's with the 170 engine having clutch problems after a remap because of max torgue rating, I'd be careful if I was you...

Do you think traction will be a problem? The mk6 after remap had the traction light flashing very often in first and second without much effort.

Traction is already is problem with my GTD. Initial pick-up when pulling away with more than ½ throttle in the damp leads to tramping. If I’m in 2nd and put my foot 2/3 down under 15mph in the damp then again I get tramping.

I attribute the tramping in the damp to my Bridgestone Potenza tyres. In my MK7 GT Sport TDI170, tramping was prevalent with the Bridgestone Potenzas that came with the car. My Scirocco 170TDI never had a single tramping incident in wet or dry, with either the Pirelli P7s that came with, nor the Michelin Pilot Sport 3s that were fitted after. On the move traction is not a worry with the Bridgestones, I don’t feel that the car is going to slide etc at any point. The Bridgestones are a hardwearing compound – I got 23k out of the fronts on my MK5.

Were the TT 170s with clutch issues manual or DSG? As said, DSG 6 speed is rated for 450Nm. The manual’s clutch should be a lot more resilient than that. All said, it depends what you want from the box. I want more mpg and extra 4th/5th/6th clout when I might need it. I know that even with some grippier tyres – initial take-off of the GTD is it’s Achilles heel in 0-62 times due to grip vs torque surge (A3 with same engine shaves 0.6s off when Quattro is specced)  I’m unlikely to keep this car beyond warranty either.

I thought it was manuals but don't quote me as it was a while back to be honest.

I've had both Pirelli P6000's and Falken's (can't remember type) on the mk6 GTD and the traction has been an issue with both. Had a friend who also experienced similar as well but not sure what tyres he had.

I'd be getting the Goodyear Assym's if I wasn't happy...
Current - Mk7 Golf GTI w/performance pack
Previous - VW Golf Mk6 GTD, Ford Fiesta ST, BMW M135i, VW Golf MK5 GTI

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: GTD+
« Reply #64 on: 14 October 2013, 13:21 »
It is still lashing it down. Didn't fit the box at lunchtime....maybe later today if the rain lets up.
Whey ya bugger! It's finally arrived after an 8 month wait....
MK7 R 5 door, manual, Lapiz Blue, Prets.

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: GTD+
« Reply #65 on: 14 October 2013, 18:48 »
Fitted the box at Asda on the way home. Popped the bonnet, took my box in, did a bit of shopping and then opened the bonnet on the way out. The wait ensured any residual charge in the common rail sensor socket was gone as per instructions (they say wait 5 mins after opening the bonnet and then locking the car back up).

Fitting was a cinch. Pop the plastic cover off the engine (it just pops off its 4 frictionally held pegs), find the common rail sensor socket at the left end of the common rail, pull the socket out (remembering to push the locking tab down as you do it otherwise it won't come off). Plug the corresponding 2 sockets (1 each of male and female) of the tuning box wiring strap onto the exposed male and female ends of the plug you just unplugged on the common rail assembly.

Similar thing with the air inlet box on the right side of the engine block (the socket is on the left of the air inlet box) - unplugging the plug from the socket (again pushing the locking tab down on the plug as you pull it out) and plugging the other end of the box wiring strap into the socket and plugging the now loose plug with the other part of the wiring strap. It takes literally 90 seconds. Then plug the box into the wiring strap and tighten up the finger screws. You're done. Start the engine up and make sure it's purring without any warning lights being thrown up. You then have to decide where you're going to use your cable ties to secure your wiring strap to existing hoses and then secure your box so it doesn't rattle. Another 90 seconds. Put the plastic engine cover back on - line up the oil filler cap, and press the 4 pegs down - all secure. You're done.

Can't take pics now. Didn't have the camera with me when I did it, and it started raining as soon as I got home. It looks pitch black now. Pics tomorrow - weather permitting. I left the box on it's default middle setting 4 of 7, supposedly the best blend of power and economy - primarily because I didn't have a small screwdriver on me to open the box and change the jumper settings.

On the drive home, I had 2 stops that I wouldn't normally make and the car indicated 43mpg (what it has been doing on the last few commutes except this morning when it cracked 47mpg). I didn't put my foot down much, but the car seemed to have more power with less throttle pressing.

Not exactly sure whether the indicated mpg will increase with this box. Will the car work out it's mpg based on what the pre-altered sensory signals sent from the ECU would say the quantity of fuel the car wants to use (1), or whether something meters actual usage irrespective of the sensory signals sent by the ECU which subsequently get altered by the box on the way to destination (2).

Scenario 1 would have the car thinking it is using more fuel than it may actually be using (if driven economically), so you could end up with the car saying it's almost empty when it actually has a gallon more than it thinks it has (based on 10% gains). Conversely, you could be hammering the car and it ends up with less in the tank than it thinks it has.

Scenario 2 would have "accurate" mpg readings (within accepted variances) and you would see the gains or losses associated with the box straight away.
Whey ya bugger! It's finally arrived after an 8 month wait....
MK7 R 5 door, manual, Lapiz Blue, Prets.

Offline andyk11

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Re: GTD+
« Reply #66 on: 14 October 2013, 19:22 »
Looking good MH  :smiley:

Will be interesting to hear your thoughts over the next few days once you've had a chance to drive it a bit more. 

My experience with remapped cars is that the difference isn't always apparent pottering around at small throttle openings.  It's only when you live with it a bit that you really get a feel for the improved performance.

In the name of scientific research will you be trying it on its maximum setting?  :wink:
Tornado Red GTD ordered 25th April, confirmed BW34. Built sometime in BW36, now in the UK and delivered 27/09 :-)

Offline Buddy

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Re: GTD+
« Reply #67 on: 14 October 2013, 19:33 »
I'm pleased the turbo sensor plug sounds just as easy to access as the fuel sensor. Now that its clear the box needn't be set up to the individual car, am going to call them tomorrow to see if I can just send mine back for the free upgrade  :smiley:

Hope it stays dry enough for you to see what it's true capabilities are mate. Look forward to reading your thoughts.

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: GTD+
« Reply #68 on: 14 October 2013, 19:38 »
I'm pleased the turbo sensor plug sounds just as easy to access as the fuel sensor. Now that its clear the box needn't be set up to the individual car, am going to call them tomorrow to see if I can just send mine back for the free upgrade  :smiley:

Hope it stays dry enough for you to see what it's true capabilities are mate. Look forward to reading your thoughts.

Aye, get it swapped out. They updated the "true" (corrected) figs on their website - 243PS/502Nm, a small gain over the single channel box, but perhaps smoother delivery or better economy gains to be had with the dual channel system. Were they just spinning you a line to dissuade you from changing the box out?
Whey ya bugger! It's finally arrived after an 8 month wait....
MK7 R 5 door, manual, Lapiz Blue, Prets.

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: GTD+
« Reply #69 on: 14 October 2013, 19:40 »
Looking good MH  :smiley:

Will be interesting to hear your thoughts over the next few days once you've had a chance to drive it a bit more. 

My experience with remapped cars is that the difference isn't always apparent pottering around at small throttle openings.  It's only when you live with it a bit that you really get a feel for the improved performance.

In the name of scientific research will you be trying it on its maximum setting?  :wink:

Will keep it on medium setting for a week to see what the economy gains are when driving it "normally" - and get me closer to that magical 1000 miles (736 miles right now) before having a few "fun" days on the max setting next week.

I suppose I will have to brim it to see what the gains may be if the scenario of the MFD becoming inaccurate because it thinks more is getting used than is actually being used is true.
« Last Edit: 14 October 2013, 20:13 by monkeyhanger »
Whey ya bugger! It's finally arrived after an 8 month wait....
MK7 R 5 door, manual, Lapiz Blue, Prets.