Letter to Simon Thomas

[monkeyhanger]

When I left the BMW dealer I did wonder about the effect of cancelling on VW and why people do or do not cancel.  Obviously the answer is easy, it has no effect on VW...however I'll propose an alternate theory anyway:

I wonder if current VW customers who have already owned a GTI or GTD or Scirocco, and maybe have enjoyed these cars for some years are much more willing to wait the delays out.  These guys love the GTI, maybe are used to delays from mk6 experiences, maybe are less surprised by poor information from VW and find it easier to handle.  In contrast those of us who are considering a GTI for the first time perhaps were caught out more by the delays and service and don't have the same love of the legacy of these cars.

I'm generalising, but if the above is true on average then what effect might it have on VW?

Well in time the GTI fans will get older (sorry guys).  We see this already as the mk5 was targeted at guys in their 30s who have fond memories of mk1 or mk2 cars they could get on the cheap in their 20s.  So as these guys get older VW need the next generation to go for the GTI to keep the desirability high.  But, if first time GTI buyers are more likely to have been annoyed and cancel they may be taking a hit here.

As the mk8 and 9 come along I wonder if the ramifications of a bad launch of the mk6 and 7 might have some effect.  Who knows, but maybe... I for one have been put off, and it would be a massive uphill struggle for VW to convince me to go to them next time instead of a 3 series from the dealer that has just helped me out of this current mess.

I do hope VW takes note, but can't say I expect they will.

I have had 6 new VWs and I have never waited more than 3 months for one, not even when the Scirocco was new out and they had just as strict an allocation as the GTI/GTD. At the start of 2009, the car market was a lot quieter than it is now, dealerships were desperate for your business - probably less people in the queue back then.

The only things that keep me waiting are that my Scirocco is still a hell of a car, and there is nothing out there that comes close to the GTD for me as a performance diesel outside VAG.

[Bill_the_Bear]

I need some advice.

I received my deposit back today and thus my business with VW is concluded.  I have written a letter to Mr Simon Thomas detailing what has been happening and why I have cancelled my order.  I have one reservation about sending it though.  Although I have made clear in the letter that I do not attribute any blame to individual employees of VWUK, but rather believe it is their procedures that are to blame, it would not be hard for them to track down who I have dealt with and I cannot guarantee they would not then take some action against those people.

I strongly suspect little will change, other than it might add in to some tiny fraction of change in Mr Thomas' perception of how his company is performing.  But I do worry someone unintended might suffer.  I know that is VWs responsibility not mine but... what do you guys think, should I send the letter or not?

[Hawaii-Five-O]

I need some advice.

I received my deposit back today and thus my business with VW is concluded.  I have written a letter to Mr Simon Thomas detailing what has been happening and why I have cancelled my order.  I have one reservation about sending it though.  Although I have made clear in the letter that I do not attribute any blame to individual employees of VWUK, but rather believe it is their procedures that are to blame, it would not be hard for them to track down who I have dealt with and I cannot guarantee they would not then take some action against those people.

I strongly suspect little will change, other than it might add in to some tiny fraction of change in Mr Thomas' perception of how his company is performing.  But I do worry someone unintended might suffer.  I know that is VWs responsibility not mine but... what do you guys think, should I send the letter or not?

Send it... or things will never change.

As long as you don't implicate people directly your conscience should be clear.

[Gryzor]

I need some advice.

I received my deposit back today and thus my business with VW is concluded.  I have written a letter to Mr Simon Thomas detailing what has been happening and why I have cancelled my order.  I have one reservation about sending it though.  Although I have made clear in the letter that I do not attribute any blame to individual employees of VWUK, but rather believe it is their procedures that are to blame, it would not be hard for them to track down who I have dealt with and I cannot guarantee they would not then take some action against those people.

I strongly suspect little will change, other than it might add in to some tiny fraction of change in Mr Thomas' perception of how his company is performing.  But I do worry someone unintended might suffer.  I know that is VWs responsibility not mine but... what do you guys think, should I send the letter or not?

Procedures don't write themselves, and it's people that either follow them, or not.  I commend your reservations in not wanting to impact on people, but ultimately somebody is responsible somewhere.  How about sending a letter via a different e-mail, and really anonymise your story so that the facts are there about what happened, but no details on your order etc.?  I would definitely send it though, otherwise as H5O says, things will never change.

[matchboy]

If the people you've been dealing with haven't been doing their job properly, that's they're problem not yours.  If someone gets a b0llocking for p!ssing you around then so be it - you're not naming names, but the bottom line is that the system is seriously flawed.  In any case, it will be a faceless manager that will get a rocket and not the call centre people you've been dealing with.  Send it, nothing will change if all of us do not stand up for our customer rights!

[monkeyhanger]

I suppose you have to ask yourself who is really at fault with your treatment to determine who, if anyone is going to get an arse kicking. The dealership is the face of VW GmbH for many people. VW UK are the face of VW GmbH beyond the dealership for UK people.
VW UK don’t schedule cars nor make them. They may have directives in place that prohibit them from criticising VW GmbH directly and may have to make excuses for them and bluff or bullsh!t their way through when cars get delayed because maybe they are not given a direct answer from VW GmbH as to why.
Getting a satisfactory answer may depend greatly on whether the VW UK rep says “honestly, I don’t have a reason why your car build keeps getting knocked back, and VW GmbH won’t tell me” or they just make something up which you know (either at the time or later) to be false.
I haven’t really been treated that badly by VW UK themselves. In my letter to Simon Thomson, I was critical about the lack of information. I lay pretty much all the blame for my situation at VW GmbH, they really do seem to keep VW UK in the dark.
If your criticism is lack of unfo for which VW UK really have no control then VW UK reps shouldn’t get action taken against them. More likely would be that he asks VW to be a bit more transparent with information from Wolfsburg when things do go wrong.
Some people on the forum have clearly been treated shabbily by VW UK reps, when they have been treated contemptibly rather than with some understanding that the purchase they’ve made is a huge one and not to be taken lightly.
If I had been treated badly by a VW UK rep that had a stinking attitude towards the customer, I’d have no qualms about letting the powers that be know about it. For issues that are beyond the powers of the VW UK rep, I don’t think you’re going to get anyone into trouble at VW UK.

[theflash]

I suppose you have to ask yourself who is really at fault with your treatment to determine who, if anyone is going to get an arse kicking.

Got to agree, I've just discovered that Fleet sat on my order for a month before selecting a lease company to process my order through 

Don't know whether they had trouble finding one that had sufficient allocation to order my car (if that's how it works), or they just didn't do anything when I put the order in. FFS

I'd send the letter and let them find out who's to blame.

[Chief1337]

Guys, when the deposit is paid I was under the impression that you couldn't get it back? What's the trigger point which is allowing you to cancel these orders, has some clause been met in the T&C? I.e. over a certain number of weeks from order to delivery means you have the right to cancel etc?

I'm just keeping my options open, dealer is adamant that I'm on B/W 40 with delivery early November. However, I really can't wait past then to get the car. So if I get delayed like you guys have (and I'm highly likely to be), I'm going to cancel when I get the inevitable call from the dealer to tell me there has been a delay.

The tracker is still showing "with the factory", if we are in B/W 35 now, I should see this update to 'confirmed' next week? 4 Weeks before? If it's going ahead on B/W 40 that is.....

[Bill_the_Bear]

Guys, when the deposit is paid I was under the impression that you couldn't get it back? What's the trigger point which is allowing you to cancel these orders, has some clause been met in the T&C? I.e. over a certain number of weeks from order to delivery means you have the right to cancel etc?

I'm just keeping my options open, dealer is adamant that I'm on B/W 40 with delivery early November. However, I really can't wait past then to get the car. So if I get delayed like you guys have (and I'm highly likely to be), I'm going to cancel when I get the inevitable call from the dealer to tell me there has been a delay.

Ok well.  I never discussed this with my dealer.  When I said I was considering asking for the deposit back (I only ever said it like this, never said "considering cancelling") they said "ok, if that is what you want we can do that".  Other point would be my dealings have been on the phone and by letter, never in person.  They've never shown me any T&Cs or asking me to sign any.  The order form I signed only stated the spec of the car, no small print.

To answer your question, if the car is significantly later than they told you it would be that is grounds to get the deposit back.  How much is significantly later?  Dunno, maybe 4 weeks?  Perhaps the T&Cs say something.  I do think they will often give you the deposit back anyway because its a bit harsh not to, they can still sell the car after all!  If they refused I think you could contact the ombudsman and unless you've messed them about I think you'd get it back.

[Sootchucker]

Thing is, will Simon Thomas even give a toss, because as I understand it, he has left (or is immanently leaving) the position to take up a global marketing role within VW.

The new Managing director of Volkswagen Group (UK) Limited will be Paul Willcox (ex Nissan), with effect from September 16th.