Have VW restricted production of the GTD/GTI too much this time

[Bill_the_Bear]

That reminds me of another reason the M135i dropped off my shory list - no ability to select an extended 4yr warranty.

You can get 5 years.  Costs you £800 though.

[RobS23GTI]

Fair few valid points there.

But, I don't think the M135i is aimed at the "everyman" like the GTI, and you will see less on the used market than GTI's, which should put the value up long-term. Considering that you are getting M3 like performance for sub £30k, I can see it being expensive still in 3 years time. The Ford Focus RS's are still mega expensive used and are more than comparable to the M135i.

If you think about it logically, if the GTI & M135i were similar value after 3/4 years (within say £500), then a lot of used buyers wouldn't even bother looking at the GTI because of the performance gap. So either the GTI used value will drop accordingly or the M135i will remain that bit higher.

[monkeyhanger]

Fair few valid points there.

But, I don't think the M135i is aimed at the "everyman" like the GTI, and you will see less on the used market than GTI's, which should put the value up long-term. Considering that you are getting M3 like performance for sub £30k, I can see it being expensive still in 3 years time. The Ford Focus RS's are still mega expensive used and are more than comparable to the M135i.

If you think about it logically, if the GTI & M135i were similar value after 3/4 years (within say £500), then a lot of used buyers wouldn't even bother looking at the GTI because of the performance gap. So either the GTI used value will drop accordingly or the M135i will remain that bit higher.

No-one buys a GTI purely on the performance though, they buy it because it is very good at everything you expect of a car of its size. There will be more people looking for a practical hot hatch than are looking purely for a pocket-rocket, especially if fuel prices carry on rising.
The fact that you can get a new M135 on a standard 8-12 week build slot without a wait and the same cannot be said of the GTI would indicate  that the GTI’s demand exceeds its supply and will continue to do so if VW stick to its allocation regimen. Unless you think that there will be a far bigger demand on the used market for an M135 than is satisfied by those buying new, the GTI will hold its own regarding future values.
BMWs own confidence in GFV of £12k at 4 years (43%) puts it around the same as VW would at 4 years (solutions comes in at 51% for 36 months and 45% for 44 months – extrapolating for 48 months comes in at 42% assuming linear drop to 48 months which is worst case, £260 less for the GTI than the M135).
In reality you’re likely to see a fair p/x price of about 50% of list price for both if trading in at 4 years.
If you are looking for pure performance and a short order to collection then you’ll enjoy the M135 but I seriously doubt it will be a better (or worse) financial proposition than the GTI.

[Thornster]

That reminds me of another reason the M135i dropped off my shory list - no ability to select an extended 4yr warranty.

You can get 5 years.  Costs you £800 though.

Isn't that for the 5yr/50,000 mile Service Pack? I looked into at the time, and if there is an extended warranty BMW don't make it obvious...

[RobS23GTI]

Fair few valid points there.

But, I don't think the M135i is aimed at the "everyman" like the GTI, and you will see less on the used market than GTI's, which should put the value up long-term. Considering that you are getting M3 like performance for sub £30k, I can see it being expensive still in 3 years time. The Ford Focus RS's are still mega expensive used and are more than comparable to the M135i.

If you think about it logically, if the GTI & M135i were similar value after 3/4 years (within say £500), then a lot of used buyers wouldn't even bother looking at the GTI because of the performance gap. So either the GTI used value will drop accordingly or the M135i will remain that bit higher.

No-one buys a GTI purely on the performance though, they buy it because it is very good at everything you expect of a car of its size. There will be more people looking for a practical hot hatch than are looking purely for a pocket-rocket, especially if fuel prices carry on rising.
The fact that you can get a new M135 on a standard 8-12 week build slot without a wait and the same cannot be said of the GTI would indicate  that the GTI’s demand exceeds its supply and will continue to do so if VW stick to its allocation regimen. Unless you think that there will be a far bigger demand on the used market for an M135 than is satisfied by those buying new, the GTI will hold its own regarding future values.
BMWs own confidence in GFV of £12k at 4 years (43%) puts it around the same as VW would at 4 years (solutions comes in at 51% for 36 months and 45% for 44 months – extrapolating for 48 months comes in at 42% assuming linear drop to 48 months which is worst case, £260 less for the GTI than the M135).
In reality you’re likely to see a fair p/x price of about 50% of list price for both if trading in at 4 years.
If you are looking for pure performance and a short order to collection then you’ll enjoy the M135 but I seriously doubt it will be a better (or worse) financial proposition than the GTI.

There really isn't that much difference in costs to run the M135i, I think that's a fallacy tbh.

If you drive both conservatively (which you wont), and get 35mpg for the BMW and 45mpg (doubtful based on past VW experience) for the GTI then that's about £600 difference fuel cost over the year on 16,000 miles. I cant believe people are that bothered about £600 when spending circa £30k on a car, if you were that bothered then buy the GTD?

Each to their own though, the GTI is brilliant and I will have one again, but the M will be worth a fair bit more in 4 years or ill eat my hat

[drisser]

Don’t get me wrong I am a huge BMW 6 cyl fan but I think the market, especially for used, has moved on and just doesn’t like bigger engines once out of warranty – look at the M3 V8, they are going for peanuts and I reckon in 2 years you can get an E92 M3 for the same or less that an E46 M3.  BMW are doing huge deposit contributions on the M3 V8 that tells you the (new and used) market doesn’t want them anymore.

I think the M135 will always be more “niche” going forward and time will tell if that leads to strong residuals or not – there are quite a few on the BMW approved website and knocking on £25k already but I certainly don’t think you can compare it to the Focus RS which was much more limited production number.

I will certainly look at an M135 if the lead time on my GTi gets out of control and I also totally agree (and have always said ) that at £25-6k new the GTi works but at £30k + its too pricey in my view.

I do think that the wider appeal and perceived lower costs of running a Golf help it longer term in terms of 5 year + residuals, especially compared to bigger engine cars, provided you don’t go silly on the options list – which goes for both cars !  You can spec an M135 up to £38k easily and a golf up to £33k if you want.   It also depends how long you keep a car !  if you get rid after 2-3 years you will always be stung, if you keep it 5-7 years it will level off..

The day to day running costs of the Golf will definitely be lower though – road tax, insurance, slightly better on fuel and these are the things people look for on the used market.  When I bought my 330ci 3 years ago the market had just turned and they couldn’t sell 3 litre petrol cars on used forecourts, I got it for the price of a similar age Golf Tdi which cost £10k less when new.

[drisser]

to get back on topic though...

unless you are waiting for a Ferrari or such like, a really long lead time is going to put anyone off !  if it was the other way round and we all wanted an M135 and you could get a GTi in 6 weeks we would all be having that debate ! 

Its a fine line between supply and demand v cant be bothered to wait.. 

[Running Man]

Fair few valid points there.

But, I don't think the M135i is aimed at the "everyman" like the GTI, and you will see less on the used market than GTI's, which should put the value up long-term. Considering that you are getting M3 like performance for sub £30k, I can see it being expensive still in 3 years time. The Ford Focus RS's are still mega expensive used and are more than comparable to the M135i.

If you think about it logically, if the GTI & M135i were similar value after 3/4 years (within say £500), then a lot of used buyers wouldn't even bother looking at the GTI because of the performance gap. So either the GTI used value will drop accordingly or the M135i will remain that bit higher.

No-one buys a GTI purely on the performance though, they buy it because it is very good at everything you expect of a car of its size. There will be more people looking for a practical hot hatch than are looking purely for a pocket-rocket, especially if fuel prices carry on rising.
The fact that you can get a new M135 on a standard 8-12 week build slot without a wait and the same cannot be said of the GTI would indicate  that the GTI’s demand exceeds its supply and will continue to do so if VW stick to its allocation regimen. Unless you think that there will be a far bigger demand on the used market for an M135 than is satisfied by those buying new, the GTI will hold its own regarding future values.
BMWs own confidence in GFV of £12k at 4 years (43%) puts it around the same as VW would at 4 years (solutions comes in at 51% for 36 months and 45% for 44 months – extrapolating for 48 months comes in at 42% assuming linear drop to 48 months which is worst case, £260 less for the GTI than the M135).
In reality you’re likely to see a fair p/x price of about 50% of list price for both if trading in at 4 years.
If you are looking for pure performance and a short order to collection then you’ll enjoy the M135 but I seriously doubt it will be a better (or worse) financial proposition than the GTI.

There really isn't that much difference in costs to run the M135i, I think that's a fallacy tbh.

If you drive both conservatively (which you wont), and get 35mpg for the BMW and 45mpg (doubtful based on past VW experience) for the GTI then that's about £600 difference fuel cost over the year on 16,000 miles. I cant believe people are that bothered about £600 when spending circa £30k on a car, if you were that bothered then buy the GTD?

Each to their own though, the GTI is brilliant and I will have one again, but the M will be worth a fair bit more in 4 years or ill eat my hat

I'll send you some ketchup, you're going to need it for the hat meal 

[Moro]

I'm prepared for a wait...up to a point.

I ordered in June, and have a provisional BW39...but, I 'll only accept the car I specced up. Any deviation from spec - like no reversing camera - will be unacceptable and I'll take my deposit back and reject the car.

I waited 51 weeks after ordering an Audi TT in 2006 to get what I wanted, so I'm prepared to wait...but I do run 2 cars, so I can be particular.

If I don't get the Golf I want by the end of October 2013, I'll be ordering an Audi S3 for March 2014 delivery - if possible!

[drisser]

One thing is certain, the s3 will hold its value better than either m135 or golf !