Golf R /RD

[monkeyhanger]

As this seems to have developed into a diesel vs petrol spat, I have never quite figured out why the diesel lovers are completely oblivious to the cost of replacing the obligatory DPF (particluate filter). Perhaps it is because they hope it will last beyond the three year warranty? Whatever. When (not if) it fails it will probably negate any fuel savings and you would have been better with GTI in the first place. I have been guilty of this (with my recent Mk 6) and will never buy a diesel again, at least not one that is equipped with a DPF.

DPF is good for many miles. The MK5 2.0TDI PD engine has a DPF rated for 150k miles before it fills up with incombustible ash, The MK7 GTD is 20% more fuel efficient so should be good for 180k miles. Nowt to worry about! If you have DPF issues it is generally because you're not doing decent miles on your trips to get a passive regen going on a regular basis or there is something wrong with your engine, making it run rich - like a dribbly injector.

Did you have issues with yours  or have you been reading up on the scare stories and made assumptions? 

My MK5 170TDI had some iniitial issues (it was the first Golf to have a TDI with a DPF, 170 only, 140 PD didn't have it) with frequent forced DPF regen and poor economy. After some investigative work VW applied an official remap and the car ran like a dream after that. My 2 Sciroccos since have driven without a single forced regen, everything happening passively for normal DPF operation and anticipated 150k miles operational life.

Do you really think VW would fit equipment like DPF with a £1200 replacement cost that would be likely shagged possibly just within warranty? That would cost VW a fortune, nor would they deliberately saddle a TDI owner with such a cost through normal circumstances not long after warranty implications, there would be hell on!

I can see why you're not a TDI fan, the 1.6 unit is an abomination - barely more economical than a new 2.0TDI but way down on power and there have been some DPF issues with it, especially on shorter journeys - the unit is in it's infancy, I think VW are still learning with it. It's a pointless engine - don't know why VW didn't do the BMW approach - a single 2.0 diesel engine with many stages of tune. I'm sure they could've stretched 74mpg combined from a 2.0 unit detuned to about 110PS.

[monkeyhanger]

Agree with you 100% H50

The gti fits the 4 cyl do everything well mode perfectly, if you want to go to the next level, it should say to hell with the economy and be a 5 or 6 cyl motor to truly differentiate it.

I don't think I would ever pay upwards of 30k or so for a 4 cylinder car.  I have a 1998 fiat coupe 20v turbo that cost £1800 and the 5 cyl engine in that is just something else, so much more sound and character than a 4 cylinder.    Rather than swap the gti for an R I would rather keep it and buy a used e46 BMW M3 CSL for summer fun 

The MK5 R32 was a truly great car. My neighbour had one - fast as feck and sounded many times better than a 4 cylinder, effortless performance - and 19mpg in everyday use.

[DougL]

I can see why you're not a TDI fan, the 1.6 unit is an abomination

Actually, the engine is a little peach and combined with DSG, is remarkably quick and unbelievably economical. I just won't ever buy either DSG or a DPF equipped car ever again, whatever assumptions you think I have made. The DSG recalls in China and extended warranties to 10 years in the US and elsewhere have made sure of that one. I have never had any problems with my car in particular, however.

[monkeyhanger]

I can see why you're not a TDI fan, the 1.6 unit is an abomination

Actually, the engine is a little peach and combined with DSG, is remarkably quick and unbelievably economical. I just won't ever buy either DSG or a DPF equipped car ever again, whatever assumptions you think I have made. The DSG recalls in China and extended warranties to 10 years in the US and elsewhere have made sure of that one. I have never had any problems with my car in particular, however.

US always get 10 year “powertrain” warranties. It’s standard on all cars over there. If VW didn’t do it then the yanks would all be buying Chryslers, Fords, GMs, Hondas instead that do have it. Not a bad thing (for them) and doesn’t reflect on the reliability at all – it’s just something they have to do to compete in that market. Proton did it for a short while (and heavily advertised the fact) when getting themselves established in the UK and then quietly removed it.

Just goes to show how much VW must be making from its European sales if it can afford to subsidise US sales to the extent that it does with both significantly lower car prices and gold plated warranties. When the lack of a 5 year warranty starts harming EU sales of VWs and other VAG group cars, they will make it standard- they only do what they need to do. VW prices in the US aren’t 35% cheaper purely down to using Mexican labour for many of the VWs supplied to the US, and it’s not like they see their equipment massively cut back either (they even get free metallic paint).

VW DPFs are nowt to worry about (given their huge expected service life) unless you’re pootling to the shops and back. Doing 5 mile journeys all the time? Don’t buy a TDI. Not sure why you have such massive concerns about the DPF despite having no issues with the system yourself. I’m in my 3rd VW with DPF now and have no concerns at all since the first one’s teething troubles were sorted very quickly.

The 1.6TDI/DPF is a bad combination for many. There are people who are drawn to the 1.6TDI because they want the most economical option and are only doing short journeys anyway, then wonder why the DPF light is coming on frequently with forced regens rather than passive regens. Some of them are being mis-sold and the high output 1.2TSI or low output 1.4TSI would probably be a better fit for their driving habits. There is someone on another forum who’s had nowt but bother with his and claims he does 13k miles a year so shouldn’t have an issue (but has actually done about 1200 miles in 3 months). TDI on a city car makes no sense at all.

[Bill_the_Bear]

I can see why you're not a TDI fan, the 1.6 unit is an abomination

Actually, the engine is a little peach and combined with DSG, is remarkably quick and unbelievably economical

Isn't the 1.4 petrol more economical, and faster... and cheaper.

[DougL]

US always get 10 year “powertrain” warranties. It’s standard on all cars over there.

No it's certainly not standard on all cars over there. VW have just applied it to their DSG box in the US. It has a 10 year warranty for Touaregs but 5 for everything else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-Shift_Gearbox#Problems_and_recalls_of_DSG-equipped_vehicles

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/vw-uk-why-we-dont-need-dsg-recall

DPFs are in inelegant engineering solution to an emissions problem and while they may not affect most of us who change cars relatively frequently, they are bound to fail and be an huge expense, at some stage. I am buying the GTI, hopefully with the intention of keeping it longer term than I would normally keep a car, so its relative mechanical simplicity with a manual box and a petrol engine is a bonus.

[monkeyhanger]

DPFs are in inelegant engineering solution to an emissions problem and while they may not affect most of us who change cars relatively frequently, they are bound to fail and be an huge expense, at some stage. I am buying the GTI, hopefully with the intention of keeping it longer term than I would normally keep a car, so its relative mechanical simplicity with a manual box and a petrol engine is a bonus.

At some stage. Same can be said of all tech on your car. Your original DPF related post implied it was highly likely they'd be knacked within 3 years or soon after. More than a little misleading to the uninformed, a shock statement with not an ounce of substance.

All VWs are built with the intention of major components lasting well beyond the warranty for all but consumable items such as brakes, clutch and tyres. DPF is not a consumable item and it is intended to last as long as the average car will. At 180k miles service life this is not an issue that will affect many people in ownership of a VAG TDI, many cars will have been scrapped for other issues by that point and replacements will only get cheaper as time goes on.

[RobS23GTI]

The DPF was definitely a major issue on the Mk5's and all of the 170 engines throughout the VAG range (think there was some serious mis-selling going on), but since they moved to CR170 it has improved dramatically from what you hear.
My GTD has done 54k and ive not had one forced regen in the 12000 miles I've had it.

So definitely a bit of a blanket statement there!

[Bill_the_Bear]

DSG recalls in China

I think this is an overreaction.  I've spec'ed DSG and have no end of people at the office keep telling me (very patronising) "ooh, you don't want to do that, just go google DSG problems..." and then smiling all smug like they know something I don't.

Well, its always the 7 speed dry DSG that is being recalled, not the 6 speed fitted to the GTI.  If you look at the details of the China recall the cars are all 1.4TSI, which has the 7 speed box, and they are manufactured in China itself.  There are some imports from Germany also being recalled but this is just because they've issued a blanket recall, the problem is the Chinese build ones as I understand it.

To be honest I'm kind of sick of work colleagues or friends down the pub constantly telling me what is wrong with my choice of car.  After DSG they go to: "White, no that looks rubbish.  Get grey" (I get asked if I've "changed the colour to grey yet?" about 3 times a day... ).  "Ugh, those seats look like my nan's conservatory furniture, you haven't ordered them have you?"  (as it happens I've got leather, but that's not the point).  "Don't get 5 door it looks crap, get 3 door."  "Don't like the red trim in the headlights..."  The latest one is criticism of the e-diff.

So my mate has just bought a Civic R (07 model or something).  The other morning he was joking that I should cancel the GTI and get a 2014 Civic R (Can you not just be positive about my choice of car?  For just once, is that too much to ask?).  Trying to be friendly and chatty instead of just going silent every time the GTI is insulted I asked if the Civic would be getting an LSD?  ...Apparently "they've had them since 2010".  No, I say, is it getting a front e-diff.  Right now the GTI is the only one on the market with one.  "Oh, you don't want to get an e-diff, go and Google e-diff problems."  "There are loads and loads of cars with e-diffs."  "Look up jaguar e-diff problems." etc etc etc...

/rant

I've forgotten what my point is now.  I think it was that often it is said that there are going to be problems, but that in reality no data is offered to back those claims up or the statements are made out of context.  If you steer clear of everything that has gone wrong at some random time in the past then you just make life unnecessarily difficult for yourself.  As they say in Rain Man:

- "Quantas never crashed."
- "That's gonna do me a lot of good Ray. Quantas doesn't fly to L.A. out of Cincinnati. You have got to get to Melbourne... Australia in order to get the plane that flies to Los Angeles!"

[monkeyhanger]

Bill: Yep - you only hear about the bad stuff. For every bad DSG there will be thousands of good ones that don't have a voice.

Honda Civic though? They're cheap (built to a very noticeable price), the design is very marmite and unless the new 2013/14 model has changed, it won't even have a multilink rear suspension that'll massively compromise the handling (your colleagues might have it if it is the grandad looking one and not the newer "space-age" looking one). The old Civic (circa 2005ish) was a grandad looking car, and adding some sporting cues on the R didn't really save it in the looks. Not a fan of the naturally aspirated 200ps engine either. You had to rev the nuts off it to get it to do anything. Below 4500rpm it was useless due to it's massive lack or torque. I think you'll know who has the better car!