Author Topic: Honest "real-world" mpg predictions for the GTI & GTI PP  (Read 25504 times)

Offline monsta

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Re: Honest "real-world" mpg predictions for the GTI & GTI PP
« Reply #30 on: 01 September 2013, 14:42 »
Last Sunday I took a very leisurely spin in mine, Sunday driving style, rural roads, mostly 45-60mph in 6th gear. Over 100 miles I averaged 43.5mpg. Pretty decent.

That figure drops considerably once I hit stop/start traffic or I drive the car like it should be driven  :smiley:

If I averaged anything over 40 I would be over the moon with the mk7, I've only ever got 37 mpg on my mk5

Offline JoeGTI

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Re: Honest "real-world" mpg predictions for the GTI & GTI PP
« Reply #31 on: 01 September 2013, 15:07 »
Last Sunday I took a very leisurely spin in mine, Sunday driving style, rural roads, mostly 45-60mph in 6th gear. Over 100 miles I averaged 43.5mpg. Pretty decent.

That figure drops considerably once I hit stop/start traffic or I drive the car like it should be driven  :smiley:

If I averaged anything over 40 I would be over the moon with the mk7, I've only ever got 37 mpg on my mk5

Yeah but like I said, I've found that I'll only get those figures if I drive very leisurely. 30-35 is more realistic if you "drive on".
MK8.5 GTI Clubsport. Moonstone grey. Queenstown 19’s. DCC. Harmon Kardon sound. Pano roof.

Offline monsta

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Re: Honest "real-world" mpg predictions for the GTI & GTI PP
« Reply #32 on: 01 September 2013, 15:11 »

Yeah but like I said, I've found that I'll only get those figures if I drive very leisurely. 30-35 is more realistic if you "drive on".

Yeah that mpg figure I quoted is on cruise control on the motorway at about 80 mph on the speedo :)

Offline Bill_the_Bear

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Re: Honest "real-world" mpg predictions for the GTI & GTI PP
« Reply #33 on: 01 September 2013, 15:13 »
Even though I'm not getting a dual clutch anymore I don't the gap with the manual really is 10%.  The manual figures assume optimum shifting times and realistically no ne ever is.  DSG will always be the same though so you can expect to achieve the DSG figures (all else equal).  So manual may be better, but probably not that much better. 5% maybe.

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: Honest "real-world" mpg predictions for the GTI & GTI PP
« Reply #34 on: 01 September 2013, 16:17 »
Even though I'm not getting a dual clutch anymore I don't the gap with the manual really is 10%.  The manual figures assume optimum shifting times and realistically no ne ever is.  DSG will always be the same though so you can expect to achieve the DSG figures (all else equal).  So manual may be better, but probably not that much better. 5% maybe.

CO2 output is analogous with fuel consumption, and even the official fuel consumption figures show a 9.4% disparity. Assuming reality varies from book figures at the same % for both manual and DSG given the same driving style then you'll still see the same disparity.

DSG rarely drives economically - it is either shifting up way too early in an attempt to be economical, or if you put your foot down a bit it hangs on to gears a lot longer than I would with a manual, taking it near the red line - it doesn't have much middle ground for medium acceleration. You also have a lack of engine braking such as when you might take your foot off the gas early when approaching a roundabout and brake later - making the most of your momentum etc.

The DSG version of my Scirocco is geared a little lower than my manual one - i'd expect the MK7 Golf to be the same for all variants. The top speed on the DSG is lower than the manual (albeit negligibly) which seems to suggest it geared lower or has to work a little harder (and use more fuel) to do whatever the manual does.
 
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Offline Bill_the_Bear

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Re: Honest "real-world" mpg predictions for the GTI & GTI PP
« Reply #35 on: 01 September 2013, 17:41 »
You are assuming the guy with the DSG car has the worst possible situation while the guy with the manual car has the best possible situation.  People just don't make optimum shifts with a manual box, so the results you get with a manual will be lower than the published figures.  The DSG will shift exactly the same in tests or in the real world so it will not have this penalty.

Beyond this both will suffer in various ways but I'm just saying when you keep quoting the 10% figure you are assuming the manual driver always makes a perfect shift.  They do not, ergo the gap is less than 10%.

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: Honest "real-world" mpg predictions for the GTI & GTI PP
« Reply #36 on: 01 September 2013, 19:16 »
You are assuming the guy with the DSG car has the worst possible situation while the guy with the manual car has the best possible situation.  People just don't make optimum shifts with a manual box, so the results you get with a manual will be lower than the published figures.  The DSG will shift exactly the same in tests or in the real world so it will not have this penalty.

Beyond this both will suffer in various ways but I'm just saying when you keep quoting the 10% figure you are assuming the manual driver always makes a perfect shift.  They do not, ergo the gap is less than 10%.

Well i've had a MK5 Golf 170 TDI, and i've also had a lend of my dads for a few weeks when he was on holiday and mine was in for some serious warranty work - same car but he had DSG and I had manual. 50mpg on mine and 45mpg on his. Same driver, same driving style (as much as the DSG will let you be the same), 10% difference in fuel economy. Maybe if the manual driver has the perfect shift then it could be more than 10%. The manual Golfs and Scirocco since MY2011 have had economy gear change prompts, and when i'm in an economically minded mood it pretty much agrees with what I am doing (hence no prompts).

I know my car well enough that under gentle acceleration, unless i'm getting a regen, it will suggest I change up to 3rd at 18mph, 4th at 24mph, 5th at 30mph and 6th at 40mph, and correspondingly it asks me to shift down if I go at less than these speeds in said gear. If i'm not driving it gently, I will change up at a speed that will ensure that I will hit the next gear at not less than 1900rpm, to keep the turbo happy.

Maybe we forget these things once we get used to DSG and the car is doing all of our gear change thinking for us, but a manual driven well will surpass a 6 speed DSG in economy by quite a margin unless you are permanently sat in 6th and cruising.

This is because there are more than 2 situations for considering gear changes, and DSG only seems to consider 2 scenarios (extremely early change up under very light acceleration or have the gearbox knock down a cog or 2 and have the car run to the red line under anything under light acceleration). There are times when you put your foot down moderately in the same gear because for the situation you want might only require a little spurt of acceleration and it's not worth knocking down a gear.

Lower gear ratios on the DSG don't help the situation either. It's 6th gear is like "5.8" when you compare it to a manual - that will always cost you more fuel.

Not an issue with the 7 speed DSG or 8 speed BMW auto box - the auto is more economical than the manual in that situation, more gears to choose from and higher top gear ratio.

There are plenty of situations when the DSG doesn't make the perfect shift because it doesn't know what you want to do next (such as anticipating a maneuvre that may see you stay in a gear a few seconds toavoid the DSG shifting up and then back down again), it best guesses with the amount of throttle you are giving at any given time.

DSG will give you an easy drag race from the lights, but on the economy side, for any given driver and their style it is on a downer. Experience and VW figures reflect that.
« Last Edit: 01 September 2013, 19:22 by monkeyhanger »
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Offline Bill_the_Bear

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Re: Honest "real-world" mpg predictions for the GTI & GTI PP
« Reply #37 on: 01 September 2013, 20:09 »
As I haven't actually driven the DSG I bow to your experience here!

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Re: Honest "real-world" mpg predictions for the GTI & GTI PP
« Reply #38 on: 01 September 2013, 20:16 »
My mk5 GTI, and both my mk6 GTI's were not too far off official mpg when driven Republican.

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: Honest "real-world" mpg predictions for the GTI & GTI PP
« Reply #39 on: 01 September 2013, 21:43 »
As I haven't actually driven the DSG I bow to your experience here!

I don't suppose many people drive both manual and auto variants of the same car, and they'll only be bothered what their car is doing, no matter which one they get.

 
Whey ya bugger! It's finally arrived after an 8 month wait....
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