Head Gasket

[GTI-Virgin]

Hi all,
 so I've been lurking for 3 months since i got my 1997 AGG 2l 8v MK3 GTI 3 months ago, all standard and in good nick apart from a slow coolant leak it runs like a dream & all the extras work a treat. I drive a brand new vw caddy daily but the golf just has summat about it i love, Ive got the DubBug.

So during the cold weather due to me not renewing the tax i left it sat in the cold, takes it out for a 10min drive and saw the coolant light come on within 5 mins, so i left it to cool then drove to garage to treat her to some coolant as the last owner(family use) has used just water making it rusty.

By the time i came to puttin coolant in her it came straight out the bottom 

Now Iv realised I've run it empty of coolant causing an overpressure situation and this has caused my nightmare! 3 wks ago when i drove it she was going lovely, temp sitting in the middle steady as a stone and no warning lights. Evidently driving it empty of coolant has blown the head gasket.

So long story short, in my naivety i took it to a garage and payed £120 just to get the core plug put back in, NOW i know thats an easy job and most likely the cause of my problems. So we refill it and find its leaking still mechanic says head gasket and due to the steam in the exhaust(i only drove it 1/2 mile after that) I believe him. So iv traaaaaawled the web looking for a guide/advice but none anywhere, so today I've ordered head gasket, bolts & a haynes manual, gotta tackle it myself as no cash to pay anyone and need it urgently for work. As im a gas fitter, doing mainly breakdowns(awkward tiiiight places, seized bolts & loadsa patience req) I think im up to tackling it and have a good idea of the principles, i reckon iv got the patience & most the tools to do it. 

Due to my m8 only driving it 4-5 miles max on empty before we tried to fill up the coolant im hoping...nay praying the head isnt warped, so im gonna try a new gasket and if its warped il go from there as i dont own any feeler guages to check it.

Now I beg of you, Has anybody got any tips or advice, anything?? I reckon its my tit of a m8s fault as I saw the temp guage over middle before i let him drive it, the coolant light on and the heating hadn't activated which i assume is down to not enough coolant to reach the thermostat & activate it.

Now iv done plenty of research online but very little is relevant, i was even tempted to try "steel seal" but thought it might cause more probs.

So guys, its xmas, please have a heart & help a really stuck virgin dubber out 

PS-if anyones local and wants 2 help im happy to do gas/plumbing work in return as part payment, my specialism is fixin boilers but i can fit em, service em, whatever u need.

I wait with baited breath for your input guys, can I do it? do I need any specialist tools aside from socket set, spanners, torque wrench, blowtorch, multimeter, tons of handtools, Flue gas analyser(measures C02, CO, O2 levels precisely etc..?

Happy New year, hopefully somebody can make mine 

[DRG Dubs]

Did your "mechanic" do a sniff test as steam at the tail pipe just dont cut it as a diagnostic.

[GOLF-MK3-GTI]

Oil coolers are common to go on these, mine packed in, leaving all Mayo and after speaking to various vw specialist, they told me start with the oil cooler first. And that was the problem

[GTI-Virgin]

Thanks for the input guys, but what in my story points to a faulty oil cooler? Surely it would just overheat plain and simple? not lose all its coolant? He owns a very busy local garage and he pressure tested it in front of me to diagnose, as I fix boilers all day every day hes aware im not stupiud, and hes just to busy to do it & wants a small fortune. Dunno about a sniff test?

So could running it dry for 30 mins knacker the oil cooler aswell? From the mechanics(1 gti owner) iv spoke to iv been told Il need to ensure the water pump is working ok aswell as like a heating pump running dry can kill em.

The test he did was a pressure test, lasted about 30 secs and he could tell from that & the description of running it dry it was likely the head gasket. If it was the oil cooler wouldn't that just cause overheating? As opposed to the coolant to dissapearing at a rapid rate, like i said guys the line between the steam at the exhaust & head gasket was my conclusion, he didnt even mention that, but its gettin shot of its water in minutes and from a good few hours online the cause & symptoms do appear consistent with a head gasket.

Hes aware im doing it myself and have ordered the bits, so if hes talkin sh!te he knows i only live round the corner.

Thanks for the input guys and im no mechanic, but I was more wondering if anybody has changed their own head gasket? or has any tips on how? From all the reading iv done the cooling systems on cars are remarkably simple & not unlike heating systems in houses. Id have thought an oil cooler would have higher temp tolerances, and surely these issues wouldnt be manifested by emptying water(invisibly)at a rapid rate? as opposed to just overheating.
Also how would a faulty oil cooler prevent the car heater circuit operating? and allow the engine temp to just rise?

Im quite certain of the cause(no coolant, driven dry)and the symptoms are logically consistent with that train of thought so il be havin a crack at the head gasket in the next few days anyway.

But I bow to your superior knowledge, is there a way to prove the oil cooler? when fixin boilers the difference between a decent engineer & a guys that just guesses and chucks parts at it usually comes down to "proving" diagnosis(ie-suspect cooling t'stat=drop it in boiling water & observe if it operates).

I've got analysing equipment that may be usefull for checking this? we use em for boilers and they are about £700, as i said above.'

Again any advice, opinions or ideally a rough idea of whats requiremed to change a head gasket would be appreciated 

[Leon27]

Is the car overheating now if you top up the coolant and run it up? These cars can sometimes be problematic to bleed and the coolant level will drop causing an air lock and overheat the car. If you haven't bled the coolant system I'd give that a go to get all the air out.

There are some methods you can try to check for a head gasket failure, ranging from little testers that detect exhaust gas in the coolant expansion tank (never work for me though!) pressurising the cylinder with air and trying to see bubbles in the expansion tank or you could try to remove all the spark plugs and carry out a coolant pressure test overnight/for a few hours. Then try and start the car with a newspaper or tissue in front of the spark plug holes. If when the engine is spun over the tissue gets wet then you have water in the cylinder and the head should come off.
The last one is normally very conclusive!

Firstly, I'd try and bleed the car if your mechanic hasn't done so already and as noted by DRG dubs, steam out of the exhaust isn't really a conclusive test to say the head needs removal. Then get a coolant pressure test done and see if it holds. If it holds you might be ok hopefully. If it doesn't hold then look for any external leaks, top up the coolant some more just in case you had an air lock, re test it. Then try the method of removing the plugs to see if there is water in the cylinder.

Hope that helps a bit. It's a lot of work to be removing the head especially on an older engine where bolts may snap on removal. When a head is removed the oil and filter must be changed and as the cambelt is to be taken off the head that too ideally should be changed along with the tensioner (unless its recently been done) depending on the severity of the heat then the head could be warped and may need skimming to make it flat again. I've also had blocks warped as well.

It can get very costly so you need to be very sure about removing the head. A faulty oil cooler can cause problems, blocked radiator, water pump not circulating, fan not cutting in. There may be a small coolant leak that can't be seen initially and one of the above issues together may give your symptoms. If you can rule them all out then think about taking the head off.

[GTI-Virgin]

Thanks alot for the helpful post, but i must say im still inclined to suspect the head gasket as this car ran like a dream until the fateful night a few days ago, when i went to put the coolant in i could see the rust marks in the expansion ball & it had seized shut, making me think a serious overpressure situation had occured.

Basically imagine running the car with NO coolant in whatsoever, this he claims has damaged the head gasket.

Yes its overheating as its not holding its water pressure, but with no visible leakage, the mechanic who refit the core plug pressurised it for about 30 secs before the pressure began to drop, upon which(he did not even see the steam, that was me!!)he diagnosed it as a head gasket.

So the facts we already have are(not mine or mechanics opinions)-under pressure test its less than a minute before a drop starts showing, it was run dry for a few miles after the core plug had come loose-When coolant is added its going somewhere and that place isnt visible.-Not 1 of these symptoms was present before this incident(apart from a slow coolant leak-once a month refill id say)-it was drove all in for under an hour, gently and short distances while empty by some evidently blind tw@t not caring that temp guage was past middle & coolant light was on-so from these facts is it still likely to not be the head gasket?

Im no mechanic but based on the workings of an engine cooling system(pretty basic) im wondering how it could have goosed all the other bits, that day was the FIRST time ever the heating didnt come on, which likely means the thermostat didnt get got enough due to no water/coolant in the circuit.

Also as iv ordered the gasket im kinda comitted :/ Also when u say filter & oil must be changed, do u really mean MUST? I've got the impression from posts on this site and others that replacing a head gasket can be done in 3-5 hrs by an amateur with half a brain, and that oil changes are advised, not essential.
Thanks again for your patience guys, but the quirk i missed out to keep it simple is that the night this happened  my m8 bought the car off me after 3 hrs of persuasion as i didnt wanna sell it, and rushed off before i had chance to check anything so now im kinda on the spot.

[GTI-Virgin]

Would steel seal be worth a go?

[F17BAD]

Not read all this so sorry if its already been said

but id just replace the engine if the HG is deffo gone.. quickest fix

[DRG Dubs]

As you have now mentioned your mechanic has carried out a prussure test seems to lean toward head gasket faliure, but this is not a conclusive test as the oil cooler could have failed.
First things first from the way you have written your posts being honest a head gasket replacement is not a task to be carried out by a novice, but as you are adiment and you have obligated to ordering parts go for it.
A few things missing from your list are:
1. Timing belt kit this is just good practice
2. A decent anti freeze
3. I always skim the head and have it crack tested
4. Oil filter
5. Oil (this may have been affected by the HG faliure or broken down when the car overheated)

As this is your first bash at doing this take as many pictures as you can during the replacment this will always bee a good referance when you ask yourself "where does that go again".
Lay the parts out you remove in a order dont just throw them in a pile, check and replace if needed any part that looks dodgy. Clean and clean again, use a stanley blade to clean mating surfaces do not go at it like a mad man take your time.
Read and try to understand timing as this can cause many problems upon the refit, also as you have ordered a Haynes manual read the step by step guides before you go at it.
We all started some where so why not with a head gasket i cut my teeth years ago doing a full engine rebuild and a twin turbo conversion in one hit and it worked.
Last thing Good Luck

[GTI-Virgin]

Not read all this so sorry if its already been said

but id just replace the engine if the HG is deffo gone.. quickest fix

Surely removing the engine is gonna be alot harder than replacing the head gasket? I've read that for a mechanic its a 2-3 hr job and pretty straightforward, unless that is the head is warped.

Thx alot DRG Dubs, your post is really helpfull m8, working on boilers all day will help alot as often its a case of remove 5 parts to get to 1, then youv gotta remake all those connections with no leaks etc, so cleaning mating surfaces on connetions etc is second nature to me. Spending 20 mins undoing 1 seized awkward nut is something i do daily so im used to remaining calm when alot of ppl would get so stressed they rush and they f**k it up. Il follow your tips, my only problem will be if it needs skimming. If thats the case is it the actual head that req skimming? if so i can take that into the garage.

Im very reluctant to do that m8(replacing the engine) as this issue aside, the car is a fantastic fault free example, rust free, 100% standard example being a family car most its life. The engine sounds great and old ppl have had it for 10yrs so its NEVER been ragged or abused, its as if its been in a timewarp so i really wanna fix the engine rather than waste a good unmolested engine. When i jump in that from my brand new VW Caddy 1.9TDi its just as smooth but more responsive.

As I said I fix boilers for a living, sometimes after 2-3 so called gasmen have been n told em they need a new boiler, usually cos they are 2 thick to properly prove diagnosis which in there case is often a guess  Dunno bout mechanics but in my trade many sooo many guys are totally inadequate at diagnosing faults, to the customers cost.

If anybody wants advice on boilers, or any1 local needs 1 fixing im more than happy to trade knowledge. Im Gas Safe Registered.