Legal question, fine from the DVLA

[Livefast123]

The DVLA want you to deliver the documents by post to the Sec of State.

I would send them a letter stating that under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 you have correctly addressed and stamped the envelope and that you sent the documents back to them as soon as you had sold the vehicle (Date and Location if possible). Therefore you have fully discharged any liability falling on you and that if your letter has not caused an update in the system then that is their problem not yours.

[The Mighty Elvi]

Josh.



Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your response regarding the fine you wish to impose on myself.

I would like to point out that as the law stands; as soon as I posted my V5C to yourselves, as you requested, it is classed as a served notification. I have included below a quoted section of the Interpretations Act 1978 Section 7 which relates to the above.

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

I would also like to point out that The Universal Postal Union (of which Britain is a signatory) makes it clear that, in the UK, post becomes the property of the recipient at the moment it is committed to the Royal Mail.

Both of the above make it very clear that it is not my fault that you claim not to have received the V5C document. I did post the V5C to your offices, and I am willing to sign an affidavit to that affect. I would like to point out that unless you can prove that I did not post the V5C then you do have no right to pursue this case any further.


Yours Sincerely"

Bellend.



I took this from a thread on Pistonheads, but I'd write the same thing.

Jonathan.

[The Mighty Elvi]

...more.

"Contrary to recent claims, there is no basis in statute for the DVLA to send acknowledgement letters or for motorists to chase the DVLA if they haven't received one. The DVLA has admitted this in correspondence.

The wording on the V5C is ambiguous, because it can be read that you should complain (on their expensive telephone number) if you receive a letter before four weeks have elapsed.

To take the legal arguments a step further:
1. The Universal Postal Union (of which Britain is a signatory) makes it clear that, in the UK, post becomes the property of the recipient at the moment it is committed to the Royal Mail.

2. The Interpretation Act 1997 s7 makes it clear that a document sent by first-class post is deemed served. If the sender has proof of posting (or a witness), the DVLA's letter of acknowledgement is a mere distraction.

If he has no proof, he can swear an affidavit that the V5 was completed and posted. Of the cases that have been challenged as above, I'm not aware of any the DVLA has taken as far as a magistrates' court.

PD, via email"

Daily Telegraph


Which should be read along with this from a JP.


"I hesitate to take issue with any of the wise words that appear in 'Expert Advice', but the V5 Document clearly states on page 9 that "DVLA will issue an acknowledgement letter confirming that the keeper has discharged liability.

If you have not received an acknowledgment letter after 4 weeks please contact DVLA." I would therefore take issue with your guidance that "notification" takes places when you post the letter.

The legal guidance, in the courts that I sit in is that the mere act of posting the V5 does not discharge the keeper's legal liability but is a mitigating factor in sentencing especially when proof of posting can be presented.

Asked on 1 May 2010 by "A Sussex JP", Horsham"


This is the reply...

"I disagree. This "legal guidance" you are listening to is purely for the convenience of the DVLA. If you are saying that the keeper of a car is "legally" responsible for the mistakes and negligence of duty of the DVLA in recording keepership changes then I think the Court of Human Rights would have something to say about that.

In English and Scottish law (and I cannot understand why a JP does not know this) "notification" takes place as soon as notice is posted. It does when a NIP is posted to a registered keeper. So it has to the other way round. As was upheld in my friend's case. The DVLA cannot make up 'law' that overrides the law of the land to hide its mistakes.

That said, if you send a V5C you should send it Special Delivery or get proof of posting from the Post Office. And I agree that to avoid any unpleasantness, if you have not received an acknowledgement within 28 days, you should phone DVLA on the number in the booklet that accompanies a V5C. Do this with a phone on an account that keeps a record of your calls."


http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/13938/magistrate-caught

[Bellend]

......and that's the reason I ask for legal advice here. Cheers, you're a ledgend.

I effing lol'd when I read Bellend though. 

[Deano2711]

What a load of tosh I am reading here.  Yes Sir I did sell the car and I did post the log book off......honest. What planet are you on ??  It is not the DVLA's responsibility to prove you did not send it as this is impossible !!!!!  However it is your responsibility to ensure that you change the details of a logbook. As I said earlier the DVLA very kindly send out a letter confirming that you are no longer the registered keeper. This has been in place for some time and if the said letter does not arrive then you should chase up the DVLA to ensure the details are changed. 
DVLA have every right to enforce a fine as they are a Government office and not a private company !!!!!!! 

[Ant1981]

What a load of tosh I am reading here.  Yes Sir I did sell the car and I did post the log book off......honest. What planet are you on ??  It is not the DVLA's responsibility to prove you did not send it as this is impossible !!!!!  However it is your responsibility to ensure that you change the details of a logbook.

Which he did.

DVLA have every right to enforce a fine as they are a Government office and not a private company !!!!!!! 

No they don't.

[Deano2711]

What a load of tosh I am reading here.  Yes Sir I did sell the car and I did post the log book off......honest. What planet are you on ??  It is not the DVLA's responsibility to prove you did not send it as this is impossible !!!!!  However it is your responsibility to ensure that you change the details of a logbook.

Which he did.

DVLA have every right to enforce a fine as they are a Government office and not a private company !!!!!!! 

No they don't.

Then why did he not question why the confirmation letter never arrived ??  How the hell can DVLA prove he never sent the letter ??  Sellers responsibility to see the procedure through till the end.

And the DVLA is a Government office and therefore has every right to enforce a fine. How do you come to the conclusion a Government office cannot fine someone for not complying with rules which are very clearly explained on the DVLA website ??

[Ant1981]

What a load of tosh I am reading here.  Yes Sir I did sell the car and I did post the log book off......honest. What planet are you on ??  It is not the DVLA's responsibility to prove you did not send it as this is impossible !!!!!  However it is your responsibility to ensure that you change the details of a logbook.

Which he did.

DVLA have every right to enforce a fine as they are a Government office and not a private company !!!!!!! 

No they don't.

Then why did he not question why the confirmation letter never arrived ??  How the hell can DVLA prove he never sent the letter ??  Sellers responsibility to see the procedure through till the end.

And the DVLA is a Government office and therefore has every right to enforce a fine. How do you come to the conclusion a Government office cannot fine someone for not complying with rules which are very clearly explained on the DVLA website ??

For the reasons outlined previously.

[Deano2711]

Read the what happens next section of the DVLA website.......this took me seconds to upload and has been live for years !!!!!!!!!!

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVehicle/RegisteringAVehicle/DG_4022311

[Deano2711]

Please tell me again why you believe a Government office cannot impose a fine on you ??