Benefits. for or against a cap?

[Kerrse]

Make everyone receiving benefits & not working do at least 30 hours volunteer work a week  

The problem is, if you ask them to volunteer...they won't.
Too much effort.

So, if you are fit and able, you will be given no benefits...but will be paid for doing community work - a sum, say equal to their 'benefits' plus modest travel costs.

And for those lazy scamming toe-rags on 'Invalidity/disability benefit' where their disablility if being bone idle...you get the square root of f**k all.
Nothing.
Nowt.

You contribute to society and society will provide you with a modest income to keep a roof over your heads and keep you off the poverty line...not the new car, nice house and £26k in hand outs you are used to.

I agree 100% 

[bob23]

I learnt work with my hands, I can do any type of fencing, studwork walls, roofing, repair cars, have built a private cinema, put another floor on a house, can build most things out of wood, learned how to train racing greyhounds not just look after them, can look after and breed chickens ducks geese turkeys pheasants  goats pigs sheep cows horses. can drive tractors properly and diggers, have an sia licence, I run my friends transport company for him doing all paperwork and invoicing and still can't get work easily.

Also a lot of manual work where I am is done by polish, I would happily work like they do but a lot of companies specify must be able to speak/read polish which means that I can't get a job there as I speak the language of my own country and am not an immigrant.

I worked from 03:00 yesterday morning finished at midnight for £35 quid, If you think I like trying to live on £92 per week your wrong.

Where do you live ?  Sounds bloody awful to be fair ! but i find blaming immigrants to be a tired excuse

I recently employed a hungarian on a temp basis & do you know why? No it was nothing to do with money we paid him the same rate we would anyone else the reason being he was easily the best candidate. The "english" people i interviewed were just unemployable either due to attitude or previous work history.

It turned out to the be the right choice he worked bloody hard learnt very quickly & the best bit never moaned about anything. I find to many people in this country think they deserve a living & are not willing to earn it.

I honestly wonder what the issue is if you have all those skills at your disposal.

Not blaming them, fair play to most of them as most do jobs that lazy Brits think is below them, it doesn't matter what the job is, if your out of work and can get a job you should take it.

[bob23]

Make them work in the communities, cleaning streets, tending to public gardens, woods, nature reserves, etc. Get them out the house, from the tv's, off their asses doing something.

give people enough to pay the bills and eat, not a set sum for everyone but look at what outgoings they have and let them earn it at say £3 per hour + travel costs for the cheapest form of transport if they need to travel. Even if it's Just going shopping for the elderly or some other menial task.

[R32UK]

Bobs.. lets not go into every single point here. As you CLEARLY already have all the answers to all your problems. I am wrong... you are right blah blah blah.

And just to answer you point about when did I work for £2.70ph.... well as stated earlier I worked for NOTHING. For you I could translate that to FREE!

You have no money but have a car, and obvioulsy an internet connection. My original post was aimed at giving you a kick start.. maybe trying to look at things from a different angle, rather than the usual old "no one will employ me", "there are no jobs" bull.

... Anyway its no skin off my back. I have money and a job. 

I also have worked for free, I am talking about work! A job! You know paid employment!!! And I thought I was brain dammaged, the reason you won't answer is because you never have.

My sis licence was paid for by someone at the jobcentre out of his own pocket, he also put in a word for me at a security company, I got a job, kept chasing it but they never started me, he helped me and still is trying to get me a job because he can see I want to work. My internet is included in my rent. You try emptying you bank account and living on £92 per week. Also work I do get I mostly need a car to get tools to work. And I actually get I bit of work most weeks £30/50 per week, so that's. Money I'm not taking in benefits.

Ok bob.. you are right I am wrong.

I have never worked for £2.77... but i did turn up everyday to a business I started for 9 months and did nothing but lose money despite working 14hrs per day. In fact at one point I was losing £700pw.... but I hung in there worked my arse off, and now finally seeing a very little reward for my efforts.

My point is that when I was losing money I tried to isolate the problem and address it... which is my whole point, and what I am suggesting you should do. Only you continue to miss it. 

[danny_p]

from the other side of the employment thing.

i think there would be more employment about if it wasen so much bloody crap associated with employing people, i have employed people in the past, i chould now quite easly find enough work to keep a few people busy but i find i'm better chargeing more for what i do and takeing less on.

my experiance of employing people is don't bother.   to much hasstel, stuff starts getting broke , more stuff goes missing, they cant be left to get on,  do f**king stupid thigs and try to sue you, ect ect ect.    in the end i decided that what they earnt me wasent worth it id rather have less hasstel and stress and work a bit longer. 

[bob23]

Bobs.. lets not go into every single point here. As you CLEARLY already have all the answers to all your problems. I am wrong... you are right blah blah blah.

And just to answer you point about when did I work for £2.70ph.... well as stated earlier I worked for NOTHING. For you I could translate that to FREE!

You have no money but have a car, and obvioulsy an internet connection. My original post was aimed at giving you a kick start.. maybe trying to look at things from a different angle, rather than the usual old "no one will employ me", "there are no jobs" bull.

... Anyway its no skin off my back. I have money and a job. 

I also have worked for free, I am talking about work! A job! You know paid employment!!! And I thought I was brain dammaged, the reason you won't answer is because you never have.

My sis licence was paid for by someone at the jobcentre out of his own pocket, he also put in a word for me at a security company, I got a job, kept chasing it but they never started me, he helped me and still is trying to get me a job because he can see I want to work. My internet is included in my rent. You try emptying you bank account and living on £92 per week. Also work I do get I mostly need a car to get tools to work. And I actually get I bit of work most weeks £30/50 per week, so that's. Money I'm not taking in benefits.

Ok bob.. you are right I am wrong.

I have never worked for £2.77... but i did turn up everyday to a business I started for 9 months and did nothing but lose money despite working 14hrs per day. In fact at one point I was losing £700pw.... but I hung in there worked my arse off, and now finally seeing a very little reward for my efforts.

My point is that when I was losing money I tried to isolate the problem and address it... which is my whole point, and what I am suggesting you should do. Only you continue to miss it. 

It's not about right and wrong, I'm not trying to prove you wrong, I'm trying to make the point that I will do any job I can get and work hard for little pay just to be in work, I don't complain and I get on with my work and do a good job even when other people would turn the work down, that I'm not one of the lazy cvnts that do nothing and expect to be kept forever more on benefits.

I'm not like the people who live next to where I used to work, there were 5 houses all part of the farm, all had workers in, 1 on disability and his wife off sick for years with depression, both claiming and working and all the others claiming jobseekers and all claiming housing benefit, all working, what makes it worse is they earn £200 per week, get the house rent free, don't even pay for utility's and still claim. 

I have worked today from 09:00 to 23:00 for £35 so I have now earned more this week than I get in benefits so will not get anything from jobseekers for this week, for the sake of earning £16 more than jobseekers I have worked 35 hours, now I could have sat at home and done nothing and would only be £16 worse off, the reason I do it is that it means that I haven't taken a hand out this week, the extra £16 means nothing for the 35 hours, wouldn't even cover my car insurance for 1 week, but knowing I earned the  money rather than being given it is important to me.

Anyway I had 19 missed calls while at work today, I called back when I finished work to find out who it was, it was the security company I am waiting to start with, what an intelligent phone call that was. usual hello's, "I had a load of missed call from you, I didn't know you'd be working this late"  "yeah someone in the office 24 hours, I was calling to let you know we are not going to be starting you for the relief work"  "oh ok why's that?"  "we have just had someone hand in their notice"  "ok? I'd have thought you would need relief cover even more now?"  "no we need to get his position filled asap"  "ok, then can I apply for that?"  "oh I'm so sorry, we want you to fill the position, I wasn't very clear there was I?"  "no, to be honest you weren't"

We carry on talking and checking my details, having a laugh, she then incorrectly corrects my spelling on my application form of the word, security, which as you can see I can spell, she says it's spelt, secuirty, after her having to check it agrees I was right, we end the call, 2 minutes later she calls back,

"can you do the relief as well?"  "you mean just do extra shifts?"  "no, be dedicated relief as well, you'd have 2 separate jobs with us"  " you mean 2 tax codes and 2 different wage packets?"  "yeah"  "that's not even possible is it? surely I can only hold one position within the company?"  "I don't really know, we've never asked anyone to before"  "days or nights?" "nights"  "well how can I do that? if I'm working full time on a 4 on 4 off shift, how can I cover if someone doesn't turn up for work/calls in sick if it's a night I'm already working?"  "oh you can't can you?"  "no, I haven't quite mastered being in 2 places miles apart at the same time yet."

 "ok, well what if we change the day relief officer to nights and get you to cover days?"  "so if I have to cover a day shift while I'm working my 4 nights on, I'll go to work get there at 19:00 finish at 07:00 have to be at another site that could be 25 miles away instantly, work until 19:00 then get back to the first site instantly and work until 07:00 so I'll have done a 36 hour shift?"  "yeah"  "well what if I have to cover 2/3 day shifts while working my nights?"  "then you'll have to work a 60 or 84 hour shift"  "with no sleep? why not just hire a relief officer?"  "we will but we only recruit every couple of months and make a day of it for all the jobs we have not just one, so will you do it?"  "yeah ok"

So I have my induction day Monday, training the rest of the week, then the following Monday I start full time.

Having heard the conversation I had just had the bloke I was working for said "I'm only having you here and there for so little money while you get the hang of it, I will have you full time on better money when you have got the hang of it" yeah right, more like you could get me to work for peanuts, saw I work hard and don't complain and now I have a job you don't want me to go. so he offers me the same money, £250 per week, to work 6 days on 1 off and do more hours per week, also the security is £250 after tax and NI this bloke would just be £250 cash in hand, "you want me working 60 hours per week full time pay minimum wage and put me on the cards!"  "oh no I couldn't pay that much"  so I managed to get him to agree to £50 per day and I'll work 2 of my 4 days off, so now I'm over the moon.   

[dTEA]

If you give them Nowt you have to remove the kids due to neglect. That will be minimum of £52000 a year for a foster care placement more for residential. 

And childcare for nursery used to be free. Not talking about after school clubs but the chance to get people back in work ASAP after child birth. Without penalising them. If we had a cra4p work ethic £150 extra for workin full time ain't exactly an incentive

[R32UK]

It's not about right and wrong, I'm not trying to prove you wrong, I'm trying to make the point that I will do any job I can get and work hard for little pay just to be in work, I don't complain and I get on with my work and do a good job even when other people would turn the work down, that I'm not one of the lazy cvnts that do nothing and expect to be kept forever more on benefits.

I'm not like the people who live next to where I used to work, there were 5 houses all part of the farm, all had workers in, 1 on disability and his wife off sick for years with depression, both claiming and working and all the others claiming jobseekers and all claiming housing benefit, all working, what makes it worse is they earn £200 per week, get the house rent free, don't even pay for utility's and still claim. 

I have worked today from 09:00 to 23:00 for £35 so I have now earned more this week than I get in benefits so will not get anything from jobseekers for this week, for the sake of earning £16 more than jobseekers I have worked 35 hours, now I could have sat at home and done nothing and would only be £16 worse off, the reason I do it is that it means that I haven't taken a hand out this week, the extra £16 means nothing for the 35 hours, wouldn't even cover my car insurance for 1 week, but knowing I earned the  money rather than being given it is important to me.

Anyway I had 19 missed calls while at work today, I called back when I finished work to find out who it was, it was the security company I am waiting to start with, what an intelligent phone call that was. usual hello's, "I had a load of missed call from you, I didn't know you'd be working this late"  "yeah someone in the office 24 hours, I was calling to let you know we are not going to be starting you for the relief work"  "oh ok why's that?"  "we have just had someone hand in their notice"  "ok? I'd have thought you would need relief cover even more now?"  "no we need to get his position filled asap"  "ok, then can I apply for that?"  "oh I'm so sorry, we want you to fill the position, I wasn't very clear there was I?"  "no, to be honest you weren't"

We carry on talking and checking my details, having a laugh, she then incorrectly corrects my spelling on my application form of the word, security, which as you can see I can spell, she says it's spelt, secuirty, after her having to check it agrees I was right, we end the call, 2 minutes later she calls back,

"can you do the relief as well?"  "you mean just do extra shifts?"  "no, be dedicated relief as well, you'd have 2 separate jobs with us"  " you mean 2 tax codes and 2 different wage packets?"  "yeah"  "that's not even possible is it? surely I can only hold one position within the company?"  "I don't really know, we've never asked anyone to before"  "days or nights?" "nights"  "well how can I do that? if I'm working full time on a 4 on 4 off shift, how can I cover if someone doesn't turn up for work/calls in sick if it's a night I'm already working?"  "oh you can't can you?"  "no, I haven't quite mastered being in 2 places miles apart at the same time yet."

 "ok, well what if we change the day relief officer to nights and get you to cover days?"  "so if I have to cover a day shift while I'm working my 4 nights on, I'll go to work get there at 19:00 finish at 07:00 have to be at another site that could be 25 miles away instantly, work until 19:00 then get back to the first site instantly and work until 07:00 so I'll have done a 36 hour shift?"  "yeah"  "well what if I have to cover 2/3 day shifts while working my nights?"  "then you'll have to work a 60 or 84 hour shift"  "with no sleep? why not just hire a relief officer?"  "we will but we only recruit every couple of months and make a day of it for all the jobs we have not just one, so will you do it?"  "yeah ok"

So I have my induction day Monday, training the rest of the week, then the following Monday I start full time.

Having heard the conversation I had just had the bloke I was working for said "I'm only having you here and there for so little money while you get the hang of it, I will have you full time on better money when you have got the hang of it" yeah right, more like you could get me to work for peanuts, saw I work hard and don't complain and now I have a job you don't want me to go. so he offers me the same money, £250 per week, to work 6 days on 1 off and do more hours per week, also the security is £250 after tax and NI this bloke would just be £250 cash in hand, "you want me working 60 hours per week full time pay minimum wage and put me on the cards!"  "oh no I couldn't pay that much"  so I managed to get him to agree to £50 per day and I'll work 2 of my 4 days off, so now I'm over the moon.   

Good job... glad for you! 

Make sure you put as much effort into your jobs as you do your forum posts and you should be just fine 

[golf-sib]

If you give them Nowt you have to remove the kids due to neglect. That will be minimum of £52000 a year for a foster care placement more for residential. 

And childcare for nursery used to be free. Not talking about after school clubs but the chance to get people back in work ASAP after child birth. Without penalising them. If we had a cra4p work ethic £150 extra for workin full time ain't exactly an incentive

Well its like the oldies that go to retirement homes, its cheaper to send them on a cruise then it is to keep the entire system functioning the way it is...... However I think saga have noticed this and it is why they have expanded into cruises 

[dTEA]