Andy's mk4 votex 1.8 Turbo

[andyj775]

the DEPO's-



and i've changed my mind again and am now settled on the k04 plan! a lot more common than the gt28 so i'm hoping that if i have any issues there will be answers on the net. plus 250-270bhp will be more than enough through the front wheels, and slightly less time for the turbo to kick in. i read somewhere that the k04 flange to exhaust manifold is very restrictive, so i will have to do some research on this and see if theres any alternative manifold available.

so, the list-
(if anyone has any advice or better suggestions please feel free to reply)


k04 turbo (022 or 023? any real difference?)
audi TT 225 manifold (or a better one if there is one)
k04 oil lines x2
k04 water hoses x2
genesis 380cc injectors (can you use leon cupra r ones?)
audi tt silicone TIP
Audi TT 225 maf - 3 inch
cone filter - 3 inch
NGK BKR7E Plugs

then various bolts and gaskets (hoping these will be available from audi)

and finally get the car trailered up to the fabricators to get downpipe modified and intercooler pipework.

anything i've missed? i already have a corrado g60 flywheel and vr6 clutch, 2.5 inch system and soon to have front mount intercooler. also speaking to a guy about r32 brakes. just want all the bases covered before buying the bits!

[Wayne]

Looks really mean

[dom]

Looks great!

[golf-sib]

Why not stick to the standard 2.5" maf and let the tuners line it up with your injectors?

Also what about a new k04-001 turbo (21psi limit) which is a direct bolt on, this way you will keep everything in the engine bay the same and will not have to mess around with using a more restrictive k04 1.8T manifold?

Or have a look at hybrid options, I know you can get the k03 to perform like a k04-001 for nearly the same price as the new turbo... will have to look up what the costs for gains are so take that with a pinch of salt.

As for the brake topic don't forget to consider upgrading the lines, the improvement you get with just the lines and higher boiling point fluid is quite considerable especially if you want to get the most out of the setup you have or plan to have. Also good tires are a must, your brakes are as good as your tires and they are the only things that keep you on the road.

Considered doing anything to the chassis as well as power is nothing if it cannot be utilized, uprate dogbone to r32 or powerflex. Bush upgrade. Struts. Coilovers, even cheap JOM and FK AK coilovers are a huge improvement over the stock system.

Also FMIC system, how far will you go with tuning will it end at 260bhp or will you decide to go crazy or are you able to limit yourself? This will help you decide on the pipework diameter. I know around the 300bhp mark 2.5" pipes become ideal, 260bhp "2 will still do. The FMIC is not easy to fit due to the limited space behind the bumper so you may want to consider r32 bumper as well depending on how you go about doing things.

Just idea's that may be worth food for thought

[andyj775]

Why not stick to the standard 2.5" maf and let the tuners line it up with your injectors?

Also what about a new k04-001 turbo (21psi limit) which is a direct bolt on, this way you will keep everything in the engine bay the same and will not have to mess around with using a more restrictive k04 1.8T manifold?

Or have a look at hybrid options, I know you can get the k03 to perform like a k04-001 for nearly the same price as the new turbo... will have to look up what the costs for gains are so take that with a pinch of salt.

As for the brake topic don't forget to consider upgrading the lines, the improvement you get with just the lines and higher boiling point fluid is quite considerable especially if you want to get the most out of the setup you have or plan to have. Also good tires are a must, your brakes are as good as your tires and they are the only things that keep you on the road.

Considered doing anything to the chassis as well as power is nothing if it cannot be utilized, uprate dogbone to r32 or powerflex. Bush upgrade. Struts. Coilovers, even cheap JOM and FK AK coilovers are a huge improvement over the stock system.

Also FMIC system, how far will you go with tuning will it end at 260bhp or will you decide to go crazy or are you able to limit yourself? This will help you decide on the pipework diameter. I know around the 300bhp mark 2.5" pipes become ideal, 260bhp "2 will still do. The FMIC is not easy to fit due to the limited space behind the bumper so you may want to consider r32 bumper as well depending on how you go about doing things.

Just idea's that may be worth food for thought

thanks for the opinions.

id put the 3 inch MAF on the list as its what is used on the TT's , and also when buying the k04 intake pipe it would be 3 inches at that end i assume.

ive looked into the turbo's again and again and i've settled on the K04-022/023. as i understand, putting the k04-001 on wouldnt see much of a gain over a k03s, and i've found a manifold that will be suitable to use now, think its JBS.

with the brakes, do you mean the lines in the arch, or do you mean the complete lines underneath the car? yes would definitely be up for upgrading them, thanks for the idea.

ive got a superpro dogbone bush, got TT wishbone bushes and FK coilovers with TT topmounts on already and it has firmed it up nicely. it has highlighted a bit of an issue though, the engine mount above the gearbox has a lot of play in it, so nearer the time of the car being in bits i will look for new mounts or alternatives.

as for the FMIC, i've just been out today doing a bit of measuring, and it seems the pipe from intercooler to throttle body is 2.5 inch. as for intercooler to turbo, outlet off the cooler is 2.5 inch, but was unable to get to where the pancake pipe meets the rubber pipe so does anyone know if this is 2.5 inch aswell? if so then it makes sense to stick with 2.5 diameter. and yes whatever power i get after doing this, i wont be going for any more. a useable 260bhp will be more than enough for me, and will be concentrating more on ways to get the power down.

it cooks your head looking at page upon page of peoples conversions and how they went about them, so thanks again for the advice/opinions 

[golf-sib]

Though the k04-023 was the one to go for as it was better in design for performance, not sure how though...

Between the TB and turbo on the 1.8T its a mess TBH... TB is 2.5" as you said, but before the TB it reduces back to 2" and then... its already making me cry.

Basically; Turbo outlet: 2.0"
Pancake Inlet: 2.25"
Pancake outlet: 2.5" (don't quot me on this end)
SMIC Inlet: 2.5"
SMIC outlet: 2.5"
Between TB it drops back to 2.0"
TB: 2.5"

Thats from memory as I made a pancake by-pass a very long time ago... from the design of the system it does maintain a more or less solid 2" design. To me it seems like the pancake has an increased size due to it being restrictive. And the SMIC has a huge core and diameter for a simple reason that the air also takes a bend inside, again its an assumption, but I cannot see why they would otherwise increase the diameter to drop down again.

Another thing to consider is not to run the pipework the same way the standard car does, I'm not sure if you noticed but where the pancake and SMIC piping is, it is easily caught and rubs especially on a lowered car. I'm sure the PD engines ran a pipe between the coolant box and the cambelt, that may be an idea. Then you could always take the pipework round the other way to the passenger side and just go over the gearbox linkage.

With the brake line kits I think I went C&R with a goodridge setup, they do hoses for the front, hoses for the back and they also do replacement copper piping for the mid-to-rear section of the car. You can buy it all together or in bits they are quite flexible and offer a good service from my experience.

[andyj775]

Though the k04-023 was the one to go for as it was better in design for performance, not sure how though...

Between the TB and turbo on the 1.8T its a mess TBH... TB is 2.5" as you said, but before the TB it reduces back to 2" and then... its already making me cry.

Basically; Turbo outlet: 2.0"
Pancake Inlet: 2.25"
Pancake outlet: 2.5" (don't quot me on this end)
SMIC Inlet: 2.5"
SMIC outlet: 2.5"
Between TB it drops back to 2.0"
TB: 2.5"

Thats from memory as I made a pancake by-pass a very long time ago... from the design of the system it does maintain a more or less solid 2" design. To me it seems like the pancake has an increased size due to it being restrictive. And the SMIC has a huge core and diameter for a simple reason that the air also takes a bend inside, again its an assumption, but I cannot see why they would otherwise increase the diameter to drop down again.

Another thing to consider is not to run the pipework the same way the standard car does, I'm not sure if you noticed but where the pancake and SMIC piping is, it is easily caught and rubs especially on a lowered car. I'm sure the PD engines ran a pipe between the coolant box and the cambelt, that may be an idea. Then you could always take the pipework round the other way to the passenger side and just go over the gearbox linkage.

With the brake line kits I think I went C&R with a goodridge setup, they do hoses for the front, hoses for the back and they also do replacement copper piping for the mid-to-rear section of the car. You can buy it all together or in bits they are quite flexible and offer a good service from my experience.

with the intercooler, the guys basically said if i get cooler, a few couplings and clips then they will make the pipework for it. this is the reason for all my measuring today. argh intercooler...another issue! theres an intercooler on ebay which is only slightly bigger than the forge, with the outlets both on drivers side. i was all set for getting this when funds allowed for it, but when i went on before to double check the dimensions, the company no longer sells them! it had 3 inch outlets, which would have needed 2 reducers straight away, but was brand new and £100, and with the samco's and clips would have still been under £200. dont get me wrong i look at the forge kit and see everything fitting perfectly and it did appeal to me, but i just see 600 as a lot to pay. as for pipework route, i really need to look at the original hose to turbo route (from pancake pipe). i love the look of the S3 pipework neatly running up the drivers side then round the back, if i could replicate this in some way id be more than happy to do it. if anyone has a good rear view of the pancake pipe to turbo assembly it'd be a great help.

in an ideal situation, id mount the intercooler to the crash bar at home, iv got a mate who can weld some L brackets for me. then do all the chopping and shaving to get the bumper to fit right, then go to the fabricators with a bag of couplings and clips (by the sound of it i may need reducers too now) then rid the car of the SMIC and let the guy work his magic.

with your pancake bypass did you do all the way to the turbo? or to the red original pipe? got any pics?

in my head its like this at the moment:

intercooler to throttle body

reducer on IC (3inch to 2.5), 2.5 inch pipe shaped the same as original hose, then 2.5 coupling to throttle body

intercooler to turbo

reducer on IC (3inch to 2.5), 2.5 inch pipe into engine bay, 1 coupling low down, then pipework straight up and try and replicate the S3's position to around the rear of the engine, but from then onwards is where i need help as i haven't got a clue what goes on behind there! also are you able to buy aluminium flanges for any sensors in the piping? sorry for all the questions i just want to make this the best i can without buying any wrong bits!

thanks for the info on the lines, will look into it when my brain recovers!

andy

[golf-sib]

With brake hoses head goodridge, as I tried two different suppliers off blackdiamond hoses and each time the hoses had the wrong connectors for the brakes, they had mk3 ends  All good if I had a sail and a paddle but unfortunately I have a mk4.

Here's there website: http://www.candrenterprises.co.uk/
They also have a ebay shop with the kit for the mk4: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-Golf-4-Mk4-Goodridge-Brake-Lines-6-/110683092419?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item19c539f5c3

I know the FMIC you are talking about, as a member recently bought one in the mk4 section and was told it was a forge one, which it wasn't and he wanted some advice on it. Might be worth seeing if he may sell it on to you depending if he still wants to go ahead and fit it or not, no harm in asking. Cannot remember for the life off me what the post was though or the persons name.

Also the sensor question, forge will do the pipe in the diameter you need with the flange for the sensor. Thought they had it on there shop otherwise give them a call. http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=260301TUN&product=FMMAPT

As for the pancake pipe it was literally to replace the pancake no further, from memory out the turbo the metal pipe you see at the back of the engine is joined to the turbo via a silicone joint. Then it goes down and the link between the pancake and that pipe is connected by a stretch of silicone.


Brackets don't need to be mega reinforced aluminum ones will do rather than going OTT and welding

A place near me does custom pipework as they have pipe benders and hydraulic beading tools. if I supplied the IC then to fit and get it all done it would off only been £200 which is not a bad price. It would off been completely done in stainless steel, they would of also mounted and done the brackets to the FMIC etc all with 2" pipework with the way I wanted it run... But I decided to go DIY and got a A4 1.8T aftermarket FMIC and ordered some aluminum pipes and did it myself, it didn't work out that much cheaper as I had to order a beading tool in the process which ran the cost close to what they would of charged. But it benefited me in it was done to the way I wanted and to the standard I wanted as I also heat wrapped all the pipes in the process.

[andyj775]

With brake hoses head goodridge, as I tried two different suppliers off blackdiamond hoses and each time the hoses had the wrong connectors for the brakes, they had mk3 ends  All good if I had a sail and a paddle but unfortunately I have a mk4.

Here's there website: http://www.candrenterprises.co.uk/
They also have a ebay shop with the kit for the mk4: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-Golf-4-Mk4-Goodridge-Brake-Lines-6-/110683092419?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item19c539f5c3

I know the FMIC you are talking about, as a member recently bought one in the mk4 section and was told it was a forge one, which it wasn't and he wanted some advice on it. Might be worth seeing if he may sell it on to you depending if he still wants to go ahead and fit it or not, no harm in asking. Cannot remember for the life off me what the post was though or the persons name.

Also the sensor question, forge will do the pipe in the diameter you need with the flange for the sensor. Thought they had it on there shop otherwise give them a call. http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=260301TUN&product=FMMAPT

As for the pancake pipe it was literally to replace the pancake no further, from memory out the turbo the metal pipe you see at the back of the engine is joined to the turbo via a silicone joint. Then it goes down and the link between the pancake and that pipe is connected by a stretch of silicone.


Brackets don't need to be mega reinforced aluminum ones will do rather than going OTT and welding

A place near me does custom pipework as they have pipe benders and hydraulic beading tools. if I supplied the IC then to fit and get it all done it would off only been £200 which is not a bad price. It would off been completely done in stainless steel, they would of also mounted and done the brackets to the FMIC etc all with 2" pipework with the way I wanted it run... But I decided to go DIY and got a A4 1.8T aftermarket FMIC and ordered some aluminum pipes and did it myself, it didn't work out that much cheaper as I had to order a beading tool in the process which ran the cost close to what they would of charged. But it benefited me in it was done to the way I wanted and to the standard I wanted as I also heat wrapped all the pipes in the process.

ive saved the brake hose kit in my watch list, cheers for that!

thanks also for the heads up about forge having the flange, and i think ive got a rough idea of the route to turbo now.

pancake > silicon pipe > metal charge pipe which goes up the back of the engine and then downwards then silicon to turbo. if thats the case then i cant see a major issue with taking the new route (similar to the S3 route). the charge pipe has 2 outlets (to dump valve i think) but im sure the guy can incorporate them into my new pipework. time will tell anyway, learning as i go here but want to do as much as i can by myself. id love to do the pipework myself but im thinking that putting elbows instead of a bend in the pipe is just creating a weak spot in the system. end result must of been satisfying though, and them clamps you've used are the sort i want. are they mikalor? pancake replacement looks spot on     

[golf-sib]

I'll take a picture of what I did with the DV... I relocated it the same way the forge kit does just for a fraction off the cost. The forge kit puts the DV just before the TB. This ensures when it opens the air recirculated is air that has been cooled off by the aftercooler (intercooler). Where it sits stock the air recirculated is actually warmer as the turbo warms air up due to its function of how it produces the boost, which is why cars have intercoolers to cool it back down.

Also remember you need a split in the the charge pipe just after the turbo, the stock system already has this, think its a 8mm split off which then runs a vacuum pipe to the n75.

I just reused the standard charge pipe, chopped the T section I needed and beaded it as so:


You could also take the piping round the passengers side as well and over the gear link, make sure its high enough not to interfere with the linkages movement if you do go this way.