Author Topic: Starting trouble - won't start!  (Read 3806 times)

Offline Ryan S

  • GTI forum regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 112
Starting trouble - won't start!
« on: 28 August 2003, 10:59 »
Hello all,

I have a 1980 mark one scirocco (1600 injection), and presently it is causing me a few headaches.
Basically it wont start.
I have fuel in the tank (!) and a spark.  Engine will turn over & the battery seems fine.
Now then, after doing some homework, talking to friends and reading up on various forums, I have the feeling the problem may lie with the fuel pump.
First question - when I turn the ignition on there is no humming noise from the fuel pump, as there is on my mark 2 golf Gti. Should there be?
Fuel pump fuse (or should that be relay?) its the square type located above the smaller fuses in the fuse box.  To remove this, do I just pull it out? I only ask because I dont want to break my fuse box by pulling it to pieces!  I have tried to take it out but it seems stuck fast is there a clip or something to undo, or a special way of removing it? Or should it just pull out with a bit more force?

If I replace the fuse/relay and it still makes no difference would the next step be replacing the fuel pump itself?

Also any other thoughts on what may be the trouble would be gratefully received - in case I'm totally barking up the wrong tree!

Thanks for any advice in advance,

Cheers,
Ryan.
« Last Edit: 28 August 2003, 11:21 by Ryan S »

Offline Dean

  • Not said much yet
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re:Starting trouble - won't start!
« Reply #1 on: 28 August 2003, 11:25 »
The fuse box should be removable, so try to remove the fuse box to get at the relays/fuses.

Second check the cylinders for fuel, no fuel in the cylinders no fuel to ignite.

Third have you had the HT leads off, if so are they on the correct cylinder dizzy cap connection. Is your rota arm OK? is the dizzy cap OK? Is your lead from your coil to dizzy connected OK, are all connections on the coil OK?

Hope this points you in the right direction.

Regards.

Dean.
« Last Edit: 28 August 2003, 11:26 by Dean »
I am just a mere pawn in the great game of LIFE!

Offline Ryan S

  • GTI forum regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 112
Re:Starting trouble - won't start!
« Reply #2 on: 28 August 2003, 11:43 »
Thanks Dean,

I have had the HT leads off - but only one at a time - incase I did mix them up!  :P - But I will check again...

I'll check the other stuff too - but I think it's ok...

Thanks again,

Ryan.

Offline richandhazel

  • Global Moderator
  • Forum addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,464
Re:Starting trouble - won't start!
« Reply #3 on: 28 August 2003, 11:49 »
Pump should definately run for 2 seconds as soon as you switch the ignition on.

Relay is the first thing to go for. It should just pull out, however they can be stiff. On the Mk1 Golf's the fuse/relay box can be prone to water damage.........hope its not that.

Once the relay is out, I would bypass the relay, put it in test mode and carry out the following that I have just cut from the workshop manual:-

"Unless the fuel pump relay receives an rpm signal from the ignition system indicating that the engine is running, the fuel pump will operate for only a few seconds when the ignition is on. To power the fuel pump for testing without the engine running, the relay must be bypassed.

To bypass the fuel pump relay, remove it and substitute a remote switch, such as Volkswagen special tool no. US 4480/3 (order no. TU4 480 003 25 ZEL), or a jumper wire between two sockets on the fuse/relay panel. The correct sockets are the two largest ones located perpendicular to each other and corresponding to relay terminals 30 (battery voltage) and 87 (output to fuel pumps)."

" NOTE-

A home-made jumper wire should be at least 1.5 mm (16 ga.) wire and, for safety, should include an in-line fuse holder with a 20 amp fuse. To avoid damaging the relay sockets with frequent connections, the jumper wire should also include a toggle switch for switching on and off."
 
With the ignition off and the fuel pump relay removed, use the jumper (toggle switch off) to bridge the sockets in the fuse/relay panel. Turn on the toggle switch to operate the fuel pump. If the fuel pump does not run except when the jumper is connected, the relay or relay wiring is faulty. If the pump does not run with the jumper in place of the relay, the fault could be in the fuel pump or the electrical wiring to the fuel pump.


Good luck.

Offline Ryan S

  • GTI forum regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 112
Re:Starting trouble - won't start!
« Reply #4 on: 28 August 2003, 12:12 »
 :)
Cheers Rich

Is it necessary to use the VW tool thing - or can I get a similar jumper tool from Halfords or somewhere?

And if the relay is at fault - how much will a new one be?

Offline richandhazel

  • Global Moderator
  • Forum addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,464
Re:Starting trouble - won't start!
« Reply #5 on: 28 August 2003, 12:43 »
To be honest, in the past, I've just used a bit of wire as a jumper. Probably a good idea to use a fuse in the wire if you have one........but I don't usually bother.
Relays are cheap:-

93590 FUEL INJECTION PUMP RELAY  SC 1.6 F.Inj >7/82  ?14.50

.........from GSF

Offline Ryan S

  • GTI forum regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 112
Re:Starting trouble - won't start!
« Reply #6 on: 28 August 2003, 13:13 »
That's what I thought  ;)

Hope it's the relay then...

golfvr6

  • Guest
Re:Starting trouble - won't start!
« Reply #7 on: 28 August 2003, 14:16 »
Does sound like the relay or the pump , as the pump should hum for a couple of seconds. Another common problem on these older engines is leaking injectors, so when you try and start it , it ends up flooding.

Offline Ryan S

  • GTI forum regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 112
Re:Starting trouble - won't start!
« Reply #8 on: 29 August 2003, 21:22 »
 ::)
Well I've sorted it...

And now feel very silly.

I was trying to take out the wrong relay!  :o

Mine is the one with a fuse on top, and guess what?
Fuse was knocked out of alignment and therefore not making contact to complete the circuit!

Started first time!
 :P
Whoops.

Thanks for all your input everyone...

Ryan
« Last Edit: 29 August 2003, 21:23 by Ryan S »

golfvr6

  • Guest
Re:Starting trouble - won't start!
« Reply #9 on: 03 September 2003, 20:17 »
Nice one  ;D ;D ;D