Dynaudio - I was wrong!

[am1w]

Dynaudio speakers due to there large voice coils take a pit of power before they start to come on song. They can also take around 30 hours before they settle in and are also known for their very laid back sound which often does not suit some people idea of sound quality. 

Exactly.

Most L/Ss need running in. Large voice coils on Dynaudio speakers (huge dust caps) require more power. The 'plastic' coned, large voice coiled Dynaudios are less effecient than the paper coned drivers. Sometimes not a good thing as it can effect transient response. I like the sound of paper coned drivers for bass and lower mid-range.
Also, some people prefer the sound of fabric domed tweeters to metal domed ones. The BBC mainly uses fabric domed tweeters in their monitors from what I remember.

Oh, lastly:

The lighter paper coned drivers and fabric domed tweeters are usually of lower mass and hence store less energy. Therefore, more energy is transmitted as sound without the need for more powerful amplifiers. The system is much more effecient and more fleet of foot.

Cars with cloth upholstery have a better acoustic environment than those with leather which can be over reflective and 'bright'. Also, a laid back sound in a car is not always a good thing.

[am1w]

so let me get this right, that big ass thread about the rcd310 etc being better than the rns510 for sound etc wasnt actually because the rcd310 was better, it was because you numpties dont know how to setup your sh!t correctly ? 

King Kev Numpty: My RCD310 does sound better than all RNS510s, except for my RNS510 and  then only just.

[am1w]

The Dynaudio System - 75 Watts x 4 = Total 300 Watts
The Standard System - 20 Watts x 4 = Total 80 Watts

2 x Power is a 3 dB increase in SOUND PRESSURE LEVEL (SPL)
4 x Power is a 6 dB increase in SOUND PRESSURE LEVEL (SPL)
8 x Power is a 9 dB increase in SOUND PRESSURE LEVEL (SPL)
.... and so on.

Therefore, a doubling of power produces a 3 dB increase in SPL. A 2dB to 3 dB increase in SPL is just about a noticable change in loudness to the human ear.

A 10 dB increase in SPL is subjectively twice the loudness.

So in order for a system to sound twice as loud subjectively, more than 8 times the power is required
This is because the scale we are dealing with is Logrithmic and not Linear.

The Dynaudio System theoretically provides, approximately, a 5 dB increase in SPL over the Standard System, having just below 4 times the total power of the Standard System.

(So, in this case, for a two fold increase in loudness over the Standard System the approximate power required would have to be 4 x 175 Watts = 700 Watts).

However, the extra power is needed to drive the more ineffecient Dynaudio loudspeakers. So subjectively it may just go very slightly louder, if that. The sound is probably a bit more laid back, this being a characterestic of Dynaudio speakers. Whether this is a good thing in a noisy environment like a car is a matter of opinion. It is for this reason that some users probably increase the mid and treble levels to counteract this laid back (some call this neutral) effect. I personally did not like the sound, it being a bit lethargic in its delivery of transients and so consider it to be a waste of money.

The difference in tonal balance and transient delivery are the main differences between the two systems. The standard system probably sounds faster, whereas the Dynaudio system sounds more neutral. I know which I prefer in a car.

[mac7]

Interesting topic this, which I've never properly looked into. I tend to buy what I like the sound of without really understanding why I like it. Got some questions which I suppose I should really know the answers to but don't.

Does the term 'transients' refer to short, sharp notes/sounds?
Does 'laid back' relate to higher frequencies being more subdued?
Can you help me out with what 'faster' means?

I've often found systems (both in-car and home) that have been set up by others to be too harsh and need the mid/treble easing back. It is rare that I've had to adjust treble up on car systems to suit my ears and from what you've said I'm guessing this is why I like the Dynaudio. Out of interest, would this fit with my preference for B&W and Arcam equipment at home?

[am1w]

Interesting topic this, which I've never properly looked into. I tend to buy what I like the sound of without really understanding why I like it. Got some questions which I suppose I should really know the answers to but don't.
Does the term 'transients' refer to short, sharp notes/sounds?
Does 'laid back' relate to higher frequencies being more subdued?
Can you help me out with what 'faster' means?
I've often found systems (both in-car and home) that have been set up by others to be too harsh and need the mid/treble easing back. It is rare that I've had to adjust treble up on car systems to suit my ears and from what you've said I'm guessing this is why I like the Dynaudio. Out of interest, would this fit with my preference for B&W and Arcam equipment at home?

Transient note is short in duration - opposite of a continuous note. A transient note could be at any frequency.

Faster sound - A very audiophile-speak term. Refers to the reaction of the system and generally defines a more exciting sound. Means a system is good at reproducing transients.

Laid back sound - opposite to forward sounding - Mainly relates to how loudspeakers are balanced especially in the midrange (speech frequencies). Too much output in the mid frequencies in comparison to lower and high frequencies gives a very forward sounding system which many consider lacks neutarlity. Naim loudspeakers are more forward sounding tham B&W/Dynaudio loudspeakers. ARCAM equipment is also quite neutral sounding and reproduces Classical Music beautifully. I have the complete Boothroyd-Stuart Meridian active system with the Pink Triangle Turntable and SME Series V arm.

Yes, I agree with you that many people like very forward sounding systems with screeching treble and massively boomy bass. For home use, I am very much into a more laid back midrange especially for classical music. I feel that this gives a more expansive sound-stage.

In the car, I have both midrange and treble turned down by 2 notches and the bass turned up by 1 to 2 notches. This is with standard loudspeakers in the GTi and the RNS510. This balance is excellent on very good Classical recordings and live concert broadcasts on Radio 3.

When I heard the Dynaudio, I felt it was slightly laid back and I would probably turn the mid and treble up one or two notches. For the two short durations I have head the Dynaudio, I did feel the overall sound was a bit 'slow', thereby lacking attack and excitement. All very subjective.

One man's meat is another man's poison.
   

[Snoopy]

What is described as laid back sound can also be caused by even order harmonic distortion due to the design.

[am1w]

What is described as laid back sound can also be caused by even order harmonic distortion due to the design.

Valve amplifiers produce more of this.
Also, the human ear, due to the resonance characterestics of the External Auditory Meatus (ear canal), which is a quarter wavelength tube (closed at one end and open at the other end), is more susceptible to odd harmonic distortion than even harmonic distortion.
All ties up.

[Snoopy]

Stick a dynaudio driver on a Klippel tester and you can see the pleasing distortion 

[am1w]

Stick a dynaudio driver on a kippler tester and you can see the pleasing distortion 

+1.

[Snoopy]

Klippel even DOH!