Author Topic: Clutch/Gearbox issue GTD Manual  (Read 23508 times)

Offline am1w

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Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue GTD Manual
« Reply #80 on: 28 June 2010, 20:42 »
Had the second phone call in response to the second letter I wrote, it basically went like this:
VW call centre lady: P**S OFF
Not impressed, gonna phone dealer tomorrow to see what price he will give me for a buy back.  :cry:
If thats not good enough then the third letter will be to the head office and requesting a formal rejection and I will go from there.

It's all such a waste of time and energy. I do hope it works out for you.
RED TORNADO 7R, 5 DR, DSG, DCC, DNS, DYNAUDIO, KI, WP, HBA, LN, SP

Offline mac7

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Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue GTD Manual
« Reply #81 on: 28 June 2010, 21:27 »
I've been following this thread and just wanted to comment. In my experience of VW diesels this is sound is normal. I'm not saying whether it's right that a £24000 car should do it or that you shouldn't pursue it with VW, but it isn't an issue to the function of the drive train.

From my personal point of view the hideous rumbling noise of the diesel engine would be more of an issue.  :lipsrsealed:

I'm also going to say that the Boron Silk products are of no benefit, even though am1w swears by them. They can offer no additional benefits beyond the standard gear oil.
Golf R

Offline ajmoir36

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Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue GTD Manual
« Reply #82 on: 28 June 2010, 21:37 »
I've been following this thread and just wanted to comment. In my experience of VW diesels this is sound is normal. I'm not saying whether it's right that a £24000 car should do it or that you shouldn't pursue it with VW, but it isn't an issue to the function of the drive train.

From my personal point of view the hideous rumbling noise of the diesel engine would be more of an issue.  :lipsrsealed:

I'm also going to say that the Boron Silk products are of no benefit, even though am1w swears by them. They can offer no additional benefits beyond the standard gear oil.

The new CR engine doesn't really have the rumble/or tractor rattle like my mk5 140tdi.  But my mk5 didn't have the gearbox whirr that my CR engine has.  The thing that really bugs me is it doesn't exist when cold, yet appears when warm.  Which is why I noticed it.
What annoys me more is that VW just don't give a s**t.
Characteristic of the car.
VW technical say its not an issue.
VW will always help out with the cost if the gearbox if it were to fail outside if its warrenty.
(well that fills me with confidence if they will pick up half the cost of the gearbox when it probably costs £3000-4000 at a guess.)
If it rattles now, what will it sound like in 50,000 miles.
Diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
On Order: Mk8 R, Pure White, Reversing Camera, Harmon Kardon, Heated seats all round.
Gone: Mk7.5 R, 5dr, DSG, Deep Pearl Black, 18” Cadiz, Nav, Winter Pack, Keyless, Dynaudio and Reversing camera.
Gone: Mk7 R, 5dr, DSG, Limestone Grey, 19" Pretoria's, Nav Pro, DCC, Winter Pack, Keyless, Mobile Prep and Reversing Camera.
Gone: Mk6 GTD, 5dr, Manual, Tornado Red, 18" Vancouvers, RCD510 + Dynaudio, heated seats.

Offline SilverChariot

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Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue GTD Manual
« Reply #83 on: 28 June 2010, 21:55 »
I've just watched your video of the whirring noise.

I had exact same issue on my Mk 5 2.0TDI from new in 2004, you could feel the roughness as you let the clutch out. It was always worse from cold, but I just ignored it. 60,000 miles and 4 years later it was still the same and hadn't got any worse. I put it down as a characteristic of the car - some have "rougher" flywheels than others.

If you were serious about rejecting you should have handed the dealer both sets of keys and the car back at 300 miles. A formal rejection letter to VW head office will be ignored. Your contract of sale is with the supplying dealer - that's who you should chasing with regards to rejection.
« Last Edit: 28 June 2010, 21:59 by SilverChariot »
GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN!
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Offline am1w

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Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue GTD Manual
« Reply #84 on: 28 June 2010, 21:56 »
I'm also going to say that the Boron Silk products are of no benefit, even though am1w swears by them. They can offer no additional benefits beyond the standard gear oil.

.... and you know this from personal experience? :rolleyes:
RED TORNADO 7R, 5 DR, DSG, DCC, DNS, DYNAUDIO, KI, WP, HBA, LN, SP

Offline ajmoir36

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Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue GTD Manual
« Reply #85 on: 28 June 2010, 22:27 »
I've just watched your video of the whirring noise.

I had exact same issue on my Mk 5 2.0TDI from new in 2004, you could feel the roughness as you let the clutch out. It was always worse from cold, but I just ignored it. 60,000 miles and 4 years later it was still the same and hadn't got any worse. I put it down as a characteristic of the car - some have "rougher" flywheels than others.

If you were serious about rejecting you should have handed the dealer both sets of keys and the car back at 300 miles. A formal rejection letter to VW head office will be ignored. Your contract of sale is with the supplying dealer - that's who you should chasing with regards to rejection.

Unfortunatly I wish it was so easy just to hand the keys back.  The issue is that VW don't consider it to be a fault.  I will be speaking to the dealer tomorrow, since the normal channels of complaint have obviously failed.  I can tell you know it will be the last VW I will ever purchase and probably the last Brand new car I will ever purchase, they are expensive beasts that break your heart.  (I know its gutting me) Once they have your money they are not interested.  Very expensive lesson learned.(the hard way).
Diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
On Order: Mk8 R, Pure White, Reversing Camera, Harmon Kardon, Heated seats all round.
Gone: Mk7.5 R, 5dr, DSG, Deep Pearl Black, 18” Cadiz, Nav, Winter Pack, Keyless, Dynaudio and Reversing camera.
Gone: Mk7 R, 5dr, DSG, Limestone Grey, 19" Pretoria's, Nav Pro, DCC, Winter Pack, Keyless, Mobile Prep and Reversing Camera.
Gone: Mk6 GTD, 5dr, Manual, Tornado Red, 18" Vancouvers, RCD510 + Dynaudio, heated seats.

Offline mac7

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Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue GTD Manual
« Reply #86 on: 29 June 2010, 02:09 »
The issue is that VW don't consider it to be a fault.  I will be speaking to the dealer tomorrow, since the normal channels of complaint have obviously failed.  I can tell you know it will be the last VW I will ever purchase

If you haven't already you should point out to them that the new Golf is sold on its added refinement and that in your opinion it clearly hasn't achieved that, as none of your previous cars suffered the same way. Hope you get a result, as you are the customer.  :smiley:

I'm also going to say that the Boron Silk products are of no benefit, even though am1w swears by them. They can offer no additional benefits beyond the standard gear oil.

.... and you know this from personal experience? :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: Actually, yes. I was a bearing engineer for several years, a tribologist and lubricant expert for several more and I've researched and tested all the automotive lubricant additives including Boron Silk :nerd:. In my tests (using ball bearings, roller bearings and plain bearings as commonly found in automotive engines and gearboxes), Boron Silk additives did not reduce friction. Not even slightly. 

In experimental tests, boric acid does appear to reduce friction under specific conditions. The sellers of Boron Silk have latched on to the apparent friction reduction properties of boric acid and done a (pretty poor) 'marketing job' with it. But they fail to mention things like the fact that testing was performed on components which had previously received a surface coating of boron carbide or boron oxide (which under the right conditions then forms a boric acid layer) applied by chemical vapour deposition. Your gearbox does not contain parts which have been treated in this way. Boron carbide is a ceramic and so if it was used in a gearbox would very quickly turn into grinding paste - not a practical solution I'm sure you'll agree.

More importantly, the tests performed by Dr Erdemir (who incidentally appears to have a business interest in Advanced Lubrication Technology Inc) show that the boric acid layer only survived for 600 cycles or so before it was gone. So even if Boron Silk could deposit a useful layer onto all internal surfaces (which it can't), it would last only 600 engine revolutions - at just above idle speed about 30 seconds. And then it would be gone until you changed the oil again a year or 10,000 miles later.

Now advances in nano-particle processing may one day allow a product which could reduce friction over the life of an engine oil, however at present the costs associated with that processing were it used (which it isn't) would make Boron Silk hugely expensive, which it is not. And of course there is the very obvious point that if there was a practical way of reducing friction with boric acid (which is commonly available as borax) it would have been adopted by, well, everyone. Particularly with all the emphasis on CO2 emissions reductions these days.

I have no qualms with you promoting a product that you personally feel is beneficial and might benefit others. However, you need to reign in the little "rolling eyes" sarcasm when someone else comes forward with an equally relevant but opposing point of view.  :smiley:
Golf R

Offline am1w

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Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue GTD Manual
« Reply #87 on: 29 June 2010, 09:21 »
:rolleyes: Actually, yes. I was a bearing engineer for several years, a tribologist and lubricant expert for several more and I've researched and tested all the automotive lubricant additives including Boron Silk :nerd:. In my tests (using ball bearings, roller bearings and plain bearings as commonly found in automotive engines and gearboxes), Boron Silk additives did not reduce friction. Not even slightly. 
In experimental tests, boric acid does appear to reduce friction under specific conditions. The sellers of Boron Silk have latched on to the apparent friction reduction properties of boric acid and done a (pretty poor) 'marketing job' with it. But they fail to mention things like the fact that testing was performed on components which had previously received a surface coating of boron carbide or boron oxide (which under the right conditions then forms a boric acid layer) applied by chemical vapour deposition. Your gearbox does not contain parts which have been treated in this way. Boron carbide is a ceramic and so if it was used in a gearbox would very quickly turn into grinding paste - not a practical solution I'm sure you'll agree.
More importantly, the tests performed by Dr Erdemir (who incidentally appears to have a business interest in Advanced Lubrication Technology Inc) show that the boric acid layer only survived for 600 cycles or so before it was gone. So even if Boron Silk could deposit a useful layer onto all internal surfaces (which it can't), it would last only 600 engine revolutions - at just above idle speed about 30 seconds. And then it would be gone until you changed the oil again a year or 10,000 miles later.

Now advances in nano-particle processing may one day allow a product which could reduce friction over the life of an engine oil, however at present the costs associated with that processing were it used (which it isn't) would make Boron Silk hugely expensive, which it is not. And of course there is the very obvious point that if there was a practical way of reducing friction with boric acid (which is commonly available as borax) it would have been adopted by, well, everyone. Particularly with all the emphasis on CO2 emissions reductions these days.
I have no qualms with you promoting a product that you personally feel is beneficial and might benefit others. However, you need to reign in the little "rolling eyes" sarcasm when someone else comes forward with an equally relevant but opposing point of view.  :smiley:

Thank you for your explaination for which I am most grateful.
I bend to your greater knowledge and my apologies if you felt I was being sarcastic.
I am not promoting Boron Silk, just made a suggestion.
 :rolleyes: replaced with big :smiley:
RED TORNADO 7R, 5 DR, DSG, DCC, DNS, DYNAUDIO, KI, WP, HBA, LN, SP

Offline Steve30

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Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue GTD Manual
« Reply #88 on: 29 June 2010, 09:58 »
Mac7 , what oil would you recomend for the GTD mate? I read your thread on oil's very good thanks steve:cool:
« Last Edit: 29 June 2010, 23:13 by Steve30 »

Tiguan quicker than the Golf

Offline mac7

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Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue GTD Manual
« Reply #89 on: 02 July 2010, 19:20 »
Thank you for your explaination for which I am most grateful.
I bend to your greater knowledge and my apologies if you felt I was being sarcastic.

I think I might have been a bit grumpy when I wrote that  :embarassed: - you have no need to apologise but thanks for the smiley.

Mac7 , what oil would you recomend for the GTD mate? I read your thread on oil's very good thanks steve:cool:

Motul Specific 504 00/507 00. Great stuff, VW approved - important as you have a particulate filter.
Golf R