The hardest choice of all: GTI or R?

[R32UK]

In 6 months time there will be threads on here with R owners moaning and whinging that thay weren't able to leave a GTI behind...just you wait and see.
Added weight and much higher losses make a fair old difference.

Weight will only be about 50kg difference... 60bhp more and AWD. Not to mention a 0-60 5.5sec compared to 7.1 sec

Give me the Golf R and i will leave any GTI well behind straight or twistys anyday of the week

Anyone wanting the quickest and most tunable Golf yet.... the Golf R is the one to go for imo.

[Ess_Three]

Weight will only be about 50kg difference... 60bhp more and AWD. Not to mention a 0-60 5.5sec compared to 7.1 sec

50 Kg? We'll see...I'd bank on nearer 100 Kg.
60 BHP...I think not. 50 and a bit maybe...at the crank, according to VWs figures. (210 PS vs 265 PS)
You do know Haldex has losses?...around 80 BHP total on a TT/S3/R32...compared to 50 for a FWD...so that's a grand total of 20...being generous, 25 BHP more...with nearly 100 Kg more to lug about.

Your 0-60 argument doesn't need explained...nobody has argued that off the line, a 4WD car won't be considerably faster under most conditions...but once out of 2nd - at about 60 MPH, it becomes irrelevant...and the extra drag and weight counts.

How many times have you seen Mk5 GTIs turn in slower 0-60 times but faster 1/4 mile times? Power to weight counts once rolling...and a standard Mk6 GTI won't be too far off a Mk6 R once you get it into the top of 2nd/3rd.

Seriously, in skilled hands, the GTI isn't far behind out of the box. Nobody is saying it's not slower...but it sure as hell doubt it's 10% slower once you get off the line...which means in normal driving, it'll be pretty close....as it is in the Mk5.

Give me the Golf R and i will leave any GTI well behind straight or twistys anyday of the week

Catch you at GTI International one year...and we'll see!
If you can't take 10% of time off me, your argument has failed and you buy the beers.
Just don't brake too hard...ot I'll hit the back of you...I'll be that close! 

Anyone wanting the quickest and most tunable Golf yet.... the Golf R is the one to go for imo.

No argument there...

[R32UK]

no probs S3

i hope im wrong as no doubt I will still be running my mapped GTI

[Booski]

LOL

On paper the golf R looks like it will be faster in a straight line or otherwise !
And most definately more capable in adverse road conditions... So faster all year round....
As to how much faster we'll have to wait and see, however, IMHO 10% sounds a conservative estimate...

[mac7]

I know it's only Top Gear figures but the Mk5 R32 was over 3 seconds faster than the Mk5 GTI, despite the extra weight of the engine and 4WD:

GTI 1:33.7s
R32 1:30.4s

However, that's only 2.5% faster

[R32UK]

I know it's only Top Gear figures but the Mk5 R32 was over 3 seconds faster than the Mk5 GTI, despite the extra weight of the engine and 4WD:

GTI 1:33.7s
R32 1:30.4s

However, that's only 2.5% faster

but now give the R an extra 20bhp advantage and no heavy V6 and the writing is on the wall I think!! My 10% reference was actually only to cornering speed... but its a good marker anyway I would say

[Ess_Three]

but now give the R an extra 20bhp advantage and no heavy V6 and the writing is on the wall I think!! My 10% reference was actually only to cornering speed... but its a good marker anyway I would say

I would like to see values put on the g forces each car is capable of pulling, as I'll maintain an R isn't capable of cornering any faster than a GTI.
Getting out faster due to better traction...I'd agree.
And on a track like Top Gear's, from a standing start, I could see an obvious advantage...but that's never been in doubt.
But actual mid corner speeds - which was what was supposed to be 10% faster - I doubt it.

Maybe we will get some better data nearer the time...who knows?

But taking those times, and equating them to your average Joe on the public road...I still maintain that a well driven GTI will keep up...and certainly won't be left behind by any margin worth willy-waving over.

[Ess_Three]

i hope im wrong as no doubt I will still be running my mapped GTI

Well to even things up...I'll take my Mk3 then. 

[R32UK]

i hope im wrong as no doubt I will still be running my mapped GTI

Well to even things up...I'll take my Mk3 then. 

I'll bring along my shed.. should be a close call   

[p3eps]

50 Kg? We'll see...I'd bank on nearer 100 Kg.

Here are both kerb weights taken from volkswagen.de
They are based on a DSG model before any options added - so I'm assuming this is 3 door?

Golf R: Gewichte Leergewicht 1.541 kg
Golf GTI: Gewichte Leergewicht 1.414 kg

127 is the difference!