Author Topic: New rear brakes  (Read 5297 times)

Offline r1ch

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New rear brakes
« on: 12 October 2009, 21:12 »
Long time lurker - need some help now so go easy on me. :tongue:

I've been aware my rear pads were nearing replacement time but had to do a 500 mile round trip and unfortunately needed two pretty major emergency stops (both 80 to 0 - what are the chances  :undecided:) which haven't helped matters so it's now pretty urgent.

Looking at the guide http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/281928.aspx and I'm confident I can do it myself, given the right tools - so I'm looking for suggestions on what to get and where's cheapest (halfords/online/ebay?).

It's a 2004 Mk5 Golf TDI SE  :wink:

- Piston tool
- Torx adapter (size?)
- Pads
- Discs

Are the genuine VAG parts worth it, or is there cheaper better performing aftermarket parts I should consider?

Out of curiosity, how much would this cost at a stealers or at a local garage?

Looking to buy tomorrow to get this done at the weekend. Cheers guys.

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: New rear brakes
« Reply #1 on: 13 October 2009, 13:39 »
Long time lurker - need some help now so go easy on me. :tongue:

Welcome to the forum.  :smiley:

I've been aware my rear pads were nearing replacement time but had to do a 500 mile round trip and unfortunately needed two pretty major emergency stops (both 80 to 0 - what are the chances  :undecided:) which haven't helped matters so it's now pretty urgent.

Looking at the guide http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/281928.aspx and I'm confident I can do it myself, given the right tools - so I'm looking for suggestions on what to get and where's cheapest (halfords/online/ebay?).

It's a 2004 Mk5 Golf TDI SE  :wink:

- Piston tool
- Torx adapter (size?)
- Pads
- Discs

Are the genuine VAG parts worth it, or is there cheaper better performing aftermarket parts I should consider?

Genuine pads and discs only - unless you are looking to upgrade.  :wink:

Tools:  I think the disc is held on by either a Tx25 or Tx30 head.  And don't bother with halfrauds.  Look up www.Cromwell.co.uk, and see if they have a branch near you, and order from them.  Be aware they often only have fast moving stuff in stock, so specialist automotive tools will need to be shipped overnight from their Wigston head office.

You will also need a wire brush, ideally a stainless steel one.

Finally, don't bother with copper grease - 99% of copper greases are shyte.  For work on brakes, you need two very different 'greases'.  You need a high quality 'anti-seize' such as Bostic Never-Seez Pure Nickel Special (sold by Cromwell - http://www.cromwell.co.uk/static/publication/547/pages/1270.pdf and http://www.cromwell.co.uk/BST7050702G - £35 for a 1lb tin - but will last for years), and for the slide pins where they fit in the rubber sleves, you must NOT use any petroleum based products - get a tube of Rocol Sapphire Aqua Sil silicone grease (again from Cromwell - http://www.cromwell.co.uk/static/publication/547/pages/1290.pdf and http://www.cromwell.co.uk/ROC7706140Q - £12 for an 85g tube).


Oh, and if doing the job yourself, if the master cylinder resevoir has been topped up, you will need to manually syphon some off with a CLEAN turkey baster (but not below the minimum level) - otherwise, when you retract the pistons, it will squirt out all over your underbonet paintwork.

Oh #2.  If following that guide on ukmivs, apply the anti seize paste to the caliper metal sliders before you refit the new disc (just makes it easier, and helps to keep it off the new disc).


HTH  :smiley:
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Offline r1ch

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Re: New rear brakes
« Reply #2 on: 13 October 2009, 13:48 »
That's great info, thank you very much.  :smiley:

On my lunch at the mo so I'll go through it again when I get home.

Where can I get the genuine parts from? Online? Stealer?

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: New rear brakes
« Reply #3 on: 13 October 2009, 14:44 »
That's great info, thank you very much.  :smiley:

On my lunch at the mo so I'll go through it again when I get home.

Where can I get the genuine parts from? Online? Stealer?

Genuine parts not available online.  Either the VW stealer, or the counter of the official VAG UK trade specialists - www.TheTradePartsSpecialists.co.uk
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Offline r1ch

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Re: New rear brakes
« Reply #4 on: 14 October 2009, 00:06 »
Again, perfect info. Rang them up earlier and ordered the pads and discs for what I think is £47.15 inc VAT!

He said £21.25 for the pads and £19.75 for the discs, plus VAT...does that sound right? I double checked with the guy - I should be expecting 4 pads and 2 discs right?

Ordered the pistol tool, and if it's a TX25 or 30 then I've got a Torx screw for it. Had a look at those links for the anti-seize and silicone grease but nearly £50 on grease is gonna be a hard pill to swallow...:undecided: Do they do smaller pots? Are there any alternatives that are nearly as good in a smaller size?

Thanks again for your help, really appreciate it.

Just because I'm the curious type, what cost difference are we talking about for an upgrade? Longer life, better performance? You've got until about 1pm tomorrow to convince me before I go for the VAG parts from TPS. :laugh:

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: New rear brakes
« Reply #5 on: 14 October 2009, 12:50 »
Again, perfect info. Rang them up earlier and ordered the pads and discs for what I think is £47.15 inc VAT!

He said £21.25 for the pads and £19.75 for the discs, plus VAT...does that sound right? I double checked with the guy - I should be expecting 4 pads and 2 discs right?

Did you order them from a VW dealer or the TPS trade outlet?  The discs retail (+vat) for around £45 each, and the pads £47 for an axle set (four pads) - but there are 'substancial' trade discounts on discs and pads - and those prices you've been quoted are the full-on trade prices - so make sure they stick to it!  :wink:


And yes, you should get one box of pads with four individual pads, and two discs.  :wink:


Ordered the pistol tool,

Which type did you order?

Had a look at those links for the anti-seize and silicone grease but nearly £50 on grease is gonna be a hard pill to swallow...:undecided: Do they do smaller pots? Are there any alternatives that are nearly as good in a smaller size?

I appreciate that they both seem a little expensive - but both will probably last a lifetime if you only work on your own car.

The reason I actively discourage 'copper' greases is because most which are available are neither waterproof, don't actually provide any 'lubrication' and very little 'anti-seize' properties once the solvent has evaporated, and the worse of the copper greases actually cause wear on the components they are supposed to protect from wear.  There is also a 'cosmetic' issue with copper greases - they look horrible on cars with 'open' spoked alloys, though if you have steel wheels with plastic wheel covers, this won't be an issue.  Nickel based anti-seize actually 'blends in' with unpainted brake calipers and alloy wheels.

Anti-seize pastes/greases can also be used (sparingly) where the disc 'hub' mates to the actuall bearing hub, and again on the roadwheels - where the 'face' of the roadwheel mates with the disc hub, the centering spigot ring, along with the wheel bolts - both the actual threads, and the conical 'seat' face.  All these will stop something called 'galvanic corrosion' (basically were two different metals contact each other, then an accelerated corrosion takes place due to differing 'electrical properties') - and this is notoriously common with alloy wheels.  Basically, any threaded fastener can be treated to a thin smear of anti-seize.

If you feel you can't afford the Nickel anti-seize, then the only copper grease I would recommend is the 'original' formulation from MolySlip - called 'Copaslip'.  This is also available from Cromwell (same page - http://www.cromwell.co.uk/static/publication/547/pages/1270.pdf), and is available in a 100gm tube at £2.70 plus vat (Cromwell product code: MLY-703-3100A - http://www.cromwell.co.uk/MLY7033100A) - but you will probably see from the catalogue page the differences in prices between similar size pots of Copaslip, the Bostik Copper anti-seize, and the Bostic Nickel anti-seize.  Anyway, the genuine 100g tube of Copaslip will be better than nothing at all, and also better than the copper greases you get from the likes of Halfrauds - and will hopefully be better on the wallet!  :wink:



As for the silicone grease - the only other options are to get a tin of proper 'Lockheed Rubber Lube' - but this is very hard to source these days.  The Rocol silicone grease also has many other uses - it can be used on plumbing systems, including drinking water supplies (such as tap washers, tap glands, etc), electrical connections (so any electrical connector on a car, including spark plug to ignition coil, ignition coils to wiring looms, and any other electrical connector you can find) - and is 100% waterproof.  Sadly, I really don't know any other alternatives.

Thanks again for your help, really appreciate it.

Your'e most welcome.  :smiley:


Just because I'm the curious type, what cost difference are we talking about for an upgrade? Longer life, better performance? You've got until about 1pm tomorrow to convince me before I go for the VAG parts from TPS. :laugh:

Yes, uprated brake pads, larger discs, different types of discs (vented, drilled, grooved), braided hoses, uprated calipers etc.  Some are just for 'show', and others are needed if you do track days, or drive the car very hard (and therefore brake very hard) when fully loaded (say on the Autobahns or in the Alps or Pyrennese).  For 'normal' everyday driving, the standard brakes are normally perfectly adequate.

Cost-wise - well how long is a piece of string?  It can start from around £60-80 for a set of uprated pads - all the way to £1500-£2000 for seriously uprated calipers, discs, pads, hoses, brake fluid, etc.

HTH


Oh, one other thing - you must only use Volkswagen approved brake fluid (if you don't, there is a serious risk of ending up with a £1500 bill for a ruined ABS/ESP unit) - so you might want to get some genuine VW brake fluid.  250ml can for £1.66, or next size is one litre can for £4.46 - but for a 'home user' I would not recommed the one litre tin - get one or two 250ml tins (due to brake fluid absorbing water from the atmosphere, once the tin is opened).  Or depending on when it was last done, consider a full brake fluid change (should be done every two years).
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
-----
'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo