Author Topic: tuning a KR and ABF  (Read 17459 times)

Offline Diluxe

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tuning a KR and ABF
« on: 16 July 2009, 20:23 »
why is it with relative ease you can wack up the timing , fiddle with WUR & get 170BHP+ from a KR, but you cant mimic this electronicaly on a ABF?

I would of thought with an ABF and bit of mapping this would be easy..............................
1997 16V

Offline danny_p

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Re: tuning a KR and ABF
« Reply #1 on: 17 July 2009, 00:28 »
you can fettel the ABF most of the chips are crappy and just offset maps.   i put quite a lot of effort into the chip i have in my ecu.  afr's are bang on where i think they should be and the advance is plentyfull and agressive.  dosent like 95 fuel as it trys to ping sometimes running on that.  no idea what its makeing  i chouldn't be arsed to dyno it but notcably up on what it ran before
all the VW's have gone bar 1.

Offline Ess_Three

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Re: tuning a KR and ABF
« Reply #2 on: 17 July 2009, 22:06 »
why is it with relative ease you can wack up the timing , fiddle with WUR & get 170BHP+ from a KR, but you cant mimic this electronicaly on a ABF?


You can. Just use the same rollers as the standard KR + WUR mod shows 170+ and you'll have more with a re-mapped ABF.

Or, try seeing how many KRs make 160, never mind 170+ on dynos where ABFs make 165-170. I've not seen any.

You don't get 40 BHP out of a KR without head and cams...same with an ABF...it's just that the injection on a KR allows you to run wilder cams than the standard ABF ECU does...so in that case, maybe you get a few BHP more.

But a standard 1.8 KR making 170+ with only timing and WUR mods...not that I've ever seen. Certainly not on the same day as I've run my ABF.


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Offline danny_p

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Re: tuning a KR and ABF
« Reply #3 on: 17 July 2009, 23:03 »
i recon a stock ABF motor ,  running open TB ( save any induction kit or airbox arguments )  and a decent 4-1 manifold and a bit of fetteling and timed up cock on  chould pull 180
all the VW's have gone bar 1.

Offline bored_Welsh_lad

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Re: tuning a KR and ABF
« Reply #4 on: 18 July 2009, 02:01 »
i recon a stock ABF motor ,  running open TB ( save any induction kit or airbox arguments )  and a decent 4-1 manifold and a bit of fetteling and timed up cock on  chould pull 180

hmmm....

http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186393&highlight=abf+tuning
Mk3 Golf Gti:Full Milltek system and Decat,K&N filter,mk2 Cam,-1.5 degree camber shims, borbet a's, toyo proxies,hot tuning coils, brembo vented discs, greenstuff pads...Soon to have Eaton Power

mk3 16v 5dr Gti,mintex extreme pads,drilled/grooved discs,lowered,cat back powerflow system,omp panel filter with modified airbox,debadged grill, started prep for spraying, lots to come :D

Bumper Vents :D

Offline Wayne

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Re: tuning a KR and ABF
« Reply #5 on: 18 July 2009, 09:09 »
i recon a stock ABF motor ,  running open TB ( save any induction kit or airbox arguments )  and a decent 4-1 manifold and a bit of fetteling and timed up cock on  chould pull 180

hmmm....

http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186393&highlight=abf+tuning

Interesting thread.

Offline Ess_Three

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Re: tuning a KR and ABF
« Reply #6 on: 18 July 2009, 10:44 »
i recon a stock ABF motor ,  running open TB ( save any induction kit or airbox arguments )  and a decent 4-1 manifold and a bit of fetteling and timed up cock on  chould pull 180

Not a hope in hell.
Not genuine BHP.

I've tried dynoing with no filter/airbox...and it doesn't give you anything over a decent filter/Airbox set up...the TB is the restriction, not the filter (assuming the filter is clean etc).

A 4 branch manifold has never been proven to add anything substantial either...maybe up to 5 BHP on an already tuned engine, but for one making up to 190-200 BHP, standard seems fine.

Swinging the cams may change the power band about a bit...but you aren't going to find 30BHP...you'll be lucky to get that out of headwork/cams/re-mapping.

Phonebook figures may be easy to fake...but in reality, you don't go getting 30-40 BHP out of ANY VW 16v engine with a few basic tweeks. It just doesn't happen.

Reducing my Golf count by the week....
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Offline Ess_Three

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Re: tuning a KR and ABF
« Reply #7 on: 18 July 2009, 10:45 »

Reducing my Golf count by the week....
..but gaining motorcycles.

Offline bored_Welsh_lad

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Re: tuning a KR and ABF
« Reply #8 on: 18 July 2009, 22:12 »
http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186393&highlight=abf+tuning

Interesting thread.

Ongoing thread...
I'll break 200 yet.

I love this thread simply because in 1 foul swoop you have proved 90% of people wrong about the sh!t they talk with regards 170 brake blah blah.. i do keep an eye on it to see how your getting on.. This is why i love Cgti.. because of the knowledge base out there.. i have nando currently making me up charger brackets for my eaton.. hoping it will be fairly nippy when done..
Mk3 Golf Gti:Full Milltek system and Decat,K&N filter,mk2 Cam,-1.5 degree camber shims, borbet a's, toyo proxies,hot tuning coils, brembo vented discs, greenstuff pads...Soon to have Eaton Power

mk3 16v 5dr Gti,mintex extreme pads,drilled/grooved discs,lowered,cat back powerflow system,omp panel filter with modified airbox,debadged grill, started prep for spraying, lots to come :D

Bumper Vents :D

Offline danny_p

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Re: tuning a KR and ABF
« Reply #9 on: 19 July 2009, 13:50 »
minor fetteling :-  de bumping the TB  and tidying round gaskets  but nothing involveing head off.  to be fair you have done more reserch into it than i chould be arsed to do.  mines jumped towards the ITB route whitch i'll play with for a bit  but some form of boost is calling again.

we both have dyno plots, there from diffrent dynos tho.  i have dyno plots showing 170 up on this forum from what i would think is an unbiased rolling road as they din't do any work on it.  but all roller are diffrent end off.  thats one of the reasons i plan to get my own at some point,  they arn't exactly that expensive for what they can do for you.

180 was based on what i have printouts of it doing and the form it was in at that point.   any whats this about haveign to send off for remaping and stuff.  digi 3  isn't exactly complicated,  switch noggin on and do it yourself all you need is a computer some cracked software and eeprom burner a bit like this that you can buy off ebay for naff all



of course takeig the chip in and old gets a bit old after about an hours so built an emulator for the 27c256 chip  so i chould do live mapping off the laptop without haveing to take anything apart.  it is also possible to use digi 3.2 with long duration cams,  just because it has a map sensor dosent mean it has to use it,  you can tell it to go off TPS / RPM if you can be arsed but that needs a bit more kit and more thinking

 

« Last Edit: 19 July 2009, 13:59 by danny_p »
all the VW's have gone bar 1.