Author Topic: stiffer spring or thicker ARB?  (Read 1894 times)

Offline Diluxe

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stiffer spring or thicker ARB?
« on: 12 July 2009, 19:03 »
I want to eliminate some roll in my car for track use,

Heard that its better to get stiffer springs rather than thicker ARB, is that true?
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Offline shepgti

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Re: stiffer spring or thicker ARB?
« Reply #1 on: 12 July 2009, 23:33 »
buy a full suspension setup and an arb and your laughing :wink:

Offline boneybradley

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Re: stiffer spring or thicker ARB?
« Reply #2 on: 13 July 2009, 00:04 »
what suspension are you currently running? If its standard then shocks and springs before anti roll bar, but if it has a good set up an anti roll bar will make the car roll much less (I wouldnt use one on the road but for track use  :cool:)
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Offline danny_p

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Re: stiffer spring or thicker ARB?
« Reply #3 on: 13 July 2009, 02:22 »
for a track car.

stiffer spring and shocks,    and clamp a mahoosive arm to the rear beam  to make it chuckable
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Offline Diluxe

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Re: stiffer spring or thicker ARB?
« Reply #4 on: 13 July 2009, 08:33 »
Koni Coilovers on at the moment, over on vwvortex there chatting about doing away with the front ARB totally and getting higher rate springs.

Just wondered if anyone else was doing it or had expereince of it?

Car will be my daily drive aswell, so dont want it to become to hard  :smiley:
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Offline Wayne

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Re: stiffer spring or thicker ARB?
« Reply #5 on: 13 July 2009, 09:44 »
Koni Coilovers on at the moment, over on vwvortex there chatting about doing away with the front ARB totally and getting higher rate springs.

Just wondered if anyone else was doing it or had expereince of it?

Car will be my daily drive aswell, so dont want it to become to hard  :smiley:

Stiffer springs will be a step forward but your ride will suffer.

Offline Ess_Three

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Re: stiffer spring or thicker ARB?
« Reply #6 on: 13 July 2009, 09:45 »
Springs and dampers before ARBs for sure, be they coilovers or individual units.

If it's still rolling too much, for mixed road/track use ARBs are a better option, as long as you go bigger at the rear than the front, to make the rear more mobile.

Go too big on the front ARB, or too stiff on the spring rates, or both...and it'll understeer in the wet.
Too stiff on either and it will be reluctant to turn in as well. It's all a balancing act.

Set the front suspension up quite aggressively to find some more front end grip and you will be on the right track, preferably with an LSD and sticky tyres...

Poly rear beam bushes make the rear more predictable.

Personally, for a 16v on Koni coilovers, I find the front springs too stiff for the car (with Eibach ARBs) and want to soften the front springs slightly to aid turn in...I could drop to the standard front ARB, but I like the balance at the moment...it's just too crashy over bumps...so I would see dropping to softer springs and keeping the front Eibach ARB is my solution, for my car.

It's perfectly acceptable to go harder on the springs and ditch the front ARB all together though...it'll just make the car awful on the road.

As for the rear beam...there is little you can do to make a difference unless you are running slicks/R888s and generating some serious cornering forces, in which case a braced beam may help stop camber/toe changes as you corner, at the expense of unsprung weight...adding negative camber at the rear will also help in that case...but both only work if you have LOTS of physical grip at the front - most Mk3s don't.


Bottom line is; there is no one size fits all answer.
you need to understand what it's doing, and more to the point, not doing, then address the problems.
Just saying do this, do that, doesn't work, as every car behaves slightly differently...and more to the point, every driver likes the car set up differently.

I have a mate with a Mk3 VR6 track car that's really well sorted and quick...but it understeers due to that boat anchor at the front. He doesn't find it does...as he drives round it to some degree...then uses the extra power on the straights.
I prefer to trail brake and really load the front end up...so need as much grip as I can find, to carry corner speed.

His suspension set up is quite different to mine, despite sharing the same coilovers/ARB set up....
Which brings the set-up back into it:
You can fit the best suspension on the planet, but if you don't have decent tyres and the suspension set to work them properly, you are not getting the best from them.


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Offline Ess_Three

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Re: stiffer spring or thicker ARB?
« Reply #7 on: 13 July 2009, 09:50 »
Koni Coilovers on at the moment, over on vwvortex there chatting about doing away with the front ARB totally and getting higher rate springs.

Just wondered if anyone else was doing it or had expereince of it?

Car will be my daily drive aswell, so dont want it to become to hard  :smiley:

Since you have the Konis already...do you just want it to roll less all round?
If so, fit a set of uprated ARBs.

If you want it to turn in better, and reduce understeer....try an uprated rear bar only?
Or maybe an uprated front and an adjustable uprated rear?

The car rolling a bit doesn't bother me...in fact you need a bit of weight transfer to get the rear to follow the front...so as long as you have the grip at the front, I wouldn't worry too much about the roll.

What suspension angles are you running at the front?



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Offline Diluxe

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Re: stiffer spring or thicker ARB?
« Reply #8 on: 14 July 2009, 14:10 »
yes I really just want to reduce the roll, but attempt to keep some comfort for daily commute....

I assume you mean about the braces as strut braces? do you use these in conjunction with an ARB or without?

I will be running R888 for track
« Last Edit: 14 July 2009, 14:13 by Diluxe »
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Offline Ess_Three

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Re: stiffer spring or thicker ARB?
« Reply #9 on: 15 July 2009, 08:35 »
yes I really just want to reduce the roll, but attempt to keep some comfort for daily commute....

I'd probably add uprated ARBs then. The Eibachs work well.


Quote
I assume you mean about the braces as strut braces? do you use these in conjunction with an ARB or without?

You can do...the front may do something...the rear do nothing.


Quote
I will be running R888 for track

I'd try adding ARBs before stiffer springs, that's for sure.

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..but gaining motorcycles.