Author Topic: Why is tuned E30 so slow? And other questions (concerning sport cat, etc)  (Read 4918 times)

Peskarik

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Finally decided to go for more tuning (now have Oettinger Stage 1).

I mean, I have FWD 3-door Edition 30, no leather, no DVD, and with manual gearbox. And it is also white. So I guess I can forget about selling it in a year or two for reasonable price anyway.  :smiley: So might as well bring it to the logical end, so now waiting for parts to arrive to my local Oettinger tuner.  :smiley:

So I go for Oettinger Stage 2. Intercooler, Carbonio, exhaust from cat, fuel pump, and new soft (on paper 330hp, 460Nm).

Questions:

1) Why is E30 with 330hp and 460Nm slower then new Focus RS? Oettinger quotes 5.9 to 100kmh, 258kmh top speed.

2) Anyone can tell me if there is noticeable difference in dynamics between 300/400 and 330/460 GTI?

3) Unfortunately where I'm at (Switzerland), just like in Germany, sport cats are not approved by TüV.

So I wonder, since sport cat has 200 cells, against 400-600 in original cat, will I have problems passing emissions?

Also, if I go and install sport cat later (after Stage 2 optimization), will I have increase in output above 330/460 just from the cat? Or what benefits will I have from installing sport cat after Stage 2? (how do I justify extra 1000+ euro for the cat).

On a GTI there are 3 silencers, one after cat, then in the middle, and the final box. If I eliminate the first one and put a replacement pipe instead of it (Oettinger offers that option), what effects will that have?

Overall, is it worth installing sport cat after Stage 2?

Let me know guys your thoughts on above, please!

(I also hope I get a word or two from TT (who, a copla month ago, anyway told me to go for Stage 2) and from Hurdy (the ambassador of E30 tuning).)


Jkctr

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You are limited to FWD, another 100bhp on top of that still wont see you much better than 5.5/5.4 to 60.

Its in gear you should be looking at.

Peskarik

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You are limited to FWD, another 100bhp on top of that still wont see you much better than 5.5/5.4 to 60.

Its in gear you should be looking at.

I don't really care about 0-60. I know it is FWD. Anyway, I am very gentle from the stand still. For me fun starts from 3rd gear.  :smiley:

So, are there any in-gear number anywhere?

I once read an article testing 135i, TT3.2, and Edition 30. There was a table of in-gear times. Beamer ruled, of course, but E30 was only 230hp strong.

The other day I was going on highway and in front of me was another MkV golf (no pipes sticking out back, I assume it is diesel), and though I was in 6th gear, but above 3000rpm (that is where I have max torque), I was only matching him in acceleration, there was no significant advantage on my side (maybe he was in 5th?). That was disconcerting.  :sad:

Offline Hurdy

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Hi there Peskarik :smiley:

Sooooo many questions in one post!!!!

My first question would be ....."Have you had the car on a Dyno to verify that the figures you have been quoted are accurate?"

The reasoning behind this is that you seem to be unhappy with the performance difference and also that the other Golf you came across seemed just as fast. A Dyno printout will confirm whether you are getting the power and will also show up any discrepancies in performance like boost pressure losses. Any tuner who has a Dyno should be able to supply a basic report on how the car is running and if it has any issues.

Once you have done this (or if you already have) and your car has been passed as okay, and you still want more power, then the next obvious steps are what you have listed for the Stage 2 Oettinger upgrade.

The difference will be quite different to what you have now.

1.The throttle response will be sharper
2.Torque will hold higher throughout the rev range
3.Power will come in earlier and continue through to the redline.

Now to answer some of your other questions

The ED30 WILL be faster than a Focus RS. I have managed 0-100kmh in under 5.5 seconds on unprepared roads. The top speed is mainly irrelevant, but if you search on you tube there are several cars that have been faster than 258kmh (one hit 300kmh on the rev counter!) and I believe this was an Oettinger car. Just because they quote figures, it doesn't mean the car isn't faster :wink:

The dynamics of a car in a straight line between 300bhp and 330bhp are very different, for the reasons quoted in 1,2 and 3. Cornering dynamics will depend upon a completely different set of modifications.

As regards the sports cat, I do not know what type of emissions tests you have in your country, but ours could be completely different so cannot really comment. All I can say is that the sports cats are built to a higher spec and do a similar level of emission control without the same flow restriction.

The power you gain from a downpipe and sports cat are similar to the 1,2 and 3 I've been quoting. Imagine blowing down a straw and then blowing down a hose pipe, you will be able to put through much more air in a larger pipe than a smaller one. Now imagine putting a sponge over the straw and that is like having the OEM cat instead of a sports cat. With a turbo engined car it is all about flow and how much air you can suck in at one end and blow it out at the other. Combine that with the extra fuel capability of the fuel pump and you can clearly see the advantages.
 :nerd:

HTH

Hurdy :smiley:









 




Seat Leon Cupra Black 290 DSG

Peskarik

  • Guest
Hi, Hurdy!  :smiley:

Thank you for taking your time with my questions, I really appreciate that!  :nerd:

1)
Many questions because it is a big thing for me, this Stage 2 tuning (also, very expensive). Moreover, I am so seldom here on the forum, so once I am here I take the opportunity to ask as much as possible!  :nerd:

2)
I've had the car on the dyno. That happened after I had a small crash (I crashed into a lorry) in November and my water leaked, eventually had to replace the front bumper, the hood, some other parts. After that I went to Oettinger to have the 300/400 soft installed again, but the car did not feel as explosive as before the crash. I had talks with VW garage that fixed the car, I had talks with Oettinger, they talked with each other. I went to Oettinger and they again installed the soft, and then we went on the dyno for race cars that run on slicks (I did not know about that before we went there). The rollers on the dyno were therefore clean, shiny, even metal, and my wheels slipped a bit during the test, so only showed 290hp, and no torque curve (dyno was old, I guess). At least I have 290hp, though I don't know if that means in the engine or on the wheels.
Once I do Stage 2 I'll find real dyno, with rollers good for normal road tyres, and do the test.

3)
Those 1,2,3 points you mention, they will materialize even without sport cat?

4)
I've done above 258 on speedo in France last year, on original 230hp.  :smiley:  But now with lowered and hard KW V2 I am afraid to go above 240 on German autobahns, for fear something will fall off.  :lipsrsealed: You have -30mm as well, don't you? I wonder how you drive.
In fact, I once had 2 passengers, and when turning to the left on a side road, over a smallish curb (maybe 7 centimeters high and with soft edge), my front right wheel touched the arch and bent the metal out, now I have to repaint the whole wing.  :sick:

You may be faster than RS, because you have DSG and because you are the ambassador of tuned E30s.  :cool: Don't you have 500Nm under the bonnet, LSD, weight reductions, etc? I am not that advanced.

5)
I somehow understand the advantages of bigger bore pipes and clearer cross-section of the cat, but realistically, how do I get those 330/460 WITHOUT the sports cat, while the guys here, who have full Millteks, get the same numbers?
And if I then later put in sports cat I'll see even better throttle response and more power, is that what you are saying?

6)
Can I ask another question? What do you think about only installing rear arb (the car is jiggly at the front as it is, do not want to make it worse with bigger front arb)? Do you know if Eibach is thicker than what is originally put on E30?
« Last Edit: 21 May 2009, 14:22 by Peskarik »

Offline carl1

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if you was just going above 3000rpm in 6th you should have dropped it to 4th then you should have blown him away
GTI manual PP, now sold  :-(

Offline Spaced

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The Focus RS has completely different gear ratios, higher than the golf in every gear. I just saw the autocar test and it can do 70 in second (and 152 in 5th  :laugh:) so it will have a natural advantage for 0 to 60 times as most cars need 3rd.


Loyal owner since 2005, done with remapping, I drive a Golf not a Veyron. (hypocrite)

Jkctr

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Not with GIAC software  :laugh:

Offline spencer30

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Do yourself a favour and forget 0-60 times......0-100 is much more of an indicator.  :nerd:

Offline Komenda

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Do yourself a favour and forget 0-60 times......0-100 is much more of an indicator.  :nerd:

Forget them both. If you can't maintain corner speed, or get enough acceleration in gear then you will get eaten.

In gear torque figures are much more important than outright power, for good lap times and driveability.