Horney's 'James Shead' 1988 BTCC Golf GTI replica build.

[Thom89]

Welding and bracing will not be a problem with the scrutieers

Blue Book 2013 says:

Any modification to a homologated ROPS (other than fitment of doorbars) is prohibited.

Isn't a 6-point bolt-in cage homologated in its unaltered form, for installation without alteration?

Relevant details here:

http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/msa_forms/bluebooks/13/151_189_Common_Regulations_for_Competitors_%28Safety%29_%28K%29.pdf

Dunno where it says about roof material, but I'd guess it'd be outside the GTI Championship regs (although I appreciate Nick isn't going for that).

Details in the link are to fit to a minimum specification for fitting a roll cage, and encourages welding instead, extra bracing is also mentioned, and will be encouraged by the Scrutes
We have 2 Historic racers that have bolted cages, that have since been welded upon request, both are now fully FIA papered cars
Bolting in a roll cage will never provide, or replace any torsional integrity, it will simply give the driver little more protection in the event of an accident

Cars entered into competition, are likely to be thrown out unless welded... Track days you may, and probably will be OK. less lenient

Roof panels, I'm not 100% sure about, but sunroofs should be welded up. Cars fitted with full OTT roll cages can probably flaunt the GRP roof panel thing... if spotted that is!

The "Shell" Nick, basically has nothing tying the front of the car to the rear, this will be evident when you jack the car up under the sill ("A post") and try and open the door!

Thom

[Horney]

I think this is where FIA and MSA get confused. MSA regs are fully happy with a bolt in cage, it's in the blue book, from memory all the GTI champ cars I've looked in have bolt in cages. FIA international stuff may well be very different.

Shall get my nose in the blue book over the GRP roof this week and report back!

Nick

[Thom89]

I think this is where FIA and MSA get confused. MSA regs are fully happy with a bolt in cage, it's in the blue book, from memory all the GTI champ cars I've looked in have bolt in cages. FIA international stuff may well be very different.

Shall get my nose in the blue book over the GRP roof this week and report back!

Nick

 

Thom

[Diamond Hell]

Details in the link are to fit to a minimum specification for fitting a roll cage, and encourages welding instead, extra bracing is also mentioned, and will be encouraged by the Scrutes
We have 2 Historic racers that have bolted cages, that have since been welded upon request, both are now fully FIA papered cars

Logbooked cars are a rather different scenario than something prepared for sprinting, or something like the Golf GTI Championship, where bolt in cages are definitely part of the regulations.  Welding and extra bracing ARE mentioned, but that would depend on the overall set up of the cage IMHO.

Cars entered into competition, are likely to be thrown out unless welded... Track days you may, and probably will be OK. less lenient

You mean more lenient    I think Nick's bolt-in cage would get into the GTI Championship.... provided there weren't bits welded to it, voiding the homologation of the cage..... Looking at cars in the VAG Trophy they DO have full weld-in cages, but that's a significant hop up from the GTI Championship.

The roof would be an immediate fail in the GTI championship though because:

1. Unless specifically authorised in these regulations, the lightening of components or panels in any way, whether via removal of metal or otherwise is prohibited. Specifically but not exclusively this includes removal of any unused bracketry welded to the bodyshell or other components: seat rails, seat front cross member, rear seat base frame, roof tin supports, seat belt anchor backplates, rear seat hinge and retaining brackets.

I think replacing the roof with a GRP skin othingys as 'removal of metal'. 

[Horney]

My shell was non complaint with the GTi champ before I even bought it as it's has the arches chopped for wheel clearance and the rear seat brackets removed to run a Corrado rear bench.

[Thom89]

TBH, I'm not arguing the toss in the rules and regs, my point is that with the steel roof being removed, the roll cage should now be welded to bring the strength of the shell back up to what it should be...
Just had a quick ask of the lads, none of us have ever heard about not being allowed to weld in a roll cage...

Thom

[Diamond Hell]

my point is that with the steel roof being removed, the roll cage should now be welded to bring the strength of the shell back up to what it should be...

Oh I agree, it's just a weld-in cage probably would have been a better starting point than a bolt-in, given the surgery that's going on now.

[Thom89]

my point is that with the steel roof being removed, the roll cage should now be welded to bring the strength of the shell back up to what it should be...

Oh I agree, it's just a weld-in cage probably would have been a better starting point than a bolt-in, given the surgery that's going on now.

Its all still doable with the existing cage, but a six pointer would be ideal
Just hope that you've not been disheartened Nick, get on with the grafting!
 

Thom

[Horney]

Not at all disheartened chaps, let me jsut hop of the edge of this motorway bridge and I'll be right with you.

[Thom89]

Not at all disheartened chaps, let me jsut hop of the edge of this motorway bridge and I'll be right with you.

Thats the spirit

Thom