Which Brakes?

[yan355]

Hi There

My Gti is coming up for new discs and pads at 36k

Ive got a couple of issues with them

Theyve always made a graunching noise at low speeds (vw say all is fine and as the brakes work ok no real comeback on the warranty side so ive lived with it)

Stopping wise there ok but with remap turned on a bit more power would be nice

 interested in knowing peoples experiences reccomendations of different disc/pad combinations.

Ideally i'd like to fit drilled discs as from a looks perspective I think they look better but dont have a clue when it comes to which are the best

What I dont want to do is spend money on a big brake kit just replace what ive got with something better if possible.

Any help gratefully appreciated

Cheers

Yanek

[Teutonic_Tamer]

OK, so many questions asked, and so many yet to be answered.

Firstly, do I presume that they have lasted 36k miles from new?  If so, then I would suggest you arn't particularly hard on your brakes. 

Regarding the graunching noise, this is simply down to poor maintenance.  There was a recent thread on this forum about noisey brakes in the winter at low speeds - so try the search function!   

Drilled discs will NOT offer any increase in braking performance.  90% of drilled discs on the market are just for show.  The ONLY time drilled discs offer any real effect on braking is when brake fade is occuring - the drilled holes allow the gasses released by the pads to 'bleed' away from the surface of the discs into the central venting area.

Do NOT bother with braided steel lines, nor any kind of 'uprated' Dot5.1 brake fluid - as neither offer any improvement in braking effort.  And Dot5.1 will invalidate your warranty, and also fcuk up your ABS/ESP assembly.


Onto recommendations.  Depending on your budgetary constraints, and actual requirements - will decide what you need to do.

The first and best option would be to make sure that the standard brakes are correctly maintained.  And I don't just mean new discs and pads.  I actually mean make sure that the brake calipers are thoroughly cleaned and de-rusted - especially in the guides for the 'hammer heads' on the brake pads.  Make sure all metalic sliding surfaces are lubricated and protected with a high quality nickel-based anti-seize compond (95% of 'copper' greases on the market are shyte - only the original 'Copaslip' made by Molyslip is any good).  And make sure that all the sliding rubber surfaces are lubricated with the correct silicone based brake grease.  If you get any petroleum based grease on rubber components, it will cause the rubber to swell and sag, and can cause both the caliper piston and the caliper slides to 'stick'.

The next suggestion would be some uprated brake pads - such as Ferodo DS2500 or Mintex 1144 (I think that is the correct Mintex part!  ).  Don't bother with EBC pads, they arn't all they are claimed, and there are much better 'uprated' pads.

If that aint enough, and you wanted to keep the 'OEM look', then you could use the 345mm front brakes from the R32/S3/Leon Cupra.

Finally, if you have silly money to burn, then there are many, many options available.  Alcon, Brembo and AP Racing are probably the best 'well-known' brake components.  Another very high quality, but lesser known brake kit is by the German 'MovIt' (www.movit.com).  Then there are many other big brake kits available from the likes of Tarox (10-pot calipers  - which Hurdy has  ), ECS from over the pond, and probably a few more which I have missed.


Finally, the most important piece of advice for improving braking is TYRES.  Make sure you have some decent tyres, and if you have Dunlop SportMaxx - then ditch them asap.

HTH

[Egbutt Wash]

"A proverb is a short sentence based on long experience."

Cervantes

[yan355]

Hi Many thanks for your reply -

Yes the brakes have lasted 36k including what I thought was some reasonably spirited driving although perhaps my version of spirited is different to others.

Appreciate what youve said re ensuring that the brakes are properly maintained and set up regardless of which set up. Hadnt really thought of that tbh - very good point.

You comments on drilled discs echo what I thought id seen elsewhere. Must be a bit of a tart though as I do like the looks.

My car is a 2006 with Monza 2 alloys with Vredestein Ultratec Sessanta which replaced the previous Dunlops. They are much better in both wet and dry conditions but oddly much worse in icy conditions - as recently found out. One other thing is that they have a pressure guide of 35 psi which I thought was quite high and have noticed much decreased MPG after fitting them.

It seems ive three choices as I dont want to spend megabucks on the brakes.

1.Stick with replacing like for like - as the cars nearly out of warranty not so bothered by that

2.Going aftermarket with something like Tarox/Neuspeed Drilled Discs(do like the looks)from Awesome Gti (near me) and your pad suggestion.

3 Fitting R32 Brakes - do I understand it correctly that I can fit R32 Discs on the front and stick with the GTI ones on the back? Also do I understand that ill have to get the calipers painted red to match the oem? or will the existing Gti calipers work with the larger disc ie they just bolt straight on?

Can you get aftermarket drilled discs the same size for the R32 which will fit the Gti?

Cheers

Yanek

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Hi Many thanks for your reply -

You're welcome. 

Yes the brakes have lasted 36k including what I thought was some reasonably spirited driving although perhaps my version of spirited is different to others.

How long do your front tyres last, because that is a good general guide of how much use the front end gets.  (Though you could be someone who hardly brakes at all, but regularly spins the front wheels ).

You comments on drilled discs echo what I thought id seen elsewhere. Must be a bit of a tart though as I do like the looks.

OK, as long as you understand that drilled discs wont offer any increase in braking effect, and you are just buying them on looks, then that is fine. 

My car is a 2006 with Monza 2 alloys with Vredestein Ultratec Sessanta which replaced the previous Dunlops. They are much better in both wet and dry conditions but oddly much worse in icy conditions - as recently found out.

That is simply down to the way the Vredestein develop their grip.  They have a relatively hard rubber compound, but a very soft carcass - so when they are cold, they offer little grip.  But when the carcass 'flexes' it builds up heat in the tread rubber, and gives you grip.    So whilst the Vredesteins may be good when you can get some heat in them, they are not ideal at this time of year.

One other thing is that they have a pressure guide of 35 psi which I thought was quite high

Why do you think that 35 psi is 'high'.    The Golf5 is a heavy car, quite a bit heavier than say a Mk3 or Mk2 - and the pressure in the tyre is proportional to the weight of the car.  Why do you think the GTI also needs 'eXtra Load' tyres, as well.  I actually run my GTI at 42psi front, 37 psi rear.  And on my RS4, 48psi up front and 45 psi rear.  At the end of the day, the pressures on the sticker are just 'recommended' pressures, and should really be tweaked by the owner to suit a/ the actual tyre they are using, and b/ their individual driving style.

and have noticed much decreased MPG after fitting them.

Then I would seriously recommend increasing the tyre pressures.  And can you confirm that you have the extra load tyre rating - because if you don't, that could make quite a difference, not to mention invalidating your UK and EU insurance.

3 Fitting R32 Brakes - do I understand it correctly that I can fit R32 Discs on the front and stick with the GTI ones on the back? Also do I understand that ill have to get the calipers painted red to match the oem? or will the existing Gti calipers work with the larger disc ie they just bolt straight on?

OK, for the OEM 345mm route - if you want to stick with the standard red GTI rears, then simply go for the current Seat Leon Cupra - which has the 345mm front end, but red painted calipers.  But by keeping the stock rears, and just upgrading the fronts, you are likely to suffer from an imbalance of braking effect from front to rear - not really dangerous, but it can produce some undesired effects.  There are many on this forum who have done this kind of set up (or who have gone the full aftermarket BBK on the front), and are happy with it though.

But if you want to upgrade to the larger OEM vented rears, then you can either get the R32 front and rear setup which is painted blue, or you can get the current Audi S3 setup (same size as the R32), but with gloss black painted calipers.  I would personally prefer the black painted S3 setup, but ETTO.

Can you get aftermarket drilled discs the same size for the R32 which will fit the Gti?

I dunno, but if you do want 'R32' sized drilled discs, then you must also use an appropriately sized brake caliper.

[Merlinman]

One reason why Yanek's front brakes lasted 36k is that it was my car for the first 10k - and I drive like a 'wendy'  '

On my previous Golf (1.9TDi) I got to 57k before the brakes needed changing....

[Teutonic_Tamer]

One reason why Yanek's front brakes lasted 36k is that it was my car for the first 10k - and I drive like a 'wendy'  '

On my previous Golf (1.9TDi) I got to 57k before the brakes needed changing....

Yikes . . . . I best not tell you how long they lasted on my last S4 then! 

[Jimp]

If I remember right the Seat Leon Curpa brakes are the same size as the R32 brakes but painted red if you want red ones 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

If I remember right the Seat Leon Curpa brakes are the same size as the R32 brakes but painted red if you want red ones 

Yup - but I said that earlier in the thread.    Keep up at the back! 

[Jimp]

If I remember right the Seat Leon Curpa brakes are the same size as the R32 brakes but painted red if you want red ones 

Yup - but I said that earlier in the thread.    Keep up at the back! 

I'll go back to sleep so