Author Topic: New tyres time..  (Read 32532 times)

Offline Cass

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Re: New tyres time..
« Reply #90 on: 03 March 2009, 21:08 »
This thread's gonna run and run :grin:

Cass
Now: VW Touareg Altitude V6 TDI 3.0 240 bhp, Diamond Pearlescent Black
Previous: MY2007 GTI, 3 door, manual, pearlescent black and lots of toys - gone to a good home : )

Offline pitch3110

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Re: New tyres time..
« Reply #91 on: 03 March 2009, 22:39 »
This thread's gonna run and run :grin:

Cass

naaaaahhhhhh, I think it will end soon.....

Kumho's all the way............................... :laugh:

Offline Egbutt Wash

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Re: New tyres time..
« Reply #92 on: 03 March 2009, 23:06 »
Sunny SN3800's are popular with the 4wd subaru wrx crowd.
Should be OK for a GTI (but not mine, I'm going upmarket and splashing out on some Kumho's)
Currently digging a bunker.

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: New tyres time..
« Reply #93 on: 04 March 2009, 08:30 »
Rototest only obtained 328 bhp from the RS4, only 79% of the power claimed by Audi.

http://www.rri.se/popup/performancegraphs.php?ChartsID=769

(The GTI got 97% of the claimed power and 103% of the claimed torque)

http://www.rri.se/popup/performancegraphs.php?ChartsID=605

Ohhhhhh dear . . . do Rototest have more knowledge and expertise, and more importantly, have a higher standard of peer review accreditation than say the "Deutsches Institut für Normung e.V." - commonly known as "DIN"?  I personally doubt it.  I also doubt that Rototest removes all engines from the car, and tests them on an engine dynomometer, under strict laboratory conditions!  :rolleyes:  Another question, what result did they get from the Audi R8?

Finally, Audi, just like ALL German car makers, do NOT declare power outputs in 'bhp' - they actually measure it in 'kilowatts' as per the DIN engine testing standard.  :smug:
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: New tyres time..
« Reply #94 on: 04 March 2009, 08:33 »
According to Wikipedia (usual health warning), the RS4 was quicker around the Top Gear test track than the M5.

M5 did it in 126.2

and if you look in the notes down the bottom it says:
Quote
Top Gear Series 7, Episode 2 2005.11.20 – Jeremy Clarkson: "You know we put it around the track this morning, with the Stig driving it, OK, 1:25-point-something." – Actual lap not shown. Also Clarkson said that the RS4 is "more than a second quicker than the Cayman", so the RS4 is at least 1:25.7 around the track.

My money would be on the RS4 any day. 4WD>80 extra bhp.

Yup.  I really don't know why anyone would think that the BMW M5 lard barge is going to be quicker than an RS4.

Maybe R32UK also thinks that John Prescott is quicker over the 110 metres hurdles than Iwan Thomas!  OK, granted, Prezzer may be quicker with his right hook though!  :wink:  :evil:
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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Offline R32UK

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Re: New tyres time..
« Reply #95 on: 04 March 2009, 09:28 »
According to Wikipedia (usual health warning), the RS4 was quicker around the Top Gear test track than the M5.

M5 did it in 126.2

and if you look in the notes down the bottom it says:
Quote
Top Gear Series 7, Episode 2 2005.11.20 – Jeremy Clarkson: "You know we put it around the track this morning, with the Stig driving it, OK, 1:25-point-something." – Actual lap not shown. Also Clarkson said that the RS4 is "more than a second quicker than the Cayman", so the RS4 is at least 1:25.7 around the track.

My money would be on the RS4 any day. 4WD>80 extra bhp.

Yup.  I really don't know why anyone would think that the BMW M5 lard barge is going to be quicker than an RS4.

Maybe R32UK also thinks that John Prescott is quicker over the 110 metres hurdles than Iwan Thomas!  OK, granted, Prezzer may be quicker with his right hook though!  :wink:  :evil:

 :rolleyes: And the 0-60 times for the above mentioned cars are????? :tongue:

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: New tyres time..
« Reply #96 on: 04 March 2009, 09:39 »
Ha ha, interesting thread. Tyres are such an emotive subject aren't they?

Yup, but then tyres really are such a crucial component on a car - and the more a car relies on its 'handling', the more importance the tyres have.  And on the Mk5 GTI, crap tyres really can mess up the handling.

Everyone has an opinion, everyone thinks they are right, but the reality is that one make is good for one, and not for another. It all comes down to what you expect from a tyre and how you drive.

Agreed, and some tyre brands can be a bit like 'Marmite'.

At the end of the day though, most of the premium brand tyres are more than adequate (but when seeking out the very limits, or very extremes of tyre performance, then some tyres excel in certain areas, whilst others may excel in other areas).  And some of the lesser, 'mid-range' tyres can also be good.

But the big problem with the mid-range tyres is that they are very inconsistent.  Take Kumho - OK, their 'top of the range' high-performance tyre might well be very good (as seems to be the case from testimonies here  :smiley:) - but the rest of their tyres in the Kumho range are fookin shyte, with some (particularly their fuel-saving 'energy' tyre) being lethal.  :angry:  But with say Michelin, ALL of the tyres in their range, from their fuel saving Energy Saver at one end - all the way through to their super-sports tyre the Pilot Sport PS2 - are all superb tyres.  At the end of the day, you can drive any kind of car, and if it is wearing Michelins, you know their tyres will perform, and not let you down.  That is why they are used as OEM factory fits by so many manufacturers.  But unfortunately, Michelin seem to suffer from not being 'cool' or trendy - many peeps think that Yokohama are a 'cool' tyre brand - but they have produced some truely shocking tyres over the years - but because they are 'marketed' in a certain way, to a certain demographic - they keep selling.  Bridgestone are another brand seen as cool, probably due to their involvement in F1 - and whilst they have made some very good high performance road tyres, in all honesty, there are much better boots than what Bridgestone offer

Don't always believe what you read on the internet, trust TUV ratings, and the factory test drivers, these guys know what's good and what's rubbish, but as i said, it's all personal opinion.

I sort of agree.  But like any kind of 'test' - if you design the test in a specific way, you can actually 'target' the results to favour one particular attribute.  For example - when Which test tyres, they place a heavy emphasis on tyre price, another heavy emphasis on availability, and so on.  Yet the real important tests such as wet cornering grip, wet braking, and the likes - they give less emphasis too.  So with Which, you could have a tyre that is tops in wet grip, tops in dry grip - but just because it costs £20 more, and is only available from one tyre chain (or internet only) - then it will come below a banana-skin Trayall, which costs 20 pence per tyre, and is available at every single outlet.  :sick:  Just consider what Mark Twain wrote.  :wink:
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: New tyres time..
« Reply #97 on: 04 March 2009, 09:42 »
The M3 CSL is a stripped out track car. I thought this was a pissing contest between the RS4 and the M5.

Since you mentioned it, the RS4 is four seconds quicker around the 'ring' than the M5. So conclusive proof then that the Audi RS4>BMW M5. :wink:


Max, you are my new 'best mate'.  :kiss:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:

But seriously, again with the M3, can it really carry 5 people in comfort and luxury like the RS4 can?  Can the rear seat passengers get out of their own doors?  :tongue:  And can an M3 carry even 2/3rds of the luggage capacity of the RS4?  Nope to all three.  :smug:
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: New tyres time..
« Reply #98 on: 04 March 2009, 09:57 »
Quote from: Teutonic_Tamer

But not in the same league as an RS4.  It is all down to weight, when it comes down to things like 'stresses on tyres'.  It is a well-known fact that if you double the mass (weight) of an object, then the increase in forces is actually the 'square' of that double.

I think you'll find that F=ma


Ahahaha nice one smoothcall!

To understand the above equation, if you doubled the mass then the force would have to also double to give the same acceleration.

Quote from: Teutonic_Tamer
the mass (weight) of an object

Also, mass does not = weight, weight is a measurement of force. Weight = mass x acceleration of gravity. So you cannot just weight something and then use it in the F=ma equation.

Mass DOES equal weight.  OK, I accept that 'technically' weight is a measurement of force - but that is simply the actuall mass of an object, multiplied by the force of gravity.  So if you can give me examples of Richard Branson taking an RS4 into outer space, then we have to conceed that here on earth, gravity is a constant.

And I don't really agree with that formula.  I can't specifically back up my concern.  However, it is categorically well-known, and actually taken as fact - in all areas of motor vehicle engineering, including motorsports engineering - that if you double the mass/weight of something, then you need to square the forces (to accelerate, brake, corner, etc).  Why do you think that Formula 1 cars, and racing bikes - even racing bicycles are so light, and if no minimum weight regulations were in force, then F1 cars would probably end up weighing 2/3rds, maybe even half what they currently weigh.

And to confirm this, some research done in the early 1990s by the governments TRL - they tested negative acceleration forces from vehicles of different weights - and the results were truely shocking.  They crashed a 38tonne truck into a wall and measured the forces - and when the truck was travelling at the (supposedly  :rolleyes:) governed 56mph - the force it hit the wall was compared with an average family car (I think they used a Moandeo) - and they proved that the car would need to be travelling at 200 mph to reach the same forces as the 38tonne truck at 56mph!!!!!  :shocked:  :shocked:  :shocked:  :shocked:  Naturally, this report wasn't seen to be in the best interests of 'fair enforcement' of speeding vehicles - because motorcyclists 'latched on' to this, citing they were unfairly being targeted, when the damage they do when hitting another object was relatively negligable compared to even a car, nevermind fookin gerrt juganaughts !
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: New tyres time..
« Reply #99 on: 04 March 2009, 10:02 »
According to Wikipedia (usual health warning), the RS4 was quicker around the Top Gear test track than the M5.

M5 did it in 126.2

and if you look in the notes down the bottom it says:
Quote
Top Gear Series 7, Episode 2 2005.11.20 – Jeremy Clarkson: "You know we put it around the track this morning, with the Stig driving it, OK, 1:25-point-something." – Actual lap not shown. Also Clarkson said that the RS4 is "more than a second quicker than the Cayman", so the RS4 is at least 1:25.7 around the track.

My money would be on the RS4 any day. 4WD>80 extra bhp.

Yup.  I really don't know why anyone would think that the BMW M5 lard barge is going to be quicker than an RS4.

Maybe R32UK also thinks that John Prescott is quicker over the 110 metres hurdles than Iwan Thomas!  OK, granted, Prezzer may be quicker with his right hook though!  :wink:  :evil:

 :rolleyes: And the 0-60 times for the above mentioned cars are????? :tongue:

I don't know, and to be honest, I don't really care.  What I DO care about is that in 'every day', 'real world' motoring, including the stuff we get a fair bit of (rain), then the RS4 is a way better car.  I can use 100% of my RS4s abilities 365 days a year, come rain or shine, including snow (well not quite 100% of the RS4 in the snow - but 100% more than the M5 could).
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
-----
'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo