how does a remapped Gti fair against standard edition30?

[ilovedsg]

Hi, first post on here though I've been lurking for a while.

No-one seems to talk about e-maps, is there a reason for this?

My Mk5 DSG has an e-maps remap supposedly giving me about 250 hp and feels fantastic.

I paid £375 which seemed cheap compared to some and Simon came to me (and has reflashed once since free)

Think there's are Oettinger maps, is that right and if so are they considered good?

[illyun]

Oettinger have a long and unrivalled heritage when it comes to VAG tuning, but got into financial trouble a couple of years back I think.  APR from the USA bought them and from what I know, the APR remap isn't much different from the Oettinger remap, if not the same, although I would have thought differences would at least exist to allow for the rubbish fuel in the USA.  If the e-map is based on or is the Oettinger remap, then I'd say its a good base to start with. However, I think the experience and know-how of the person applying and tweaking the map is equally as important.  Your e-map might feel fantastic - and maybe it is a very good map and I can't say either way - but you never know whats going on underneath the bonnet and what the long-term effects will be, which is why I went to an established and very experienced tuner like Revo.

My own experience is with Revo, but I'd say that APR, Oettinger, GIAC and Superchips are on a similar level.   There are other reputable, but not so well known (which doesn't mean they are inferior) smaller tuners like AMD, R-Tech and VWR who also provide remaps.  R-Tech have a very good reputation on this forum and are one of its sponsors, while I have personally driven the VWR demo car and can attest to its superb remap which is used on the offical VW Racing track cars - I think VWR are the only offically permitted producers of Scirocco track cars for VW motorsport use, so they're pretty good too.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

^^^^
What can any of us do, including yourself of course, but recommend what we believe to be true. I think this was one of the points made by Hurdy in his post.

I don't have a problem with that above comment at all - and I think you know full well that that is the case.    What I AM concerned about, is when someone has been provided categorical proof which - for whatever reason - somehow doesn't sit entirely true with the 'belief' of that original person.  But that person still contiunues to spout  the same old BS.  Your "VWR Quaife diff" is a classic example!

It would be exceedingly tedious for us all to write "In My Opinion" in every single post - Surely that's taken for granted.

Not always - and what is so tedious about typing IMHO   It is no more tedious than your "^^^^", or your ". . . . ." which you start you posts with! 

Anyhow, we are all getting a little picky, and making mountains out of molehils. 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

The advantage of RTech in this case would be that they do data logging runs before/during/after to make sure it's all healthy, rather than just flashing a generic map and sending you on your way.

Thats not an Advantage of RTech per se as it depends on which Revo dealer you go to.  I'm sure there are some dealers who just slap it on and send you on your way, but there are excellent ones in reach no matter where you live who also spend time on your car before and after a map, change adjustable parameters on the Revo map to suit your car and who also have a rolling road which shows exactly what you've got.  BTW I've got nothing against Nick who I've heard nothing but good about on this forum, but if it was my car, I'd go with Revo or another major vendor anyday.

And isn't the above the ONLY way which Superchips works! 

But yes, I basically agree - there are some tuners who do 'all the right things' before applying the remap, and there are others who don't - and sadly, these can occur irrespective of whos' software they are using.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

But my second, and more crucial concern actually addresses certain 'individuals' who state these recommendations.  Some of these may actually be - well - dare I say it - more than a little gullible - and wouldn't actually know the truth even if someone was BSing them.  These types can actually recommend a product or service, when they personally believe it is good.  However, when alternative POV come to light, these same peeps seem to have great difficulty in shifting their own opinion - and adamantly continue to 'recommend' even after conflicting evidence is bought to light!

....Funny you should say that - I had an open mind until sometime proclaiming themself as an expert was very vocal on here, often with much vitriol, about how bad a certain tuner whose name begins with 'S' was (and also certain other motorsport businesses). I believed him until my own experiences showed me otherwise and I consequently changed my POV. I also changed my POV about that person's 'expert' advice generally.

And who might that be?

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Hi, first post on here though I've been lurking for a while.

Welcome to the forum then!   

No-one seems to talk about e-maps, is there a reason for this?

My Mk5 DSG has an e-maps remap supposedly giving me about 250 hp and feels fantastic.

I paid £375 which seemed cheap compared to some and Simon came to me (and has reflashed once since free)

I've never heard of them.  Got a link?  How did you first find out about them?

Think there's are Oettinger maps, is that right and if so are they considered good?

Oettinger have always been very highly regarded, and are one of the few VAG-only tuners.  Unfortunately, they have never really been marketed very well in the UK, and (I think) RSD were probably their only agent here in Blighty.

There are also other highly regarded VAG-only tuners too, which include MTM, Abt, APR, B&B, Dahlbäck Racing - and probably a few more besides - with MTM arguably being at the top of the proverbial tree.

[RedRobin]

^^^^
What can any of us do, including yourself of course, but recommend what we believe to be true. I think this was one of the points made by Hurdy in his post.

I don't have a problem with that above comment at all - and I think you know full well that that is the case.    What I AM concerned about, is when someone has been provided categorical proof which - for whatever reason - somehow doesn't sit entirely true with the 'belief' of that original person.  But that person still contiunues to spout  the same old BS.  Your "VWR Quaife diff" is a classic example!

....I later posted that I had made a mistake in my understanding about the Quaife which VWR use and I edited all those posts which I was able to access. Keep up, T_T!

It would be exceedingly tedious for us all to write "In My Opinion" in every single post - Surely that's taken for granted.

Not always - and what is so tedious about typing IMHO   It is no more tedious than your "^^^^", or your ". . . . ." which you start you posts with! 

Anyhow, we are all getting a little picky, and making mountains out of molehils. 

....Agreed - That is getting far too picky. My use of "^^^^" is invariably to communicate to the reader that I am referring to the previous post without it always being necessary to insert a full quotation. "IMHO" is common to every single post on every single car forum (unless the poster is intentionally lying!) - Therefore it goes without repeating everytime.

I use "...." to drop the first line in the layout - It's because professional typography/layout is hardwired in me. If you don't like it, I'm afraid that's just tough.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Oettinger have a long and unrivalled heritage when it comes to VAG tuning, but got into financial trouble a couple of years back I think.  APR from the USA bought them and from what I know,

Really!        They are still listed as a German private company (GmbH - which is equvalent to a UK 'Limited' company), trading under German law (Bad Homburg)?

the APR remap isn't much different from the Oettinger remap, if not the same, although I would have thought differences would at least exist to allow for the rubbish fuel in the USA.

I think all the APR products for the Mk5 are simply 'rebadged' Oettinger products - their intercooler is a classic example.

If the e-map is based on or is the Oettinger remap, then I'd say its a good base to start with. However, I think the experience and know-how of the person applying and tweaking the map is equally as important.  Your e-map might feel fantastic - and maybe it is a very good map and I can't say either way - but you never know whats going on underneath the bonnet and what the long-term effects will be, which is why I went to an established and very experienced tuner like Revo.

I fully agree.  I would personally think it is vital.   

There are far too many people who can now simply purchase a load of 'generic' maps from a non-descript German, Dutch or wherever software 'tuning company' - and then simply re-sell them as though they were their own work.  Some of these resellers will even tweak the maps further themselves, and neither the target car, nor any development car has never even had a sniff at a rolling road.  Which is why I too would prefer to use a more 'established' tuner, but equally as important, a tuner who has proven relevent experience on your own particular engine.

So, whilst Nick at R-Tech does indeed have very good reviews, his 'knowledge base' seems to be mainly centred on the 1.8 20vT and the 1.9TDI - and he seems to have little experience of any FSI engine, be that the 2.0 TFSI, or any of the Audi V6 or V8 FSI engines.  So unfortunatley, neither my GTI nor my RS4 won't be remaped by Nick - which is sad, because he really does seem to be one of the rare breed of genuine guys out there. 

My own experience is with Revo, but I'd say that APR, Oettinger, GIAC and Superchips are on a similar level.

In what way?

There is absolutely no way that Superchips could EVER be described as a 'VAG specialist' - and this was highlighted on a Fifth Gear test a little while back - where Superchips failed miserably.

And whilst GIAC are a VAG specialist, and they have been shown to make very good power, there is still the concern that they do not have access to 'European' maps, and so have no real in-depth knowledge of the 'stratified' fuel delivery mode.

There are other reputable, but not so well known (which doesn't mean they are inferior) smaller tuners like AMD, R-Tech and VWR who also provide remaps.

Agreed again.  But the trouble with these lesser known or smaller tuners - is simply how do they stack up in the long hall.  And regarding 'motorsport' companies (and I am NOT singling out just VWR here), I would very strongly suggest that a 'motorsport' map is not at all suitable for a 'road car', for a whole variety of reasons.

I have personally driven the VWR demo car and can attest to its superb remap which is used on the offical VW Racing track cars - I think VWR are the only offically permitted producers of Scirocco track cars for VW motorsport use, so they're pretty good too.

Without dragging up old stuff again, I would strongly doubt that VWR are the only official company allowed to provide their services! 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

^^^^
What can any of us do, including yourself of course, but recommend what we believe to be true. I think this was one of the points made by Hurdy in his post.

I don't have a problem with that above comment at all - and I think you know full well that that is the case.    What I AM concerned about, is when someone has been provided categorical proof which - for whatever reason - somehow doesn't sit entirely true with the 'belief' of that original person.  But that person still contiunues to spout  the same old BS.  Your "VWR Quaife diff" is a classic example!

....I later posted that I had made a mistake in my understanding about the Quaife which VWR use and I edited all those posts which I was able to access. Keep up, T_T!

But you still have it in your sig!       

But, yes, you are correct, in that you did 'correct' your misunderstanding, and I have to fess up that I had forgoten that crucial little oversight on my personal behalf!  :embarassed:  Anyhow, lets keep the peace, and keep it friendly, even if we do disagree.   

It would be exceedingly tedious for us all to write "In My Opinion" in every single post - Surely that's taken for granted.

Not always - and what is so tedious about typing IMHO   It is no more tedious than your "^^^^", or your ". . . . ." which you start you posts with! 

Anyhow, we are all getting a little picky, and making mountains out of molehils. 

....Agreed - That is getting far too picky. My use of "^^^^" is invariably to communicate to the reader that I am referring to the previous post without it always being necessary to insert a full quotation. "IMHO" is common to every single post on every single car forum (unless the poster is intentionally lying!) - Therefore it goes without repeating everytime.

I use "...." to drop the first line in the layout - It's because professional typography/layout is hardwired in me. If you don't like it, I'm afraid that's just tough.

Ohhh, sh!t, I didn't mean to say I didn't like the way you post, or you pagination or what ever - I was simply trying to use it as an example.  Sorry for any misunderstanding!  :embarassed:

[RedRobin]

^^^^
Ooops!! Thanks for pointing out my sig needed updating about the Quaife, T_T! I missed that one but have updated elsewhere.