GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: TANK on 16 October 2008, 16:25
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hi folks im new to the vw scene just bought a golf syncro it currently has a 1.8 8v gti engine but i want a 2.0 and im looking for a easy cheap as possible transplant iv read the threads you lot prefer the 16v this is just a weekend car as i have a 350z aswel but im not a machanic just looking for a straight forward transplant without replacing as many parts as possible and to a budget
cheers guys
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2.0 bottom end from a MKIII Gti will be what you want. Engine code of 2E and I think also AGG.
Nick
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Put your 350Z engine in there :grin:
Seriously though, the 2.0L 16V ABF from the MK3 seems to be the favoured cheap engine which you can pick up on ebay or scrappies. If you're lucky you can get a VR6 lump pretty cheap which may have more power straight off but it's heavier so not favoured as much, but OMFG the sound of a VR6 can not be beat by any of the VAG range of that era.
If you've got about £3k-£5k you can get the 1.8T from many of the VAG range which is very tunable.
2.0 bottom end from a MKIII Gti will be what you want. Engine code of 2E and I think also AGG.
Nick
^ That's also a nice cheap mod :wink:
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Probs is Jay that the Syncro set up standard can't handle tons of power. DH is your man for this but I believe anything over 150 horses and you need to start swapping out the running gear for Rallye spec stuff.
nick
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3.5v6 haha it would be different
cheers guys i would be happy with 140 150bhp
just want a straight forward engine swap
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I've heard that the late syncros have the same gear as a Rallye, but I have no idea what year 'late' is or even if its true! danny or diamond will probably chip in.
by far the easiest way for a 2.0 is a MK3/Passat/Vento 2.0 8v bottom end as said, run it on all the old head and existing managment. 2.0 16v is a bit more of a challenge but you get more power out of the box!
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late syncros haveing rallye running gear is a myth. 1990 ones saw various bits change to make the back end compatable with passat g60 stuff but the gearbox box remaned the same.
2.0 bottom end is the easyest swap and will give more grunt but 140 - 150 is a very big ask for the std RHD exhaust system to support and doing anythign about the exhaust system gets very involved quickly. you may have to attch the block with an angel grinder to clear the gearbox i had to when put a bubbel block in with rod change tall blocks may be diffrent. and you'll want a good clutch if plan to drive it hard it's 210 and thats thebiggest that'll fit the gearbox but with extra torque and bugger all wheelspin they wear a bit
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Sorry forgot about the running gear involved :sad:
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late syncros haveing rallye running gear is a myth. 1990 ones saw various bits change to make the back end compatable with passat g60 stuff but the gearbox box remaned the same.
2.0 bottom end is the easyest swap and will give more grunt but 140 - 150 is a very big ask for the std RHD exhaust system to support and doing anythign about the exhaust system gets very involved quickly. you may have to attch the block with an angel grinder to clear the gearbox i had to when put a bubbel block in with rod change tall blocks may be diffrent. and you'll want a good clutch if plan to drive it hard it's 210 and thats thebiggest that'll fit the gearbox but with extra torque and bugger all wheelspin they wear a bit
so whats my best option
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How much do you want to spend?
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How much do you want to spend?
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Golf Syncros fitted with Rallye running gear - oh how we laughed. Go on, tell us how the Porsche engine fits 'straight in' the back of a Beetle.
OK, there is no easy option for a *good* engine transplant in a Syncro - it was VW's 'budget' 4WD. They used a lot of 'budget' components on it, including the rod change gearbox, in which the diff is actually made of cheese. On a 2WD Golf the wheels spin, so you get away with a rod-change for 150+BHP. The Syncro doesn't have the option of wheelspin - it'll just break stuff instead.
This means, as already outlined that you're in trouble with anything over 120bhp (which you could get out of a GU with a GTI head on it and a Weber carb). So you need a cable-change 'box from a Rallye or a Passat Syncro (both LHD only). There's £250-350 already. If you fit that you'll need the Rallye only O/S driveshaft and a GTI N/S shaft. The Rallye shaft is another £150 at least.
Next up, you'll have noticed that the bigger power 4WD stuff of this vintage is LHD only - there's a reason for this. The RHD downpipe from the Syncro looks like a small snake that's been wound around the car. Where the exhaust could go in LHD there's a steering column. Because no one very few people upgrade RHD Syncros there are no 'performance' upgrades for them. You'll need to either cut and shut a Rallye downpipe and the firewall (as I did) or fabricate a tubular manifold and downpipe, as we did on Danny's car. You'll need a welder and lots of GTI downpipes to weld together, oh and a plate flange for the manifold.
You lost interest yet?
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well thats the final word on that then! wonder who started that myth off...
how close is a passat setup, I guess its a bit too long and a bit wide at the rear? are the chassis mounting points on the rear passat syncro frame in the same place as a golf one, or spaced apart further? I ask because was reading thru a mk2 syncro build on the vortex and he used all passat gear, but it wasnt a syncro to start with so I'm not sure how much custom work was involved underneath...
I guess the G60 syncros from DE land used all Rallye running gear right? It's pretty much the same car except for a few extras?
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I've not dissected a Passat set up so I'm not 100% on the detail differences. I know it uses different (longer) driveshafts. I also can't remember whether the 2WD 35i Passat used a torsion rear beam, but if it did then I suspect the underbody story there would be much like the Golf one - big differences.
The big difference Golf Syncro vs the higher Golfs and the Passat is the cable-change gearbox - a much stronger unit. There are myriad differences though. The rear diff unit on the Syncro set-ups from that era only has detail differences between the models. It's all very similar in that area. Except the VR6 models, which use a different (Matched) final-drive ratios, as well as a different bellhousing for the 6 cylinder motor.
On a 2WD UK spec Golf you're into replacing the tunnel with the high-tunnel out of the Syncro, and the boot floor, too. Not hard..... if you're good at cutting and welding. It'd be a b!tch if things weren't straight though!
The high tunnel is a massive benefit to the shell as it stiffens the whole structure massively - you can jack up one corner and the shells just don't sag at all. Obviously this has benefits for the handling of the car, as well as the independent set up in the back, which stops the Syncro cars cocking a wheel in corners.
The only Golfs that got the high-tunnel shell in the UK were the Golf Syncro. In Germany it was used on the 2WD G60 GTI as well as the G60 Syncro and the Limited, of course.
The Rallye shell is much heavier than the high-tunnel shell. It was designed to support VW's drive into rallying, so has masses of reinforcement, which really isn't necessary in a road car. Oh and it's got two less doors and most of the panels are unique to it. So aside from that, yeah it's pretty much the same shell.....Both models were fitted with bonded screens though.
The high-tunnel shell is the best compromise in my eyes; it gets you a car that looks like yer regular Golf, rather than a Rallye, which sticks out like a sore thumb full of obsolete parts.
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Cool all good info!
I know the passat front subframe is wider, meaning it cannot be used on a MK2. Was wondering if the mounting points at the back were also spaced further apart, which would mean cannot easily be used as a drop in on the 'normal' mk2 syncro shells. Any idea if the corrado tunnel is similar enough to the MK2 G60/syncro tunnel to be used, since it shares alot with the MK2 shell but is it similar enough... If so would be a good source of the higher tunnel.
Theres a yellow twin engine 20vt corrado build up in the clubgti forums which is a good source of pics for the shell, apparently theres a lot of strengthening done on there nicked from the G60 plus I assume bits from the rallye as well, and things that were nicked off the Passat. One that springs to mind is a cutout at the bottom of the rear inner arch which apparently was on the passat for syncro rear beam clearance or something!
On yours did you put in the higher boot floor, or did you make up a custom tank?
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so whats my best option? 2.0 8v bottom end if i do that what will i have to do to get it in?
the little i spend the better want the outside looking mint
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the passat has longer driveshafts, but the rear diss is the same, the trailing arms are also apparently the same with the width differancebeen in the sub frame, whitch makes sense all, syncros includeing rallye use 90mm cv joints on the rear as well.
also there is a big differance between "some / all " of the rallye gearboxes compared to syncro ones the rallye gearbox (ASU) has a cast iron transfer case whitch is soposed to be stonger but it also has a sepearate oil to the gearbox holding only 0.5 ltr iirc so if an oil leack develops a small leack over time can destroy the transferbox, wheas the G60 gearboxes have ali transfercases and common oil supply so the transfer case can't run dry so easly
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so whats my best option? 2.0 8v bottom end if i do that what will i have to do to get it in?
the little i spend the better want the outside looking mint
Sell up and buy a scooby for 2k Reasonable power and a half decent 4wd system! :lipsrsealed:
:smiley:
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Sell up and buy a scooby for 2k Reasonable power and a half decent 4wd system! :lipsrsealed:
:smiley:
Traitor!
so whats my best option? 2.0 8v bottom end if i do that what will i have to do to get it in?
the little i spend the better want the outside looking mint
2.0 8v bottom end it is, hopefully someone will come along with a bit more info on how to change the bottom end.
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true scoobys can be had for bugger all now but they have there problems and plenty of them
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OK, well actually an early EVO would be a whole lot better, it's just they are alot rarer.
(http://www.organisys.com/VW/g60_5.jpg)
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OK, well actually an early EVO would be a whole lot better, it's just they are alot rarer.
(http://www.organisys.com/VW/g60_5.jpg)
very true
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On yours did you put in the higher boot floor, or did you make up a custom tank?
Eh?
the little i spend the better want the outside looking mint
If you're looking to spend very little on the set up, don't bother, just stick a PB head on, with a Weber 32/34DTML and a Kent cam.
Just make sure to replace the rear ARB with a Rallye item to dial out the understeer - it'll handle a lot better.
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...or just take the front arb off !!
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On yours did you put in the higher boot floor, or did you make up a custom tank?
Eh?
You have a syncro conversion right? or was it a factory one?
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If you're looking to spend very little on the set up, don't bother, just stick a PB head on, with a Weber 32/34DTML and a Kent cam.
He's already got a gti lump in there :wink:
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You have a syncro conversion right? or was it a factory one?
I know of very few people who are sad enough to convert a 2WD vehicle to 4WD.
I'm not one of them.
Factory Syncro FTW - I have better things to do with my life than badly replicate what VW built very well out of the box.
He's already got a gti lump in there :wink:
I'll believe that when I see it. £10 says if it is a GTI lump it'll have a Syncro manifold and downpipe, so it'll be down on power.
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oh i see, just the way matt was talkin about it I got the idea you made it up yourself
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well engine wise, sounds like your going to be bolting a 2.0 8v bottom end in, and propbaly just removeing the frount box, won't gain much power but lots more torqe below 5k
You have a syncro conversion right? or was it a factory one?
I know of very few people who are sad enough to convert a 2WD vehicle to 4WD.
I'm not one of them.
Factory Syncro FTW - I have better things to do with my life than badly replicate what VW built very well out of the box.
He's already got a gti lump in there :wink:
I'll believe that when I see it. £10 says if it is a GTI lump it'll have a Syncro manifold and downpipe, so it'll be down on power.
never build what you can buy !!!! if you can't buy it buy the closest thing to it, than take it competly disemble and scatter around the garage :grin:
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3 door syncro shell isnt something easily bought ;)
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There are plenty enough of them in Europe.
Importing one is hardly a tough job.
I'd be a touch windy about bolting in a 2.0 bottom end using the standard exhaust - it's very close clearances on the downpipe. you may find that a 15mm lift on the block is enough to screw things up for the alignment of the pipe - there's plenty of stuff for it to rub on.
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ummm be wanting an audi 3a engine then, will have to grind it a bit , and round one of the edges on the transfer case to get clearance tho