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Model specific boards => Golf mk4 => Topic started by: Rhyso on 05 October 2008, 20:46

Title: Rolling Road Results - data runs on Pg2
Post by: Rhyso on 05 October 2008, 20:46
Right after hi-jacking Dai's thread i've split it down

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/Rhyso/JKMRollingRoad.jpg)

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/Rhyso/Rollingroad-torque.jpg)

above is the plot of my power run and the one below is a plot of the car before the map

what i'm after is ideas and suggestions as why i'm not pulling peak torque until higher in the rev range

going to do some data logging later on but please throw forward ideas  :smiley:

Title: Rolling Road Results
Post by: dai-cymru on 05 October 2008, 20:50
nights my friend so will have to be weekend  :sad: why are you data logging?
Title: Rolling Road Results
Post by: Rhyso on 05 October 2008, 20:51
nights my friend so will have to be weekend  :sad: why are you data logging?

missing power between 1800 and 2600rpm - have a look here to see my graph

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=39185.230
Title: Rolling Road Results
Post by: dai-cymru on 05 October 2008, 20:56
nights my friend so will have to be weekend  :sad: why are you data logging?

missing power between 1800 and 2600rpm - have a look here to see my graph

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=39185.230

your not missing power to me looks like it's topping out and levveling off. diesels have more low down torque so i think thats right, try ask nick from rtec
Title: Rolling Road Results
Post by: Rhyso on 05 October 2008, 20:59
nights my friend so will have to be weekend  :sad: why are you data logging?

missing power between 1800 and 2600rpm - have a look here to see my graph

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=39185.230

your not missing power to me looks like it's topping out and levveling off. diesels have more low down torque so i think thats right, try ask nick from rtec

i did and he said its got a flat spot  :sad:  apparently all the remap company have done have taken the VW map (complete with flat spot) and just upped the power - gives great results but doen't get rid of any underlying problems

need to determine if its something causing it or there is possibly a problem with the map  :undecided:
Title: Rolling Road Results
Post by: dai-cymru on 05 October 2008, 21:04
could be anything, fuel pump injectors air filter, plugs anything really, does it feel flat when driving
Title: Rolling Road Results
Post by: Rhyso on 05 October 2008, 21:08
could be anything, fuel pump injectors air filter, plugs anything really, does it feel flat when driving

not really but it probably explains why i seem to get a second surge at 2600rpm onwards  :undecided:

its more noticeable in 4th, 5th and 6th
Title: Rolling Road Results
Post by: dai-cymru on 06 October 2008, 12:30
could be anything, fuel pump injectors air filter, plugs anything really, does it feel flat when driving

not really but it probably explains why i seem to get a second surge at 2600rpm onwards  :undecided:

its more noticeable in 4th, 5th and 6th

if you cant really feel it dont worry about it
Title: Rolling Road Results
Post by: Rhyso on 06 October 2008, 12:33
could be anything, fuel pump injectors air filter, plugs anything really, does it feel flat when driving

not really but it probably explains why i seem to get a second surge at 2600rpm onwards  :undecided:

its more noticeable in 4th, 5th and 6th

if you cant really feel it dont worry about it

i can though  :sad: did a few test runs down to work this morning - you can feel it lag and then pull hard again
Title: Rolling Road Results
Post by: dai-cymru on 06 October 2008, 12:34
is it turbo lag you can feel?
Title: Rolling Road Results
Post by: Rhyso on 06 October 2008, 12:36
is it turbo lag you can feel?

not sure how to describe it - i can hear the turbo spooling up

the car pulls, just not really hard and then it hits 2500rpm and really goes!

you'd need to drive it to see what i mean but it feels a bit like yours - slow and then she'll suddenly pick up
Title: Rolling Road Results
Post by: dai-cymru on 06 October 2008, 12:37
is it turbo lag you can feel?

not sure how to describe it - i can hear the turbo spooling up

the car pulls, just not really hard and then it hits 2500rpm and really goes!

you'd need to drive it to see what i mean but it feels a bit like yours - slow and then she'll suddenly pick up

could be the map did you get that 2nd ecu? i know on petrol turbos lag can be caused by igintion timing but wont really count on a derv  :undecided:
Title: Rolling Road Results
Post by: Rhyso on 06 October 2008, 12:41
could be the map did you get that 2nd ecu? i know on petrol turbos lag can be caused by igintion timing but wont really count on a derv  :undecided:

still trying to source one - there's a few golfs being broken on Ebay so hoping they'll sell me the ECU

got to elminate the MAF and N75 valve first but i'll also try a 2nd map  :wink: purely for scientific purposes of course lol

going to split this thread as i've kind of properly hi-jacked it lol
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results
Post by: Rhyso on 06 October 2008, 21:50
bumpty bump  :smiley:
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results
Post by: RTechUK on 06 October 2008, 23:12
bumpty bump  :smiley:

Did you give me you ECU number?  send me it again if you can.  you can use VAGcom to get it, click on engine the there will be a VAG numer in the top left of the box.

Nick
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results
Post by: Rhyso on 07 October 2008, 07:58
bumpty bump  :smiley:

Did you give me you ECU number?  send me it again if you can.  you can use VAGcom to get it, click on engine the there will be a VAG numer in the top left of the box.

Nick

Number i pulled off this morning is 038 906 019 FG - make any sense to you?
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results
Post by: Rhyso on 07 October 2008, 11:38
righto

managed to do a little bit of data logging this morning - not ideal conditions mind - doing full throttle runs in 3rd and 4th gear in the wet is intersting to say the least lol

i logged the MAF and the intake pressure - brief look at it shows that i'm pulling the requested numbers  :undecided:

Data below shows full throttle in 3rd gear

Engine speed   MAF (specified)   MAF (actual)   Spec. intake press.   Actual intake press.
790-870                      230-310   210-350                      2200-2400                     2100-2600
 /min                        mg/str    mg/str                          mbar   

903                        255     240.1                    1050.6                      971.1
903                        255     249.9                    1050.6                      971.1
1029                        250     254.8                    1111.8                      971.1
1470                        615     524.3                    1611.6                    1193.4
1722                        610     739.9                      1530                                 1708.2
1932                        425     558.6                    1244.4                    1298.7
1995                        420      289.1                       1530                    1158.3
2163                        540      646.8                    1540.2                    1708.2
2016                        250     548.8                      999.6                    1181.7
1470                        625     563.5                     1795.2                    1322.1
1617                        805      779.1                        1734                    1790.1
1848                        850   1107.4                    2437.8                    2644.2
2247                        850   1171.1                    2458.2                    2433.6
2625                        850   1249.5                    2458.2                    2562.3
3003                        850   1156.4                    2458.2                    2468.7
3339                        850   1141.7                    2458.2                    2480.4
3654                        850   1107.4                    2458.2                    2433.6
3906                        850   1058.4                    2437.8                    2386.8
4116                        850   1024.1                    1081.2                    1860.3

Slight concern is the line i've highlighted - a drop in boost and MAF figures and then she gets going again

heres another 3rd gear full throttle run

   1533   355   352.8   1224   1123.2
   1554   285   279.3   1224   1064.7
   1554   310   313.6   1213.8   1064.7
   1533   305   303.8   1203.6   1064.7
   1533   305   303.8   1203.6   1064.7
1554   540   382.2   2172.6   1158.3
             1680   850   872.2   2366.4   2141.1
   2037   850   1004.5   2458.2   2492.1
   2457   850   1249.5   2458.2   2574
   2856   850   1166.2   2458.2   2480.4
   3213   850   1127   2458.2   2492.1
   3549   850   1087.8   2458.2   2445.3
   3843   850   1053.5   2315.4   2410.2
   3129   315   588   1030.2   1333.8
   2646   260   519.4   1020   1170

seems to happen at around the same point  :undecided:
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results
Post by: dai-cymru on 07 October 2008, 11:43
big drop there then mr rhys mmmmmmmmmm  :undecided:
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results
Post by: Rhyso on 07 October 2008, 11:55
big drop there then mr rhys mmmmmmmmmm  :undecided:

yeah thats what worries me  :sad:

after that though its all gravy
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results
Post by: ben1.8T on 07 October 2008, 11:56
That is quite a drop mate.  :huh: Im sure Nick will have an idea when his on here.
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results
Post by: dai-cymru on 07 October 2008, 12:03
big drop there then mr rhys mmmmmmmmmm  :undecided:

yeah thats what worries me  :sad:

after that though its all gravy


could be the map have to see what rtek can do  :smiley:
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results
Post by: Rhyso on 07 October 2008, 12:04
big drop there then mr rhys mmmmmmmmmm  :undecided:

yeah thats what worries me  :sad:

after that though its all gravy


could be the map have to see what rtek can do  :smiley:

need to get Nick a different ECU as mine is locked out  :lipsrsealed:
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results
Post by: dai-cymru on 07 October 2008, 12:18
DOH!! get on the phonbe to the breakers then  :wink:
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results
Post by: Rhyso on 07 October 2008, 12:30
DOH!! get on the phonbe to the breakers then  :wink:

made some enquiries already mate :afro:

few people on Ebay breaking some 130's
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results
Post by: dai-cymru on 07 October 2008, 12:31
DOH!! get on the phonbe to the breakers then  :wink:

made some enquiries already mate :afro:

few people on Ebay breaking some 130's

ah good work
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results
Post by: Rhyso on 07 October 2008, 12:37
DOH!! get on the phonbe to the breakers then  :wink:

made some enquiries already mate :afro:

few people on Ebay breaking some 130's

ah good work

you got the number of that breakers you picked your headlight up from?
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results
Post by: dai-cymru on 07 October 2008, 13:40
DOH!! get on the phonbe to the breakers then  :wink:

made some enquiries already mate :afro:

few people on Ebay breaking some 130's

ah good work

you got the number of that breakers you picked your headlight up from?

nope cant remember the name either   :sad:
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results
Post by: Rhyso on 07 October 2008, 13:41
DOH!! get on the phonbe to the breakers then  :wink:

made some enquiries already mate :afro:

few people on Ebay breaking some 130's

ah good work

you got the number of that breakers you picked your headlight up from?

nope cant remember the name either   :sad:

fecking useless :tongue:
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results
Post by: dai-cymru on 07 October 2008, 13:48
leon took me there, not my faulty
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results
Post by: richw911 on 07 October 2008, 19:06
Really strange that bud  :undecided:

 Bet nick from R-Tech can tell you whats wrong....

*Shouts for nick*  :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results - data runs on Pg2
Post by: RTechUK on 07 October 2008, 19:25
Not as bad as the run we had today on Ben's AUM, It made 209BHP as it should have done, but the ECU made a nice cut back in the torque due to high intake temps.  Normally the car is smooth as a babies bum.


Looking at the TDI dyno graph on Page one, it looks like the map file is a stronger file with the torque limiters capped in the ecu to keep the power lower, nothing bad just the characteristics of TDI remaps.

can you email me that VAGCOM log?

Nick

Title: Re: Rolling Road Results - data runs on Pg2
Post by: Rhyso on 07 October 2008, 19:33
Just sent you an email with the log

as per my email only had 2 chances for full throttle 3rd gear runs - near the beginning and the end

is it deliberately toned down then??  :undecided:

strange as Custom Code quote at least 170bhp for the power output...............

had no response from them on the matter either  :sad:
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results - data runs on Pg2
Post by: Rhyso on 07 October 2008, 20:13
was the ECU number i posted correct?  :undecided:
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results - data runs on Pg2
Post by: RTechUK on 07 October 2008, 21:30
was the ECU number i posted correct?  :undecided:

Yup thats the one m8.
This is what I get back.
VW Golf TDI 1,9 ASZ 038906019FG 130TDI PD
01-0576-00-02 standard, non-automatic

HW Bosch Number 0281010702 SW 1037362796   

Do you what want to know what your factory contains???

Downlopad winols demo from here  >>  http://www.evc.de/en/download/down_winols.asp

The send me an email to remaps@bigbhp.co.uk and I will send you the ori bin file to look at.

Nick
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results - data runs on Pg2
Post by: Rhyso on 07 October 2008, 21:53
was the ECU number i posted correct?  :undecided:

Yup thats the one m8.
This is what I get back.
VW Golf TDI 1,9 ASZ 038906019FG 130TDI PD
01-0576-00-02 standard, non-automatic

HW Bosch Number 0281010702 SW 1037362796   

Do you what want to know what your factory contains???

Downlopad winols demo from here  >>  http://www.evc.de/en/download/down_winols.asp

The send me an email to remaps@bigbhp.co.uk and I will send you the ori bin file to look at.

Nick


wow - thats  :nerd:

is there anything i should be looking for specifically?  did you get my VAG COM log?

Cheers Nick - your help is really appreciated!  :cool:
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results - data runs on Pg2
Post by: iMation on 10 October 2008, 10:16
Rhys, what blocks did you measure for this data logging?

Think i may need to fettle with my MAF a little
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results - data runs on Pg2
Post by: Rhyso on 10 October 2008, 12:08
Rhys, what blocks did you measure for this data logging?

Think i may need to fettle with my MAF a little

on mine is was something like block 2/3 for MAF - intake was block 11 but on petrols i think its block 115

i tried data logging on Dai's 2.0 but very few blocks could be measured  :sad:

@ NIck - did you get a chance to view my VAG COM log?
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results - data runs on Pg2
Post by: Rhyso on 12 October 2008, 14:52
okay - just done 4 full throttle runs from 30mph to the redline

seem to get the same results - a drop in MAF and intake pressure but looking at the RPM i would have expect it as the turbo is still spooling

it happens at approx 1700rpm and from then on she pulls above the requested figures  :undecided:
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results - data runs on Pg2
Post by: Rhyso on 12 October 2008, 20:30
here's a snapshot of the 4 runs

   Engine    MAF    MAF    Spec. .   Actual intake press.
TIME   speed  (specified)(actual)intake press
STAMP    /min    mg/str    mg/str    mbar   
191.14   1428   250   553.7   1897.2   1193.4
192.22   1596   850   749.7   2152.2   1766.7
193.3   1806   850   1092.7   2335.8   2562.3
194.38   2016   850   975.1   2427.6   2340
195.46   2226   850   1092.7   2458.2   2550.6
196.54   2415   850   1185.8   2458.2   2527.2
197.59   2625   850   1190.7   2458.2   2468.7
198.57   2793   850   1190.7   2458.2   2515.5
199.62   2961   850   1141.7   2458.2   2468.7
200.7   3150   850   1107.4   2458.2   2468.7
201.78   3297   850   1097.6   2458.2   2480.4
202.86   3444   850   1078   2458.2   2468.7
203.94   3612   850   1073.1   2458.2   2468.7
205.02   3738   850   1058.4   2458.2   2433.6
206.1   3864   850   1043.7   2458.2   2433.6
207.18   3969   850   1029   2437.8   2445.3
208.26   4095   850   1019.2   2417.4   2421.9
209.34   4200   850   994.7   2386.8   2398.5
210.42   4305   850   975.1   2366.4   2363.4
211.5   4389   850   965.3   2315.4   2340
212.56   4473   850   931   2274.6   2281.5
213.66   4557   850   901.6   2233.8   2234.7
214.74   4620   850   886.9   2172.6   2211.3
215.82   4683   850   867.3   2121.6   2176.2


244.93   1596   250   543.9   1050.6   1287
246.01   1596   255   289.1   1091.4   1146.6
247.09   1596   255   245   1101.6   1088.1
248.17   1659   440   401.8   1377   1170
249.25   1806   845   739.9   1795.2   1766.7
250.31   1974   765   837.9   1805.4   1860.3
251.41   1512   250   539   1479   1287
252.49   1638   850   769.3   2193   1825.2
253.57   1869   850   1176   2376.6   2726.1
254.65   2100   850   994.7   2448   2363.4
255.73   2331   850   1151.5   2458.2   2574
256.81   2562   850   1210.3   2458.2   2515.5
257.89   2793   850   1185.8   2458.2   2492.1
258.97   2982   850   1156.4   2458.2   2480.4
260.05   3192   850   1117.2   2458.2   2480.4
261.13   3360   850   1097.6   2458.2   2480.4
262.21   3507   850   1068.2   2458.2   2457
263.29   3654   850   1068.2   2458.2   2457
264.37   3801   850   1048.6   2458.2   2433.6
265.45   3906   850   1038.8   2448   2445.3
266.53   4011   850   1033.9   2437.8   2433.6
267.61   4116   850   1009.4   2417.4   2410.2
268.69   4221   850   984.9   2386.8   2398.5
269.77   4305   850   980   2366.4   2386.8
270.85   4368   850   955.5   2325.6   2351.7
271.93   4431   850   931   2295   2304.9
273.01   4494   850   916.3   2264.4   2281.5
274.09   4536   850   901.6   2244   2246.4
275.17   4578   850   891.8   2213.4   2211.3
276.25   4599   850   867.3   2182.8   2199.6

325.52   1512   255   303.8   1193.4   1158.3
326.6   1533   495   504.7   1356.6   1240.2
327.68   1554   535   534.1   1377   1450.8
328.76   1554   425   416.5   1346.4   1357.2
329.84   1575   545   553.7   1438.2   1439.1
330.92   1575   435   441   1285.2   1404
332   1533   325   323.4   1213.8   1216.8
333.08   1617   375   279.3   1693.2   1158.3
334.16   1890   850   828.1   2213.4   2012.4
335.24   1743   850   1117.2   999.6   2035.8
336.32   1638   850   661.5   2193   1567.8
337.4   1806   850   1019.2   2346   2457
338.48   1995   850   989.8   2427.6   2386.8
339.56   2184   850   1068.2   2458.2   2492.1
340.64   2373   850   1171.1   2458.2   2550.6
341.72   2562   850   1200.5   2458.2   2480.4
342.8   2751   850   1190.7   2458.2   2492.1
343.88   2940   850   1156.4   2458.2   2480.4
344.96   3108   850   1117.2   2458.2   2468.7
346.03   3255   850   1092.7   2458.2   2480.4
347.11   3402   850   1073.1   2458.2   2468.7
348.2   3528   850   1063.3   2458.2   2457
349.27   3654   850   1053.5   2458.2   2457
350.35   3759   850   1033.9   2458.2   2445.3
351.44   3885   850   1033.9   2448   2457
352.52   3990   850   1029   2437.8   2433.6
353.6   4095   850   1004.5   2417.4   2421.9
354.68   4200   850   984.9   2386.8   2410.2
355.76   4305   850   975.1   2366.4   2386.8
356.84   4389   850   955.5   2325.6   2351.7
357.92   4473   850   926.1   2284.8   2293.2
358.99   4557   850   901.6   2244   2234.7
360.07   4620   850   882   2182.8   2199.6
361.15   4683   850   862.4   2131.8   2176.2
362.23   4725   850   847.7   2080.8   2129.4
363.32   4788   850   833   2040   2106

410.72   1407   320   298.9   1213.8   1088.1
411.8   1449   430   411.6   1234.2   1181.7
412.88   1470   370   372.4   1224   1205.1
413.96   1512   355   352.8   1224   1193.4
415.04   1554   340   328.3   1234.2   1181.7
416.12   1596   330   318.5   1234.2   1170
417.19   1638   410   382.2   1326   1228.5
418.29   1743   570   578.2   1550.4   1532.7
419.37   1827   785   862.4   1795.2   2059.2
420.45   1470   250   524.3   2040   1392.3
421.53   1638   850   808.5   2182.8   1895.4
422.6   1869   850   1166.2   2366.4   2691
423.68   2100   850   1019.2   2448   2386.8
424.76   2331   850   1146.6   2458.2   2550.6
425.84   2562   850   1225   2458.2   2515.5
426.92   2793   850   1195.6   2458.2   2480.4
428   3003   850   1151.5   2458.2   2480.4
429.08   3171   850   1122.1   2458.2   2480.4
430.16   3360   850   1097.6   2458.2   2468.7
431.24   3507   850   1078   2458.2   2457
432.32   3654   850   1068.2   2458.2   2457
433.4   3780   850   1048.6   2458.2   2445.3
434.48   3906   850   1043.7   2448   2445.3
435.56   4032   850   1029   2437.8   2421.9
436.64   4116   850   1004.5   2407.2   2421.9
437.7   4221   850   994.7   2386.8   2421.9
438.78   4305   850   980   2366.4   2398.5
439.86   4368   850   955.5   2335.8   2351.7
440.94   4431   850   940.8   2295   2304.9
442.02   4473   850   921.2   2264.4   2258.1
Title: Re: Rolling Road Results - data runs on Pg2
Post by: RTechUK on 12 October 2008, 23:04
Put them in excel and convert the cvs file to a line graph to make the data easier to chew.   I have you two file un my UBS stick ready to put on the vans PC in the morning.

Nick