GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: Top Cat on 03 September 2008, 16:38
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This topic came up a while back and i remembered it was something that should not be done. but can anyone tell the peeps on here what the actual damage would be done to the gearbox if this was done regulary. :nerd:
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you shouldnt do it in any auto car!!
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It's all about the lubrication if I remember correct.
But give it five minutes and T_T will be along to make your brain hurt with the full technical explaination. :laugh: :wink:
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I have no clue what you are talking about Top cat (Whats new though :embarassed: )
Will wait for TT to fry our brains with info overload. :nerd:
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Sorry if this is a dumb question but by coasting do you mean changing to N (neutral) and letting the car run under its own momentum? For example when approaching stationary traffic I sometimes change to N and let the car free wheel for a bit before applying the brakes.
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yea!!^^^ shouldnt be doing that
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I have no clue what you are talking about Top cat (Whats new though :embarassed: )
Will wait for TT to fry our brains with info overload. :nerd:
Ok a couple of weeks back i mentioned that you should not put it neutral and cruise to a stop to save fuel.
Although most people know this is a no no a few people new to DSG did not, But when asked why you should not do this i was unable to tell them what the damage incurred would be. :embarassed: But the font of all knowledge is on-line so as you and SteveG said prepare for technical overload. :wink:
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i bet TT's only on his 3000th word by now, so his post will be finished soon :grin: :grin:
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Do NOT shift the DSG into N when the car is in motion. The DSG oil pump is on the far end of the box, and is driven by one of the input shafts. Therefore N = no (or very low) DSG oil pressure and oil flow.
Its the same reason why the DSG should never be towed. Even on conventional manual gearboxes, "wheels-on-the-ground" towing is strongly discouraged, and should only really be flat-bedded.
Furthermore, coasting in neutral actually uses MORE fuel - I'll let you chew over that whilst I nip out for a while, and have another play in the Touareg I'm borrowing at the mo! :wink:
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i bet TT's only on his 3000th word by now, so his post will be finished soon :grin: :grin:
^^^^^^ :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: ^^^^^^
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yea!!^^^ shouldnt be doing that
Cheers! I assume the others with DSG slip it into N when at a temporary standstill? It's a bit of a pain that the car creeps forwards when in D/S/tiptronic and it didn't take me long to get sick of holding the foot brake on at lights. Besides I think I read something in the manual about not holding her on the foot brake for long periods of time while at a standstill and in gear.
edit: Excuse the questions but I have only ever owned cars with manual boxes before the GTI
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yea!!^^^ shouldnt be doing that
Cheers! I assume the others with DSG slip it into N when at a temporary standstill? It's a bit of a pain that the car creeps forwards when in D/S/tiptronic and it didn't take me long to get sick of holding the foot brake on at lights. Besides I think I read something in the manual about not holding her on the foot brake for long periods of time while at a standstill and in gear.
edit: Excuse the questions but I have only ever owned cars with manual boxes before the GTI
Nothing wrong with the question, you might be asking, but i bet there is loads of people watching this wondering the same thing.
When you are holding it on the brake you are not damaging the clutch. but you are correct it is best policy to place in neutral if in a long que or think you are going to be stationary for a while. I find if i hold it on the brake i cant help creeping forward and it takes some getting used to at junction's.
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Is it OK to do it in the manuals then? :huh:
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Is it OK to do it in the manuals then? :huh:
Should be fine in a manual, over small distances, as there's oil pump to drive.
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Is it OK to do it in the manuals then? :huh:
Yes but only when your racing me. :laugh:
it alway's has been ok in manuals, but to be perfectly honest i dont know with modern cars :undecided:
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Off topic....
Top cat. Please email me some pics of your car on 08micsta@wbhs.org.za
I cant stand that sig of yours... The resolutions is all wrong and I cant ignore it any longer :lipsrsealed:
I will make you a sig...
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Micsta i find that offensive it took me 1 hour with all my photo bucket skills to do that. :laugh: :laugh:
Just to let you know how good my computer skills are here is a new one i did for Mr greenouse. But for some reason when i offered it to him he respectively declined. :wink:
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm104/tomashandmilly/greenhouse_2-1.jpg) :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
Thats brilliant!!! I agree its much better than the useless one I did for him :evil:
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:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
Thats brilliant!!! I agree its much better than the useless one I did for him :evil:
Send me some photo's Micsta i will knock you one up when i get chance.StevePG and Redrobin have been pestering me to do there's :grin: :smug:
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I will email you a few
raunchy GTI ones later :evil:
You can have some fun. You have not seen my previous sexy sigs :drool:
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I will email you a few raunchy GTI ones later :evil:
You can have some fun. You have not seen my previous sexy sigs :drool:
:wink:
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:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
Thats brilliant!!! I agree its much better than the useless one I did for him :evil:
Send me some photo's Micsta i will knock you one up when i get chance.StevePG and Redrobin have been pestering me to do there's :grin: :smug:
So come on then TC/Chuckles the Cat, what would you do for a signature pic for me????? :grin: :grin:
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Does anyone elses Dsg Ed30, seem very severe when sat stationary, Car wants to do at last 3-4 mph when i release the footbrake in drive,
whereas the 2 previous standard GTi dsg's ive had where alot less fierce.
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SHEEEEEEEEEEEET I always go into neutral (being a cheapskate an all) when going downhill etc... :sick: :sick: :sick: :cry: :cry: :cry: :embarassed:
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SHEEEEEEEEEEEET I always go into neutral (being a cheapskate an all) when going downhill etc... :sick: :sick: :sick: :cry: :cry: :cry: :embarassed:
How often have you done it :sad: and is it DSG.
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Does anyone elses Dsg Ed30, seem very severe when sat stationary, Car wants to do at last 3-4 mph when i release the footbrake in drive,
whereas the 2 previous standard GTi dsg's ive had where alot less fierce.
Yep mines the same, compared to a normal GTI and a new TT i have driven with DSG the pull is much stronger on the ED30.
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Does anyone elses Dsg Ed30, seem very severe when sat stationary, Car wants to do at last 3-4 mph when i release the footbrake in drive,
whereas the 2 previous standard GTi dsg's ive had where alot less fierce.
Yep mines the same, compared to a normal GTI and a new TT i have driven with DSG the pull is much stronger on the ED30.
Its probably the memory in the DSG you too drive round like miss Daisey. :laugh: I bet it's remembering your top speed on your last track day. :wink:
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Does anyone elses Dsg Ed30, seem very severe when sat stationary, Car wants to do at last 3-4 mph when i release the footbrake in drive,
whereas the 2 previous standard GTi dsg's ive had where alot less fierce.
Yep mines the same, compared to a normal GTI and a new TT i have driven with DSG the pull is much stronger on the ED30.
Its probably the memory in the DSG you too drive round like miss Daisey. :laugh: I bet it's remembering your top speed on your last track day. :wink:
LOL, everyone know's the Grey (and Red) GTI's are much faster than 80's style Candy White one. :wink: :laugh: :laugh:
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grey ed30's were faster, white S3's are faster :laugh:
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grey ed30's were faster, white S3's are faster :laugh:
Silver one's stop the fastest :rolleyes:
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I remember seeing somewhere that most modern engines use NO fuel when you are coasting in gear. I.e going down hill in 6th gear but with foot off the loud pedal. Where as if you knock the car into neutral going down hill the engine has to use fuel to avoid stalling. Please feel free to ridicule me if I'm wrong. :lipsrsealed:
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Actually it sounds like a good theory :cool:
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Am I right TT am I, am I???? :grin:
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I remember seeing somewhere that most modern engines use NO fuel when you are coasting in gear. I.e going down hill in 6th gear but with foot off the loud pedal. Where as if you knock the car into neutral going down hill the engine has to use fuel to avoid stalling. Please feel free to ridicule me if I'm wrong. :lipsrsealed:
No, you are correct (sort of). The engine map will see that you do not have your foot on the pedal when in gear and use a very minimal ammount of fuel, to say it uses NO fuel is just plain silly lol (engine would cut out . . . . ). Where as if you leave it in N it will use x ammount of fuel to keep the revs at tick over.
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I remember seeing somewhere that most modern engines use NO fuel when you are coasting in gear. I.e going down hill in 6th gear but with foot off the loud pedal. Where as if you knock the car into neutral going down hill the engine has to use fuel to avoid stalling. Please feel free to ridicule me if I'm wrong. :lipsrsealed:
No, you are correct (sort of). The engine map will see that you do not have your foot on the pedal when in gear and use a very minimal ammount of fuel, to say it uses NO fuel is just plain silly lol (engine would cut out . . . . ). Where as if you leave it in N it will use x ammount of fuel to keep the revs at tick over.
Why would the engine cut out?? as you are in gear and the wheels are turning the engine you don't need fuel to keep it going? Again probably wrong, but thats what I believed.
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yea!!^^^ shouldnt be doing that
Cheers! I assume the others with DSG slip it into N when at a temporary standstill?
It depends. If I'm in a queue, inching forward, then stopping and so on, I just leave in D (or tip mode). However, if I'm at red traffic lights, it is handbrake on and straight into neutral.
It's a bit of a pain that the car creeps forwards when in D/S/tiptronic and it didn't take me long to get sick of holding the foot brake on at lights. Besides I think I read something in the manual about not holding her on the foot brake for long periods of time while at a standstill and in gear.
Yeah - but the creep is the same for conventional autos too. But on conventional autos, they have a fluid flywheel/clutch, and could sit all day long in gear with the foot on the brake (providing the oil cooler is up to scratch).
Agreed, not good to keep your foot on the footbrake. OK, its not particularly bad for low speed stop start around town stuff, but if you have just had a high speed stop for some red lights or sommat, then keeping the foot on the brake pedal can warp the brake discs, due to "heat-soak" from the pads.
edit: Excuse the questions but I have only ever owned cars with manual boxes before the GTI
We all gotta learn new things sometimes in our lives! :wink: :smiley:
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When you are holding it on the brake you are not damaging the clutch.
Wrong. When the car is stationary, in gear (with the engine running), and the foot is on the brake - the clutch is being held on the "bite-point". With the DSG having a wet clutch (running in oil), it is designed to cope with this for very small periods of time. However, holding a stationary DSG in gear with the footbrake is exactly the same as holding a manual car, say on a hill without the handbrake, and just relying on slipping the clutch - not good! (And a driving test failure, and also a very short clutch life).
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Is it OK to do it in the manuals then? :huh:
Do what in manuals - coasting, or holding a stationary car with the footbrake?
If it is the first, then absolutely not. And I've no doubt it would be illegal too - you could be prosecuted for sommat like "failure to be in proper control of a motor vehicle". Don't know exactly what part of the Road Traffic Act it comes under, but I'd guess at 6 points and a £2,500 fine!
If it was the latter, then see my reply of two posts earlier.
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Is it OK to do it in the manuals then? :huh:
Should be fine in a manual, over small distances, as there's oil pump to drive.
Huh - manual gearboxes don't have oil pumps in them, only DSGs, conventional autos, and CVTs!
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Micsta i find that offensive it took me 1 hour with all my photo bucket skills to do that. :laugh: :laugh:
Just to let you know how good my computer skills are here is a new one i did for Mr greenouse. But for some reason when i offered it to him he respectively declined. :wink:
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm104/tomashandmilly/greenhouse_2-1.jpg) :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
i really really lol'd :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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TT would it be worth doing a sticky for the doooz and dont's in a DSG its a very expensive piece of kit and it seems only you who understands what is good for it. I personally think a lot of people on here would benefit from a few tips on how to use it properly. I know the manual tells us these thing's but it does'nt tell me why. :nerd:
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I remember seeing somewhere that most modern engines use NO fuel when you are coasting in gear. I.e going down hill in 6th gear but with foot off the loud pedal. Where as if you knock the car into neutral going down hill the engine has to use fuel to avoid stalling. Please feel free to ridicule me if I'm wrong. :lipsrsealed:
No, you are correct (sort of). The engine map will see that you do not have your foot on the pedal when in gear and use a very minimal ammount of fuel, to say it uses NO fuel is just plain silly lol (engine would cut out . . . . ).
Nope. In ALL modern fuel injected engines (petrol, and electronic fuel injection, before anyone gets pedantic), when the engine revolutions are higher than the expected load requirements from the ECU and thottle position sensor, the fuel delivery is dramatically reduced (and specifically on FSI engines, this is when they go into "Stratified", or lean-burn mode - except in the US, because of their shyte petrol :rolleyes:). However, following on from this in the same vein, when the engine revolutions are higher than the programmed tick-over/idle speed, and the throttle pedal is fully closed, then fuel delivery at the fuel injectors is completely cut-off. Zilch, zippo, nill, zero fuel is injected. :nerd:
What keeps the engine turning is down to simple physics - called kinetic energy. Imagine pushing a beach ball off the top of the cliffs at Beachy Head, once its over the edge, does the ball stop falling when you stop pushing it? :smug:
Where as if you leave it in N it will use x ammount of fuel to keep the revs at tick over.
Correct.
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Micsta i find that offensive it took me 1 hour with all my photo bucket skills to do that. :laugh: :laugh:
Just to let you know how good my computer skills are here is a new one i did for Mr greenouse. But for some reason when i offered it to him he respectively declined. :wink:
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm104/tomashandmilly/greenhouse_2-1.jpg) :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
i really really lol'd :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
Me too - nearly fell off me fcukin zimmer frame. TC, that gets my vote for "post of the day award".
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Well done that man :)
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TT would it be worth doing a sticky for the doooz and dont's in a DSG its a very expensive piece of kit and it seems only you who understands what is good for it. I personally think a lot of people on here would benefit from a few tips on how to use it properly. I know the manual tells us these thing's but it does'nt tell me why. :nerd:
OK.
Start a thread, and make some kind of "question and answer" kinda post, and I'll try to fill in the blanks. It would be easier if you lot did it, because you know all the questions, if that makes sense! :wink:
We will all have to behave very "un-Mk5-like" though. (Keep the bloody thread on topic!)
Question for the day - has there ever been a thread in this Mk5 section which has truely remained on topic?? :evil:
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TT would it be worth doing a sticky for the doooz and dont's in a DSG its a very expensive piece of kit and it seems only you who understands what is good for it. I personally think a lot of people on here would benefit from a few tips on how to use it properly. I know the manual tells us these thing's but it does'nt tell me why. :nerd:
OK.
Start a thread, and make some kind of "question and answer" kinda post, and I'll try to fill in the blanks. It would be easier if you lot did it, because you know all the questions, if that makes sense! :wink:
We will all have to behave very "un-Mk5-like" though. (Keep the bloody thread on topic!)
Question for the day - has there ever been a thread in this Mk5 section which has truely remained on topic?? :evil:
Yes when somebody asks about ice cream or woman. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Stop it Topcat!!
You gonna make this thread go off topic in a bad way! :grin:
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Question for the day - has there ever been a thread in this Mk5 section which has truely remained on topic?? :evil:
Yes - the one's with no answers :grin:
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SHEEEEEEEEEEEET I always go into neutral (being a cheapskate an all) when going downhill etc... :sick: :sick: :sick: :cry: :cry: :cry: :embarassed:
How often have you done it :sad: and is it DSG.
Its dsg and i've done it a few times :lipsrsealed:
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SHEEEEEEEEEEEET I always go into neutral (being a cheapskate an all) when going downhill etc... :sick: :sick: :sick: :cry: :cry: :cry: :embarassed:
How often have you done it :sad: and is it DSG.
Its dsg and i've done it a few times :lipsrsealed:
oh well i wouldnt worry, theres good old vw warranty for another 2 years mate :smiley:
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SHEEEEEEEEEEEET I always go into neutral (being a cheapskate an all) when going downhill etc... :sick: :sick: :sick: :cry: :cry: :cry: :embarassed:
How often have you done it :sad: and is it DSG.
Its dsg and i've done it a few times :lipsrsealed:
oh well i wouldnt worry, theres good old vw warranty for another 2 years mate :smiley:
Yeah.. suppose so. But I feel like a right idiot :sad:
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SHEEEEEEEEEEEET I always go into neutral (being a cheapskate an all) when going downhill etc... :sick: :sick: :sick: :cry: :cry: :cry: :embarassed:
How often have you done it :sad: and is it DSG.
Its dsg and i've done it a few times :lipsrsealed:
oh well i wouldnt worry, theres good old vw warranty for another 2 years mate :smiley:
Yeah.. suppose so. But I feel like a right idiot :sad:
Hi illyun this is the reason i started the thread in the sticky section lots of people are unsure on the effects and problems caused by in-correct use of the DSG the statement above by phil might make you feel better but i personally would not have a clue what the answer would be. I cant see the dealer saying well there is excessive wear in this gearbox for some reason mr Illyun but dont worry that's why we give you a warranty.
Hopefully Mr TT will give us some definitive answer's. :smiley: