GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: Hurdy on 12 May 2008, 10:57
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BUT..............only for a few days :laugh:
The long wait is nearly over and my car has gone in for some much needed mods.
Just as a refresher ....with a new addition, here are the mods going on.
1. Eibach coilovers - lowering 35mm
2. Autotech front and rear 25mm lightweight ARB's (felt them today and they are really light!)
3. Rear hubcentric spacers to fill the arches.
4. APR torque arm insert
5. Forge Twintercooler (sprayed black with black hoses)
6. Autotech fuel pump upgrade (they will look at the lobe and bucket for wear at the same time)
7. New addition - Autotech uprated injectors - JBS are going to put these on as well to see if the car gets any benefit from them. If it looks like it doesn't and the turbo is nearly at it's max capacity, then they will remove them and obviously there's no charge.
8. Full car specific custom remap to suit the mods on the car.
I'm getting just a little excited now :laugh:
Roll on the rolling road day :evil:
Only 3 mods left then:-
1. Brake upgrade to the TAROX 10 pots, which I've been told are on their way back from Italy with new bell housings :drool:
2. New alloys and tyres for those special days
3. Quaife ATB LSD.
Can't wait :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
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Nice1, keep us informed, I'm sure you were gonna :smiley:
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I had a feeling you might have been the first to reply Gary :wink:. How are you finding the new pump?
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niceeeeeeeee, bet all that is costing a house!
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....Fecking hell, Hurdy!! That's hardcore!
Before I opened this thread I was convinced you'd parted with her!!
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Expensive and hardcore for sure, but hopefully worth going the extra mile seeing as I've alrady travelled the first 25 :nerd:
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Show off... :grin:
Looks like my RR figures will be in the weeds come the 7th.. :sad: :wink:
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And there i was expecting to see..."My Car has gone and iv settled for a GT-R!"....oh well lol....sounds good Hurdy! Would deffinatley be interesting to see how much bhp you get after all these bits...good luck! :smiley:
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Only 3 mods left? Absolute rubbish mate, I'm sure we can come up with a few more after that :cool:
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Nice, Going to be an absolute animal when its finished. When the brakes are on you'll be embarassing some serious machinery on track days.
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Well done John, looking foward to seeing the results at inters. Is the Butterfly lady making a 2nd apearance as you said you had a spare copy! :wink:
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Well done John, looking foward to seeing the results at inters. Is the Butterfly lady making a 2nd apearance as you said you had a spare copy! :wink:
You'll have to wait and see :wink:
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oh. my. gowd!!
Looking forward to see what the beast will make on the 7th :evil:
Only 3 mods left? Absolute rubbish mate, I'm sure we can come up with a few more after that :cool:
2nd'd
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Show off... :grin:
Looks like my RR figures will be in the weeds come the 7th.. :sad: :wink:
JBS say that the mods should take me to the limit of the K04 turbo, after that you'd need a Garret turbo conversion to pull more from the engine. They reckon a Garrett 30 conversion will pull 450 from a 1.8 and so should pull even more from a 2.0 :wink: They did a 1.8VRS conversion a while back which made 450 bhp on the turbo conversion and another 150bhp with NOS injected :shocked:
These guys ain't shy. They are also developing a MKIV twin scroll tubo'd R32 with 600+bhp :shocked: :shocked:
My insurance is also due and I've been quoted £585 with all the mods like for like replacements, free windscreen cover £150 excess, Fully comp, no claims protected, unlimited miles per year, inclusive of insurance abroad for £585. So not too bad there either seeing as none of the run of the mill companies will touch me anymore :sad:
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My insurance is also due and I've been quoted £585 with all the mods like for like replacements, free windscreen cover £150 excess, Fully comp, no claims protected, unlimited miles per year, inclusive of insurance abroad for £585. So not too bad there either seeing as none of the run of the mill companies will touch me anymore :sad:
I am paying a lot more than double that for my standard GTi, crazy stuff.
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My insurance is also due and I've been quoted £585 with all the mods like for like replacements, free windscreen cover £150 excess, Fully comp, no claims protected, unlimited miles per year, inclusive of insurance abroad for £585. So not too bad there either seeing as none of the run of the mill companies will touch me anymore :sad:
I am paying a lot more than double that for my standard GTi, crazy stuff.
Yes but:-
1. I'm 43
2. It is garaged every night (unless I'm at work)
3. Clean licence
4. 1 accident (not my fault) in last 5 yrs
5. Wife's licence is clean and no accidents.
6. Full no claims for the last 15 years
7. Still fit.
8. no legal issues.
So basically I've had to earn it :grin:
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Yeah, you might have a point with that :D
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I was gonna try blagging a lift in awesomes car on the 7th but feck that, gonna show us what all that dosh gets you??
1st in the que mate. :huh:
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Thought you had that eventual test drive in the RS4 for a minute then Hurdy and decided to go for one after the ride.. I take it you're committing to the mighty Ed30 for a while yet then
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I was gonna try blagging a lift in awesomes car on the 7th but feck that, gonna show us what all that dosh gets you??
1st in the que mate. :huh:
Lol, Gazbutmk5gti (Gary) has already reserved 1st place :grin:
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Thought you had that eventual test drive in the RS4 for a minute then Hurdy and decided to go for one after the ride.. I take it you're committing to the mighty Ed30 for a while yet then
Oh yes, The GTI will be staying regardless of which car I choose next. :cool:
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WOW! I didnt realise you were going that far mate.
Why didnt you go for the S3 IC instead of the Twintercooler?
I am over at JBS next week too :wink:
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Jeeez,some mod list that Hurdy..<looks out of office window,might as well be in a 1.4 polo come RR day>
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Jeez Hurdy
You told us a family member left you money but wow.... He must have really been kind. How much is all of this costing?? :laugh:
Might I make a suggestion? You should email VW about your GTi and see if you can get it involved in any car shows in the future. Your car is spectacular and would cause quite a sensation at a car show me thinks.
Obviously an update on your project thread is a must do when you get it back.
Mike
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Nice list there Hurdy. I thought that you had sold the car when I saw the thread title!!!!!
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Nice list there Hurdy. I thought that you had sold the car when I saw the thread title!!!!!
Same here! The Tarmac company will have a problem repairing the roads wherever you've been in that car! Some serious mods there.
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I was gonna try blagging a lift in awesomes car on the 7th but feck that, gonna show us what all that dosh gets you??
1st in the que mate. :huh:
Lol, Gazbutmk5gti (Gary) has already reserved 1st place :grin:
Thanx for that, the fuel pump mod is very worthwhile one, the low down, midrange grunt is smashin. Not good for tyres though :grin:, theres a delay on the milltek down pipes again :sad:
It will be really interesting to see what JBS can do, and what your car does on the rollers in June, and I'll look fwd to a ride in it :evil:
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I was gonna try blagging a lift in awesomes car on the 7th but feck that, gonna show us what all that dosh gets you??
1st in the que mate. :huh:
Lol, Gazbutmk5gti (Gary) has already reserved 1st place :grin:
Thanx for that, the fuel pump mod is very worthwhile one, the low down, midrange grunt is smashin. Not good for tyres though :grin:, theres a delay on the milltek down pipes again :sad:
It will be really interesting to see what JBS can do, and what your car does on the rollers in June, and I'll look fwd to a ride in it :evil:
Do you reckon you'll get your Milltek on for the RR Gaz?
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hope so!
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So do I.. Be a real shame if it's not. Be nice to get a result with all your mods on..
Looking forward to see what figures you uprated fuel pump boys achieve.. :wink:
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Cant wait to see what she does on the rollers at Awesome Hurdy!!! What are you hoping for? Im guessing 320-330 bhp or are you expecting more? I wish I had money to spend on my car like you!! :smiley:
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I would expect more than 320bhp.. As mine got that with just map and Milltek..
With all of Hurdy's goodies, i'd be wanting 340+ to be honest.. :tongue:
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Not sure if any one has asked but what about the DSG Gear box??Will it be able to handle it?? :smiley:
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Should be fine as long as its mapped to wind the torque up smoothly.
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....As topher says, except that it's not just about how the torque is 'wound up' but how the tuner limits the torque for a DSG gearbox - One reason why I would trust Revo above some of the other tuners.
VW usually allow a headroom of about +40%. The more you push the performance envelope, the more you risk reliability. Look at Mercedes McLaren F1 a few seasons ago - Untouchable performance but kept breaking.
300 ft lb / 400 Nm approximately the recommended torque limit for the GTI DSG box - I don't know the numbers for the Ed30. It might have exactly the same DSG box!!!! Oooops!! I hope not! :shocked:
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I'm hearing reports from the states that it'll take closer to 400ftlb so long as it isn't all hoofed across the trans in one big gob.. which can only mean good things for the development of the hybrid k04.
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Hurdy - you got it back yet :evil:
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....As topher says, except that it's not just about how the torque is 'wound up' but how the tuner limits the torque for a DSG gearbox - One reason why I would trust Revo above some of the other tuners.
VW usually allow a headroom of about +40%. The more you push the performance envelope, the more you risk reliability. Look at Mercedes McLaren F1 a few seasons ago - Untouchable performance but kept breaking.
300 ft lb / 400 Nm approximately the recommended torque limit for the GTI DSG box - I don't know the numbers for the Ed30. It might have exactly the same DSG box!!!! Oooops!! I hope not! :shocked:
Mine has Revo and made 362lb/ft :shocked:.. Wasn't expecting that at all.. More like 300lb/ft..
Waiting for RR on the 7th to see if it was a mis reading..
Runs mint though.. :wink:
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Well, what can I say. It's great to be back online again :smiley:
The car has been in and OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
I'm really pleased with the results. They haven't had it on the rollers for a full dyno and they are deliberately making me wait for the RR day at Awesome.
I didn't expect the difference that it has made overall to the car and how it performs.
The pull feels almost the same feeling I had in the Awesome GTI car, so I'd be suprised if it didn't make some good figures on the RR day. It now pulls from 100 to 140 like it did from 60 to 100 :evil:
Need brakes upgrading ASAP :laugh:
I was behind a car on a dual carriageway doing around 65-70 and pulled out to go past him and nailed it...........kickdown......wheelspin :shocked: :shocked:. Mind you I only have about the minimum legal tread left now, so a visit to the VW dealers is overdue for my new rubber.
James at JBS says that the KO4 has been set back just under its limit for safety and that the fuel pump is delivering enough fuel throughout the range. He also said that the injectors they put in didn't really make much difference as the pressure limit of the turbo can be reached without them by just using the uprated pump along with all my other mods.
He also said that the APR map was running very lean, so lean in fact that it should have cut in the safety protocol to reduce the pressure from the turbo.....but it didn't. The turbo just kept on with the pressure as the safety protocol that reduces the pressure had been disabled :shocked: He went as far as to say that if it was maxxed on an Autobahn it could have simply melted the engine :shocked:
NOT GOOD!
This also may be why my car didn't make the torque it should have as it was running too lean in the mid range.
Speaking to Gary it could be that the original Edition 30 map was an Oettinger one, but now APR have an uprated one of their own which may not disable the safety protocol.
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Looks like you've got the Ed30 you were after mate.. Sounds like a good 350 brake now bud.. :wink:
Thought you were going to JBS, or did you? :huh:
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Bagsy a ride on the 7th buddy :wink:
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Yes, I did go to JBS.
They haven't got premises as large as other places I've been to, but they are very friendly and knowledgable and gave me the confidence I needed in them to have the work done. They have suggested other possible modifications to carry out, but I'm happy for now with what they have done.
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Out of interest what else did they suggest?
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Bagsy a ride on the 7th buddy :wink:
No problems :smiley:
I'd better make sure I have plenty of petrol when I get there as there's quite a few people wanting to have a ride in her. :grin:
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Out of interest what else did they suggest?
Quaife LSD
Brake upgrade (already ordered!)
and if I wanted they are developing a Garrett GT30 turbo conversion, where you would have forged rods, injectors and a custom manifold. Good for 500bhp he is hoping. :shocked:
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Bagsy a ride on the 7th buddy :wink:
No problems :smiley:
I'd better make sure I have plenty of petrol when I get there as there's quite a few people wanting to have a ride in her. :grin:
*sticks hand in air* can i be added to that list too please - well not on the 7th, but when i see you next! :smiley:
Dinx :kiss:
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Bagsy a ride on the 7th buddy :wink:
No problems :smiley:
I'd better make sure I have plenty of petrol when I get there as there's quite a few people wanting to have a ride in her. :grin:
*sticks hand in air* can i be added to that list too please - well not on the 7th, but when i see you next! :smiley:
Dinx :kiss:
There's always room for you Dinx :kiss: :grin:
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Bagsy a ride on the 7th buddy :wink:
No problems :smiley:
I'd better make sure I have plenty of petrol when I get there as there's quite a few people wanting to have a ride in her. :grin:
*sticks hand in air* can i be added to that list too please - well not on the 7th, but when i see you next! :smiley:
Dinx :kiss:
There's always room for you Dinx :kiss: :grin:
Good work.... :tongue: :wink: :grin:
Dinx :kiss:
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do JBS do the ECS dogbone engine mount ?
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do JBS do the ECS dogbone engine mount ?
I don't know for sure, but they do sell ECS stuff, so I would have thought so. I took the APR insert with me, so it wasn't JBS that supplied it.
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do JBS do the ECS dogbone engine mount ?
I don't know for sure, but they do sell ECS stuff, so I would have thought so. I took the APR insert with me, so it wasn't JBS that supplied it.
have you picked it back up yet ?( the car), oh and whats the difference between the APR and ECS one, and where did you get yours
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do JBS do the ECS dogbone engine mount ?
I don't know for sure, but they do sell ECS stuff, so I would have thought so. I took the APR insert with me, so it wasn't JBS that supplied it.
have you picked it back up yet ?( the car), oh and whats the difference between the APR and ECS one, and where did you get yours
Yes, I've picked the car back up now. If you look a little earlier in this thread there is a quick report of how she is now with the new parts fitted.
APR technical development bods gave me the insert for free when I was tormenting them for information at Awesome GTI. They had made a lot of prototypes and tested them before they settled on the one for market and said it is the best balance between stiffness and wear resistance they could manage. The ECS one I have no knowledge of apart from knowing that it exists. There is always the third option of a Neuspeed one. If you click on the link below it gives a little info on both the ECS and Neuspeed inserts. :nerd:
http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/vw%20golfmk5/transmission.html
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JEEEEZALOOOO!! I didnt even bother to read this thread... and had no idea you were gonna do all that. That sounds like one mean machine there. Im gutted now I cant make the 7th or I would have happily put my name on that growing list. Sounds awsome... I would wanna keep hold of an investment like that... esp to show up all the other modded hot hatches out there :grin:
just out of interest we must be coming close to a turbo'd R32 money now :laugh: No??
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im convinced on the insert now. i feel it has really helped at points.
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the insert is great value for money but the full VF pendulim mount goes one step better but it's a little pricey.
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Yeah I've been looking at their engine mounts :rolleyes:
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Well, what can I say. It's great to be back online again :smiley:
The car has been in and OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
I'm really pleased with the results. They haven't had it on the rollers for a full dyno and they are deliberately making me wait for the RR day at Awesome.
I didn't expect the difference that it has made overall to the car and how it performs.
The pull feels almost the same feeling I had in the Awesome GTI car, so I'd be suprised if it didn't make some good figures on the RR day. It now pulls from 100 to 140 like it did from 60 to 100 :evil:
Need brakes upgrading ASAP :laugh:
I was behind a car on a dual carriageway doing around 65-70 and pulled out to go past him and nailed it...........kickdown......wheelspin :shocked: :shocked:. Mind you I only have about the minimum legal tread left now, so a visit to the VW dealers is overdue for my new rubber.
James at JBS says that the KO4 has been set back just under its limit for safety and that the fuel pump is delivering enough fuel throughout the range. He also said that the injectors they put in didn't really make much difference as the pressure limit of the turbo can be reached without them by just using the uprated pump along with all my other mods.
He also said that the APR map was running very lean, so lean in fact that it should have cut in the safety protocol to reduce the pressure from the turbo.....but it didn't. The turbo just kept on with the pressure as the safety protocol that reduces the pressure had been disabled :shocked: He went as far as to say that if it was maxxed on an Autobahn it could have simply melted the engine :shocked:
NOT GOOD!
This also may be why my car didn't make the torque it should have as it was running too lean in the mid range.
Speaking to Gary it could be that the original Edition 30 map was an Oettinger one, but now APR have an uprated one of their own which may not disable the safety protocol.
Now I don't wanna start a bun fight 'this tuner against this tuner etc', and at times I might sound biased cos I use Awesome alot, and I'm not doubting what JBS said, but whats strange Hurdy is your car didn't show its full potential on the APR map from the off. It was down on power and torque, 285bhp and 275lbs/ft if I remember, while mine was makin 300bhp and 300lbs/ft on the same map, and then the last RR day your car made about the same power and quite a bit less torque although you were running a full TBE milltek, while mine was on a standard system, 305bhp and 275lbs/ft on yours and 312lbs/ft on mine. It all seems a bit odd.
Like I said at the beginning its not a case of mine doing more then yours, or this tuner against that tuner, its just something I was thinking about after I spoke to you the other day, maybe something wasn't right from the off, can there be a software glitch with 1 map and not another of the same map, I dunno :tongue:
Anyway the JBS package sounds great and I could well have a trip over there after we see what results you get on the 7th :evil:, and after you take us for a spin :evil:
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I think I may be having a trip over to JBS as well Gaz. We will have to see how Hurdy's goes on the RR day at Awesome :smiley:
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Well, what can I say. It's great to be back online again :smiley:
The car has been in and OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
I'm really pleased with the results. They haven't had it on the rollers for a full dyno and they are deliberately making me wait for the RR day at Awesome.
I didn't expect the difference that it has made overall to the car and how it performs.
The pull feels almost the same feeling I had in the Awesome GTI car, so I'd be suprised if it didn't make some good figures on the RR day. It now pulls from 100 to 140 like it did from 60 to 100 :evil:
Need brakes upgrading ASAP :laugh:
I was behind a car on a dual carriageway doing around 65-70 and pulled out to go past him and nailed it...........kickdown......wheelspin :shocked: :shocked:. Mind you I only have about the minimum legal tread left now, so a visit to the VW dealers is overdue for my new rubber.
James at JBS says that the KO4 has been set back just under its limit for safety and that the fuel pump is delivering enough fuel throughout the range. He also said that the injectors they put in didn't really make much difference as the pressure limit of the turbo can be reached without them by just using the uprated pump along with all my other mods.
He also said that the APR map was running very lean, so lean in fact that it should have cut in the safety protocol to reduce the pressure from the turbo.....but it didn't. The turbo just kept on with the pressure as the safety protocol that reduces the pressure had been disabled :shocked: He went as far as to say that if it was maxxed on an Autobahn it could have simply melted the engine :shocked:
NOT GOOD!
This also may be why my car didn't make the torque it should have as it was running too lean in the mid range.
Speaking to Gary it could be that the original Edition 30 map was an Oettinger one, but now APR have an uprated one of their own which may not disable the safety protocol.
Now I don't wanna start a bun fight 'this tuner against this tuner etc', and at times I might sound biased cos I use Awesome alot, and I'm not doubting what JBS said, but whats strange Hurdy is your car didn't show its full potential on the APR map from the off. It was down on power and torque, 285bhp and 275lbs/ft if I remember, while mine was makin 300bhp and 300lbs/ft on the same map, and then the last RR day your car made about the same power and quite a bit less torque although you were running a full TBE milltek, while mine was on a standard system, 305bhp and 275lbs/ft on yours and 312lbs/ft on mine. It all seems a bit odd.
Like I said at the beginning its not a case of mine doing more then yours, or this tuner against that tuner, its just something I was thinking about after I spoke to you the other day, maybe something wasn't right from the off, can there be a software glitch with 1 map and not another of the same map, I dunno :tongue:
Anyway the JBS package sounds great and I could well have a trip over there after we see what results you get on the 7th :evil:, and after you take us for a spin :evil:
MIne did 320bhp and 362lbft @ Awesome with 1100 miles on her.. Just with Revo map and TBE Milltek.. :wink:
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Yeah, this is going to be very interesting to see on the Awesome rollers. I think it is great that so many cars will be going to the RR day and it should make for a good "live" forum day. :smiley:
Now I don't wanna start a bun fight 'this tuner against this tuner etc', and at times I might sound biased cos I use Awesome alot, and I'm not doubting what JBS said, but whats strange Hurdy is your car didn't show its full potential on the APR map from the off. It was down on power and torque, 285bhp and 275lbs/ft if I remember, while mine was makin 300bhp and 300lbs/ft on the same map, and then the last RR day your car made about the same power and quite a bit less torque although you were running a full TBE milltek, while mine was on a standard system, 305bhp and 275lbs/ft on yours and 312lbs/ft on mine. It all seems a bit odd.
Like I said at the beginning its not a case of mine doing more then yours, or this tuner against that tuner, its just something I was thinking about after I spoke to you the other day, maybe something wasn't right from the off, can there be a software glitch with 1 map and not another of the same map, I dunno :tongue:
Anyway the JBS package sounds great and I could well have a trip over there after we see what results you get on the 7th :evil:, and after you take us for a spin :evil:
I know what you are saying Gaz and agree that mine didn't have the power from the off. It was mainly due to this that I took this alternative path.
I know that JBS and Awesome don't "appreciate" each other professionally as well, although if someone tells you specifically that code *** which is a safety protocol that backs off the turbo pressure when it detects the engine is running too lean/hot has been disabled in the APR programming and that your car was running dangerously lean without the safety protocol there, I think you'd be rather pee'd off.
It maybe that the APR software has damaged my engine already in some way, but who knows :undecided:
I love what Awesome do generally, but I believe that on this particular occasion they got it wrong. Whether this was a "glitch" or a generic fault that they put right with the updated map I don't know. All I can say is that I am over the moon with the outcome now.
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It might be worth a word with Jim, I know he wouldn't knowingly sell something thats not right, I've bin dealing with him long enough to know this. I've gotta speak to him Monday anyway so I'll bring it up but won't mention any names, Tuner or yourself and see what he says
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All these maps going about these days who can actually modify the map, can Awesome change settings on the APR map or is it something APR have done, i was always of the opinion these companies(resellers) downloaded the map of a server, I am sure this was the case for my GIAC map as the seller downloaded my ecu 1st then went to GIAC to get my map.
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It depends if you go for the Generic map or not, Revo for example have the select switch which allow the user to make slight alterations so although generic it can be altered - CC do a generic map which I would think it just that but they also do a custom remap so they alter it specific for your car/driving style. Not 100% on APR options, think its similar to Revo but you have the different settings pre-loaded into the car which you can alter by the cruise if you have it.
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It might be worth a word with Jim, I know he wouldn't knowingly sell something thats not right, I've bin dealing with him long enough to know this. I've gotta speak to him Monday anyway so I'll bring it up but won't mention any names, Tuner or yourself and see what he says
Cheers Gary, That would be great. :smiley:
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It depends if you go for the Generic map or not, Revo for example have the select switch which allow the user to make slight alterations so although generic it can be altered - CC do a generic map which I would think it just that but they also do a custom remap so they alter it specific for your car/driving style. Not 100% on APR options, think its similar to Revo but you have the different settings pre-loaded into the car which you can alter by the cruise if you have it.
I have Revo - It's Stage1 but can very easily be up'd to Stage2. The important thing is that my tuner (one of Revo's best) can fine tune various settings either to suit me or the car. I don't know what I'm doing regards such settings so I leave it to the experts.
:cool:
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After this experience, I think next time I will put on the parts I want first and then go for a custom remap.
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After this experience, I think next time I will put on the parts I want first and then go for a custom remap.
....That's what I did. I spent about 18 months doing 'hardware' mods before I remapped. I was also advised that it's an ideal course of action but not very commonly done! The thinking is that the remap can be fine tuned to suit the reality of the particular hardware mods and how the car actually is.
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Gaz did you ask Awesome about the glitch on the map?
My dad's wanting his car mapped at Awesome and once I told him about this, he seemed quite concerned!
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I'm goin in Friday so will have a chat then. The ED30 map Hurdy had was a hand me down from oettinger, and what was strange was my car made good power and torque on the same map.
The maps they have now are APR's own, done on Awesomes rollers a few weeks back, but I'll let you know what Jim says
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Ah I see!
Ok fair enough, that'd be grand cheers :smiley:
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I'm goin in Friday so will have a chat then. The ED30 map Hurdy had was a hand me down from oettinger, and what was strange was my car made good power and torque on the same map.
The maps they have now are APR's own, done on Awesomes rollers a few weeks back, but I'll let you know what Jim says
I agree with Gaz. If the map was from Oettinger (we still don't know for sure) then I'm even more disappointed as their products are supposed to be TUV approved as well.
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just caught up on this thread john and congrats!!!!!!!! :drool: :drool: :cool: im very jelouse as im sure many of us are :laugh: :laugh: i bet if you got in a std ed30 now it would feel like a corsa :grin: :grin:
i noticed you havnt told us what you are now getting mpg??? must be a rite thursty b!tch now :rolleyes:
also on the 7th do you think you can do another one of those sheets where we guess what bhp as i was slightly out last time :grin: :embarassed: (must have been at leat 60 bhp :grin: :grin: (split dv hoses)) and would be good to see what others predict as to what they actually get :smiley:
im sure all eyes will be on your graph as it goes up, bagsy front row seat :tongue:
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Day to day she doesn't drink much more than before. I don't usually look at mpg, but when I fill up the range used to show around 280 miles and now it is more like 250 - 260 miles. I'll have to do a proper brim to brim refill and reset thetrip on the sat nav to get an exact reading for ya.
I saved the blank sheet on the PC from the last time out so it'll be no problem to type in the runners and riders again for this time out. :cool:
I'm a bit nervous as I really don't have any idea about what she'll get on the RR, but if the power doesn't go up as much as I think it will, then I'm damn sure that the torque must now be a mountain :grin:
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I'm goin in Friday so will have a chat then. The ED30 map Hurdy had was a hand me down from oettinger, and what was strange was my car made good power and torque on the same map.
The maps they have now are APR's own, done on Awesomes rollers a few weeks back, but I'll let you know what Jim says
I agree with Gaz. If the map was from Oettinger (we still don't know for sure) then I'm even more disappointed as their products are supposed to be TUV approved as well.
Hurdy, it was Dean at awesome that told me it was from Oettinger when I asked him how APR had managed to do a map for the ED30 when they don't get them in the states, or the S3 for that matter, also the Pirelli hadn't been launched then. He explained how APR had bought out Oettinger and the rights to their products.
I will speak to Jim and see what his response is, how's the motor goin by the way :evil:
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She's running great Gaz :cool:
There are a couple of things I've noticed about the power/ torque:-
1. The mid range has a better "slam you back in your seat and keep you there" aspect to it.
2. The top end used to get a boost to it and then fade just before the redline, wheras now it just keeps pulling all the way to the redline. :evil:
The ARB's are a modification that I had done on a spur of the moment thing after seeing them on *whispers quietly* UKMKIV's. They have made a great difference to the aspect of the car when pressing on through corners and she just feels that little bit more sure footed if you know what I mean.
How's your car feeling now you've had the pump fitted and remap done. I bet she feels a bit more of a beast now right?
You'll probably beat me by 1 bhp again lol :grin:
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pah ! I go away on honeymoon for 2 weeks and its all happening :grin:
First off , nice work Hurdy, chosen your own path and it will be fascinating to see how the RR day goes, not just ultimate power but the delivery. Great to have choice in the modding world.
For me the biggest takeaway from the writeup was the APR DSG map , I was pretty :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
You have been very diplomatic on here , and I'm not sure exactly the circumstances the DSG map was put on your car.
APR are a brand who play on the fact they retain the protocols and safety limits as a major selling point!
(notably EGT is the big one)
But ultimately for APR to allow you to run a potentially damaging map (whether created by them OR even worse taken uncertified from another manufacturer) is just not on. You could argue it maybe wasnt/ was running lean, or there was a pre-existing fault, the important differentiation is the removal of the safety limit.
I would never take someone elses software and certify it for another customer to use UNLESS I had certified it was fully tested myself, or maybe even just not supply it until I have had time to test it.
All it takes is one high profile engine failure and your brand confidence is toast!
Maybe this was defined as a test map, but as a minimum you would still do a full throttle run to check the AFR for this 'inherited' map before letting a customer test it. Or if you knew other tuners removed the safety levels then you simply dont use those products (but use them as a template for future work)
For now I'm willing to suspend judgement , as I was until this point really pro APR ,and when the time was right planned to get their remap. Gaz's car runs strong. My confidence is however dented by the information I currently have , and I will certainly be looking to receive some re-assurance.
To say the new map is now APR only is fine , but thats done on a trust basis , which now has been dented.
Hurdy I'm sure 'trusted' that the safety limits would protect his engine, but they werent even there!
Not speaking for anyone , just putting my 2p down , and looking for some answers , as I had selected APR as my map of choice up to this point.
Unless you can read the code yourself , it really is down to 'trust' for remaps
JohnO
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....For whatever it's worth, I agree with you JohnO. Doing what Hurdy has done is taking high risks imo. But someone has to be the Guinea Pig or first to try it. I'm not saying that Hurdy or Gaz etc shouldn't have done it but only that it's very high risk and I must say I'm not impressed by Awesome or APR in this matter. I thought that Awesome and APR were better than that.
I'm sure that Revo, for example, wouldn't have brought their remap product to market without more extensive pre-release testing.
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I agree with you John-O and I'm waiting for feedback from Gaz to see what Awesome/APR have to say.
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when i got my ed30 i took it to awesome for the trial map putting on as i had stage 2 apr on my Seat Leon Cupra R AND loved it, but when the trial map had gone my car would not start and put up 6 fault codes on vag-com :huh: with everything from abs to steering fault codes :angry:. i gave andy a call and let him know and he said thats never happened before and could i send him a copy of the codes that had come up so i did and he said he would let the guys at APR see them. I think i will be going revo on mine this time as it was a bit fooked up as they said it could not be the map and it must be the car lol its brand new so it cant be that :rolleyes: strange thing is i had a trial map put on my audi a3 2.0t and that did the same thing :huh: but again they said thats never happened before :rolleyes:
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Sounds to me like someone is telling porkeis :rolleyes:
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Never really been a fan of APR to be honest..
Firstly them never seem to make the figures that Revo etc do. But hearing these other issues just makes me even better I didn't choose them as a map..
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he said thats never happened before and could i send him a copy of the codes that had come up so i did.......they said it could not be the map and it must be the car lol its brand new so it cant be that :rolleyes: strange thing is i had a trial map put on my audi a3 2.0t and that did the same thing :huh: but again they said thats never happened before :rolleyes:
....QST (MTM remap) said exactly the same some time ago about a friend's GTI after their remap - Legal action had to be threatened! It seems to be a stock excuse from some tuners to blame the original state of the car. My Revo tuner JKM thoroughly checks the state of a car BEFORE any tuning.
Before Awesome took APR on board I hadn't heard good things about them but thought that if Awesome rated them, then they would be okay. I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to use them at the moment!
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I'm glad I opted for Revo again :grin:
From what I remember the reason this started was Hurdy's car was not making the same figures as a.n.other on APR and now runs better on another map - we have to remember though that the statement about the APR code is being made by another chip tuner ... :huh: ok so it looks like more have come out the woodwork since then which makes you wonder but there are cars that seem to be running fine - Gaz's for example so is it a DSG/Manaul issue maybe.
Getting a car remapped seems much easier today than it did just a few years ago when chips were soldered on, even though I would still strongly advise anyone to investigate each map and speak to owners about what they think and would they choose the same again, I almost changed to APR on the Golf but in the end spent the extra and stuck with what I knew and had experienced personally - which was Revo, not looked back since.
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If you were a newb you would be scared shytless what with bent engine mounts and safety param's seemingly removed from maps.God knows what might have happened to Hurdy's car if he hadn't went in for other work?
Did JKM show you the settings Hurdy for your APR map or was it their word, the proof might have been in running on the r/r day but would Vag com not show these lean runnings? In the past my tuner has always read my ecu/oem map and then looked for a map to suit, hence they found VW had started to use an updated code for the 08 ed30.rather than just download an off the shelve map straight to the car.poor blighter in the states had to get up early and read my file then make a map to suit.
It would be good if someone on here knew what setting you could check on Vagcom to check your car.I have v/com and would be glad to check mine even for my own peice of mind as i suspect would a few others out there.
As someone touched on here earlier reputations and livelyhoods are sometimes lost on these forums by what people say either truthfully or not.Not for one min am i saying anyone on here does but if you read VW Vortex you will see my point.
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this is what vag com said when the map had gone kept it short
00-Steering Angle Sensor -- Status: OK
0000 01-Engine -- Status: OK
0000 03-ABS Brakes -- Status: Malfunction
0010 08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction
0010 09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction
0010 15-Airbags -- Status: OK
0000 16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK
0000 17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK
0000 25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK
0000 42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK
0000 44-Steering Assist -- Status: Malfunction 0010
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK
0000 52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK
0000 56-Radio -- Status: OK
0000 62-Door,Rear Left -- Status: OK
0000 72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK
0000 76-Park Assist -- Status: OK 0000
and this happened once the trial software had gone and the car had 2300 miles on the clock
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Thats a lot of fault codes :sad:
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Thats a lot of fault codes :sad:
the car has been fine ever since and has never ever missed a beat and its had a good thrashing at the ring :evil:
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Lets give Jim at Awesome and APR a chance to respond before we all decide that APR is no good. Like neg said you have to remember it was a rival tuner that has made these statements and its no secret there is no love lost between Awesome and JBS. Did Hurdy actually see any proof of the safety parameter removal or was it just a verbal statement.
I've had my last 4 cars APR'd and had no problems what so ever, also like I stated earlier my car was running the same map as Hurdy's and making about 25bhp more and about 35lbs/ft more torque. In fact on the last RR day it made more power(only 1bhp) and much more torque than Hurdy's even though Hurdy was running a full Milltek TBE, while I had standard exhaust.
I know I sound biased and I do use Awesome regularly, but I think its only fair to get both sides of the story before you hang anybody.
O yes, do you realise that Revo was set up by a bloke who left APR and took their maps with him :smiley:
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Like i said i had APR stage 2 on my leon cupra r and would defo have it again on a 1.8t but i have no idea what was going on with both my cars 2.0t. i am sure APR and Awesome will get it sorted out and it will be spot on
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Hi Gaz, I agree (again!) and I salute your support for Awesome.
JBS told me verbally, and did go into some detail about it, but like you say it is not definitive proof and there is no love loss between them (as I said waaaay back in this thread)
With the map being overwritten, Awesome cannot really take a look at the map to defend it and if I had known beforehand I would have stopped the JBS remap and gone back to Awesome to confirm it and ask for the reason behind it if proven.
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Cheers pal :tongue:
I didn't want it to look like I was supporting Awesome and APR because its what I've got and where I go, but I just think we should get both sides of the story.
Should be Milltek friday 2 morra, lookin fwd to that, also me and neg have been weighing up the S3 intercooler swap, (well neg has done the phoning round) 275 quid including delivery for the bits, and I'm gonna look into doin it myself, bit of a bargain don't you think.
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Lets face it these maps are all going to be very similar, afterall there is only so much you can alter.
As for the question about checking the car is running correct - funny you should ask as I have just been out for half an hour with a friend, vagcom and my laptop to check my settings - as I can alter them with the select switch having Revo depending on the temp/fuel etc.
There are a couple of things to do ..
Boost, MAF reading, Intake Temps and quite important Cylinder CF's - best way to do these is a 4th gear run from say 2.5k rpm to redline and then review the readings and if your lucky enough to have Revo use the switch to alter settings accordinly.
The latest select plus user guide is here (http://www.revotechnik.com/products/pdf/SelectPlus_AdvancedUserGuide_V0707.pdf), its worth a read no matter what code you have as the logging is the same.
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Cheers pal :tongue:
I didn't want it to look like I was supporting Awesome and APR because its what I've got and where I go, but I just think we should get both sides of the story.
Should be Milltek friday 2 morra, lookin fwd to that, also me and neg have been weighing up the S3 intercooler swap, (well neg has done the phoning round) 275 quid including delivery for the bits, and I'm gonna look into doin it myself, bit of a bargain don't you think.
That is a brilliant price. If I knew for sure that one would fit my car I would have the S3 intercooler plus the Twintercooler as well. It may sound like overkill, but hey it may help the cooling a little more :wink:
You'll not be disappointed with the Milltek either, the sound really does get better and better. :smiley:
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Just to be clear I'm also with Gaz on allowing some clarity before forming an opinion about APR.
All too often forums get these things out of context but we all seem to be adults on here :grin:
Im still pro APR for now but need to 'know' that the appropriate reasons I would chose there products (safety levels enabled etc) are still in place.
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HURDY... have / are you posting pictures of your car with your new bits.
Martininwillerby
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HURDY... have / are you posting pictures of your car with your new bits.
Martininwillerby
I wondered when someone would mention that.
There isn't that much to see, but I guess I'll have to crawl under there for some pics sooner rather than later :smiley:
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Spoke to Jim at Awesome today and brought up this issue with original APR map Hurdy had.
He confirmed it was an Oettinger map originally and there is absolutely no way any of the safety parameters for fuelling or otherwise had been removed. He pointed out that as Hurdy has already mentioned the Oettinger map was TUV approved so would have to be spot-on in all counts.
The same goes for all APR's maps, all of the safety parameters are intact which is why their quoted figures are always on the conservative side compared with other companies.
From what I can gather there is a bit of history between James at JBS and Jim at Awesome and I sensed a bit of bad blood so it could be down to that, and a bit of back-handed marketing, and it has happened before apparantly, some APR customers being offered free re-maps if they slag of APR on the forums and stuff allegedly, but then coming back to APR when they were not happy with what they got, again allegedly.
Read into this what you like and make your own mind up :smiley:
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I have heard similar things in the past with regard to other tuners - thats why I wanted to point out you have to take some of these comments with a pinch of salt. Make your own minds up at the end of the day and choose what you feel is right.
I would though be interested to see what results Hurdy's car would make in its current form running APR and CC - to much trouble I know.
Hurdy I take it the only did the map after all the bits were installed?
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I thought this would probably end up like this. Before anyone even dares mention it...NO..I didn't get a free remap. I didn't even get a courtesy car.
It would really p1ss me off either way:-
1. If the APR/Oettinger remap did have safety parameters removed..or
2. If JBS had led me down the wrong path and I'd unknowingly sullied Awesome's good name.
It is very much so a "make your own mind up" decision.
neg, yes all the parts were on before starting the custom mapping.
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It really is a make your own mind up pal, and I don't want anyone to fall out over it. I'm sure its not the first time or the last time that one tuner has played another tuner and I'm pretty sure thats what it is. The problem is it only takes one bit of bad press from whatever source and evryone jumps on the band wagon
P.s. no one is suggesting you got owt for nowt pal
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Thanks Gaz for speaking to Jim.
Definitely dont think we will get any further as its now one word vs another.
Lets see how the RR day goes.
Maybe its a case of APR map is great and cost effective for 95% gain for a semi std car.
but a custom remap may get you that last 5% power but of course cost more
Out of interest Hurdy do JBS (or CCode) retain all the safety protocols too (esp EGT) ?
For me Id still get the APR at the mo esp once I see how Gaz's car runs
Variety is the spice of life :smiley:
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Hell it would be boring if we all had the same map and results - would make the RR pretty pointless :grin:
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Thanks Gaz for speaking to Jim.
Definitely dont think we will get any further as its now one word vs another.
Lets see how the RR day goes.
Maybe its a case of APR map is great and cost effective for 95% gain for a semi std car.
but a custom remap may get you that last 5% power but of course cost more
Out of interest Hurdy do JBS (or CCode) retain all the safety protocols too (esp EGT) ?
For me Id still get the APR at the mo esp once I see how Gaz's car runs
Variety is the spice of life :smiley:
JBS told me that they would never mess with any safety parameters as they all tend to work in conjunction to protect the engine. :smiley:
I only chose JBS as I thought that they may provide better results on my car than I was getting with APR from Awesome. The bonus was that they had some other kit that I couldn't get easily elsewhere.
Another bonus is that few people have gone the route that I have and so it gives a wider experience to myself and, through my experiences, others on the forum can benefit too. :cool:
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Thanks Gaz for speaking to Jim.
Definitely dont think we will get any further as its now one word vs another.
Lets see how the RR day goes.
Maybe its a case of APR map is great and cost effective for 95% gain for a semi std car.
but a custom remap may get you that last 5% power but of course cost more
Out of interest Hurdy do JBS (or CCode) retain all the safety protocols too (esp EGT) ?
For me Id still get the APR at the mo esp once I see how Gaz's car runs
Variety is the spice of life :smiley:
JBS told me that they would never mess with any safety parameters as they all tend to work in conjunction to protect the engine. :smiley:
I only chose JBS as I thought that they may provide better results on my car than I was getting with APR from Awesome. The bonus was that they had some other kit that I couldn't get easily elsewhere.
Another bonus is that few people have gone the route that I have and so it gives a wider experience to myself and, through my experiences, others on the forum can benefit too. :cool:
Indeed they can Hurdy :wink: