GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: valleyboy on 02 October 2007, 17:51
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I havent posted much, i've been a lurker sorry.....
As you can guess from the title were still in the 'looking/test driving' stage :wink:
I thought I had the wife sussed and the plan was to get a GTI.... I made the big mistake of getting a test drive in a Leon FR just for a laugh.... mistake!! she reckons she prefers the FR!!! :laugh:
I need you lot to give me some more ammo to fire at her...
the only pros i can see the Leon has is more BHP buts its heavier and it has slightly more kit as standard! oh and its cheaper....
i don't like it as when your inside it's like driving an armoured personnel carrier, you can't see anything!! the Pillars are 50 foot wide!! it just feels bigger and more sluggish!
I'm not being a badge snob, well i guess i am but i just prefer the golf. only problem is the wife will be paying the bigger chunk of the cash as a deposit, then the rest will be on finance but i'll be making a contribution... i have to tread with care :wink:
I need your help!!!
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If it has more BHP (than the GTI - 200BHP) are you not talking about the Leon Cupra?
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If you are talking about the 2.0t fsi fr then it is 200bhp! the diesel is different - unsure but believe it is 170. Soo not dif from golf really.
Are they releasing a new shape cupra? thought it was just fr series....?
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I like the look of the Cupra with a big chunky front end. I've been in one of the standard leons and I know what you mean about the huge "A" pillars. It feels like an MPV inside. One thing I didn't like was the spray painted plastic on the central console. Nice exterior styling though and better value than Golf.
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ok some amunition for you,
i was also looking ages ago to size up my GTi to a Seat Altea FR,
The boot in the FR (leon) is tiny in comparrison, so if you have a small family or have plans for kids, the boot in the Leon is pathetic!! WILL NOT FIT A PUSHCHAIR!!,The ride is harder then the golf, the interia is so plain and smooth looking, (ie no definition) if would make ann robinson's face look wrinkly!.
Its performance isnt as good as the golf, it does have 170bhp but runs outa puff at 4000 rpm.its also quite noisey, and is quite thirsty on diesel .If your buying on part finance, remind her that the seat will loose a large percentage of value, so you will always be in negative equity come part ex.If you do have a small family ,the altea is really only slightly bigger then the golf and is more appealing for the family man, given performance is similar between models,the leon, is claustrophobic and way smaller inside, but that idea of buying a Seat was dumped after driving off the forecourt on our booked testdrive,we were aloud it for 2 hrs and i was back to the dealer in 6 minutes!!! (only that long because i couldnt turn around any sooner).
Honestly stick to your guns, ok the golf costs more, but please do not make a big mistake i nearly did. YOU WILL NOT REGRET IT.
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thanks all.....
sorry i got confused its the FR and it does have the same BHP 200, i got consfused with the cupra.
we havent got kids yet, another year i guess. neither of us have had a decent 'sporty' car, the wife has started a new job and she gets good bonus each month and i'm doing ok so it's time to have a laugh.
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ok some amunition for you,
i was also looking ages ago to size up my GTi to a Seat Altea FR,
The boot in the FR (leon) is tiny in comparrison, so if you have a small family or have plans for kids, the boot in the Leon is pathetic!! WILL NOT FIT A PUSHCHAIR!!,The ride is harder then the golf, the interia is so plain and smooth looking, (ie no definition) if would make ann robinson's face look wrinkly!.
Its performance isnt as good as the golf, it does have 170bhp but runs outa puff at 4000 rpm.its also quite noisey, and is quite thirsty on diesel .If your buying on part finance, remind her that the seat will loose a large percentage of value, so you will always be in negative equity come part ex.If you do have a small family ,the altea is really only slightly bigger then the golf and is more appealing for the family man, given performance is similar between models,the leon, is claustrophobic and way smaller inside, but that idea of buying a Seat was dumped after driving off the forecourt on our booked testdrive,we were aloud it for 2 hrs and i was back to the dealer in 6 minutes!!! (only that long because i couldnt turn around any sooner).
Honestly stick to your guns, ok the golf costs more, but please do not make a big mistake i nearly did. YOU WILL NOT REGRET IT.
Phil, no offense where did you get this from??
are you comparing the golf to the Altea or the Leon? I currently own a Leon FR TDi and i can fit a pushchair, booster seat, full weeks shopping plus more in the boot of my car.its doesnt run out of grunt @ 4000rpm either 3-4.5k is its best get up and go, for a performance diesel it gets 450miles out of a tank sometimes more, the suspension on the gti & the leons are the same, the new leon doesn't look to be dep that bad espec the diesels, look at the mk1 leon cupra's petrol and diesel still above the 10k mark no worse than a golf, after a year of ownership of mine i could still sell for just under 15k.the car looks bloody good too.
the one thing i will agree on is the pillars, they do hamper your field of vision sometimes.
but you cant compare buying a diesel to a gti no way, the gti to a tfsi ok they are practicaly the same car except the badge.
If your a badge snob then buy a Audi.
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Have a test drive in the GTI and I guarantee you will choose it ove the Leon. The Interior of the FR is awful compared to the GTI, it has a real cheap and low market look and feel about it. The GTI looks far better than the mini MPV Leon look and in my book is by far the classiest hot hatch around ( Audi S3 aside that is ) .
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Better built, better looking, better badge, better feel-good factor, better residuals.
Better car all round really :rolleyes:
Cass
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Keith, im sorry you dont agree, the altea was the one i tested, the cupra is the same class (size) as the golf but is nowhere near as big as the golf.the Altea i drove had 5000miles on the clock was the 170 td, rattled like a pig, stereo wouldnt work on the motorway picking up interference from the engine. i tried a cd, and that wouldnt play very well, cd kept jumping badly over bumpy lane leaving dealership. Interia is shocking but you get what you pay for, cheap spanish plastic's. its a petty cus i agree the leon especially looks the bizz from the outside but should have done as good a job on the inside to then be able to say "yes its the same as the golf in terms of build". average mpg in the altea was logged in the trip computer at 36.7mpg, which is slightly better but it was a diesel and not the petrol version.
The cupra i never had drove, sat in it in the showroom, felt claustrophobic inside, headroom in the rear wasnt great,especially for me cus im a 6ft+and dont have no such bother in the golf,visability was very poor around the windscreen pillar's .Boot is not as deep in cubic capicity.ok you have got a pram then yes it will carry the weekly shop no worries.
what you must remember is Seat is way cheaper then the golf, but begs the question why is it so much cheaper???, . The dont get something for nothing these days. i would look at the octavia vrs for simularity to the golf, and thats priced closer to the golf then the Seat.
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Better built, better looking, better badge, better feel-good factor, better residuals.
Better car all round really :rolleyes:
Cass
What he said .
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Got to add my two pennies worth...
I had a good few Golf GTIs over the years and was almost definitely going to get a 3 door Mk 5 in either white or red, anyway my situation changed and I needed a 5 door (the wife was pregnant :smiley:).
So I test drove the Leon FR and Golf GTI back to back for at least an hour in each over varied surfaces here are my thoughts:
To drive they both drove exactly the same, I know the reviews reckon there are subtle differences but not so much that I could tell.
The interior of the golf as everyone's said is far better than the Leon.
The boot in the Golf is bigger but I can get the pram shopping etc so no problems (I was coming from a Mini so every other cars boot looks massive).
The Leon I think looks great with the optional 18s and in a light colour and get quite a lot of +ve comments about the looks (as many as with my fully loaded, kitted Mini).
In the end I went for the Leon because it was a change from VW, its rareness factor, good looks and I got it fully loaded with everything (18s, bluetooth, bi-xenons, sunroof, armrest, rear airbags, winter pack, convenience pack) for less than the price of a standard GTI.
Yes it has compromises with the interior and its not got the cache of the "Golf GTI" but thats about it as far as I can see. I went for it knowing this and don't regret it.
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In the end I went for the Leon because it was a change from VW, its rareness factor, good looks and I got it fully loaded with everything (18s, bluetooth, bi-xenons, sunroof, armrest, rear airbags, winter pack, convenience pack) for less than the price of a standard GTI.
This is a very valid point when you are paying with your own hard earned cash :undecided:
List for my MY2007 3 door with lots of extras was almost 25k :shocked:
Cass
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Got to add my two pennies worth...
I had a good few Golf GTIs over the years and was almost definitely going to get a 3 door Mk 5 in either white or red, anyway my situation changed and I needed a 5 door (the wife was pregnant :smiley:).
So I test drove the Leon FR and Golf GTI back to back for at least an hour in each over varied surfaces here are my thoughts:
To drive they both drove exactly the same, I know the reviews reckon there are subtle differences but not so much that I could tell.
The interior of the golf as everyone's said is far better than the Leon.
The boot in the Golf is bigger but I can get the pram shopping etc so no problems (I was coming from a Mini so every other cars boot looks massive).
The Leon I think looks great with the optional 18s and in a light colour and get quite a lot of +ve comments about the looks (as many as with my fully loaded, kitted Mini).
In the end I went for the Leon because it was a change from VW, its rareness factor, good looks and I got it fully loaded with everything (18s, bluetooth, bi-xenons, sunroof, armrest, rear airbags, winter pack, convenience pack) for less than the price of a standard GTI.
Yes it has compromises with the interior and its not got the cache of the "Golf GTI" but thats about it as far as I can see. I went for it knowing this and don't regret it.
Fair enough, but if you can afford it, I'd go for the genuine article... the Golf GTI. Other cars just don't come close and if the Leon was that good why wasn't it feted in the motoring press in the same way? I don;t remember Jeremy Clarkson nominating the Seat as car of the year any year.
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I havent posted much, i've been a lurker sorry.....
As you can guess from the title were still in the 'looking/test driving' stage :wink:
I thought I had the wife sussed and the plan was to get a GTI.... I made the big mistake of getting a test drive in a Leon FR just for a laugh.... mistake!! she reckons she prefers the FR!!! :laugh:
I need you lot to give me some more ammo to fire at her...
the only pros i can see the Leon has is more BHP buts its heavier and it has slightly more kit as standard! oh and its cheaper....
i don't like it as when your inside it's like driving an armoured personnel carrier, you can't see anything!! the Pillars are 50 foot wide!! it just feels bigger and more sluggish!
I'm not being a badge snob, well i guess i am but i just prefer the golf. only problem is the wife will be paying the bigger chunk of the cash as a deposit, then the rest will be on finance but i'll be making a contribution... i have to tread with care :wink:
I need your help!!!
I think one main plank of your strategy needs to be ensuring that your wife doesn't read your posts here :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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At the end of the day the choice boils down to whether you want this... which comes with compulsory slippers and pipes :rolleyes:
(http://www.automotoportal.com/media/images/vijesti/061028005.jpg)
Or this.... :evil:
(http://vne-resource.iol.co.za/30/picdb/article1/e/1/34926)
Note the subtle addition of the Mk1 Golf GTI in the background, thereby associating the Mk5 with its heritage, history and class. Not that I am bias or anything :grin:
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Have a look at those pictures.
Isn't the Seat a bit of a dud, imagine a friend pulling up in it, what does it say about them?
Now imagine the same friend pulling up in the Golf GTI.
See my point?
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Have a look at those pictures.
Isn't the Seat a bit of a dud, imagine a friend pulling up in it, what does it say about them?
Now imagine the same friend pulling up in the Golf GTI.
See my point?
Exactly. As the Chinese say - in Mandarin or Cantonese of course - 'A picture is worth a thousand words' :smiley:
Or as Confucious might have said 'One who chooses Seat Leon over VW Golf GTI will cry many tears afterwards as he is like one who chooses Coca Cola over Tescos No Frills Cola' :evil:
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What happens if so called friend pulls up in an Audi S3 instead of GTI, what does that say?
As much as i like the GTI, i know i'd have the S3 over it if i could swallow the 4-5k difference
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What happens if so called friend pulls up in an Audi S3 instead of GTI, what does that say?
As much as i like the GTI, i know i'd have the S3 over it if i could swallow the 4-5k difference
But what happens if your best friends sisters nephew in law pulls up in a Yugo Zastava and say's "It's better than the Golf GTI 'cos it just is"
"Nah, it is, innit"
Then what? :huh:
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I was thinking about a Cupra when they first came out - but reading on Cupra Owners Club site - even the enthusiasts identified too many problems with both FR & Cupra. One of the biggest seems to be tyre wear / tracking - both seem preety good at shreading tyres at pretty low mileage. Plus plenty more FR negatives, have a read then you should soon get your way!
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What happens if so called friend pulls up in an Audi S3 instead of GTI, what does that say?
As much as i like the GTI, i know i'd have the S3 over it if i could swallow the 4-5k difference
But what happens if your best friends sisters nephew in law pulls up in a Yugo Zastava and say's "It's better than the Golf GTI 'cos it just is"
"Nah, it is, innit"
Then what? :huh:
Haha indeed!
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aha, Seat is cheaper, but remember, free cheese is only in the mouse-trap
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Is it just me or does the majority of people here not realise that there are cars better than the GTI?
I know its a GTI forum so there are bound to be biased opinions. But for some people its not what you want, but relistically what you can afford, ie value for money. In this case the FR which is mechanically 95% identical to the GTI yet shaving 4k of its list price is strong enough to persuade some people. So why i ask must we b!tch about other cars which share similar components just because one has a VW badge the other a Seat?
What happens when we move up to an S3 or S4 or maybe RS4, do we then slag of the greatness of the GTI then?
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But the s3 is plain!!!, isnt there someone on here thought a Black S3 was the way to go, purchased it and is now ordered another GTi only a few months of having it! :lipsrsealed:
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The seat leon fr and cupra and cupra r are amazing cars. I wanted a leon but you cant really find many tdi leon used.
I say go for the seat pretty much a golf but looks different. But build quality worse. My mates fr ibiza 05 plate has been back to the garage lots. Just a warning lol.
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Got to add my two pennies worth...
I had a good few Golf GTIs over the years and was almost definitely going to get a 3 door Mk 5 in either white or red, anyway my situation changed and I needed a 5 door (the wife was pregnant :smiley:).
So I test drove the Leon FR and Golf GTI back to back for at least an hour in each over varied surfaces here are my thoughts:
To drive they both drove exactly the same, I know the reviews reckon there are subtle differences but not so much that I could tell.
The interior of the golf as everyone's said is far better than the Leon.
The boot in the Golf is bigger but I can get the pram shopping etc so no problems (I was coming from a Mini so every other cars boot looks massive).
The Leon I think looks great with the optional 18s and in a light colour and get quite a lot of +ve comments about the looks (as many as with my fully loaded, kitted Mini).
In the end I went for the Leon because it was a change from VW, its rareness factor, good looks and I got it fully loaded with everything (18s, bluetooth, bi-xenons, sunroof, armrest, rear airbags, winter pack, convenience pack) for less than the price of a standard GTI.
Yes it has compromises with the interior and its not got the cache of the "Golf GTI" but thats about it as far as I can see. I went for it knowing this and don't regret it.
Fair enough, but if you can afford it, I'd go for the genuine article... the Golf GTI. Other cars just don't come close and if the Leon was that good why wasn't it feted in the motoring press in the same way? I don;t remember Jeremy Clarkson nominating the Seat as car of the year any year.
I did have the choice to go for the genuine article (in standard trim) but choose the Leon over it for the reasons I stated above, and I am a BIG VW fan.
The Leon doesn’t get as much plaudit as the Golf because it came out 2 and a half years later than it and you all know how much things move on in that space of time so it would need to be better than (rather than as good) as the Golf to get the rave reviews.
And if I remember the Leon FR did make Top Gears Wall of fame Cool cars section, not that this holds much value in my eyes.
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At the end of the day the choice boils down to whether you want this... which comes with compulsory slippers and pipes :rolleyes:
(http://www.automotoportal.com/media/images/vijesti/061028005.jpg)
Or this.... :evil:
(http://vne-resource.iol.co.za/30/picdb/article1/e/1/34926)
Note the subtle addition of the Mk1 Golf GTI in the background, thereby associating the Mk5 with its heritage, history and class. Not that I am bias or anything :grin:
And as the greeks said "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" so I'm not going to convince anyone here, :grin: but as someone who choose a Leon and loves VWs then I have probably got a fairer view. They are both nice looking cars but for me the Leon took it for the rarity factor.
Heritage, history and class, no arguement from here, but all I know is that it is problem free, looks good and goes well. :smug:
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did the GTi ever make the cool wall?????
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did the GTi ever make the cool wall?????
does it matter? :huh:
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well my life depends on it peskarik!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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well my life depends on it peskarik!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
think they only got the MKIV on it :undecided: can't remember them putting the MKV on there......
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So loved the look of the Cupra and so wanted one until i went and sat in one, did not even bother taking it on a test drive, its a big lump of plastic tack, my husband sat in it and his backside hung off the side of the seats, he looked wrong in it, bought the Golf and still loving it. :smiley:
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good choice, ur husband got a big bum :laugh:
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Is it just me or does the majority of people here not realise that there are cars better than the GTI?
I know its a GTI forum so there are bound to be biased opinions. But for some people its not what you want, but relistically what you can afford, ie value for money. In this case the FR which is mechanically 95% identical to the GTI yet shaving 4k of its list price is strong enough to persuade some people. So why i ask must we b!tch about other cars which share similar components just because one has a VW badge the other a Seat?
What happens when we move up to an S3 or S4 or maybe RS4, do we then slag of the greatness of the GTI then?
Humans are 98% the same DNA-wise as a chimpanzee.....I prefer being human :wink:
Seriously though, whether you choose a Leon FR, Skoda Octavia RS, VW GTI or an A3 2.0 TFSI then you are getting what you pay for. If it is the nuts and bolts you are bothered about then the Skoda suits. If it is the original GTI you are after then it has to be the Golf. If you are after a badge then subjectively you would choose the Audi.
The applications and target demographics overlap, but each one has its own refinements and for me the GTI is the one I would choose. Obviously I am biased, but if you drove all of them down the road then only the Golf would stand out of the crowd. The GTI is classless and an icon, but I doubt that your wife would subscibe to any of this. Residuals on any new car are poor in the short term, however over 3 years or more the GTI will hold on to 50% of it's original value and the Leon is projected 46-48% retained value. Although this seems in favour of the GTI, you have to remember that the GTI starts at over 20K and the Leon 16K which means you would lose around 10k in the GTI and 8.5K in the Leon. These figures too aren't the main thing to consider though, If you are speccing up any car, (and looking at the Leon you are) you must consider that trade in values generally will not take into consideration options on a car and therefore a highly specced car loses much more.
I can only recommend the GTI as it is the only one I have owned, but I can say that you wouldn't regret it from a make and model choice.
To summarise Skoda and Seat for those on a budget who don't care about the badge or levels of interior quality and the finer details
GTI is the one to go for if you believe what ALL the magazines say about it's handling and ownership costs.
Audi for those who consider themselves able to pay more for the top quality fit and finish regardless of the fact that Audi has spoilt the ride and handling of the A3 TFSI (not the S3!).
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....I can't believe that no-one (unless I missed it) has pointed out the biggest 'gun' of all in persuading her to go for a GTI over a Leon FR......DSG !!!!
Or is DSG a Leon option?
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....I can't believe that no-one (unless I missed it) has pointed out the biggest 'gun' of all in persuading her to go for a GTI over a Leon FR......DSG !!!!
Or is DSG a Leon option?
According to What car the auto is an option...don't know if it is the DSG though :undecided:
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Humans are 98% the same DNA-wise as a chimpanzee.....I prefer being human :wink:
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
Brilliant Hurdy... I couldn't have put it better myself.
So come on then Valleyboy. Do you want to be a Chimp or do you want to be a man? :rolleyes:
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i see the new EVO X is now coming with an SST gearbox with adjustable ferocity! :laugh:, which is yes youve guess'ed the DSG!!!, nice to see this is becoming more popular, and wave good bye to the old clutch! :smug:
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....I can't believe that no-one (unless I missed it) has pointed out the biggest 'gun' of all in persuading her to go for a GTI over a Leon FR......DSG !!!!
Or is DSG a Leon option?
According to What car the auto is an option...don't know if it is the DSG though :undecided:
Yes the Leon comes with DSG, the flappy paddles and all. I drove the Leon DSG and the A3 DSG when looking and it was the same twin clutch affair with lightening fast changes. The is also the launch control as well according to the boys and girls on the Seat forums.
Despite being quicker I still wanted the manual to feel more involved with the driving process.
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i see the new EVO X is now coming with an SST gearbox with adjustable ferocity! :laugh:, which is yes youve guess'ed the DSG!!!, nice to see this is becoming more popular, and wave good bye to the old clutch! :smug:
I read te review today... but only 280bhp in an Evo? :undecided: I thought it was going to be something like 340bhp? Still, torque is approx 420nm :tongue:
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....I can't believe that no-one (unless I missed it) has pointed out the biggest 'gun' of all in persuading her to go for a GTI over a Leon FR......DSG !!!!
Or is DSG a Leon option?
According to What car the auto is an option...don't know if it is the DSG though :undecided:
Yes the Leon comes with DSG, the flappy paddles and all. I drove the Leon DSG and the A3 DSG when looking and it was the same twin clutch affair with lightening fast changes. The is also the launch control as well according to the boys and girls on the Seat forums.
Despite being quicker I still wanted the manual to feel more involved with the driving process.
Good on ya Rob,
The DSG now appears to be the default choice and it's difficult to argue with the technology and execution but if it's real involvement you're after then manual changing beats DSG hands down.
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Is it just me or does the majority of people here not realise that there are cars better than the GTI?
I know its a GTI forum so there are bound to be biased opinions. But for some people its not what you want, but relistically what you can afford, ie value for money. In this case the FR which is mechanically 95% identical to the GTI yet shaving 4k of its list price is strong enough to persuade some people. So why i ask must we b!tch about other cars which share similar components just because one has a VW badge the other a Seat?
What happens when we move up to an S3 or S4 or maybe RS4, do we then slag of the greatness of the GTI then?
Humans are 98% the same DNA-wise as a chimpanzee.....I prefer being human :wink:
Seriously though, whether you choose a Leon FR, Skoda Octavia RS, VW GTI or an A3 2.0 TFSI then you are getting what you pay for. If it is the nuts and bolts you are bothered about then the Skoda suits. If it is the original GTI you are after then it has to be the Golf. If you are after a badge then subjectively you would choose the Audi.
The applications and target demographics overlap, but each one has its own refinements and for me the GTI is the one I would choose. Obviously I am biased, but if you drove all of them down the road then only the Golf would stand out of the crowd. The GTI is classless and an icon, but I doubt that your wife would subscibe to any of this. Residuals on any new car are poor in the short term, however over 3 years or more the GTI will hold on to 50% of it's original value and the Leon is projected 46-48% retained value. Although this seems in favour of the GTI, you have to remember that the GTI starts at over 20K and the Leon 16K which means you would lose around 10k in the GTI and 8.5K in the Leon. These figures too aren't the main thing to consider though, If you are speccing up any car, (and looking at the Leon you are) you must consider that trade in values generally will not take into consideration options on a car and therefore a highly specced car loses much more.
I can only recommend the GTI as it is the only one I have owned, but I can say that you wouldn't regret it from a make and model choice.
To summarise Skoda and Seat for those on a budget who don't care about the badge or levels of interior quality and the finer details
GTI is the one to go for if you believe what ALL the magazines say about it's handling and ownership costs.
Audi for those who consider themselves able to pay more for the top quality fit and finish regardless of the fact that Audi has spoilt the ride and handling of the A3 TFSI (not the S3!).
But who's the monkey paying £4k more :evil:
Seriously some good points though they are all good cars to drive (haven't driven the Skoda but have the other 3) and as said they overlap in who they appeal to. So bottom line is you can get a Golf with a nice badge and nicer interior trim or a Leon with more toys as standard, and spare cash in your back pocket. As others have eluded to in between the jokes it dosn't seem if there is a right or wrong answer to me.
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The DSG now appears to be the default choice and it's difficult to argue with the technology and execution but if it's real involvement you're after then manual changing beats DSG hands down.
....At the risk of taking this thread off topic - You may much prefer Manual over DSG but driving in M with paddles is equally involving. I say this after 40,000 miles of DSG. :smiley:
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Seat Leon FR = Golf Sport GT Tsi - I would have the Leon ............I think :laugh:
I looked at the FR and the GTI. The FR appealed new car V second hand. I like the looks of the FR on the outside and the dials are nice. It was just that big slab of plastic around the radio and some of the trim that put me off. (Also at the time they didn't do DSG). For the price I think its a good car. Oh and the gear knob on the manual what shape is that ????? similar to the Astra VXR. I dosen't fit in your hand.
One other thing the options are in general cheaper, DSG £1000 , bluetooth £250, you can get zenons with AFS (like you can on the Eos) and the IPod/MP3 connection is only £90 as well :undecided: :undecided:
And they call it Candy white as well........ :shocked:
However I decided to spend more and get a new ED30 :evil:
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Subjective stuff Robin.
Tapping that little tab just doesn't involve me in the same way as matching revs, blipping the throttle and slotting home gear after gear.
Efficient? NO!
Involving? OH YES!!
Luddite? Probably!
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Is it just me or does the majority of people here not realise that there are cars better than the GTI?
I know its a GTI forum so there are bound to be biased opinions. But for some people its not what you want, but relistically what you can afford, ie value for money. In this case the FR which is mechanically 95% identical to the GTI yet shaving 4k of its list price is strong enough to persuade some people. So why i ask must we b!tch about other cars which share similar components just because one has a VW badge the other a Seat?
What happens when we move up to an S3 or S4 or maybe RS4, do we then slag of the greatness of the GTI then?
Humans are 98% the same DNA-wise as a chimpanzee.....I prefer being human :wink:
Seriously though, whether you choose a Leon FR, Skoda Octavia RS, VW GTI or an A3 2.0 TFSI then you are getting what you pay for. If it is the nuts and bolts you are bothered about then the Skoda suits. If it is the original GTI you are after then it has to be the Golf. If you are after a badge then subjectively you would choose the Audi.
The applications and target demographics overlap, but each one has its own refinements and for me the GTI is the one I would choose. Obviously I am biased, but if you drove all of them down the road then only the Golf would stand out of the crowd. The GTI is classless and an icon, but I doubt that your wife would subscibe to any of this. Residuals on any new car are poor in the short term, however over 3 years or more the GTI will hold on to 50% of it's original value and the Leon is projected 46-48% retained value. Although this seems in favour of the GTI, you have to remember that the GTI starts at over 20K and the Leon 16K which means you would lose around 10k in the GTI and 8.5K in the Leon. These figures too aren't the main thing to consider though, If you are speccing up any car, (and looking at the Leon you are) you must consider that trade in values generally will not take into consideration options on a car and therefore a highly specced car loses much more.
I can only recommend the GTI as it is the only one I have owned, but I can say that you wouldn't regret it from a make and model choice.
To summarise Skoda and Seat for those on a budget who don't care about the badge or levels of interior quality and the finer details
GTI is the one to go for if you believe what ALL the magazines say about it's handling and ownership costs.
Audi for those who consider themselves able to pay more for the top quality fit and finish regardless of the fact that Audi has spoilt the ride and handling of the A3 TFSI (not the S3!).
But who's the monkey paying £4k more :evil:
Seriously some good points though they are all good cars to drive (haven't driven the Skoda but have the other 3) and as said they overlap in who they appeal to. So bottom line is you can get a Golf with a nice badge and nicer interior trim or a Leon with more toys as standard, and spare cash in your back pocket. As others have eluded to in between the jokes it dosn't seem if there is a right or wrong answer to me.
Spot on post there Rob. As an ex SEAT LCR driver I would definitley have another SEAT. For the money I paid for my Golf I could have had a Leon Cupra but I'm not a fan of the looks or interior. The new Leon Cupra and FR are still great cars . The Mk V Golf GTI really is a quality piece of kit though not just magazine hype, and in my opinion worth the premium over the Leon FR .
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i see the new EVO X is now coming with an SST gearbox with adjustable ferocity! :laugh:, which is yes youve guess'ed the DSG!!!, nice to see this is becoming more popular, and wave good bye to the old clutch! :smug:
60 percent of new Audi R8 are sold with manual gearbox. So it is not bye bye just yet. :rolleyes:
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....I can't believe that no-one (unless I missed it) has pointed out the biggest 'gun' of all in persuading her to go for a GTI over a Leon FR......DSG !!!!
Or is DSG a Leon option?
According to What car the auto is an option...don't know if it is the DSG though :undecided:
Yes the Leon comes with DSG, the flappy paddles and all. I drove the Leon DSG and the A3 DSG when looking and it was the same twin clutch affair with lightening fast changes. The is also the launch control as well according to the boys and girls on the Seat forums.
Despite being quicker I still wanted the manual to feel more involved with the driving process.
+1
also - extra exercise of the right arm and left leg
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Subjective stuff Robin.
Tapping that little tab just doesn't involve me in the same way as matching revs, blipping the throttle and slotting home gear after gear.
Efficient? NO!
Involving? OH YES!!
Luddite? Probably!
....Fair enough, mate. Each to their own and all that matters is that you enjoy driving whatever vehicle you have. :smiley:
Safe 'n Fun Journeys :cool:
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Subjective stuff Robin.
Tapping that little tab just doesn't involve me in the same way as matching revs, blipping the throttle and slotting home gear after gear.
Efficient? NO!
Involving? OH YES!!
Luddite? Probably!
+ 1e10 :cool:
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However I decided to spend more and get a new ED30 :evil:
Damn well right you did Tagnu :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
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i see the new EVO X is now coming with an SST gearbox with adjustable ferocity! :laugh:, which is yes youve guess'ed the DSG!!!, nice to see this is becoming more popular, and wave good bye to the old clutch! :smug:
60 percent of new Audi R8 are sold with manual gearbox. So it is not bye bye just yet. :rolleyes:
Thats because the buyers probably have a fleet of cars - some with DSG... :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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i see the new EVO X is now coming with an SST gearbox with adjustable ferocity! :laugh:, which is yes youve guess'ed the DSG!!!, nice to see this is becoming more popular, and wave good bye to the old clutch! :smug:
60 percent of new Audi R8 are sold with manual gearbox. So it is not bye bye just yet. :rolleyes:
Thats because the buyers probably have a fleet of cars - some with DSG... :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
but they probably drive R8 most of the time, except for shopping trips on Saturday, when they drive their manual M5 stationwagonz