GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: Lagerlout on 14 September 2007, 14:39
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http://www.tuningnews.net/article.php?date=070511a
Couple of questions, anyone here done any of the stages? What's it like??
Are the prices correct?
Does this apply to DSG or should we be talking manual here?
I fancy a Stage 2 if I order this new Ed30.. might just eat my 996.. :grin:
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There is a guy on a German GTI forum who has Stage 2.
He is let's say very happy with it. It goes very fast indeed, he has manual. He had M3 for lunch in his Ottinger GTI.
Hallo Zusammen!
Ich habe heute die interessanten Einträge zum Thema GTi Edition 30 mit Oettinger Tuning gesehen. Um es kurz zu machen, der Golf in der "Guten Fahrt" ( EN-AI 47) ist mein Auto.
Um hier mal ein paar Fakten zu schaffen:
1. Der Motor ist vom Audi S3, wurde aber werksseitig mit einem kleineren LLK versehen.
2. Der Motor hat kaum Gemeinsamkeiten mit dem Serien TFSi, da er komplett verstärkt ist, über Schmiedekolben verfügt und die Verdichtung anders ist.
3. Serienmässig hatte mein GTI bereits 250 PS auf dem Rollenprüfstand.
4. Nach der Umrüstung von Oettinger wurden 340 PS gemessen. Mit dieser Leistung läuft der Wagen allerdings gnadenlos in den Drehzahlbegrenzer. Die Leistung wurde zugunsten des Drehmoments ( 478NM!) etwas zurückgenommen. Mit lang übersetztem 6. Gang sind rechnerisch 300 Km/h machbar. Der Kostenaufwand steht aber in keinem Verhältnis zum Ergebnis.
5. Das Auto ist wunderbar fahrbar. Entgegen der Aussage der "Guten Fahrt" ist das Fahrwerk erste Sahne. Die "Gute Fahrt" sollte besser bei den Tests eines Sharan Family bleiben. Hie haben die Herrschaften sicher mehr Erfahrung. Man kann nun mal 330 PS nicht mit nem Touareg Fahrwerk kombinieren.
6. Der R32 ist ein tolles Auto. Solltet Ihr mir auf der Autobahn begegnen, spart Euch den Sprit. Lohnt nicht!! Die Begegnung mit einem M3 (343 PS) hat schon in Tränen geendet.
7. Ein Wort noch zur Höchstgeschwindigkeit: Sie hat um ca. 15 km/h zugenommen. Dann ist das Auto drehzahlmässig im roten Bereich und das muss nicht sein. Es macht viel mehr Spass wenn man sich von einem Drängler einfach "wegzoomt"
8. Ich würde diese Massnahme immer wieder machen lassen, habe jedoch bei einigen Tunern erfahren müssen, dass Sie ein Chiptuning für dieses Auto für Ausreichen halten. Hier ist Vorsicht geboten!!!! Der serienmässige LLK ist an seiner Leistungsgrenze. Die Ladeluft wird zu warm und der Motor regelt runter. Auf jeden Fall den grossen LLk nehmen. Alles andere Finger weg!! Ihr ärgert Euch nur.
Gruss
Christian
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Anyone speak German?
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Google does - ish. Bit "bonnet de douche" "duck ala orange" but better than nothing.. . ;)
Hello together!
I saw today the interesting entries about GTi edition 30 with Oettinger Tuning. In order to make it short, the gulf in the “good travel†(EN-AI 47) is my car.
In order to create here times a few facts:
1. The engine is from the AUDI S3, however factory-installed with a smaller LLK was provided.
2. The engine has hardly thing in common with series the TFSi, since it is completely strengthened, is had forging pistons and the compression different.
3. In series my GTI had already 250 HP on the Rollenprüfstand.
4. After the re-equipment of Oettinger 340 HP were measured. With this achievement the car runs however merciless into the speed limiter. The achievement became in favor of the torque (478NM!) something taken back. With long translated 6. Course are feasible computationally 300 km/h. The cost stands however in no relation to the result.
5. The car is marvelously mobile. Against the statement of the “good travel†the chassis is first cream. For “the travel†of a Sharan Family should remain better property with the tests. Hie have the rule surely more experience. One cannot combine now times 330 HP with nem Touareg chassis.
6. The R32 is a mad car. Should meet their me on the motorway, saves the Sprit for you. Is not worth!! The meeting with a M3 (343 HP) already ended in tears.
7. A word still to the maximum speed: It increased by approx. 15 km/h. Then the car is number of revolutions moderate in the red range and that must be. Much more fun makes itself if one “wegzoomt†of a Drängler simply
8. I would again and again let this measure make, however with some Tunern to experience had that you hold a Chiptuning for this car for being sufficient. Here caution is required!!!! The standard LLK is at its power limit. Load air becomes too warm and the engine regulates down. In any case large LLk take. Everything else fingers away!! You annoy you only.
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By LLK must be talking about intercooler.
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lol its like reading something a 4 year old wrote :D
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It's basically saying, it will eat M3's for breakfast but watch how much you gun it because the intercooler isn't as good as the one on the S3.
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Think it is saying that this one is OK because it does come with an Intercooler, whereas if you choose other Chip tuning companies that don't offer the Intercooler you might be taking a risk.
Not sure about that one, Oettinger just offer a map that is 300+ bhp.. I guess 330 pushes it borderline and requires the intercooler.
Either way sounds pretty good to me, reliable 100hp for £2350 or thereabouts. Interesting about what he says about being a detuned S3 motor with same internals.. don't want to bring up that old debate but..
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fcuk, i thought mine was quick, :cry:
what power would you get from a Forge Mk5 Golf 2.0T TWINtercooler, seen it on awesome-gti.co.uk
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It says the stage 2 delivers 0-62 in 5.9 seconds :undecided:
Mine is standard and can get 0-60 in 5.66 seconds. Does that mean by tuning it, it will be SLOWER!! :laugh: :grin:
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By adding 30% more power should be down around the low 5's I'd think!
So what d'yall reckon? Manual or DSG for this?
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Manual.
If the mods are TUV approved then they will not let the torque limit go past the recommended maximum from the maker on a DSG. The max torque on the DSG set up in the ED30 is under 300lb/ft.
APR have been in the same boat with the DSG as have Superchips. All do a slightly less torquey remap for the DSG version.
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"The chassis is the first cream" :grin:
Yaaaa, I am thinking this is so!! :grin:
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Manual.
If the mods are TUV approved then they will not let the torque limit go past the recommended maximum from the maker on a DSG. The max torque on the DSG set up in the ED30 is under 300lb/ft.
APR have been in the same boat with the DSG as have Superchips. All do a slightly less torquey remap for the DSG version.
I don't think thats too bad as too much torque in fwd = lots of wheel spin.
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From a standing start maybe, but in gear times should be even better with a manual if it has more torque.
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Ve hav vayz of making you torque
:grin: :grin: :grin:
Manual is best :wink:
Cass
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From a standing start maybe, but in gear times should be even better with a manual if it has more torque.
Damn... is this limit insurmountable? Because I'm seriously thinking of forgetting revo and going to Oettinger to Stage 2...
330hp :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
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http://www.hgp-turbo.de/ - they do an upgrade for the dsg that raises the torque limit to 600nm :evil:
One for post warranty mods methinks :rolleyes:
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From a standing start maybe, but in gear times should be even better with a manual if it has more torque.
Damn... is this limit insurmountable? Because I'm seriously thinking of forgetting revo and going to Oettinger to Stage 2...
330hp :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
The limit isn't insurmountable, however what you have to do to the DSG is a bit more drastic. As per the engine ECU, you can "remap" the DSG to work the plates with a higher pressure. The DSG clutches are designed as standard to last the lifetime of the car, but increasing the pressure will directly affect the lifetime of the clutches. A higher pressure = a stronger, faster gearchange. I've heard that there are only one or two companies in Europe who even have the bottle to start messing with the DSG programming and so getting someone in the good old UK may be a lost cause :cry:
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Maybe I should stick with Revo for now...
I am right in thinking that if the torque is the same, the extra 30hp won't make that much difference as its not being translated to force at the wheel?
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Maybe I should stick with Revo for now...
I am right in thinking that if the torque is the same, the extra 30hp won't make that much difference as its not being translated to force at the wheel?
The extra bhp will translate more to top speed increase rather than in gear times if the torque doesn't increase much between the 300bhp and the 330bhp mods.
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Ve hav vayz of making you torque
:grin: :grin: :grin:
Manual is best :wink:
Cass
I've had 2 manual Mk5s - a GTI and an Edition 30 GTI and 2 DSGs - an R32 and an Edition 30. The DSG is far better for me than manual. I was a manual diehard until I tried DSG and was converted. There are some things a manual does better, but for sheer convienience and rapid progress away from the idiot who wants to race you, its priceless. I can't see how much 50nm extra torque will make in a fwd car as you would have to be careful with the peddle anyway to avoid a situation where you are wheel spinning in 3rd gear at 30mph - something I experienced many times in the M3 Golf VR6... and besides, I have a Mk2 Golf GTI 16v for manual fun :evil:
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Maybe I should stick with Revo for now...
I am right in thinking that if the torque is the same, the extra 30hp won't make that much difference as its not being translated to force at the wheel?
The extra bhp will translate more to top speed increase rather than in gear times if the torque doesn't increase much between the 300bhp and the 330bhp mods.
The torque remains the same at 350nm for the Oettinger upgrade - pointless then, unless you are in Germany on the Autobahn and want to drive faster than 150mph and even then I would want to be going 150mph+ in a Golf :shocked:
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http://www.hgp-turbo.de/ - they do an upgrade for the dsg that raises the torque limit to 600nm :evil:
One for post warranty mods methinks :rolleyes:
On the HGP front page :
Golf V R32 Bi-Turbo - Leistung: 600PS, 720Nm
Auto Bild Sport sportscars Highspeed-Test Nardo 2006
Vmax 323,1km/h, 0-100km/h 4,0s
What a beast :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: 200 mph??
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http://www.hgp-turbo.de/ - they do an upgrade for the dsg that raises the torque limit to 600nm :evil:
One for post warranty mods methinks :rolleyes:
On the HGP front page :
Golf V R32 Bi-Turbo - Leistung: 600PS, 720Nm
Auto Bild Sport sportscars Highspeed-Test Nardo 2006
Vmax 323,1km/h, 0-100km/h 4,0s
What a beast :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: 200 mph??
lol... I got really confused there... I saw your sig and thought 'why have you got Hurdy's sig and his car under your post'.... didn't realise you also have a stunning silver GTI :cool:
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Thanks illyun :cool:
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Yup, thanks Illyun :cool:
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Google does - ish. Bit "bonnet de douche" "duck ala orange" but better than nothing.. . ;)
Hello together!
I saw today the interesting entries about GTi edition 30 with Oettinger Tuning. In order to make it short, the gulf in the “good travel†(EN-AI 47) is my car.
In order to create here times a few facts:
1. The engine is from the AUDI S3, however factory-installed with a smaller LLK was provided.
2. The engine has hardly thing in common with series the TFSi, since it is completely strengthened, is had forging pistons and the compression different.
Hmm, I really don't know where this myth is coming from. The Ed30 does not have the S3 engine.
3. In series my GTI had already 250 HP on the Rollenprüfstand.
I doubt that - VERY MUCH. He is stating 250HP on a rolling road. As the Ed30 engine has a claimed 230PS (about 225bhp) at the flywheel, transmission losses would give a wheel horsepower (the HP figure he is claiming :nerd:) of around 180-190 HP - maximum. If he is claiming a "corrected" power output, then that figure should be quoted as "brake horsepower" or BHP. Even then, 250 BHP sounds a little "head in clouds" !!! :rolleyes:
4. After the re-equipment of Oettinger 340 HP were measured. With this achievement the car runs however merciless into the speed limiter.
Again, some incorrect figures. Furthermore, the Golf does not have a speed limiter. :nerd:
The standard LLK is at its power limit. Load air becomes too warm and the engine regulates down. In any case large LLk take.
A small intercooler does NOT limit power (unless it is internally restrictive and not free-flowing). A small intercooler will merely be more suseptable to "heat soak", and the power will drop off more noticeably than a correctly specified larger version.
By LLK must be talking about intercooler.
Yup
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It's basically saying, it will eat M3's for breakfast but watch how much you gun it because the intercooler isn't as good as the one on the S3.
Why do you need to be careful of giving it the beans? :huh:
An undersized intercooler won't cause any engine damage!
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fcuk, i thought mine was quick, :cry:
what power would you get from a Forge Mk5 Golf 2.0T TWINtercooler, seen it on awesome-gti.co.uk
You will get exactly ZERO increase in power.
What you will get though, is a considerable improvement in "drop off", caused by heat soak, when giving it the beans in low road speed and high engine speeds - such as a series of hairpin bends, and particularly in very hot weather.
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It's basically saying, it will eat M3's for breakfast but watch how much you gun it because the intercooler isn't as good as the one on the S3.
Why do you need to be careful of giving it the beans? :huh:
An undersized intercooler won't cause any engine damage!
b*ggered if i know i was just translating :grin: bloody germans.
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http://www.hgp-turbo.de/ - they do an upgrade for the dsg that raises the torque limit to 600nm :evil:
That is for the R32 only!
The R32 has a very slightly different DSG box to the GTI (4 wheel drive against 2 wheel drive) - although I have no idea if the 32 box has any uprated internals. I would imagine that all the 4motion DSG boxes have uprated clutch packs though, to cope with the increased torque, particularly from the TDI lump. Couple the issue of the increased torque, and then add the lack of torque slip (ie wheelspin, as found on front wheel drive), and I think there is a strong case for 4motions to have uprated boxes.
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From a standing start maybe, but in gear times should be even better with a manual if it has more torque.
Damn... is this limit insurmountable? Because I'm seriously thinking of forgetting revo and going to Oettinger to Stage 2...
330hp :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
The limit isn't insurmountable, however what you have to do to the DSG is a bit more drastic. As per the engine ECU, you can "remap" the DSG to work the plates with a higher pressure. The DSG clutches are designed as standard to last the lifetime of the car, but increasing the pressure will directly affect the lifetime of the clutches. A higher pressure = a stronger, faster gearchange. I've heard that there are only one or two companies in Europe who even have the bottle to start messing with the DSG programming and so getting someone in the good old UK may be a lost cause :cry:
Interesting . . . :smiley:
Do you have linkys to these Euro DSG gods . . . I mean DSG tuners?
I hear what you say regarding UK specialists. I know that the Multitronic CVT boxes fitted to certain Audis are a real nightmare, and that "conventional auto gearbox specialists" are completely out of their depths (as are Audi stealers, which is why they refuse to repair, and simply replace the complete box). I do know that a company called Inde-Tech are very highly regarded as Multitrionic "experts", and maybe if enough DSG owners badgerd them enough, they might start to work on them too.
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Ve hav vayz of making you torque
:grin: :grin: :grin:
Manual is best :wink:
Cass
I've had 2 manual Mk5s - a GTI and an Edition 30 GTI and 2 DSGs - an R32 and an Edition 30. The DSG is far better for me than manual. I was a manual diehard until I tried DSG and was converted. There are some things a manual does better, but for sheer convienience and rapid progress away from the idiot who wants to race you, its priceless. I can't see how much 50nm extra torque will make in a fwd car as you would have to be careful with the peddle anyway to avoid a situation where you are wheel spinning in 3rd gear at 30mph - something I experienced many times in the M3 Golf VR6... and besides, I have a Mk2 Golf GTI 16v for manual fun :evil:
But with really decent tyres, like PS2s, and not some "nippon-no-grips", you will still be able to get the increased power down.
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It's basically saying, it will eat M3's for breakfast but watch how much you gun it because the intercooler isn't as good as the one on the S3.
Why do you need to be careful of giving it the beans? :huh:
An undersized intercooler won't cause any engine damage!
b*ggered if i know i was just translating :grin: bloody germans.
OK, no worries.
Why can't everone speak in English anyway, afterall, wasn't it blighty that won the war? <dons coat!> :evil: :evil:
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It's basically saying, it will eat M3's for breakfast but watch how much you gun it because the intercooler isn't as good as the one on the S3.
Why do you need to be careful of giving it the beans? :huh:
An undersized intercooler won't cause any engine damage!
b*ggered if i know i was just translating :grin: bloody germans.
OK, no worries.
Why can't everone speak in English anyway, afterall, wasn't it blighty that won the war? <dons coat!> :evil: :evil:
sorry, to lazy to translate. I just copied in the stuff from another (very nice) german GTI forum :smiley:
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From a standing start maybe, but in gear times should be even better with a manual if it has more torque.
Damn... is this limit insurmountable? Because I'm seriously thinking of forgetting revo and going to Oettinger to Stage 2...
330hp :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
The limit isn't insurmountable, however what you have to do to the DSG is a bit more drastic. As per the engine ECU, you can "remap" the DSG to work the plates with a higher pressure. The DSG clutches are designed as standard to last the lifetime of the car, but increasing the pressure will directly affect the lifetime of the clutches. A higher pressure = a stronger, faster gearchange. I've heard that there are only one or two companies in Europe who even have the bottle to start messing with the DSG programming and so getting someone in the good old UK may be a lost cause :cry:
Interesting . . . :smiley:
Do you have linkys to these Euro DSG gods . . . I mean DSG tuners?
I hear what you say regarding UK specialists. I know that the Multitronic CVT boxes fitted to certain Audis are a real nightmare, and that "conventional auto gearbox specialists" are completely out of their depths (as are Audi stealers, which is why they refuse to repair, and simply replace the complete box). I do know that a company called Inde-Tech are very highly regarded as Multitrionic "experts", and maybe if enough DSG owners badgerd them enough, they might start to work on them too.
Hi Sean,
The original info is from a previous thread about DSG limitations and is buried somewhere in the past threads. Just had a quick look by searching and I'm bugg3red if I can find it. It was a post that was originally off another site by someone using the DSG in racing and development. He did mention two DSG tuners names too. :embarassed:
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The extra bhp will translate more to top speed increase rather than in gear times if the torque doesn't increase much between the 300bhp and the 330bhp mods.
....Am I right in thinking that an increase in bhp but keeping the torque limited, will translate to more 'pull' at the higher speeds rather than an increase in the maximum top mph ?
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Outside of that, fitting the zorst and the intake box should change the character of the engine a fair bit. Should be much sweeter, revvy than before compared to what I'd expect from just a straight remap. The intercooler as TT said, is just there to disippate heat, bigger the better if repeated abuse is the order of the day. ;)
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Outside of that, fitting the zorst and the intake box should change the character of the engine a fair bit. Should be much sweeter, revvy than before compared to what I'd expect from just a straight remap. The intercooler as TT said, is just there to disippate heat, bigger the better if repeated abuse is the order of the day. ;)
....More responsive, yes. But the revs didn't feel noticeably freer until I fitted the Neuspeed Discharge and Charge pipes and SAMCO turbo hoses.
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Hi Sean,
The original info is from a previous thread about DSG limitations and is buried somewhere in the past threads. Just had a quick look by searching and I'm bugg3red if I can find it. It was a post that was originally off another site by someone using the DSG in racing and development. He did mention two DSG tuners names too. :embarassed:
OK, I'm cr@p at searching too! :embarassed:
I do vaguely remember discussing it - maybe the link was on UKMIVs, but I fear it will be on that horrendous yankee golfmk5.com !!!
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Outside of that, fitting the zorst and the intake box should change the character of the engine a fair bit. Should be much sweeter, revvy than before compared to what I'd expect from just a straight remap. The intercooler as TT said, is just there to disippate heat, bigger the better if repeated abuse is the order of the day. ;)
....More responsive, yes. But the revs didn't feel noticeably freer until I fitted the Neuspeed Discharge and Charge pipes and SAMCO turbo hoses.
Link?
But your mods are they Oettinger?
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The extra bhp will translate more to top speed increase rather than in gear times if the torque doesn't increase much between the 300bhp and the 330bhp mods.
....Am I right in thinking that an increase in bhp but keeping the torque limited, will translate to more 'pull' at the higher speeds rather than an increase in the maximum top mph ?
No. Increasing BHP will increase v-max (top speed). Increasing torque (but keeping max bhp the same) will keep the same v-max, but allow you to reach v-max in a shorter period.
Torque is simply a turning "force", whereas bhp/hp/PS/kW are merely a measurement of power, or work. If you have a greater torque figure, then you are turning a shaft "harder", which means greater (better) acceleration. :nerd:
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Outside of that, fitting the zorst and the intake box should change the character of the engine a fair bit. Should be much sweeter, revvy than before compared to what I'd expect from just a straight remap. The intercooler as TT said, is just there to disippate heat, bigger the better if repeated abuse is the order of the day. ;)
....More responsive, yes. But the revs didn't feel noticeably freer until I fitted the Neuspeed Discharge and Charge pipes and SAMCO turbo hoses.
Link?
But your mods are they Oettinger?
....Link to what? [I'm confused]
No, my intake is Carbonio and each of my mods are independent. The whole car has not been modded by just one supplier such as Oettinger who do offer a variety of mods as one package.
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Oh I meant to the Neuspeed bits you were referring to..