GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: micalee on 23 January 2007, 07:46
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Does anybody with a DSG have this problem with their change down? Noticably more in manual setting, when the car changes down, you get that lovely throttle blip but the car also surges forward when it does this! Surely this needs to be automatically revved in a neutral state to prevent this as you would do when double de clutching?
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Dont know if I've mis-interpreted this, but that sounds dangerous to me :shocked:
I was beginning to think DSG would have been a good idea given how much everyone on here seems to rave about it but glad I went for the manual now!
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Does anybody with a DSG have this problem with their change down? Noticably more in manual setting, when the car changes down, you get that lovely throttle blip but the car also surges forward when it does this! Surely this needs to be automatically revved in a neutral state to prevent this as you would do when double de clutching?
No, nothing like that on the GTI.
Is your R32 standard or modified? Are you touching the throttle pedal? Try changing down at a constant speed with constant throttle opening, then try again whilst accelerating with more throttle (but not kickdown), then try a third time with feet off the throttle and brake.
You may need the dealer to re-flash the DSG ECU, or they may even be a new map.
I have been able to "confuse" :nerd: my DSG box, but that is to be expected and is not a defect or problem.
Rgds
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This happens whilst my foot is off the accelerator and also if i am braking and going down through the box. How do you mean you can confuse your DSG? The car is standard
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when he says confuse, I think he means confuse the electronics?
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Confuse DSG box:
I take it you know that the DSG box works on pre-select - ie, when you are in 1st gear, 2nd gear will be engaged on the shaft (preselected), and when the upchange is called for, either by manual control from the paddles or shift lever, or by full automatic electronic control, the clutch for 1st gear is released and the clutch for the 2nd gear is engaged. Understood?? OK.
Right, the next thing to understand, is the box can only preselect ONE ratio - when you are in 1st, it can only preselect 2nd, and when you are in 6th, it can only preselect 5th. Still with me?
Now then, if the box is in either 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th - then the box can preselect either the next higher cog, or the next lower cog - keep up at the back - this is where you can confuse the box. If you are gently accelerating, at a linear rate, in "D" mode, and it has changed into say 4th gear, the box will have preselected 5th. If you then paddle shift DOWN, the box will get "confused" because IT thought it was going UP, but you just decided to go DOWN, and has to swap the preselected cog before the actual change will take place. You will notice quite a delay in the change, and it sometimes feels as though the car has become "bogged down" for a few moments, before picking up its' heels and rocketing off! :laugh:
I hope you havn't nodded off - I'll be testing you later :wink: :smiley:
Micalee - it does sound as though your box has a prob, as off-throttle downchanges, whilst they can be felt, are normally very smooth. What's it like downchanging in full auto "D" mode? How many miles has your R done, are you the orginal owner, has it done it from new? Any other nuggets of info would be useful.
Rgds
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BLIMEY CHARLIE!!! Thats a very detailed synopsis, thank you.
OK, my car was new from Sept 06, I am the only owner from new and it has done 3000miles approx. It did this from the start also. In Auto "D" mode, it still lurches forward as it drops down even with foot off the throttle. I have tried at all speeds, but seems noticably more when in manual, either in tiptronic or on the paddles.
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BLIMEY CHARLIE!!! Thats a very detailed synopsis, thank you.
Well there's no point pansying around with a de-caff cappuchino, when only a dark roast double espresso will do :wink: :smug: :laugh:
OK, my car was new from Sept 06, I am the only owner from new and it has done 3000miles approx. It did this from the start also. In Auto "D" mode, it still lurches forward as it drops down even with foot off the throttle. I have tried at all speeds, but seems noticably more when in manual, either in tiptronic or on the paddles.
What about revs - try changing down a quite low revs, and also quite high revs (aim to change down so that it nears the red-line [obviously when the motor is at the normal operating temperature] on the next cog lower - don't worry, you can't fec& it up, it has a fail safe override to prevent over-revving).
I'd still get it back to the dealer mind you . . . Rgds
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You make me laugh - Ill try the different change downs on the way home tonight. It is booked in with the dealer next tuesday. They will look at this issue plus the steering problem i have!
It must be me and steering, cos we just bought a new shape corsa and the steering on that is awful! Although it feels fine (sounds contradictory) when driving, when you turn a corner say and let the steering go light in your hands, the wheels should automatically straighten up! this doesnt! Its really hard to describe - it feels like whereever you place the wheel, it stays there as though something has been tightened up to much!
It is most perculiar so i am returning that also.
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You make me laugh
I'm an ex-crab :wink: , so we both probably share a warped sense of humour :laugh:
Ill try the different change downs on the way home tonight. It is booked in with the dealer next tuesday. They will look at this issue plus the steering problem i have!
The more info you can give the dealer, the more likely they are able to fix it first time, rather than fobbing you off time and again.
It must be me and steering, cos we just bought a new shape corsa and the steering on that is awful! Although it feels fine (sounds contradictory) when driving, when you turn a corner say and let the steering go light in your hands, the wheels should automatically straighten up! this doesnt! Its really hard to describe - it feels like whereever you place the wheel, it stays there as though something has been tightened up to much!
It is most perculiar so i am returning that also.
Ohh . . . that's not right, is it?
On the other hand, there seems to be a common prob to both your motors, and I think I may have the solution. . .
It might be a nut . . .
. . . you know , near the steering wheel . . .
. . . yesssss . . . the BIG NUT that is holding the steering wheel :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :evil: :evil: :laugh: :laugh:
Rgds
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Hey, how are you getting on with your "tests"? :wink:
I've been rooting through my bookmarks and found a VW Technical Service Bulletin for the DSG box - hope it's some more help and info for you:
http://www.alldata.com/tsb/Volkswagen/1142323200000_1143100800000_3506-01/index.html
Keep us all up to date :smiley:
Rgds
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Yeh been trying out in all situations and still pretty much all the same! It maybe that thats the way it is; I am getting the VW Stealer to look at it Tuesday, hopefully have more info then. Ill keep you updated and cheers for the link, will read now.
Lee
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Ok, had a quick read - On page 3 it says under the 'Cause' column, "that the reason for multiple declutching to reach the synchronization speed of the engine for the selected gear as quickly as possible. To achieve this multiple declutching is activated until the sychronization speed is reached. During this process the car does not accelerate."
I would therefore deduce that mine is working incorrectly?
I will print off this info and take it in with me tuesday. Many thanks for the help
Lee
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Ok, had a quick read - On page 3 it says under the 'Cause' column, "that the reason for multiple declutching to reach the synchronization speed of the engine for the selected gear as quickly as possible. To achieve this multiple declutching is activated until the sychronization speed is reached. During this process the car does not accelerate."
I would therefore deduce that mine is working incorrectly?
Maybe - perhaps you are being oversensitive :cool:, but in your first post you describe a "surge". Mine definately does not surge, but you can get the car to sort of "pause", while the DSG box re-arranges the cogs. This usually happens in the circumstances outlined in my earlier post regarding "confusing" the box. Any pause is always less than or around a second, but it is noticeable, when you compare it to the 'boxes normal changes at lightning speed - it sort of leaves you without any drive, as though coasting, for a second or less. You get used to it, and anticipate when to use the manual paddles, and when to allow the kick-down to do it all for you :wink: :laugh: :drool:. There is never any surging or blatant holding back - as though somone had touched the brakes!
Do you know the build date of your car? It may have an old DSG ECU map, which may have subsequently been re-written. What is the 10th digit of your VIN? :nerd:
I will print off this info and take it in with me tuesday. Many thanks for the help
Lee
No worries, and good luck.
PS, I like the new sig pics - UK or overseas???
Rgds
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Cheers for getting back. My VIN has 7 as the 10th digit
Not sure about the build date, delivery inspection was carried out on 12/10/06 (may give a clue) (if the 10th digit is 7, does that mean its an 07 build?)
Ref the sig pics, i live in Germany as i am in the Army for me sins! We had snow the other day so ws out having some fun - thought the pics would make a change
Lee
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Cheers for getting back. My VIN is removed.
Ohh - if I were you, I'd edit out your VIN, or at least blank out with ****** the last six (I'd also blank out your reg no too). You never know if ringers or car theifs surf these boards! :sad: :angry:
Not sure about the build date, delivery inspection was carried out on 12/10/06 (may give a clue) (if the 10th digit is 7, does that mean its an 07 build?)
It is a 2007 model year. You should have silver knobs on your radio, and a few other tweaks to the general specification. You should really have an uptodate ECU map for the DSG - won't hurt to ask the dealer for any later revisions though. :wink:
Ref the sig pics, i live in Germany as i am in the Army for me sins! We had snow the other day so ws out having some fun - thought the pics would make a change
Lee
Ahh, never got to Germany as a Crab, I only managed Sardinia and Denmark. I might PM you regarding a trip I plan, for east Germany & Poland, when my new RS4 turns up. :wink:
Rgds
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Cheers as always for the advice, jone!
The RS4 is a lovely motor, was toying with that against the R32, but the cost was a tad more! RS6, well, thats for when i win the lottery!!
Many thanks, and Ill keep you updated.
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Do me a favour, can you edit the VIN on your quote blocks in previous posts?
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Done :)
Intresting read this thread :afro:
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Cheers
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Done :)
Haa - thanks for that JV. You had me worried, I was just wondering HTF someone called "jv" could edit my post. Good job someone still at the helm whilst SWMBO drags me away from the 'puter! :wink:
fx/on <looks over shoulder to see if she's lurking> fx/off :sad: :wink:
Intresting read this thread :afro:
Yeah, well there's naff all on the box, and it's a bit chilly outside! :rolleyes: :smug:
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Do me a favour, can you edit the VIN on your quote blocks in previous posts?
Whoops, I'm as bad as you! :embarassed: :embarassed: :embarassed: :embarassed: :embarassed:
Good job the Admins are on the ball during my, ahem, enforced absence, ahem (SWMBO) :laugh: :grin:
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The RS4 is a lovely motor, was toying with that against the R32, but the cost was a tad more! RS6, well, thats for when i win the lottery!!
The GTI (the Wifes) is the daily drive for commuting, shopping etc. My current S4 is mainly used for longer runs (due to the appauling urban thirst for V-power - 11mpg around town - owch!), usually down the south of France for a month at a time, and this will be replaced by the RS4.
I did consider the new S6 with the 5.2 V10 motor from the Lamborghini, and whilst the engine was to die for, the B-road handling was very poor, even compared to my current S4, and the tiptronic auto box is just utterly awful. The older style RS6 also shares the same slush . . . I mean tiptronic auto box, and is really suited to high speed blasts down the Autobahns, rather than tight twistys, where the Golf and the S4 excell!
Rgds
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Saw the RS4 on UK Gold Top Gear again today, the one where he races the climbers. Bloody lovely - however Im torn between that and the avant RS4. Not seen one in the flesh yet and not got 50K either!
Interesting to know about the RS6 box though
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Just been out in an S3 today (2.0 T 263hp quattro) thats a quick car, would leave my GTI for dead and im sure, but dont quote me on this it uses the GTI engine..............now wheres that chip ?
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Saw the RS4 on UK Gold Top Gear again today, the one where he races the climbers. Bloody lovely
Ahh - Top Gear at it's very best - now why has everthing suddenly turned rose coloured??? :drool: :tongue: :laugh:
however Im torn between that and the avant RS4.
Horses for courses and all that. The RS4 saloon has a stiffer (due to the metalwork at the rear parcel shelf) yet lighter bodyshell than the Avant, giving everso slightly better acceleration. The RS4 Avant would be better for shifting Dobermens or fridge-freezers at a rabid rate.
Yes, there is a typo up there, but it is quite appropriate. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Not seen one in the flesh yet and not got 50K either!
Ohh, get down to your dealer, they will have either an Avant or saloon on demo, and you just gotta sit in those bucket seats - the closest thing to being back in the womb!
Interesting to know about the RS6 box though
As the dealer discussed with me when I returned the S6, once you have tasted the nectar that is DSG, no other auto-box will seem nowhere near as good. The conventional Audi tiptronic autobox is particularly $hit, especially when you compare it to the BMW 3 series autobox.
Rgds
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Hi Lee
How did you get on at the stealers yesterday (Tuesday)??
Also noticed on an older thread - http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=50891.0, you still have some pics with your reg plate on show - you might wanna delete the front and rear images which show your plate, and just leave the rest, so we can still drool ! :wink: :drool: :smiley:
Rgds
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OK, my trip to Sennelager!
Well, an hour an a half journey turned into 2 and a half hours! I was fully expecting to get absolutely knowhere with any of my complaints, but had some good and some bad news!
Firstly, the DSG change down. The 'Technical' guy from VW took the car out around some twisties and to be honest, i did thee old 'holding on to the door' thing that the misses does when i go over 60mph! - not saying he was hanging about but bloody hell!!
Well, i had the car stealer rep in the back holding on for grim life, trying to translate this german and he knew his stuff alright! (not the car dealer - the german VW bloke!) After much up and down changing, wacking it into 1st at 30 plus other mad things, he deduced that it was all working fine.
We have recently spoken on here about 'confusing the gearbox' - well this is what i think he was getting at. I still argue the point that if you are manually going down through the box, then the selection of the lower gear should work fine. He tells me that the car assumes you will select the next GEAR UP, which is where the delay comes and the momentary surge of power as it realises that it is thinking to far ahead!
He checked to see if there was an ECU upgrade, but all is up to date, so there we are!
The dealer guy said in his ignorance, "does it happen in normal drive mode?" i said it is not so noticable as the changing down is later, so he said "well cant you just drive it in automatic then?"
He clearly did not take in any of what the german guy said about the technicality of the gearbox, the immense amount of money pushed into development of the DSG and the sheer advances it has!
Secondly, the Steering Issue. After again doing many tests and yet more driving around scrubbing the tyres of a few more miles, he deduced there was an issue regarding the steering. I said that there was a noise coming from the brakes also on full lock and once we were back in VW HQ, he played me a sound file on the rather dated PC he had, which was exactly the noise mine made!
He said - "good yar" "we at VW know about this problem but we do not know what to do about it yet, so when we do, we will call you"
Obviously this was all in German so didnt understand a bloody word of it, but thats what the rather white looking dealer bloke looked like after his short test drive!
So thats the long and short of it - DGS: All Ok, Im basically being picky and asking to much and Steering: Yeh you got a problem, dont call us, we'll call you!
So, drove back along the Autobarn and nudged 160 following a BMW M5. Bloody wind noise was quite loud, so may bring that up when i speak to VW again!!!! (just kidding)
Id like to thank all that contributed towards my quest for a normal steering car and a finely tuned gearbox especially 'Teutonic_Tamer' for his expert knowledge.
Speak soon no doubt.
Drive safe (like me)
Lee