GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => General discussion => Topic started by: vw-bob on 16 January 2007, 17:49
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i might have the opportunity to get a set of porsche phonedial alloys. a neighbour's friend has a porsche 944 that is just sitting rotting. so he is going to have a word with him and see if i could have a look at it :grin: but the rims are 5 stud and ive got 4 stud. how hard is it to change and what is envolved??
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As simple as buying some adaptors
Like spacers with your 4 studs on it , then the 5 stud you need and the other side
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As simple as buying some adaptors
Like spacers with your 4 studs on it , then the 5 stud you need and the other side
like the ones sold here:
http://www.performancealloys.com/alloy_wheels_adaptors.asp
the only thing u need to find out is the offset of the wheels, so that you know what width of adaptor you need, the offset should be stamped on the inside of the wheel and have 'ET' followed by a number...
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Speaking from experience here... My golf mk3 has had GTI hubcaps put on it (4 to 5 stud). Now although it was done before I bought the car, I had alot of trouble changing the brakes when I needed new discs and pads, because it didn't all fit together like it should for a 1.8 . Unless there's an easier way then changing the hubs, try and find out the serial number for the brakes you'll need to fit the calipers, I ended up getting stung for labour because it took them 2 days to find a set that fit!
I know it's not much help on the technical side of things but just a heads up.
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rob:
these adaptor plates dont need a change of hubs, they are simply spacers which bolt onto the face of the hub, the only difference is that the side that bolts onto the hub is the right fittment for the car, while the side that the wheel bolts onto is different, in order to fit wheels from other marques to your car.
example being the 4x100 vw - 5x130 porsche adaptors.
if u were to look at the two side of the adaptor they would be different, one would have 4 holes 100mm apart, which the other side would have 5 holes 130mm apart. thats why they need to be at least 25mm thick, so there is enough space for the wheel both threads to take hold.
HTH
mase
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To be honest I wouldm't trust those things on my car. If I wanted 5 studs badly enough I'd modify the hubs.
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so are they not completely safe then?? :undecided:
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i would say they are.... IMO a company like H&R wouldnt sell them if they werent, and they are uber popular in dub circles when it comes to fitting bmw / porsche / merc wheels.
i know a guy who runs 20mm spacers on a 120bhp turbo cinquecento, and they are exactly the same design, bolt onto the hub, then the wheel bolts onto the spacer using standard wheel bolts.... i used to run 15mm ones on a punto engined cinq, and have never heard of problems with them bein unsafe.
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cheers...i think i will have to have a word with my neighbour to let me have a look at them.. i will post pics when they're on
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i know a guy who runs 20mm spacers on a 120bhp turbo cinquecento,
120bhp in a cinquecento !
theres probably more danger of the body shell crumpling under acceleration than the wheels coming off. :laugh:
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i know a guy who runs 20mm spacers on a 120bhp turbo cinquecento,
120bhp in a cinquecento !
theres probably more danger of the body shell crumpling under acceleration than the wheels coming off. :laugh:
LMAO.... it is very very rapid, both in acceleration and deceleration, punto gt front brakes discs, uno turbo rear discs... proper mental little machine!
ill dig the link out if your really interested! :evil:
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To get a solid fixing for the studs you're gonna need a pretty substantial spacer - which pushes the wheel away from the hub. Added to that porsche wheels are gonna be wider, and probably with a lower offset which basically means more shear pressure directly on the spacer. I'm not saying it won't work or that it will fail, I just wouldn't feel comfortable knowing that I was weakening my setup like that - it's a principle thing :grin:
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judging by the comments they seem to have a more negative look than a positive one...are there any other ways of making 4 stud to 5 stud?
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You could invest in new hubs - not a cheap option though.
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while were on the subject, sort of, Ive always wondered if it would be possible to fill in the existing holes of an alloy and just drill new ones.
I can't see that it would pose to much of a problem for a decent alloy refurb company.
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The shear forces will be on the studs holding the adaptor to the hub, not the adapter itself (it is just a solid lump of metal afterall). With the higher offset of the porsche wheels the shear forces on those studs, will be no more than those applied to the studs that would hold any other wheel directly to your hub.
As long as the studs are grade 8.8.. your drive shafts are more likely to fail under shear before they will. Also, you don't need as many turns as you may think to get a 'solid' fixing so the adapter doesn't have to be all that thick.
A countersunk 20mm bedding in a steel adapter gives you a failure load of 11 metric tonnes PER BOLT! Each stud itself can withstand a shear load of 5.8 metric tonnes.(23.2 tonnes per wheel). We were talking about this in the office, trying to think of a situation where a ~1000KG car might be put under those forces at one corner. You'd basically need to drop it off a high-rise building on to one wheel to recreate those forces.. at which point we all agreed something else would probably fail on the car first (suspension / turret most likely)
So according to a bunch of bored structural engineers, wheel adapters are pretty damn safe. I'd choose steel over aluminium though.
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^^ here endetht he lesson! in my opinion the amount of people with porsche wheels on golfs over all these years without hearing of a single accident related to the adaptors.... i'd be happy with that.
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Yeah, I was thinking of pursuing this just for curiosities sake, but as has been said I doubt they'd be selling the things if they ever failed. Although I doubt you'd have to drop a car off a building to damage a normal hub let alone one with an adaptor :laugh: And do they make studs out of 8.8? I'd imagine it's at least 10.9 grade.
If I wanted to do it I'd be tempted to weld the holes in the hub up and redrill them to the PCD you want - you wouldn't be forced to have your wheels sticking further out either.
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In 9 years I've never specified a bolt of higher grade than 8.8, and I've done some pretty big steel frame structures :grin:
tbh you need something to space porsche wheels out anyway to correct the offset, otherwise the inner face will be hitting the struts.
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Along the same lines
MK1 4 stud to 5 Stud , a matter of bolting on suitable hubs ? or much harder work ?
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In 9 years I've never specified a bolt of higher grade than 8.8, and I've done some pretty big steel frame structures :grin:
Without going too far off topic what do you do? Few years ago I took on a summer job in a steel fabrication plant as a cad monkey - turned into a summer + a whole year job :laugh: Loved it! We only used 8.8 grade bolts too, if it needed to be stronger you just used bigger bolts or more of them :grin:
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Along the same lines
MK1 4 stud to 5 Stud , a matter of bolting on suitable hubs ? or much harder work ?
u talkin about going 4x100 -> 5x100? im guessing its for fitting late dub or even audi wheels? if so then the bore will be the same so it wouldnt be too hard.
id go down the adaptor route again tho..... a 4x100 - 5x100 adaptor is readily available, and as tropher so expertly put it, they are uber safe!!!
there is 1 limiting thing with adaptors tho, and thats the change in wheel offset, as i said the narrowest they do them in is 20mm, so that will lower your offset 20mm, pushing the wheel further out of the arch
thats all well and good if u have a porsche or merc wheels with a 50 or 60mm offset, but if your sticking with dub wheels then a 20mm adaptor would result in an offset down at about 18, you then run the risk of the wheels sticking out from under your arches too much, mr MOT man and mr police man dont like that :tongue:
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Well i was thinkin or a more permanent measure
im sure there have been cases where VR6 hubs have been fitted ?