GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Godzilla on 06 December 2006, 11:08
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there are a few 'v's' in the title :grin:
Ive owned my GTI valve for 10 months now and am really happy with it. My prev' car was an Astra GTE 16v. Comparing them both.
Golf GTI 16v 1991 pro's... Good handling, great brakes (they have been upgraded to 280mm though) Build quality, space, great driving position, parts....and of course the VW Golf GTI image!
Cons.... Ok-ish performance, fuel economy.
Vauxhall Astra MK2 GTE 16v pro's.... Incredible performance, economy, digi-dash (very informative although a lot of people thought it looked tatty and cheap).
Cons.... Handling, not really a true drivers car unlike the Golf and Pug GTI's. Build quality, Space and of course the typical Vauxhall tin worm that seems to eat the entire car before your own eyes!
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Yeah you summed it up preaty good there Paul, i've owned both as well and love the golf over the astra. :wink:
But thats just my OP
Darren
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what sort of power out put was the astra?
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The engine used in the Astra GTE 16v is the same as the Cavalier GSI, Calibra 16v and early Astra GSI's. Its called a C20 XE or better known as 'The Redtop' They produce 156bhp. This fiqure of 156bhp is correct unless it has a Cat fitted (91 onwards) which then drops it to 150bhp. The later Astra GSI's, Calibra 16v's were fitted with an Ecotech engine producing 136bhp. This engine is easy to tell as it has ECOTECH in huge writting on the rocker cover....unlike the red band with Vauxhall DOHC 16v stamped on, far better engine than the Ecotech, regarding performance.
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I had mine up too 142 :grin: :laugh: :grin: :laugh: (well showing on the digi dash) was top 4 acceleration and top speed was preaty dam good 2....
Darren
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142.....i had 142mph showing on mine too!! Gotta agree on very very quick acceleration. Beat many cars in it including my mates brand new (at the time) 325i coupe....he was not happy :grin: Trouble is they are not a great drivers car, handle like poo and rust like mad. I have found my MK2 GTI 16v to be a great drivers car and handle WELL :smiley: :smiley:
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GOLF 16 Valve - the engine with a astra 16v red top planted in it now theres a thought :grin: :grin: :grin:
Darren
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GOLF 16 Valve - the engine with a astra 16v red top planted in it now theres a thought :grin: :grin: :grin:
Darren
sacrilege!!
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d181/Neaty/hdu.jpg)
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Why bother with the red top conversion - just tweak your Valver !!! :laugh:
Full stainless system / 4 - 1 stainless manifold / induction and WUR mod and you'll see the sunny side of 150 easy !!
Sure, that's not like for like i guess but i can't help but grin everytime i drive mine in this state. Had a GPS confirmed 141 (on an air strip) before the red line too, but end of the peak power.
Got the youth of today are missing out - the hot hatch just isn't the same any more !!
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you see if the astra wasnt faster than the golf then no one would buy it, if it didnt handle, stop, look or wasnt as well made as the golf as well as being slower then there would be no point. Much like the new VXR, the 240ps is just saying "hey look at me i am faster" .....yea until you get on a road with some bends in it.
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Got the youth of today are missing out - the hot hatch just isn't the same any more !!
You dammm right there David  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:
What we got now a 1.2 16v sxi Corsa or like wise... :sad:  :sad:  :sad:
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Neaty have you driven a vxr??
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Sure, that's not like for like i guess but i can't help but grin everytime i drive mine in this state. Had a GPS confirmed 141 (on an air strip) before the red line too, but end of the peak power.
What gearbox have you got in your valver? It would have to be pretty much on the limiter to do that speed with the standard ratios.
I know this because mine showed me 135mph @ 7k in fifth gear...that was GPS speed aswell.
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sadly not, just going off what reports i have read and reviews i have seen, top gear for example.
Am I off the mark?
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Am I off the mark?
Not at all my man, i've driven 5(i'm a vauxhall mechanic) of these monsters and I tell you they are QUICK in a straight line well thats if you can hold onto the TORQUE steer :grin:
Yes they are quick but 240ps through a front wheel drive car... come on now lets get a little bit sensible a ???? :undecided:
Darren
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Am I off the mark?
Not at all my man, i've driven 5(i'm a vauxhall mechanic) of these monsters and I tell you they are QUICK in a straight line well thats if you can hold onto the TORQUE steer :grin:
Yes they are quick but 240ps through a front wheel drive car... come on now lets get a little bit sensible a ???? :undecided:
Darren
ah good, i thought i was talking jibberish :laugh:
bet it makes ur day intersting though! I only got to drive Golf TDI 105ps, sh!troen C3's at my old work but then occasionally a civic type r.
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Jibberish oh no.....
Yes it breaks up the day when you get to play in a Slightly faster car :grin: :laugh: :grin: :laugh:
Darren
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do many of them come back in with problems?
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No not yet reliable so far...
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I know I've come in a bit late on this debate, but the Astra GTE mk1 would - dare I say it - give the mk2 a run for it's money in the handling stakes. Sure, the 1.8 engine in it was a bit underpowered, but a red top 16v mk1 against a mk2 valver... I've got to be honest, I wouldn't like to bet on the winner.
I used to be a vauxhall boy, up until recently - the mk1 Astra's were a serious piece of kit. Mk2's were good, just a bit soggy in terms of handling and it got worse from there on in.
Given the choice? A mk1 Astra with a red top would get me spending my money - the 1998cc vaux red top is the engine of it's time.
Yes, Len, that includes the Mi16 :laugh:
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Yes, Len, that includes the Mi16 :laugh:
dont get him started :tongue: :grin:
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sadly not, just going off what reports i have read and reviews i have seen, top gear for example.
Am I off the mark?
Ive a cdti 150bhp astra sport hatch
pretty much same 0-60 as the Golf and I'd be confident that it could easily hold its own against the golf on a twisty B road... that being said the golf is almost 20 years older and I have only done 500 miles in it since Ive got it so have little confidence so far... Ive sat up the hole of alot of supposidely half decent cars in the astra (Accord Type R for one Ibiza Cupra 10VT for another) with no bother... I think people just like to slag vauxhalls lol
I wouldn't slate them till you drive them though, theyre decent enough motors, just need TLC when they get older :smiley: made be a bit angry when clarkson got the VXR vectra, turned ATC off, turned wheel fully right and floored it... then complained about understeer... what a muppet :huh:
Thats the pub expert brigade slagging the VXR vectra off forever lol
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i had a 1.6 petrol astra as a courtesy car last year, and tbh it handled well and was pretty nippy.
the point i was making about them not handling well is when they put 240ps through the front wheels, which as a rule of thumb is too much anyway.
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er.... modern cars vs 16year old + cars..... good comparison we are getting into there. :rolleyes:
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i think the topic has stemmed onto mark 5 gti vs astra vxr.
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Good job i didn't bother reading page 2 then really isn't it.
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er.... modern cars vs 16year old + cars..... good comparison we are getting into there. :rolleyes:
More of a defend the vauxhalls thread, I did mention that theres a 20 year age difference in the cars and in that respect the Golf still performs remarkably.
Alot of anti-vauxhallism (if theres such a word) usually stemming from pub chat and Jeremy Clarkson IMO and not much hard fact
Oh and the CDTi astra is just as good a drive as the Golf TDi, comes better specd and a dam lot nicer looking IMO
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if there is one thing that the astra is let down by is lack of cup holders!
mark 5 tdi at work was ideal for a lunch time mcdonalds trip, drinks and mcflurry stored safely. the astra on the other had was lacking cash :grin:
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there are a few 'v's' in the title :grin:
Ive owned my GTI valve for 10 months now and am really happy with it. My prev' car was an Astra GTE 16v. Comparing them both.
Golf GTI 16v 1991 pro's... Good handling, great brakes (they have been upgraded to 280mm though) Build quality, space, great driving position, parts....and of course the VW Golf GTI image!
Cons.... Ok-ish performance, fuel economy.
Vauxhall Astra MK2 GTE 16v pro's.... Incredible performance, economy, digi-dash (very informative although a lot of people thought it looked tatty and cheap).
Cons.... Handling, not really a true drivers car unlike the Golf and Pug GTI's. Build quality, Space and of course the typical Vauxhall tin worm that seems to eat the entire car before your own eyes!
okish perfformance are you having a laugh lol
im not messing about iv'e only had my gti for about 2 weeks but it's stupidly fast :S i know mines had a bit of work done to it 4-2-1 manifold stainless steel exhaust etc but it's stupidly fast...
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^^^^^^^ *agrees*
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Ok maybe i should have put good performance, but i was comparing it to an Astra GTE 16v which are very very fast.....in a straight line. On the twistys and they are cr@p. They look dated, rust, horrible driving position and rattle. The C20 XE (Red Top) engines were all made in West Germany and produced a healthy 156bhp but most made 158-161bhp on the rollers. The Cav's and later Astra GSI's had a cat fitted so took it down to 150bhp.
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Ok maybe i should have put good performance, but i was comparing it to an Astra GTE 16v which are very very fast.....in a straight line. On the twistys and they are cr@p. They look dated, rust, horrible driving position and rattle. The C20 XE (Red Top) engines were all made in West Germany and produced a healthy 156bhp but most made 158-161bhp on the rollers. The Cav's and later Astra GSI's had a cat fitted so took it down to 150bhp.
then i can safly say my car is more than 160bhp lol iv'e driven the mgzr's and mgtf 160 wich is a 158bhp rear wheel or front wheel my golf would woop it sideways lol
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there are a few 'v's' in the title :grin:
Ive owned my GTI valve for 10 months now and am really happy with it. My prev' car was an Astra GTE 16v. Comparing them both.
Golf GTI 16v 1991 pro's... Good handling, great brakes (they have been upgraded to 280mm though) Build quality, space, great driving position, parts....and of course the VW Golf GTI image!
Cons.... Ok-ish performance, fuel economy.
Vauxhall Astra MK2 GTE 16v pro's.... Incredible performance, economy, digi-dash (very informative although a lot of people thought it looked tatty and cheap).
Cons.... Handling, not really a true drivers car unlike the Golf and Pug GTI's. Build quality, Space and of course the typical Vauxhall tin worm that seems to eat the entire car before your own eyes!
okish perfformance are you having a laugh lol
im not messing about iv'e only had my gti for about 2 weeks but it's stupidly fast :S i know mines had a bit of work done to it 4-2-1 manifold stainless steel exhaust etc but it's stupidly fast...
LOL, Have you ever driven a proper fast car :grin: Has your 16v been r/r at 160 bhp then? MK2 16v's in standard guise just ain't that fast 8 seconds to 60 or whatever the book says is never going to break any records, I get fed up with people banging on about how fast valvers are :grin: but what you loose in power you more than get back in the COOL stakes :cool:
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I dont particuarly care about this seemingly pointless arguement......
I just know id prefer a Golf Gti 16v over a Astra GTE 16v anyday...
Its all about personal choice..
Thank you :)
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LOL, Have you ever driven a proper fast car :grin: Has your 16v been r/r at 160 bhp then? MK2 16v's in standard guise just ain't that fast 8 seconds to 60 or whatever the book says is never going to break any records, I get fed up with people banging on about how fast valvers are :grin: but what you loose in power you more than get back in the COOL stakes :cool:
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I hope so!! My step Dad has a Ferrari 348ts and best mate an Escort Cossie RR tested at 377bhp....been in load of Ford mags. One of the doorman i work with has not long had an Evo 7....fantastic car, great handling and performance, nothing on my mates Cossie though, there again the Cossie has 100bhp more!
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I once drove my mates Pea green 1.0 Nova complete with 4-speed box. It had a hole in the drivers door to reduce weight aswell.
No that's a proper quick motor :cool:
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you have seen nothing until you have driven a citroen c3 1.4 impression! it has hugh grant as a gear box
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I once drove my mates Pea green 1.0 Nova complete with 4-speed box. It had a hole in the drivers door to reduce weight aswell.
No that's a proper quick motor :cool:
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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nissan micra 1.0 litre now thats a a true drivers car. :laugh:
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A modified 16v KR motor is hard to beat when tuned in a mk2 which has been set up properly, on getting my 16v rebuilt with a Very ported head and WUR mod and fuel pressures sorted along with a good exhaust/early green ECU and cams/k&n panel filter, it stuffed an Integra typr "R" to 120mph, and that was with a dodgy fuel pump :wink: hoping for 180bhp with a new fuel pump :wink:
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Ok maybe i should have put good performance, but i was comparing it to an Astra GTE 16v which are very very fast.....in a straight line. On the twistys and they are cr@p. They look dated, rust, horrible driving position and rattle. The C20 XE (Red Top) engines were all made in West Germany and produced a healthy 156bhp but most made 158-161bhp on the rollers. The Cav's and later Astra GSI's had a cat fitted so took it down to 150bhp.
then i can safly say my car is more than 160bhp lol iv'e driven the mgzr's and mgtf 160 wich is a 158bhp rear wheel or front wheel my golf would woop it sideways lol
the mg would be a lot heavier than a mk2 golf though, so it evens things out a bit.
ive been in a mates xe'd nova a few times and that thing is seriously quick!
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The astra was a 2.0 And the mk2 16v is a 1.8 Now fit in a sexy ABF or 9a Then lets go racin!!! And no more talk of fitting that griffin under the bonnet of a dub please! thats like fitting a hemi in a chevy! :nerd:
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xe is still better :cry:
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But is it better than the nissan red top!!!!! From the primera!
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sadly not, just going off what reports i have read and reviews i have seen, top gear for example.
Am I off the mark?
Ive a cdti 150bhp astra sport hatch
pretty much same 0-60 as the Golf and I'd be confident that it could easily hold its own against the golf on a twisty B road... that being said the golf is almost 20 years older and I have only done 500 miles in it since Ive got it so have little confidence so far... Ive sat up the hole of alot of supposidely half decent cars in the astra (Accord Type R for one Ibiza Cupra 10VT for another) with no bother... I think people just like to slag vauxhalls lol
I wouldn't slate them till you drive them though, theyre decent enough motors, just need TLC when they get older :smiley: made be a bit angry when clarkson got the VXR vectra, turned ATC off, turned wheel fully right and floored it... then complained about understeer... what a muppet :huh:
Thats the pub expert brigade slagging the VXR vectra off forever lol
i pooed on an astra sri sport hatch td in the bora!