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Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: japes1275 on 12 May 2024, 20:44

Title: GTI or R?
Post by: japes1275 on 12 May 2024, 20:44
I’m thinking of getting a Mk7.5 R or GTI Performance and wonder if anyone who has had both can offer any advice on which might be more suitable. The R is obviously a lot quicker but the only thing I have to go off on paper is the 0-60 time and obviously 4WD is going to help massively with that. Is the GTI noticeably slower or once on the move does it feel similar? I’ve always thought the GTI to be the better choice as it’s what a hot hatch is all about but part of me thinks that after a while I might wish I’d gone for the R! I’ve test driven an R and an older GTI but it’s very difficult to get a true picture on a 20 minute drive when most of it is in town traffic near the dealer!
My driving style is mostly ‘mature’ but I want something that I can live with every day and also have some fun with on a twisty B road. I currently have a 7.5 with a GTD engine and although it’s reasonably quick it’s not really got the punch I’d like and the the dull drone from the diesel grates after a while!!
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: Watts on 12 May 2024, 20:48
Would a TCR be in budget? R engine, GTI chassis with some nice upgrades.
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: japes1275 on 12 May 2024, 21:32
Actually I was just looking at the TCR reviews just before I posted, the firmer suspension, 19” wheels and lower splitter etc put me off. I saw one at the dealer and it is a nice looking car but probably a bit too extreme for me. I’d also have to get a higher mileage one to be anywhere near my budget so another downside. Look very nice in grey though!!
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: symonh2000 on 13 May 2024, 07:24
We have a GTI PP, with manual gearbox. Whilst most of the time it feels fast enough it has caught me out a couple of times when overtaking, when it didn't have as much power at the top of the rev and speed range as it does at the bottom.

If buying another Golf I would go with the R no question, that is before factoring in the better traction.
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: Watts on 13 May 2024, 10:22
it didn't have as much power at the top of the rev and speed range as it does at the bottom.

This was one of the main reasons I swapped from a PP to a TCR. The PP was great most of the time but runs out of puff just as it gets exciting. The TCR/R engine is brilliant.
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: Hertsman on 13 May 2024, 10:46
Had a 66 plate MK 7 R for 3 years, then a 69 Plate TCR for 3 years, and our second car is now a MK 7.5 2019 R and can safely say from that experience, that they are all just different flavours of very good, with no decision for any being wrong.

The original R had the 6 speed DSG, the facelift has the 7 speed DSG, which seem to allow better ratio for Race, and so was more drivable on local roads in that setting (MK 7 hung onto gears too long) Aside from that, the drive of early and facelift R is pretty comparable. The Facelift R has the digital display and upgraded media and is overall better package than the MK 7, but its not a chasm, and anyone would be pretty much equally happy in a MK 7/7.5

The TCR has 290 BHP, so you get all the grunt of the R, it does not run out of puff as was mentioned, it just keeps pulling, and though there is some slippage at extreme pull aways, the TCR brilliantly handles that extra power, and its a fast, agile experience from being FWD and lighter overall. Mine had the performance pack with the DCC, and comfort was too soft, it pretty much stayed in normal. TCR is a great car to drive, and if the prices were not so premium I would have one in a heartbeat when my own BMW 128Ti goes back next year.

However, for £4-5k less, you can get a similarly specced, mileage Golf R and with the extra power, and AWD, you are really getting more of a car.

As stated, its different flavours of great, the lighter more agile TCR with a little bit of liveliness on front end, or the rapid, assured, on rails experience R gives you. Shame cannot have both, and switch on mood (if enough ££'s are available, I might be in that position)

At time, my heart would say, get the TCR, you know you loved it, my logic will say, save a few thousand and get the ultimate Golf experience of an R (Likely look for 3 door to be different to what already have)
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: Hertsman on 13 May 2024, 10:50
Actually I was just looking at the TCR reviews just before I posted, the firmer suspension, 19” wheels and lower splitter etc put me off. I saw one at the dealer and it is a nice looking car but probably a bit too extreme for me. I’d also have to get a higher mileage one to be anywhere near my budget so another downside. Look very nice in grey though!!

The firm suspension talk is more that, than reality, had DCC on my GTD, R, TCR all on 19" and my present MK 7.5 R has standard suspension and is completely compliant and would say a performance pack TCR was too cossetted in comfort, normal was an amazing ride setting, perfect even.

The rear splitter is not for everyone, but personally loved its rear, with the Akrapovic and subtle boot lip spoiler. (added same boot lip spoiler to my R loved it so much)
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: symonh2000 on 13 May 2024, 12:25
If I get another Golf to go with the GTI, it will be an R with a manual gearbox and a clutch upgrade done.

I prefer manuals to auto and dual clutch as they are more engaging IMO.
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: Exonian on 13 May 2024, 13:06
My posts can usually waffle on for pages without really saying much so I’ll keep it brief, mostly because it’s lunchtime and I need food!

GTI pros: much better looks, lighter feeling chassis, compliant ride, better on fuel, turbo spools at usefully lower revs preventing the DSG being caught in an off boost hole more often when driving maturely.

GTI cons: as previously mentioned, it’s a lovely torquey motor but can run out of puff like a GTD, however the DSG can offset that more than a manual as the former will change up and hit you with another slug of boost.
Wheelspin on occasion when driving less maturely.


R pros: much more revvy engine encouraging you to drive less maturely. The propshaft running between the axles gives the bodyshell a more rigid feel. Traction, obviously. Understated looks preferred by some.

R cons: every dual motor Tesla taxi driver wants to annihilate you at the traffic lights.
Looks a bit boring, especially inside.
30% worse on fuel than a GTD.
Engine can be caught off boost when driving maturely.


Conclusion: the R will feel more of a step up from a GTD



Lunchtime for me…
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: DSGboy on 13 May 2024, 15:02
For me the ar is a super capable, competent and rapid hatch.  Very quick point to point. All the time. Rain or shine. A comfy ,classy refined and safe way to transport your loved ones about in too. Makes lots of sense.  This can matter to the older amongst us.

The GTIhas the fizz, playfulness and fun character.  Feels it’s helping you, encouraging you to drive with a bit of flair.  Adds some excitement for some. The R just does it - and is seen as boring, dull, unexciting because of this.

A hard choice   But there’s no bad or wrong choice - just what, suits your needs best.  Good luck agonising.
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: Toeman on 13 May 2024, 20:37
Slight off topic but had tinkered with idea of changing my gti performance and had looked at few golf r they were basic spec with no added toys  and the interior was  slightly drab compared to the gti  that aside the garage beside myself just had in a Navarra blue s3  hatch back  which I took a drive in earlier. Traffic was bd nd no real opportunity to send it on. But the interior  again was bit of a let down  and agin few frills   Has anybody any thoughts on that compared to an r thanks
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: symonh2000 on 14 May 2024, 07:13
Isn't the S3 basically the same car?

Things like suspension settings (some have mag-ride) and other details may be different but underneath the skin they are fundamentally the same.

I was looking at S3's myself as a more sensible alternative to my M140i.

Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: Hertsman on 14 May 2024, 09:42
Isn't the S3 basically the same car?

Things like suspension settings (some have mag-ride) and other details may be different but underneath the skin they are fundamentally the same.

I was looking at S3's myself as a more sensible alternative to my M140i.

Never driven an S3 but from what understand it is basically the same car, but apparently the drive set up is not as keen as the R and so its a little less engaging, though you do imagine that its only for those who drive more spirited than most who would notice.

Have had Audi though, and interior is a little bit above the Golf in material, but I actually prefer the layout of the MK 7, not big fan of the pop up screen on Audi, but thats a subjective opinion only others may really like it.
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: symonh2000 on 14 May 2024, 11:02
I think the R is a bit of a victim of it's own success. There are loads around.

The S3 might be an option of you wanted a less common alternative?

As for us I would consider the S3 simply because we already have the Golf GTI and an R is a bit too similar in looks.

The S3 also comes as a saloon which i prefer the look off compared to the 5 door hatch.
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: Exonian on 14 May 2024, 14:15
Those on here that previously owned an S3 (mk7 era) reported very hard suspension.
The later ones (mk8 era) are much better for ride.

The Black Edition S3’s look really nice, far more classy than a Golf.
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: japes1275 on 14 May 2024, 14:49
Thanks all, some really good info and opinions there. Sounds like I wouldn’t be disappointed with either, maybe I’ll have to try harder to get a longer test drive in both to see what suits me better though. As discussed I’ve also considered an S3 but it would have to be the saloon as it looks much better than the hatch. Doubt I’ll go that route though as I’ve always had VW’s and will probably stick with what I know!

My current car isn’t actually a GTD it’s an Alltrack, so same 184bhp engine but with 4Motion. It a great car and suits me well for a lot of things (towing, winter driving, light off road etc) but as I said before is let down a bit by the engine. A 2.0 Tsi engine would have been perfect I reckon! It’s part of another dilemma as well, I’ve got another Mk7.5 Golf, a 1.5 GT estate, so which one do I chop in against the new car?! Both are good cars and have a few difficult to find extras. The 1.5 is actually better to drive (even though it is slower) as it’s a petrol, the seats are more supportive and it handles better. But the Alltrack is a bit more special and a very rare car - rarer than a TCR or Clubsport S maybe?! Obviously in the case of the Alltrack rarity probably has more to do with the fact not many people wanted them!!

So I think I’d better go and blag another test drive or two, probably the GTI first as I think it’s more ‘me’. Many moons ago I had a Mk2 8v GTI and after 6 months got bored with it and bought an Integrale. After another 6 months the Integrale itch had been scratched and the very same 8v GTI was back and I kept it for 4 years! Hopefully that won’t repeat itself or things could get very expensive!!

Cheers

Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: Exonian on 14 May 2024, 16:48
Ahh, well in that case why not replace one with a Golf R estate or if ground clearance is an issue then maybe a T-Roc R?
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: japes1275 on 14 May 2024, 17:37
Yes, sorry, if I got an R it would almost definitely be an estate. Probably not a T-Roc R as they are still a bit pricey, interior/equipment spec is a bit poor and I don’t think I could bring myself to own an SUV!
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: pixelcellar on 15 May 2024, 09:15
I was in your position and unsure as to what to get when my GTI PP lease was coming to an end. Did I go for another PP or get an R? Then the TCR popped back on my radar and well thats where I went. I've not got DCC, really doesn't need it, even on 19's though appreciate some like a floaty ride, in which case DCC in comfort will likely sort you out but without its plenty compliant whilst not rolling all the time. Didn't feel much difference switching from the 18's it came with to aftermarket Ultraleggara's either. I also love the fact that you just don't see them about much, I know there are around 3 or so in a 30 mile radius of me, I've never seen one on the road at all, certainly not in the only colour I'd have ever chosen, the grey.

Price as always comes into things, PP's are cheap enough and over time and spend money you could get it close to a TCR (kind of), R's are good to go but a bit safe and boring (and everyone has one), TCR's are in essence a limited edition 2wd R and are amazing to drive.

If you can afford one, go for it, a lot have mileage on them appropriate for the year, I was lucky and got one with 6k on it for similar prices to the 15+ k mileage cars out there and was pretty much pristeen. You'd not regret it, especially if you're looking to keep for a fair while like I am.
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: Fizzer on 23 May 2024, 22:40
I have a TCR and wife has 7.5 R. Both great cars but the TCR feels nippier and not as stoggy. Ride comfort on both (both on 19s) is fine for us mature drivers :smiley:
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: japes1275 on 24 May 2024, 23:07
Test driven a few cars in the last week or so. First was an R estate which I liked and can appreciate what people have said about it liking to be revved, it’s a beast but also happy to be docile. Then I drove a couple of GTis, both manual, one a PP Mk7 and the other a 7.5 non PP. (I’m half thinking now about having a cheaper GTI as a 3rd car)
The earlier PP car was great, more than enough power to have some fun and as mentioned a lot nimbler feeling than the R and definitely my Alltrack. The second one was an altogether different experience. I now think I know what a TCR might feel like to drive! The dealer didn’t say anything about it but it had a Miltek exhaust and once I’d got out of the traffic and gave it its first boot full I realised it must have been mapped. It made the R feel slow! Gave me a huge grin but probably not what I’m after, especially as the lack of suspension mods and non PP brakes made it a bit of a point and squirt machine.

So one thing is now clear to me, even the 227 GTI will be fast enough to entertain and be special enough to replace or run alongside the Alltrack. So just got to find the right car. I’ve been offered a good deal on the R estate and the early PP car is tempting as a 3rd car as it is V cheap. Decisions, decisions!!
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: japes1275 on 06 July 2024, 19:55
After a few weeks of searching and the usual upping of budget I’ve finally ended up with a nice 2018 GTi Performance DSG in White Silver with pan roof and Brescias. Not the best day to collect a car but had a nice gentle 130 mile drive back in the rain to get used to it. I’m so glad I held out for a 7.5 as I’ve driven a couple of 6 speed DSG cars recently and prefer the 7 speed’s sport mode. It’s got a fair few miles on it but it’s super smooth and feels like it’s 3 years old not 6. Only negatives are lack of spare wheel (didn’t realise it was an option), some naff paddle extensions (will remove them tomorrow) and what sounds and looks to me to be a performance exhaust. I’ll have to have a look in the morning to see if I can see a make on it. I’ll probably put it back to standard as I don’t really want to have to change my insurance. Plus I work nights and it will wake the neighbours!

Excuse the crap photo, just driven through a big rain storm!


(https://i.postimg.cc/3r1XFLrV/IMG-8051.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5jHQxSCS)
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: Watts on 06 July 2024, 20:34
Congratulations, looks great!
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: Rudedog on 06 July 2024, 21:58
Was the spare wheel an option?  I have one in mine with the jack etc. and mine is a basic mid-2019 car with only factory rear tints as an option.
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: japes1275 on 06 July 2024, 22:29
Well I’ve looked at at least half a dozen 7.5’s and they all had spares, this one though definitely looks like it’s never had one and it has a tyre inflation kit and goo. Maybe it was a case of it was an option to delete it instead of it being an option to buy one. It’s not a problem because I’ve got a space saver from my Alltrack so just need to buy a jack kit off eBay.

Just been crawling around under the car now it’s dried up and found that it has the standard back box but has had the middle box deleted. It’s a decent stainless pipe with Mikalor clamps so all good apart from the extra noise.



Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: Adam T7 on 07 July 2024, 07:03
Nice car.
Mine’s a very late 2018 model designated as a MY2019, spare wheel was standard.
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: SRGTD on 07 July 2024, 09:37
Well I’ve looked at at least half a dozen 7.5’s and they all had spares, this one though definitely looks like it’s never had one and it has a tyre inflation kit and goo. Maybe it was a case of it was an option to delete it instead of it being an option to buy one. It’s not a problem because I’ve got a space saver from my Alltrack so just need to buy a jack kit off eBay.

Just been crawling around under the car now it’s dried up and found that it has the standard back box but has had the middle box deleted. It’s a decent stainless pipe with Mikalor clamps so all good apart from the extra noise.

A spare wheel was standard on the mk7.5. There wasn’t an option to downgrade from a spare wheel to a tyre inflation kit + compressor.

New VW’s no longer have a spare wheel as standard though (a tyre inflation kit + compressor is the standard fitment on the mk8 Golf), so if the previous owner of your car bought a mk8 Golf, then they may well have kept the spare for their new car as it is the correct size for the mk8 Golf. They’d also save the £300 (current) cost of ordering a spare wheel with their new car :angry:.
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: japes1275 on 07 July 2024, 09:59
If it definitely came with one then I might have to have a word with the dealer I bought it from. I think it was first owned/used by the manager there and has always been serviced/sold on by them. Maybe it went to a disgruntled Mk8 owner who wasn’t happy his new car didn’t have a spare when collecting it!

It doesn’t even have the big plastic nut and screw to hold it in. The recess is carpeted but has a cut out in the shape of the polystyrene jack holder.

I’m a bit shocked at the price people are asking for the jack kits on eBay, I think one seller was asking £25 just for the polystyrene holder with nothing in it!
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: SRGTD on 07 July 2024, 11:06
If it definitely came with one then I might have to have a word with the dealer I bought it from. I think it was first owned/used by the manager there and has always been serviced/sold on by them. Maybe it went to a disgruntled Mk8 owner who wasn’t happy his new car didn’t have a spare when collecting it!

It doesn’t even have the big plastic nut and screw to hold it in. The recess is carpeted but has a cut out in the shape of the polystyrene jack holder.

I’m a bit shocked at the price people are asking for the jack kits on eBay, I think one seller was asking £25 just for the polystyrene holder with nothing in it!

The mk7.5 Golf Price and Spec brochure dated May 2020 at the link below is probably the last one for the UK spec mk7.5 Golf before the launch of the mk8 Golf. Up to the end of the mk7.5 Golf’s life all cars in the model range got a spare wheel with the exception of the GTE and GTE Advance petrol / electric hybrid models and the all-electric mk7.5 e-Golf. I dare say in those models, parts of the hybrid / electric powertrain (the batteries maybe?) use the space normally occupied by the spare wheel, hence no spare wheel in those models.

So with your car being a GTI Performance, it should definitely have a space saver spare.

https://www.vwpress.co.uk/assets/documents/original/26461-GolfMkVII.pdf
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: japes1275 on 07 July 2024, 17:40
Brilliant, thanks for that SRGTD, I think I’ll push them to at least supplying me with a jack kit seeing as I’ve already got a wheel spare. Unfortunately I don’t think I will be able to find the original ad from the VW website as it was taken down when I pointed out the photos were from 2022! I’m pretty sure the ‘list of standard equipment’ in the VW spec sheet would have said space saver spare wheel. Not that I’ve got a problem with the dealer, they were very good.

I’ll probably push the fact that not only are the spare wheel and jack missing but also part of the exhaust system!
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: SRGTD on 07 July 2024, 18:40
Brilliant, thanks for that SRGTD, I think I’ll push them to at least supplying me with a jack kit seeing as I’ve already got a wheel spare. Unfortunately I don’t think I will be able to find the original ad from the VW website as it was taken down when I pointed out the photos were from 2022! I’m pretty sure the ‘list of standard equipment’ in the VW spec sheet would have said space saver spare wheel. Not that I’ve got a problem with the dealer, they were very good.

I’ll probably push the fact that not only are the spare wheel and jack missing but also part of the exhaust system!

You’re welcome! :smiley: Please update the discussion topic once you’ve spoken to the dealer. Hopefully, they’ll provide you with the parts that were missing from your car.
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: japes1275 on 07 July 2024, 22:23
Thanks for posting the link to the price list, really interesting to see what was available and the cost. I wish the first owner had spent the £300 odd on something worthwhile like reversing camera or climate screen instead of the annoying keyless entry. They made a good choice with the pan roof and wheels though!

Yes, I’ll report back with any news.
Title: Re: GTI or R?
Post by: Adam T7 on 08 July 2024, 08:50
When I ordered mine the first option I dismissed was the keyless, also not a fan. Ticked the camera though, after 8 years of having one in a previous car, wouldn’t be without it. Because of the WLTP delays, by the time mine was delivered VW classed it as a MY19 even though it didn’t have keyless which was std by then.