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Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: AGB on 23 August 2022, 15:08
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Hello
I was reading a few articles around the release of the 20th Anniversary R (https://www.evo.co.uk/volkswagen/golf-r/204499/volkswagen-golf-r-20-years-the-fastest-golf-around-the-nurburgring) and while I don't really care much about 'ring times, they're an interesting marker of progress.
I'm not sure if the media or Volkswagen are actively talking about the R anniversary model as the fastest Golf ever round the ring but I've seen it touted in a few article headlines. Benny Leuchter made a second attempt after initially breaking the record which is fractionally quicker than the official time for the new R 20.
Quite remarkable that a 2016 car remains the quickest Golf round the 'ring six years on - a lifetime in development terms and an endorsement of what a superb car the CSS still is from a handling perspective to have been able to achieve that in the first place.
But hey, to most, it just looks like a Golf. :grin:
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A Golf 8 R is not for me, but what tyres was it using?
If it wasn't using the Cup 2's of the mk 7 CS-S, it''s even more impressive considering it is a heavier 5 door car?
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Maybe the 50th Anni GTI might move the game on as a last hurrah, but the R is a different creature and I doubt a huge amount of development has been spent on Golfs recently. Hot hatches are getting a bit passé now and most development is probably aimed towards making the ID cars slightly less rubbish than the Koreans manage to churn out.
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Quite impressive something as heavy as the 8R can do that sort of laptime... the CSS is stripped out.
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Leuchter has been putting in a lot of laps for R GmbH over the last few years with all sorts of electronics monitoring everything the car does. The damper settings in the R 20 Years will have been set up using this experience no doubt, and the trick rear diff must add a lot of assistance to the handling and sharpness on track rather than just being a MaccyD car park gimmick.
But this is at 10/10ths.
A CSS will feel special even at 3/10ths due to its lighter weight and bucket seats.
Grandma might prefer a lift down to the Post Office in the R though.
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A Golf 8 R is not for me, but what tyres was it using?
If it wasn't using the Cup 2's of the mk 7 CS-S, it''s even more impressive considering it is a heavier 5 door car?
If what I read is correct, it was on the same tyres. Agree, never been tempted by a Golf R.
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Maybe the 50th Anni GTI might move the game on as a last hurrah, but the R is a different creature and I doubt a huge amount of development has been spent on Golfs recently. Hot hatches are getting a bit passé now and most development is probably aimed towards making the ID cars slightly less rubbish than the Koreans manage to churn out.
You're absolutely right, it's a development dead end and they're divesting but it's hard to market a car slower than the previous model and VW have always touted the R as the quickest performance Golf. Doubt they'll do much more than some badging and a parts bin raid for a 50th - the world will be a different place when that comes to market.
I wish SUVs and the perverse variants and micro segmentations of them would get passé soon. :rolleyes:
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Leuchter has been putting in a lot of laps for R GmbH over the last few years with all sorts of electronics monitoring everything the car does. The damper settings in the R 20 Years will have been set up using this experience no doubt, and the trick rear diff must add a lot of assistance to the handling and sharpness on track rather than just being a MaccyD car park gimmick.
But this is at 10/10ths.
A CSS will feel special even at 3/10ths due to its lighter weight and bucket seats.
Grandma might prefer a lift down to the Post Office in the R though.
You're right. I was just musing on 'progress', not really a direct or fair comparison.
Days of these kinds of conversations are limited I guess, I can't see myself chatting about the merits of where to put the detergent on the ID GTI. :grin:
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I guess as a Porsche (pork?) enthusiast you’re used to a steady stream of constantly evolving heritage cars where the CSS came as a bolt out of the blue from conservative ol’ Volkswagen. Whether it’ll ever be repeated is doubtful, and in many ways I hope it isn’t as I doubt any sequel will be as good as the original and would be critiqued to the n’th degree.
With the aero being part of the mainstream production run cars now, all shells being 5 door and all transmissions being auto (except in the US) for the bigger turbo GTI/R engines there’s not a lot of scope for a CSS type mk8 despite factory outputs of 330PS now.
The chassis has been around for 10 years so has probably long since reached its peak development.
But if VW had the motivation to pull something out of the hat I’m sure they could.
What to you Porsche GT/Clubsport owning owners think VW could do to trump the mk7 CSS?
It would have to eclipse the mk7 version enough not to draw too much negative criticism and be financially attainable to mortal human beings. Full VW group parts bin at your disposal and some limited bumper/spoiler additions permitted…
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They won't do it now. The next big thing is trying to get a good ring time for a hatchback BEV...
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Maybe Honda might throw down the gauntlet with the new Type R but whether VW could be bothered to respond these days?
A two tonne BEV Scalextric hot hatch might not be too far off, most likely a 4WD GTX model. Probably the biggest challenge for it would not be how quick it could lap the Green Hell but whether it could actually stir some emotion.
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I dunno... think horses vs cars or prop aircraft vs jets...
Although Formula E does seem to have flopped a bit... but maybe when its more widespread as the only choice of motorised transport things will be different?
Its still early days for BEV's. At the moment the only differentiator is range, whether its got crap infotainment software (yes VW I am talking about YOU!) and the number of cup holders...
I am sure sooner or later the technology will diversify.
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I guess as a Porsche (pork?) enthusiast you’re used to a steady stream of constantly evolving heritage cars where the CSS came as a bolt out of the blue from conservative ol’ Volkswagen. Whether it’ll ever be repeated is doubtful, and in many ways I hope it isn’t as I doubt any sequel will be as good as the original and would be critiqued to the n’th degree.
With the aero being part of the mainstream production run cars now, all shells being 5 door and all transmissions being auto (except in the US) for the bigger turbo GTI/R engines there’s not a lot of scope for a CSS type mk8 despite factory outputs of 330PS now.
The chassis has been around for 10 years so has probably long since reached its peak development.
But if VW had the motivation to pull something out of the hat I’m sure they could.
What to you Porsche GT/Clubsport owning owners think VW could do to trump the mk7 CSS?
It would have to eclipse the mk7 version enough not to draw too much negative criticism and be financially attainable to mortal human beings. Full VW group parts bin at your disposal and some limited bumper/spoiler additions permitted…
Bit late replying, missed the notification. :embarrassed:
I doubt they'll repeat the formula to be honest and I agree with you. It won't stop their marketing team trying to attach importance to whatever metric they think will make the car noteworthy and saleable.
I tend to like cars that have originated from a skunkworks team - the BMW 1M, 981 GT4, MK7 CSS. Cars that shouldn't have been made or were unexpected but someone in engineering won a battle with the bean counters and got a car out the gate that enthusiasts wanted. A former client was the chap who secured the green light to do the 1M and it was clear that he bet the ranch but he was a petrolhead and understood the M car customer. But then the follow up acts with the 718 GT4 and M2 are cynical and lack some intangible element of the original.
The sad thing about most cars now is that they're about mobility, manufacturer cost saving or pure shareholder return. There are some incredible cars coming out of Porsche from an engineering point of view (GT3/4 RS) but they're halo cars, impossible to get hold of unless you spend an obscene amount to qualify for an order and they've just turned into an asset class that you can't enjoy without penalty. I regularly see cars with a few hundred miles on them trading at double their value new. You never see them at track days and they become mileage sensitive.
I hope that VW leave the CSS alone. If they were to do something, I'd like to see something with the 7.5 body shell. Custom BBS wheels, go to town on the suspension and steering feel to optimise handling. Maybe give it a little more power. Play with the ratios, add a short shift to the gearbox. Wishful thinking but you did ask! :laugh:
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The sad thing about most cars now is that they're about mobility, manufacturer cost saving or pure shareholder return.
As a tool for daily duties, that's all any of us need. There are plenty of interesting older cars that can be cherished and enjoyed on a sunny weekend if people can get past thinking that newer is better. The right car will also look after your money much better than the banks too.
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Has anyone driven Clubsport and/or a TCR and an R. I am asking for comparison purposes? I am desperate for a MK7.5 R, but unsure whether to try a TCR or MK7 Clubsport (Thats if there are any CS for sale).
I love point and shoot cars like the R, but was wondering whether or not there is more character with a Clubsport or TCR as I would prioritise fun and character over crazy 0-60s.
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Has anyone driven Clubsport and/or a TCR and an R. I am asking for comparison purposes? I am desperate for a MK7.5 R, but unsure whether to try a TCR or MK7 Clubsport (Thats if there are any CS for sale).
I love point and shoot cars like the R, but was wondering whether or not there is more character with a Clubsport or TCR as I would prioritise fun and character over crazy 0-60s.
Exonian has owned all three and has reviewed them a few times. I'm sure he'll be along sometime soon!
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Has anyone driven Clubsport and/or a TCR and an R. I am asking for comparison purposes? I am desperate for a MK7.5 R, but unsure whether to try a TCR or MK7 Clubsport (Thats if there are any CS for sale).
I love point and shoot cars like the R, but was wondering whether or not there is more character with a Clubsport or TCR as I would prioritise fun and character over crazy 0-60s.
Exonian has owned all three and has reviewed them a few times. I'm sure he'll be along sometime soon!
Lucky mofo! :grin: How are you finding your TCR? They are beautiful!
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I'd highly recommend a TCR, however I've not driven an R. CS40 looks great and drives really well too, I doubt you'd be disappointed!
The TCR has plenty of go and handles well too. It can understeer a little occasionally but I put that down to the Pirelli tyres on mine which aren't the best, will change them at some point. It has a solid purposeful look with the skirts, splitter, spoiler and diffuser which I like, not too ott. The dsg is not my favourite feature but is very good most of the time. Excellent economy too! As much as I love a CS, the MK7.5 benefits are worthwhile for a daily driver imo. Will be keeping mine a good long while!
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I'd highly recommend a TCR, however I've not driven an R. CS40 looks great and drives really well too, I doubt you'd be disappointed!
The TCR has plenty of go and handles well too. It can understeer a little occasionally but I put that down to the Pirelli tyres on mine which aren't the best, will change them at some point. It has a solid purposeful look with the skirts, splitter, spoiler and diffuser which I like, not too ott. The dsg is not my favourite feature but is very good most of the time. Excellent economy too! As much as I love a CS, the MK7.5 benefits are worthwhile for a daily driver imo. Will be keeping mine a good long while!
I seem to find Michelin Super Sports to be the best tyre.
I did have a 2015 S3 with a stage 1 map, but it was just a bit numb. I've driven a few Golf R's and they are a lot better than the Audi.
In regards to economy, what is the average mpg on A roads at speeds between 65mph - 80mph? How many miles do you get on a full tank? I do a 24 mile journey to work and 24 back home all on the A1, only about a mile each journey is town driving. Sorry for the 21 questions haha, it is just my GTD is not great on fuel and I'm hearing GTI owners getting the same as my GTD, which annoys me as I only got the GTD as I thought it would be far superior during my commutes and when visiting clients for work etc... So, even more reason to get a TCR if it isn't that much different.
With the end of combustion engines approaching fast, I want to enjoy a petrol sounding engine as long as possible... and those ohhhh so awesome DSG farts! :laugh:
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You mention Dsg, if that is the case I would look at the 7.5 TCR with the 7 speed over the older 6speed Dsg in the mk 7 Ed40.
I have driven a few mk7 / 7.5 now, on a run out with a manual 7.5 R, the owner couldn't believe how repsonsive my manual 7 ED40 was in handling and engine pick up. The R seems more a blunt instrument in comparison, yet the mk7 seems to talk to you more, especially with the bucket seats holding you in!
It depends what you are looking for in a car, but all of those you are considering, will have subtle differences in the way they drive.
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The gpf kills off the dsg farts but the exhaust has a nice deep tone, perfect for me but perhaps not enough for some. Economy wise, on long slow runs I've had over 50mpg but that's rare. 40+ mpg on a steady run is easily achieved, less in cold weather. My commute is only 6 miles and I get 33-35 dropping to 28 in the winter. My current long term average is 38mpg, miles from a tank? I don't generally look but I'd estimate close to 400 miles and 450 on long journeys.
I had MPS4S on my last car and they were excellent, all year round too. Will probably get them again but the new Goodyears and Continentals sound promising too.
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Jeez that’s good. Usually get about 260-280 miles from a tank!
Although I went to Cambridge and back today, about 170 miles and got 37mpg, best ever. Said I had a range of about 300 miles still but I’d never get near that. Don’t do motorway miles, and tend to drive like I’m being chased 🤣
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Jeez that’s good. Usually get about 260-280 miles from a tank!
Although I went to Cambridge and back today, about 170 miles and got 37mpg, best ever. Said I had a range of about 300 miles still but I’d never get near that. Don’t do motorway miles, and tend to drive like I’m being chased 🤣
:grin:
Just filled up today, good mix of driving, averaged 37mpg for the tank, 370 miles.
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I'd like to see something with the 7.5 body shell. Custom BBS wheels, go to town on the suspension and steering feel to optimise handling. Maybe give it a little more power. Play with the ratios, add a short shift to the gearbox. Wishful thinking but you did ask! :laugh:
I like your thinking there, wishful indeed though!
It’s interesting that you mention how Porsche stage manage who and how customers are allowed to buy their cars. It’s something clubsport has touched on before too. An enviable position for a manufacturer to be in.
Exonian has owned all three and has reviewed them a few times. I'm sure he'll be along sometime soon!
Lucky mofo!
Financially hammered mofo after that little period of my life!
Everyone should own a 7R at some point in their life. They’re very very good cars.
Some say they’re dull but they’re not, it’s just hard to get the best out of them on public roads.
Utterly planted and very rapid, or sedate and solid. They can do it all. Not great on fuel though.
The Ed40 Clubsport much lighter on its toes, has the most character of any of the mk7’s.
TCR was the perfect swansong. It’s like everything VW learned about the mk7’s and everything they wanted to hone ready for the mk8 Clubsport was put into that model. For me it was the most aesthetically pleasing of all the mk7 generation along with the best GTI engine tune with the full fat 290 PS permanently available.
Just a shame it was DSG only.
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Jeez that’s good. Usually get about 260-280 miles from a tank!
Although I went to Cambridge and back today, about 170 miles and got 37mpg, best ever. Said I had a range of about 300 miles still but I’d never get near that. Don’t do motorway miles, and tend to drive like I’m being chased 🤣
:grin:
Just filled up today, good mix of driving, averaged 37mpg for the tank, 370 miles.
So, realistically I am only getting about 400-430 Max with normal driving in the GTD. If I coast behind lorries and drive like a granny I can get just under 500, but I am not doing that anymore. Petrol is cheaper, so it is probably working out about the same then. Defo even more tempted now. Especially, after seeing a Golf R at the weekend that had a valvetronic straight pipe. Nice and quiet in eco, then spits flames in race mode :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Jeez that’s good. Usually get about 260-280 miles from a tank!
Although I went to Cambridge and back today, about 170 miles and got 37mpg, best ever. Said I had a range of about 300 miles still but I’d never get near that. Don’t do motorway miles, and tend to drive like I’m being chased 🤣
:grin:
Just filled up today, good mix of driving, averaged 37mpg for the tank, 370 miles.
I just got back from Scotland in the TCR - about 400 miles with 41.2MPG. Think it's the best MPG I can recall getting.
There were a few fun runs where it might have been a little lower than that.... :evil:
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Has anyone driven Clubsport and/or a TCR and an R. I am asking for comparison purposes? I am desperate for a MK7.5 R, but unsure whether to try a TCR or MK7 Clubsport (Thats if there are any CS for sale).
I love point and shoot cars like the R, but was wondering whether or not there is more character with a Clubsport or TCR as I would prioritise fun and character over crazy 0-60s.
As I said earlier, I've just done a lot of driving in the TCR and it's hard to think of a car which offers such versatility. I did seven hours behind the wheel on every type of road, surface and condition. I was tired but not beaten up which has been the case in other cars i've driven over equivalent periods and distances. Sure, it doesn't have 4Motion so 0-60 isn't the same as an R but that doesn't detract from it one bit. When faced with the choice, I didn't even consider the R.
Depends what you call character - assume handling characteristics versus styling and aesthetics. I've always found the R to be a bit sterile which is why I have always stayed with a GTI. Think TCR is a more interesting car personally and with a smaller production run, offers decent residuals too.
Both are great cars - I think there is a marginal level of 'refinement' on the 7.5 (the tail lights, infotainment for example) and you're more likely to find an example with lower mileage.
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I'd like to see something with the 7.5 body shell. Custom BBS wheels, go to town on the suspension and steering feel to optimise handling. Maybe give it a little more power. Play with the ratios, add a short shift to the gearbox. Wishful thinking but you did ask! :laugh:
I like your thinking there, wishful indeed though!
It’s interesting that you mention how Porsche stage manage who and how customers are allowed to buy their cars. It’s something clubsport has touched on before too. An enviable position for a manufacturer to be in.
There are vast forum topics devoted to the treatment of enthusiasts versus those that spend the most to access GT products that are in limited supply. What's more valuable to Porsche, the person who spends more or one that spends less but supports the brand? Porsche seem to have taken the view that it's the former and that the latter will grumble but stay loyal as long as they continue to create desirable cars.
I don't object to someone getting access if they spend more, that's just business but at the same time, dealers need to recognise that they create a walled garden and in fairness, they do try and share allocations across their biggest customers. You don't get everything, you get to choose. What burns most people is the fact that someone will access a premium product, sell it back to the dealer at market value (say £100k over list) and the dealer then advertises that car as second hand stock with marginally above delivery miles thus getting a second bite of the cherry.
It's even worse for limited, numbered cars which attract collectors. It has largely come about since cars have become an asset class and I suspect it's going to get worse when Porsche goes to IPO. IMHO, it's the only reason that Ferrari made the Purosangue SUV.
TCR was the perfect swansong. It’s like everything VW learned about the mk7’s and everything they wanted to hone ready for the mk8 Clubsport was put into that model. For me it was the most aesthetically pleasing of all the mk7 generation along with the best GTI engine tune with the full fat 290 PS permanently available.
Just a shame it was DSG only.
I agree that it's a shame it was DSG only but they were trying to create a link to the race car I suspect and simplify production. I'd like it to have the feel of the Clubsport S - steering is quite numb in comparison. I do wonder about merging the best bits of both into one car but divorces are expensive... :laugh:
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I'd like it to have the feel of the Clubsport S - steering is quite numb in comparison. I do wonder about merging the best bits of both into one car but divorces are expensive... :laugh:
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I'd like it to have the feel of the Clubsport S - steering is quite numb in comparison. I do wonder about merging the best bits of both into one car but divorces are expensive... :laugh:
AGB, changing to the CSS hubs for additional camber and swapping the rear front control arm bushes for the CSS one will significantly improve steering feel, turn in and grip. I’ve done this to my ED40 and love the result.
Interesting Paul, worth keeping in mind. For me the TCR is a great compromise. I would've liked a manual option too but there's not. However overall it's excellent and I'd thoroughly recommend one. I've been busy in mine this week, a return 280 mile trip that averaged over 46mpg and today, a 300+ mile trip. An brilliant car to do distances in.
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I'd like it to have the feel of the Clubsport S - steering is quite numb in comparison. I do wonder about merging the best bits of both into one car but divorces are expensive... :laugh:
AGB, changing to the CSS hubs for additional camber and swapping the rear front control arm bushes for the CSS one will significantly improve steering feel, turn in and grip. I’ve done this to my ED40 and love the result.
Thanks for the advice. You know, I hadn't really thought about modifying the car as it is my wife's car but you've gone and seeded an idea. It's her birthday tomorrow as well. :laugh:
I'll have to look into what my options are - I know there can be issues with hub carriers and bearings and things like that with these type of changes but I wouldn't expect them to exist between a minor model update.
Can I ask what the cost in parts was if you don't mind?
Out of interest, what tyres are you running on the ED40? I'm running P Zeros which came with the Reifnitz and will swap to winter wheels which are PS4. I don't know if it's just me but the P Zeros feel quite loud on motorway.
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I don't know if it's just me but the P Zeros feel quite loud on motorway.
Fitting the harmonic damper on the rear subframe made my car quieter. Just swapped from P-Zeros to PS4S which hasn't made much difference in motorway noise.
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I don't know if it's just me but the P Zeros feel quite loud on motorway.
Fitting the harmonic damper on the rear subframe made my car quieter. Just swapped from P-Zeros to PS4S which hasn't made much difference in motorway noise.
You just reminded me that I had it on a MK7 GTD which I fitted thanks to the advice of this forum and then forgot to take it off when I sold it. It certainly made a difference on the GTD. That's a really good shout.
VW parts going to be getting a long shopping list from me on Tuesday when they're open!
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I'd like it to have the feel of the Clubsport S - steering is quite numb in comparison. I do wonder about merging the best bits of both into one car but divorces are expensive... :laugh:
Thanks for the advice. You know, I hadn't really thought about modifying the car as it is my wife's car but you've gone and seeded an idea. It's her birthday tomorrow as well. :laugh:
I'll have to look into what my options are - I know there can be issues with hub carriers and bearings and things like that with these type of changes but I wouldn't expect them to exist between a minor model update.
Can I ask what the cost in parts was if you don't mind?
Out of interest, what tyres are you running on the ED40? I'm running P Zeros which came with the Reifnitz and will swap to winter wheels which are PS4. I don't know if it's just me but the P Zeros feel quite loud on motorway.
te. .
Running PS4S tyres on Belvedere alloys.