GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Meister on 17 July 2022, 19:18
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I have had my 2018 mk7.5 gti for nearly 3 years now and used to only keep my cars for 18 months. Whilst I ADORE my current car, I normally have a plan of action for my next car...
However, looking at options, I cannot fathom what on earth I will do next. I would ordinarily get a newer GTI, but here is my thinking;
- Mk 8 gti - ugly (in my opinion), awful interior - immediately ruled out
- Mk 7.5 gti tcr - currently my top option, but this will be my third mk7.5 gti and could be a bit samey (although brilliant!)
- Audi tt - don't really like audis, but tt looks good, particularly TTS. However, crazily expensive - ruled out
- Mercedes - UGLY UGLY UGLY, won't entertain at any cost. Overly expensive too.
- Skoda - Although good, it is a step down
- Seat /Cupra - See Skoda
- BMW - UGLY AS SIN and never liked them anyway. Overly expensive too.
- Porsche - love Caymans, but crazyyyy expensive! Would get a lot less and older compared to current 7.5 gti.
I am left with absolutely nowhere to go and am genuinely intrigued what people are buying next and indeed what experiences and comparisons are compared to previous 7.5 ownership.
What are you buying!? :)
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The TCR is great, very different in many details, the engine is superb yet of course has the same great basics. Find one and get a good test drive.
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I had the same issue, sold our 7.5 in June 21 due to the silly offers we were getting, bought a run about and finally decided what to order in Nov 21, with many of the same concerns you have...
Was torn between a MK8 Clubsport GTI (may have been the 45 can't remember) and an S3....
Test drove a GTI on the Fri and went to Audi on Sat to test the S3, long story but couldnt take there demo out so ended up taking there RS3 out !!!!
They played that hand well, just a shame we our still waiting for a confirmed build date 8 months down the line for a car we never set out to buy LOL
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No plans to swap at the moment even though I've kept the current car far longer than originally intended.
If I were to swap I'd probably go and look at a Cupra Born / Leon / Formentor, before probably ending up with another Golf.
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The TCR is great, very different in many details, the engine is superb yet of course has the same great basics. Find one and get a good test drive.
Thanks for this. Probably will end up with a TCR and plan to test drive soon. Seems ludicrous putting over £10,000 additional money into a car that is barely a year newer than mine though and although better in many ways, broadly exactly the same! :)
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I had the same issue, sold our 7.5 in June 21 due to the silly offers we were getting, bought a run about and finally decided what to order in Nov 21, with many of the same concerns you have...
Was torn between a MK8 Clubsport GTI (may have been the 45 can't remember) and an S3....
Test drove a GTI on the Fri and went to Audi on Sat to test the S3, long story but couldnt take there demo out so ended up taking there RS3 out !!!!
They played that hand well, just a shame we our still waiting for a confirmed build date 8 months down the line for a car we never set out to buy LOL
Yes never ever had this issue before! There appears to be literally nothing that I would want! And that is for any money really. Most new cars seem to have worse styling and quality than predecessors. RS3 clearly are great cars, but really not convinced with the styling, especially all that weird black plastic on front and rear bumpers. Crazy crazy money too for some reason - could buy three good 7.5 gtis for the same money, and still have change!
Also, re: the mk8 GTI, interested to hear your opinions when you viewed and test drove... I sat in one in a showroom and was actually disgusted at the sheer poor quality of the interior, lack of things present on the 7.5 and gawky exterior (all my opinion of course haha).
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The TCR is great, very different in many details, the engine is superb yet of course has the same great basics. Find one and get a good test drive.
Thanks for this. Probably will end up with a TCR and plan to test drive soon. Seems ludicrous putting over £10,000 additional money into a car that is barely a year newer than mine though and although better in many ways, broadly exactly the same! :)
Admittedly when I changed there was 4 years difference in age but even so, putting £17k into what was basically the same kind of car for a tight ar$e like me was a big decision. The only thing I miss is the manual box. Otherwise, the TCR is a very different car. The seat material is better, the exterior styling is more dramatic without being too extreme, the exhaust note is perfect, deep without being excessive. The engine is a masterpiece, it pulls then pulls more then really goes for it. That was what got me out of the PP, the lack of puff at the top even though going there is not that often but when you are going for it, the IS20 turbo just doesn't do it.
If you do look at a TCR, a basic one will do all that is needed, I'm not convinced by DCC so that is not essential. Likewise the performance versions, apart from the wheels and DCC, you get 5mm lower suspension and an unlimited top speed but 155mph is enough..
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I had similar views to you. Reassuring for me. I looked at a Mk8 GTI and didn’t like it. I had looked at and was seriously considering an A3, an S3 or a 128ti / 135. Three weeks later I went back to VW, looked at a GTI and bought it. Four weeks on and I am content with my decision. The interior is different but I have adjusted and I have grasped enough of its functions that I can do what I need to do. The handling is very sure footed and the looks have grown on me. Keep the faith!
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The TCR is great, very different in many details, the engine is superb yet of course has the same great basics. Find one and get a good test drive.
Thanks for this. Probably will end up with a TCR and plan to test drive soon. Seems ludicrous putting over £10,000 additional money into a car that is barely a year newer than mine though and although better in many ways, broadly exactly the same! :)
Admittedly when I changed there was 4 years difference in age but even so, putting £17k into what was basically the same kind of car for a tight ar$e like me was a big decision. The only thing I miss is the manual box. Otherwise, the TCR is a very different car. The seat material is better, the exterior styling is more dramatic without being too extreme, the exhaust note is perfect, deep without being excessive. The engine is a masterpiece, it pulls then pulls more then really goes for it. That was what got me out of the PP, the lack of puff at the top even though going there is not that often but when you are going for it, the IS20 turbo just doesn't do it.
If you do look at a TCR, a basic one will do all that is needed, I'm not convinced by DCC so that is not essential. Likewise the performance versions, apart from the wheels and DCC, you get 5mm lower suspension and an unlimited top speed but 155mph is enough..
Thank you! All very useful information and I think it boils down to driving one. However good the TCR is though, I simply cannot fathom putting over 10k to a car that is between 6 months and a year newer! My GTI is not a PP, instead the 230bhp version, but I am fully content with this power output and adore the handling and manual gearbox.
Again, I think I am going to have to wait and keep mine another year or two to see how the prices are on the TCR, with hopefully a smaller differential to change.
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I had similar views to you. Reassuring for me. I looked at a Mk8 GTI and didn’t like it. I had looked at and was seriously considering an A3, an S3 or a 128ti / 135. Three weeks later I went back to VW, looked at a GTI and bought it. Four weeks on and I am content with my decision. The interior is different but I have adjusted and I have grasped enough of its functions that I can do what I need to do. The handling is very sure footed and the looks have grown on me. Keep the faith!
Thanks for this and I really do want to keep with VW, as they are the only car brand I identify with to be honest. Although I just cannot agree with the cost cutting and interior on the MK8. The interior, comfort, quality and ergonomics are the very best features of my mk7.5, and I feel they are now the absolute worst unfortunately. Very interested to hear your view on differences from an ownership perspective though, as I really do want to like it! :)
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Why change it if you love it and can’t find a better car for your use?
Swap it if you need something different or fancy something different.
Otherwise, keep it.
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If I were to swap I'd probably go and look at a … [insert all sorts of different things] before probably ending up with another Golf.
That, in a nutshell, sums up my entire adult life.
Right. Down to business.
The 7.5 GTI (especially the Performance model) is pretty much the perfect GTI.
But for many decades the standard GTI was a hugely competent base for enthusiasts to add a little more to.
It’s easy to modify the GTI, it always has been, but it’s nice when the factory builds cars that have that extra bit of power, style and even handling fully warranted as a different model in the lineup.
The TCR was the epitome of that in the mk7. Yes, the Ed40 was a bit more special in that unfathomable enthusiast hierarchy but the TCR was actually a better, brawnier car. Been there and owned both. The Ed40 steals the emotion, the TCR does everything else a little better. (Disclaimer: if I did trackdays or car shows the Ed40 Clubsport would possibly get my vote in manual transmission form)
Would I pay £10k more for a TCR over and above my perfectly good 7.5 GTI? Hell no.
I’d go for either option 1: Lightly modify my 7.5 GTI. (add TCR brakes, TCR splitter and skirts, Oettinger diffuser, stage 1 remap, possibly change the wheels)
Or option 2: Find a low mileage, fairly sensibly priced mk8 Clubsport.
Bear with me, you might think you hate the mk8 but you won’t. Been there and done it.
Why the Clubsport? Personal opinion from a 30 odd year veteran of Golf GTI’s but I think it’s the best mk8 which admittedly isn’t saying much.
The mk8 standard GTI isn’t a looker unless it’s wearing Adelaides and won’t add anything to the driving experience above a standard 7.5 GTI. You’d just focus on the interior and feel short changed until you got used to it and realised it’s not that bad at all.
The R is too spec sensitive and you need to spend a LOT of extra ££££€€€€ to make it what it needs to be.
Minus the Performance pack the front bumper and side skirts look too bulbous and the styling looks all out of balance. Inside it doesn’t look like a near £50k car at that point so you need another £2k plus on leather…
When the R 20 year edition (godawful long winded name) was announced rececely I figured, assuming the spec is the same as in the promo bumph, that it would likely cost me £20k on top of my 18 month old Clubsport to get behind the wheel. I know the world has gone mad in so many ways but seriously, for that I’d want at least an Audi or Merc badge and 400bhp under the bonnet.
That leaves the Clubsport. To my eyes it’s the best looking mk8 (R-Line arguably runs it close) by a margin, but that’s just the start of it. It just drives so well. The power delivery is bang on for road use, the brakes are superb and the handling is sublime (ok, it’s fairly heavy and moves about a bit on its springs but that doesn’t detract, just part of the character) yet in can be so docile and tractable with reasonable comfort when you’re just pootling along behind Doris in her i10.
Doris will help you get 40mpg too.
I’ve always said the TCR was the beta model for the mk8 Clubsport and it still feels that way. The 8CS just feeling that bit sharper. Not a lot in it mind.
Would I pay £xxxx to change from a TCR to an 8CS? Absolutely not. The TCR feels like a ‘special’ car where the 8CS feels like the car a normal old skool GTI enthusiast would have built themselves starting with a base GTI. An honest basic GTI honed to drive significantly sharper without looking too showy. So in fact pretty true to the Clubsport ethos minus any weight saving bits (which the Ed40 also lacked).
Inside, it’s actually nice when you get used to it. Yes, the door handles look cheap but they wear well and the rest of it really grows on you. Personally I don’t spend ages looking at interior door handles when on the move. The steering wheel is lovely to use and there is no clutter, just functional minimalism.
The Ed40 owners slate the 8CS for not being special enough and I’ll grant them that. But there’s more to GTI’s than limited edition bits of trim. The 8CS is a GTI for traditional GTI lovers in its simplest format.
It’s a grower.
I’ll discount the Ed45 for this thread due to the sheer expense to move from a 7.5 GTI to the Ed45. Special Edition GTI enthusiasts are a seperate sub-breed! 😁
If you hate BMW’s then you’ll never miss the fact the 1 series (F40) is a better stab at building a Golf than VW currently muster. They’re seriously good and utterly solid build wise. It seems like instead of looking at the mk7 Golf to base their FWD 1 series on they just copied the dimensions and then got a mk2 Golf to base the interior solidity on.
BMW specialise in making big cars and you can tell by the sheer quality of the interior of the 1er plus all the body reinforcing struts.
Mercedes specialise in big cars too but unfortunately used Renault as their basis for small hatches. Oops.
Still, doesn’t seem to do their sales any harm.
In conclusion, the mk8 isn’t as bad as you think by any means but go for option 1 and keep the 7.5.
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Interesting exposition Exonian. Not had this level of experience with cars you mention but given my ownership of the 7.5pp think your conclusion is probably the one Meister should seriously think about.
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My previous car was a BMW 330d Coupe.
My next car after the Golf is likely to be a newer 3.0 diesel BMW, like a 330d, 430d Gran coupe or 535d.
I like the Golf, but I want to go back to rear wheel drive, and I actually prefer that diesel engine to the 4 pot petrol in the Golf.
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I have had my 2018 mk7.5 gti for nearly 3 years now and used to only keep my cars for 18 months. Whilst I ADORE my current car, I normally have a plan of action for my next car...
However, looking at options, I cannot fathom what on earth I will do next. I would ordinarily get a newer GTI, but here is my thinking;
- Mk 8 gti - ugly (in my opinion), awful interior - immediately ruled out
- Mk 7.5 gti tcr - currently my top option, but this will be my third mk7.5 gti and could be a bit samey (although brilliant!)
- Audi tt - don't really like audis, but tt looks good, particularly TTS. However, crazily expensive - ruled out
- Mercedes - UGLY UGLY UGLY, won't entertain at any cost. Overly expensive too.
- Skoda - Although good, it is a step down
- Seat /Cupra - See Skoda
- BMW - UGLY AS SIN and never liked them anyway. Overly expensive too.
- Porsche - love Caymans, but crazyyyy expensive! Would get a lot less and older compared to current 7.5 gti.
I am left with absolutely nowhere to go and am genuinely intrigued what people are buying next and indeed what experiences and comparisons are compared to previous 7.5 ownership.
What are you buying!? :)
My last 4 cars, all company lease, Audi Quattro > GTD > Golf R > TCR (present)
Was going to keep the TCR, absolutely love it, the completed evolution of the MK 7x series with the 7.5 uplifts, and with R type pace and braking while being a little lighter on its toes.
However, current inflated second hand prices and 2 x daughters weddings in next 2 years means the TCR has to be returned and new lease ordered. So what car?
Not really sold on the MK 8 due to interior, and maybe guilty of suffering some Golf fatigue to look at another, but would have considered the Clubsport, but with options that would have wanted on it (and not all), it easily broke £42,000
See that you really dislike the BMW F40 and some here test drove them when came out, and were not that enamored either, but decided to look really closely at the BMW 128Ti given its many excellent reviews, and obvious punt at being a GTI rival and was really really impressed.
The interior is simply a nice place to be, with excellent, easily manipulated tech. The trim, ambient lighting etc, all add to that luster.
Managed 2 x drives, albeit 30 minute ones, but it felt livelier than my TCR, with emphasis on 'felt' as imagine on timings its a shade off, but it makes some nice noises when in sport even if amplified, and was basically, responsive and lively and the ride again felt similar to the TCR in Sport, which is setting that predominantly use
Know some on here, did not like the F40 ride, but from all understand the 128Ti has been worked on quite a bit with different set ups and bracing, that it has its own unique characteristics,
Personally think it looks ok too, not in a blown away, way, but genuinely like and hopefully a grower, and have selected the signature of white and with the standard unique 18" with performance tyres
The real kicker is this though, most of the options that would choose are standard, only added £1000 worth of options, with just parking assist, and privacy glass being the real musts and so overall cost for lease was £35150, £3500 less that TCR cost 3 years ago, and about £7000 less than the Golf Clubsport that would have wanted.
This will be my first BMW, always been VAG and though have feel done good diligence its not any replacement for living with, though can only compare to MK 7.5 will see how it stacks up over next year from when receive (supposedly October)
As said wanted to keep my TCR, and have even looked at MK 6 ED35 so having something a little different, even if not new, and has some age is no problem to me, but as forced to, do feel that in the 128Ti will be getting something more modern? and at least comparable to performance enjoy, and with quite a bit of cabin uplift experience from last 9 years which as good as the MK 7x golfs were, they were a drop on the previous 8P chassis Audis had prior.
So, looking forward to the change to BMW, be interesting to see actually how feel when living with as a daily, opposed to how think will feel from thoughts here,
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Keep what you've got.
Nice read Exonian! It's like you've been waiting all your life just for this question to come up. Can't argue with a single point you've put up, very well written Sir.
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My previous car was a BMW 330d Coupe.
My next car after the Golf is likely to be a newer 3.0 diesel BMW, like a 330d, 430d Gran coupe or 535d.
I like the Golf, but I want to go back to rear wheel drive, and I actually prefer that diesel engine to the 4 pot petrol in the Golf.
We’ve seen that an awful lot on this forum over the years symonh, once people are used to big BMW’s they tend to go back to them. When something is right for you it kind of gets under your skin and there’s no escaping it.
Those 6 cyl Diesels are mighty engines and BMW seem to have got the whole packaging just right for their segment.
Keep what you've got.
Nice read Exonian! It's like you've been waiting all your life just for this question to come up. Can't argue with a single point you've put up, very well written Sir.
:grin:
I’d been poised for that moment in time :laugh:
I’ve probably written similar things a few times here, just my opinion from a lot of experience with the Golf models, so a personally very expensive opinion!!
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I had the same issue, sold our 7.5 in June 21 due to the silly offers we were getting, bought a run about and finally decided what to order in Nov 21, with many of the same concerns you have...
Was torn between a MK8 Clubsport GTI (may have been the 45 can't remember) and an S3....
Test drove a GTI on the Fri and went to Audi on Sat to test the S3, long story but couldnt take there demo out so ended up taking there RS3 out !!!!
They played that hand well, just a shame we our still waiting for a confirmed build date 8 months down the line for a car we never set out to buy LOL
Yes never ever had this issue before! There appears to be literally nothing that I would want! And that is for any money really. Most new cars seem to have worse styling and quality than predecessors. RS3 clearly are great cars, but really not convinced with the styling, especially all that weird black plastic on front and rear bumpers. Crazy crazy money too for some reason - could buy three good 7.5 gtis for the same money, and still have change!
Also, re: the mk8 GTI, interested to hear your opinions when you viewed and test drove... I sat in one in a showroom and was actually disgusted at the sheer poor quality of the interior, lack of things present on the 7.5 and gawky exterior (all my opinion of course haha).
The RS3 is craxy money now but we ordered before the 6% Dec increase and the 2% March increase with another due next month, I assume VW will be increasing their prices too in Aug?
I won't go into why we plumped for this car on a VW forum LOL
As for the MK8 Golf, the looks have grown on me since launch, always had 3 dr GTI's and R's and was adament I'd never have a 5 door 8, as mentioned in another reply the clubsport is the only option due to the better looks. The car drove really well, did about 30 miles, was apprehensive of the touch pad tech, but in reality once the volume was set and the temp I never touched it again. The dash part with the LED screens does look really cheap, and id imagine the facelift will echo the higher quality design of the A class. It drove better than my MK7.5 and was noticably faster, i'd say as quick as it should have been in basic form. Had it not been for the love of the RS3's flared arches and speed, id have ordered the clubsport over the S3.
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There's a common theme emerging of there's nothing really worth moving onto from a 7.5 gti / tcr unless it's got more cylinders.
Given there's been a Hyundai Ioniq N announced I'd temporarily hold off on moving, as better real world electric cars are starting to come out, unless you get a lotto win then go buy a Porsche.
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I had a Mk2 GTi back in 1987 in poverty spec, but it was a wonderful car - apart from the steel wheels. I foolishly traded it in for a brand new Renault 5 GT turbo. A wonderfully fun car, but I won't go into the rattles, cheap plastics and snapped clutch cables. My return to VW was in 2009 with a Mk6 GTD which i passed to my wife's daughter 4 years later - a fabulous car, as was my Mk7 GTD. The pinnacle of my VW motoring was the Mk7.5 R which I had from 2017 until March this year. I can honestly say that it did everything I could want and even after 5 years I still looked back it when I parked up. Sorry for the lengthy preamble, but my point is that as perfect as it was I felt a hankering to change and another VW was my original go to brand. Unfortunately, like many here, I just couldn't get on with the exterior or interior looks and the quality of the materials seemed to fall well short of my previous golfs.
The S3 was definitely a contender with a price between the Gti and the R. It was well equipped and the interior, to my mind, was much better quality than that of the Mk8 (albeit a step down from the 8v model). It was then that I decided to push the boat out and get the RS3 carbon black saloon and I don't regret it at all. I ordered in August 2021 and took delivery in March this year. The stupidly high price was offset by the stupidly high price I got for my 5 year old R. It's further helped by the amount I could sell it for now (yes I know the bubble will burst, but constant Audi price hikes will lessen depreciation - unless I change cars again. The RS3 is worth every penny i paid, for the engine sound alone - you soon forget that the dash is pretty much that in a standard A3 or A1.
My main point is that as much as we love our cars, we still want, rather than need change. We all have different ideas as to what constitutes a good looking car and we just have to ensure we maintain a proper balance between head and heart. The choice of cars is now infinite, unfortunately the prices are as well. Good luck with the decision making!
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There's a common theme emerging of there's nothing really worth moving onto from a 7.5 gti / tcr unless it's got more cylinders.
Given there's been a Hyundai Ioniq N announced I'd temporarily hold off on moving, as better real world electric cars are starting to come out, unless you get a lotto win then go buy a Porsche.
With the exception of the bit about the Ioniq N, this post pretty much sums up my situation right now.
Would love something that made a better noise, but running costs too high right now.
Would be happy to go electric, but tech is moving fast and prices are expensive.
911 is a dream car
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You ask the question, what are you buying?......
Right now nothing seems comparable, I am happy enough with the ED40, in that newer cars have features I don't need such as SOS & Lane assist etc....
The Golf is the sensible car and have had 911's for almost 30 years, although I have only driven the Pork this month, if I had the have one car, the GTI for it's overall talents & practicality would be the one!
If you have a good example of a mk 7 /7.5 you are happy with, it's a great car to hang on to, for now? :)
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You ask the question, what are you buying?......
Right now nothing seems comparable, I am happy enough with the ED40, in that newer cars have features I don't need such as SOS & Lane assist etc....
The Golf is the sensible car and have had 911's for almost 30 years, although I have only driven the Pork this month, if I had the have one car, the GTI for it's overall talents & practicality would be the one!
If you have a good example of a mk 7 /7.5 you are happy with, it's a great car to hang on to, for now? :)
That's me. MK7 PP. I have my preferred amount of doors, DSG in Red. Had the ECU and TCU REVO'd and I'm very happy. My Nephew has the new GTI. I like it a lot but it's not for me. Guess it's an age thing.
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I also feel exactly the same as many in this thread have already said my previous car was a mk6 GTI 5 door tornado red DSG with some nice options.
Covered 62k in in it only issue i had was new inlet manifold under warranty, did everything well,, I loved the car.
Looked at many other cars to swop it for but none ticked all the boxes as well as my GTI.
When I test drove a mk7.5 GTI performance
I ordered one Issac blue, DSG, Brescia's 90% tints rear camera. dynamic chassis.
Delivery was march 18 still own it today now on 70k FSH main dealer and extended VW all component cover warranty from new. Only 2 issues have been new radius arms and thermostat housing both covered under warranty.
I now am in same situation love the car but nothing really seems worth the extra money to swop it for frustrating as mk8's just don't look anywhere near as good inside or out.
TCR not worth the extra cash not that much better car than I have.
Sad to see that most new investment is in electric cars now the mk8 is not great for what will be the last ever GTI :sad:
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I'm sorry and don't take this the wrong way but a TCR is a much better car and is worth the extra. Just looking at a Pure Grey on Belvederes you can see it's different and a bit special. 7.5 Performance is still a great by the way.
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I'm sorry and don't take this the wrong way but a TCR is a much better car and is worth the extra. Just looking at a Pure Grey on Belvederes you can see it's different and a bit special. 7.5 Performance is still a great by the way.
I don't disagree but can't really see how they are worth the massive 6-10k extra over a 7.5 pp
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I'm sorry and don't take this the wrong way but a TCR is a much better car and is worth the extra. Just looking at a Pure Grey on Belvederes you can see it's different and a bit special. 7.5 Performance is still a great by the way.
I don't disagree but can't really see how they are worth the massive 6-10k extra over a 7.5 pp
have you driven a TCR?
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I cannot help myself, I keep looking at other cars even though I have only had the current one for 4 months.
Today I have been looking at BMW M140i's and Alfa Giulias
I cannot justify a change right now, the amount I would lose on the Golf Vs the amount of use that I have had ratio isn't favourable at the moment.
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If you currently drive a 7 - 7.5 GTi, Dsg a TCR may well be a halo car for you, (less so if you drive a manual gearbox!) :)
Yes a TCR may cost more to purchase, but you are likely to retain that delta over time as implied desirability of a TCR helps counter the depreciation. You may even find it appreciates slightly, although we may have seen some of that?
You also need to consider not all TCR are equal. some specs are more desirable than others, although dealer trade in quotes may not reflect this, buyers are willing to pay up for the right extras on a rare variant.
You need to take the price difference into consideration, I bought my Ed40 CS nearly 3 years ago and found a car 3 years newer, better equipped with a quarter of the mileage for a price difference I was happy with, having studied price and spec data on various spreadsheets since the Ed40 was announced.
Maybe this is just how I look at it having spent far too long trading financial bond spreads? :)
One observation I can make is that 3 years on the cost to change to the same car would appear to be quite a bit more than I paid, which can be explained by the general increase in newish second hand cars and in part by the desirability of rarer variants?
I am enthusiastic about my car and prefer to buy privately while the car is still under warranty, this gives me an insight to how the car has been used, which you may not find buying a car from a car supermarket?
Price isn't everything, it's better to have a car you know the history of and are happy with, buying a secondhand car is not without risk or buyer remorse!
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If you currently drive a 7 - 7.5 GTi, Dsg a TCR may well be a halo car for you, (less so if you drive a manual gearbox!) :)
Yes a TCR may cost more to purchase, but you are likely to retain that delta over time as implied desirability of a TCR helps counter the depreciation. You may even find it appreciates slightly, although we may have seen some of that?
You also need to consider not all TCR are equal. some specs are more desirable than others, although dealer trade in quotes may not reflect this, buyers are willing to pay up for the right extras on a rare variant.
You need to take the price difference into consideration, I bought my Ed40 CS nearly 3 years ago and found a car 3 years newer, better equipped with a quarter of the mileage for a price difference I was happy with, having studied price and spec data on various spreadsheets since the Ed40 was announced.
Maybe this is just how I look at it having spent far too long trading financial bond spreads? :)
One observation I can make is that 3 years on the cost to change to the same car would appear to be quite a bit more than I paid, which can be explained by the general increase in newish second hand cars and in part by the desirability of rarer variants?
I am enthusiastic about my car and prefer to buy privately while the car is still under warranty, this gives me an insight to how the car has been used, which you may not find buying a car from a car supermarket?
Price isn't everything, it's better to have a car you know the history of and are happy with, buying a secondhand car is not without risk or buyer remorse!
Yes I agree that the TCR might be better, but a 69 registered TCR compared to my 68 reg GTI (230ps - manual) would be £10,000 to £12,000 more. Regardless of whether it might hold better future value, I cannot see why it commands such a premium. Also, I have an aversion to any car that isn't manual, so feel that would be a deal-breaker for me anyway.
I am very happy to keep my 7.5 gti for a couple more years, but I simply see nothing on the market (for any price actually) that matches the 7.5 (interior, quality of ergonomics including dig dash, handling, looks, fuel economy, comfort, useability, under the radar-ness, class, residuals (I could go on). Even cars at 40-40k don't seem to match up to the 7.5, which seems bizarre to me.
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BMW 330-340d or i, touring (or saloon if you're that way inclined), the only car that beats the golf on everything imo, except for easy parking and price. My GTI is nearly fully loaded and the mid-range m-sport G-series bmw's makes mine look dated, and with a selection of 6 cylinders that get great mpg it's a great move.
Not everyone wants a BMW of course but Mercedes are woeful and Audi are underpowered unless you go for an S4 or above which are rocketships.
I really like the TCR's but they don't have a 10-12k premium over a GTI pp, £2-4k maximum because how often will you be using that extra 45bhp? 1%? Maybe 3% of the time?
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I have an aversion to any car that isn't manual, so feel that would be a deal-breaker for me anyway.
If you feel that strongly then why did you start this thread saying that a TCR was your top option? Given the above, it shouldn't have even featured? :rolleyes:
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I have an aversion to any car that isn't manual, so feel that would be a deal-breaker for me anyway.
If you feel that strongly then why did you start this thread saying that a TCR was your top option? Given the above, it shouldn't have even featured? :rolleyes:
The TCR isn't the top option, it is the only option. In fact there aren't really any options! The thread is completely valid and has prompted some great discussion. The TCR is the least flawed option, but is highly flawed given the price difference! (As is everything haha).
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It has been a great thread which I’ve followed with interest.
Are there no good cars out there to replace the ageing mk7 golfs, or were they just too good for the money (when people make these judgements, price has to be a factor)?
I had 2 Bmws before my golf, both 6 cylinder, both rear wheel drive, both far more expensive than the golf and less enjoyable to drive. I wouldn’t go back to them.
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I remember when the Mk8 first came out, it was almost universally disliked in varying degrees on here.
Yet somehow we have a very active Mk8 forum, with some former Mk7 / Mk7.5 drivers moving across.
I suppose what I'm saying, don't rule the Mk8 out purely on the basis of how it looks. Go and have a try, you might just surprise yourself.
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^ my thoughts exactly
Perfectly good looking car, does everything the brilliant mk7 did, and you can set the user interface up and forget about it.
The only important user interface is steering, gearstick and 3 pedals.
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I remember when the Mk8 first came out, it was almost universally disliked in varying degrees on here.
Yet somehow we have a very active Mk8 forum, with some former Mk7 / Mk7.5 drivers moving across.
I suppose what I'm saying, don't rule the Mk8 out purely on the basis of how it looks. Go and have a try, you might just surprise yourself.
I agree with this. I moved from a 7.5 to the Mk8 recently. I felt cars had evolved and perhaps foolishly, I felt like I was being left behind. I wanted the new gen tech. I don’t regret it. Until recently I did not like the look of the Mk 8 and to some extent I was influenced by the motoring press and YouTubers. The reviews on YouTube struck me as generally very negative. I had not automatically decided to buy a Mk 8. I had seriously considered an A3, S3 and 128ti / 135. I found TR Hamza’s Mk 8 review was more positive and I went and looked at an Atlantic blue car but I left feeling underwhelmed. However, having looked at some of the car models I considered, after 3 weeks I went back and looked at another Mk 8. I posted on this forum, took advice from the sages and after driving it, unaccompanied, I subsequently bought it. I thought the value in buying a Mk 8 compared to other marques was favourable. You know when you have found the car you want, remaining objective, listening to both heart and head.
I do miss some features of the 7.5 that are no longer fitted, as per my post on the Mk 8 section, ‘And it’s gone’. However, I have now lived with the car for around a month. I find the handling is exceptional, forgiving but accurate. On my 7.5 I changed 19” Santiagos to 18” Richmonds as I found the ride too harsh. My Mk 8 has 19” Adelaides which I assumed I would need to change too. I am not sure I will need to. Neither car was fitted with DCC. There are also lots of familiar traits between the two marks. There is an inherited feel that has passed between them. I have adapted to the absence of buttons, the screens and menus. I have learned how to operate most necessary functions and now quite like the interface which has gone from being confusing and frustrating to being logical and accommodating. Volkswizard has a couple of great videos on the Mk 8 software that helped me to adapt, particularly how to turn off the lane assist with a push of the button on the indicator stalk followed by pushing the OK button. Thankfully, I can now switch it off in a second. The car now feels familiar and its VW roots are apparent and reassuring. The strange, new, ‘dull’ pattern of the upholstery, compared to the 7.5, has even grown on me.
As Guzzle has commented, don’t accept the perception of others. I have found the car is still a great all rounder and I believe its performance, like for like, is as good if not better than its predecessor. I am once again enjoying owning the car and it’s familiar ambience and function. I have owned Mk 6, 7, 7.5 and now Mk 8 Golfs so I am very familiar with their feel through the years. Yes, it’s different to my Mk 7.5 which I really liked and I wish it had retained some of its features and kit, such as the illuminated sills and storage cubbies but the Mk 8 still generates that GTI feeling of contentment. I think it is a sharp looking car, particularly in my choice of moonstone which I think shows the lines of the car very well. I am glad I changed to the Mk 8 and I have added aluminium sill inserts to improve its quality feel and carried out other other small tweaks that I had made to the 7.5 that reinforce the continuity between the two. If it looks like a GTI, drives like a GTI and sounds like a (heavily filtered) GTI; it is a GTI. In some aspects the progression of the Mk 8 is evident. I accept others may have a different opinion. The smile on my face, which my family comment is often absent, is back on my face every time I drive it. Isn’t that why we drive performance Golfs? :whistle:
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See there is lot of comments to the TCR and its worth over a standard MK 7.5 and given my intention was to buy at end of this 3 year lease, have to agree it is way overpriced for the actual car it is, taking it out of my affordability bracket given other demands.
Cannot comment MK 7.5 GTI to TCR but can comment MK 7 R to TCR and aside from some lift in tech the experience of being in a MK 7x cabin is exactly the same, and its only when you really start to drive the TCR do you appreciate the increased engagement, as its basically a little lighter on its toes but keeping the R pace. Cannot imagine a MK 7.5 GTI being much less of an experience.
Absolutely love the look of my TCR, Pure Grey, Reifnitz Alloy and Akrapovic exhausts (a MY20 freebie) but aside from the Akrapovic it is just different colour and alloys with some added gloss trim. So again, I get there is maybe some lift in what is being asked for over the standard MK 7.5 GTI as there is more BHP, R brakes, plus the exclusivity, but have seen them at price of this car when it was purchased 3 years ago and its too steep to justify.
Think some of my problem, is Golf fatigue, having spent 9 years in the same cabin pretty much, I am maybe not appreciating the TCR cabin experience as someone jumping into it for the first time, as I sat in a MK 6 GTI a few months ago and really really liked it, felt a quality place to be in, which must be down to it being a new experience.
I am extremely sad to be seeing my TCR go, someone is going to be getting a really well kept car once its been through auction and onto forecourts but the prices are exorbitant and unjustifiable, and even with the exclusiveness can see quite a drop in them in a couple of years when you think prices will settle as backlogs on new cars ease and forecourts get flooded with second hand options.
As previously mentioned, my move is to a BMW i28Ti which from limited test drives seemed to stack up well to experience seeking (GTI like) and the interior is for me a big leap above the TCR (which is no surprise really as designed in 2019 and now has the addition of the digital cockpit and previously option media system as standard)
Might return to the MK 7.5 GTI (maybe TCR) as second car in a few years, there is a lot out there and you would think when prices do settle, could be some good deals, but not now, at mid £30,000, its too much when consider the BMW i28Ti was £35150 new.
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For what it’s worth, I did a 300 mile round trip last weekend in my GTI with my close mate who has owned some amazing cars over the years (new Evo’s, Porsche 911’s, M3’s, R4’s) and he commented a GTI is all you really need.
Underlined my view on not changing. I do tiny miles now so car still feels new.
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I change my car at around 2 years but am now in year 4 of my GTI 245 and cannot see me changing in the foreseeable.
But, it’s always fun to dream “what if I HAD to change tomorrow”.
Believe it or not, I have always loved Alfas (it’s that badge!), and I have a guilty secret yearning for a nearly new Giulia 280 Veloce.
Makes a change from BMW, Audi and Merc.
But I wouldn’t buy a new one as I suspect the drop in value is quite savage.
It’s a bit left field which is why I am compulsively drawn.
But…..it’s just a daydream, I’m hanging on to what I’ve got. Arguably the most elegantly understated performance car on the road.
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After having a catch up read of the thread it’s good to see it’s still going strong several days later.
Loads of good insights from different angles all still pointing to how good a car the 7(.5) GTI still is and how good value they are for what you get as a package.
Wherever anyone stands from a personal viewpoint on a mk8 GTI/R there’s no denying how expensive a well specced new one has become compared to the deals going on 7.5’s a few short years ago before the world fell on its arse.
Now, being a peasant I know nothing about Porsches, but decided that as a well specced GTI or moderate R is knocking on £45k to £50k I’d have a look and see what a 718 is nowadays. I had in my mind around £60k starting price bearing in mind an RS3 is that sort of level and TT’s probably not far off.
I fired up the Porsche configurator and was surprised to see a 718 starts around £47k.
I don’t know what sort of power they have or what kit you get or how you’d fit grandma in the back or your 2.4 metre decking planks but it’s food for thought.
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Never looked as thought they were out of my price range. If the accessories list includes a roof rack for grandma I might be interested :wink:
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....Believe it or not, I have always loved Alfas (it’s that badge!), and I have a guilty secret yearning for a nearly new Giulia 280 Veloce.
My best mate purchased a 2y/o, 40,000km Giulia for approx half the new price. I've driven it and really rank it. Just a brilliant thing to drive - refined and sporty. The drive-by-wire brakes are weird and take some getting used to, but everything else about the car is top notch. The only reason I haven't bought one is that it bottoms out on my steep driveway hump. :sad:
His has been faultless and from what I read, once Alfa sorted the early (and substantial) electronics gremlins the car is now reliable.
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I have had quite a few Alfa's and always found them pretty decent. The Mrs' current Giulietta is a bit Meh though in terms of how it drives.
I considered a Giulia before getting the Golf, but the model I was after (280bhp Veloce) was too expensive at the time.
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After having a catch up read of the thread it’s good to see it’s still going strong several days later.
Loads of good insights from different angles all still pointing to how good a car the 7(.5) GTI still is and how good value they are for what you get as a package.
Wherever anyone stands from a personal viewpoint on a mk8 GTI/R there’s no denying how expensive a well specced new one has become compared to the deals going on 7.5’s a few short years ago before the world fell on its arse.
Now, being a peasant I know nothing about Porsches, but decided that as a well specced GTI or moderate R is knocking on £45k to £50k I’d have a look and see what a 718 is nowadays. I had in my mind around £60k starting price bearing in mind an RS3 is that sort of level and TT’s probably not far off.
I fired up the Porsche configurator and was surprised to see a 718 starts around £47k.
I don’t know what sort of power they have or what kit you get or how you’d fit grandma in the back or your 2.4 metre decking planks but it’s food for thought.
Prior to the lease system opening up to me, MK 8 Clubsport was on my list to look at, but where previously the GTD and the R were exceptional company lease deals next to even standard spec other brands, only the GTD appeared as an option and it required an extra £100 above allowance.
Times have changed dramatically, that early £30,000 GTI is a distant memory. Due to being extremely good value (more so in comparison to the VAG pricing) the final choice came between the Mini Cooper JCW and the BMW 128Ti and due to the all around practicality the 128Ti was one pushed button on, and paying much less than paid for pleasure of TCR 3 years ago.
Only 12 weeks left before the TCR heads off into the distance to be someone else pride and joy, so really making most of driving it at moment.
Lease companies really profited from Covid, the auction prices they receive are well above previous which is in part to the reduced mileage, mine has always been circa 27,000 miles over the 3 years, the TCR will be going back with 21,000 miles, and that's with me throwing in a Scotland trip.
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I'm sorry and don't take this the wrong way but a TCR is a much better car and is worth the extra. Just looking at a Pure Grey on Belvederes you can see it's different and a bit special. 7.5 Performance is still a great by the way.
I don't disagree but can't really see how they are worth the massive 6-10k extra over a 7.5 pp
have you driven a TCR?
Yes I have, very good they are too just can't seem to convince myself they are worth that much more than 7.5 performance. All decent ones are well over 30k now.
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I’ve had a couple of Alfas, including a very nice silver 156. It was a £21k car, which I bought two years old for £9k.
Damn nice looking car, fun to drive, but in truth inferior to its german rivals in every way.
Haven’t followed the alfa brand since the late 90s but I don’t expect much will have changed- the initial reviews will praise the styling and the engines( “ a car you can buy with head as well as heart etc etc”) but long term reviews won’t be so complimentary. The badge is the best bit of any alfa.
You may remember Harry metcalfe’s video.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2k0M50u7n2k
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I'm sorry and don't take this the wrong way but a TCR is a much better car and is worth the extra. Just looking at a Pure Grey on Belvederes you can see it's different and a bit special. 7.5 Performance is still a great by the way.
I don't disagree but can't really see how they are worth the massive 6-10k extra over a 7.5 pp
have you driven a TCR?
Yes I have, very good they are too just can't seem to convince myself they are worth that much more than 7.5 performance. All decent ones are well over 30k now.
It's surprising they held their value tbh.
When I looked at buying one new they were expensive on pcp as the gfv was barely more than a standard gti pp. Which made it very poor value...
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After having a catch up read of the thread it’s good to see it’s still going strong several days later.
Loads of good insights from different angles all still pointing to how good a car the 7(.5) GTI still is and how good value they are for what you get as a package.
Wherever anyone stands from a personal viewpoint on a mk8 GTI/R there’s no denying how expensive a well specced new one has become compared to the deals going on 7.5’s a few short years ago before the world fell on its arse.
Now, being a peasant I know nothing about Porsches, but decided that as a well specced GTI or moderate R is knocking on £45k to £50k I’d have a look and see what a 718 is nowadays. I had in my mind around £60k starting price bearing in mind an RS3 is that sort of level and TT’s probably not far off.
I fired up the Porsche configurator and was surprised to see a 718 starts around £47k.
I don’t know what sort of power they have or what kit you get or how you’d fit grandma in the back or your 2.4 metre decking planks but it’s food for thought.
Interesting post! Never ever thought a new Cayman (however basic) could be bought for 47k. This actually looks a bargain compared to everything else on the market at the moment. Unfortunately still massively too much for me to consider though! I always used to buy outright a 12 to 18 month old GTI for no more than 22k (which is my limit!). Now 22k doesn't seem to buy much at all :(
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I always used to buy outright a 12 to 18 month old GTI for no more than 22k (which is my limit!). Now 22k doesn't seem to buy much at all :(
There are two sides to that.
What did you pay for current car, and how much is it worth now?
Cost to change is more important than screen price.
I paid just over £17k for mine about 2.5 years ago. It's still worth that today, so I know full well the next car will have a higher screen price than the current one.
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After having a catch up read of the thread it’s good to see it’s still going strong several days later.
Loads of good insights from different angles all still pointing to how good a car the 7(.5) GTI still is and how good value they are for what you get as a package.
Wherever anyone stands from a personal viewpoint on a mk8 GTI/R there’s no denying how expensive a well specced new one has become compared to the deals going on 7.5’s a few short years ago before the world fell on its arse.
Now, being a peasant I know nothing about Porsches, but decided that as a well specced GTI or moderate R is knocking on £45k to £50k I’d have a look and see what a 718 is nowadays. I had in my mind around £60k starting price bearing in mind an RS3 is that sort of level and TT’s probably not far off.
I fired up the Porsche configurator and was surprised to see a 718 starts around £47k.
I don’t know what sort of power they have or what kit you get or how you’d fit grandma in the back or your 2.4 metre decking planks but it’s food for thought.
Interesting post! Never ever thought a new Cayman (however basic) could be bought for 47k. This actually looks a bargain compared to everything else on the market at the moment. Unfortunately still massively too much for me to consider though! I always used to buy outright a 12 to 18 month old GTI for no more than 22k (which is my limit!). Now 22k doesn't seem to buy much at all :(
Putting aside the issue of inflation, it also illustrates how the golf gti has changed over the years.
No longer an ordinary hatchback with a slightly tuned engine and suspension, these are now pretty sophisticated cars.
That’s a real shame, imo.
Golf gti brand new in 1988- £11,500 . Adjusted for inflation that’s £26k.
You can’t buy a brand new golf gti for that money now.
Just out of interst, does anyone know how much you could expect to pay for a brand new basic manual gti ( with discount??)?
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Drive the Deal says £31900 after discount for a standard car in the 'free' colour. Just over £36k list.
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Thanks Watts. That’s more than I expected
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It’ll be interesting to see how the new Type R Civic launches at price wise. Much less gaudy than the previous gen and has a proper gearbox.
https://youtu.be/Sa5a0wMVGDY if you can stomach an excitable American
Going back to the Cayman, Meister, with inflation running at 10%+ your £22k is depreciating quite rapidly even allowing for car market weirdness forcing prices sky high. To move forward you’d have to swallow your principles (as I did too) and borrow money or settle long term with what you have.
On the assumption you can stomach a PCP then a used Cayman actually stacks up well £ for £ compared to a used GTI/R when comparing respective main dealer deals. I just sat and ran some figures.
Interest rates on personal loans can still be had at quite reasonable APR rates though, even if mortgages and PCP % rates are creeping upwards.
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It's a nice idea that you can buy a new Cayman for £47,700....... See how it goes?
With the dealer allocation, it is hard work to get a dealer who will sell you a car at the lower end of the range (margin?).
Then try to buy a base car, from a depreciation point of view, the dealers like to think they will have the car back at some point as you move up the range, it;s hard to sell an aspirational base car on for top money. The insistance is that you have to spend some money on extras to save money down the line.
Even things such as parking sensors, folding mirrors & adaptive cruise we get as standard on a mk7-7.5 GTi are additional cost options.
Assuming you start with a paint upgrade, then add in features you expect on your GTi, you could soon be at £52k, with £55k easily done, a lot of money for the base car with a 2.0T, 300 Bhp and a manual gearbox?
Of the many sayings you hear in the Porsche world, one usually rings true, "There is no such thing as a cheap Porsche!" :)
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I’d be shooed out of a Porsche showroom with a broom as soon as they clapped eyes on me I’m sure.
I can understand their attitude and I’d not want a standard spec car but I’m sure costs could be kept reasonable so long as you only picked items you actually needed rather than showing off with your chequebook buying a load of frippery.
It was the affordability of used examples that surprised me more. What also surprised me was how many examples had multiple owners.
I didn’t seriously think many people would buy one over a Golf, I was highlighting more how much Golfs are now compared to a bottom end Porsche.
Still, 300PS in a low slung not overly heavy mid engined car isn’t too shabby. Most of the driving aid crap I’d happily forego but bits that actually added to driver enjoyment I’d plump for. Manual gearbox - tick.
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This is quite an interesting conversation.
I think the hidden problem with Porsche are the running and espec servicing costs. I wonder if that is why quite a few seem to have had several owners in a low mileage. I think people who may not even know that much about cars get sucked in because they like the dream but can’t hack the reality.
Being of a lazy disposition I browse performance cars on Cazoo and Cinch. They show v clearly how many owners a car has had and fascinatingly the date and mileage of the last service and the current mileage.
Some of these are a horror show which bears out that my suspicion on Porsches maybe applies to other cars too regarding some short term owners.
One advantage of “non prestige” performance cars are that you pay non prestige labour and parts rates.
So here is the GTI’s secret weapon…….respected “wine” reputation at modest “beer” costs.
Boom!
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Look forward to your base Cayman experience & selling it on?
I don't mean to be blase, but having owned Lwt 911 for last 29 years and driven many variants of Porsche, I don't really see the marque as aspirational anymore. The latest variants are built in greater numbers than when they were a premium product.
It's good to have a goal, I bought a new 911 20 years ago, just so I could tick the childhood dream of ordering a new car to my spec, I had it for 9000 miles over 14 months and sold it through a Mclaren F1 dealer for £4k profit, I then bought a secondhand air cooled RS as I felt that was what Porsche was all about!
I haven't been tempted to buy a new one since then despite having the opportunity to drive friends GTS, Spyder, GT3/4 & RS, most have sold their newer cars with an old school Porsche being retained.
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This is quite an interesting conversation.
I think the hidden problem with Porsche are the running and espec servicing costs. I wonder if that is why quite a few seem to have had several owners in a low mileage. I think people who may not even know that much about cars get sucked in because they like the dream but can’t hack the reality.
Being of a lazy disposition I browse performance cars on Cazoo and Cinch. They show v clearly how many owners a car has had and fascinatingly the date and mileage of the last service and the current mileage.
Some of these are a horror show which bears out that my suspicion on Porsches maybe applies to other cars too regarding some short term owners.
One advantage of “non prestige” performance cars are that you pay non prestige labour and parts rates.
So here is the GTI’s secret weapon…….respected “wine” reputation at modest “beer” costs.
Boom!
In recent years Porsche have a 2 year service interval, with the 4 year service being quite costly, plugs, belts etc...You see cars for sale before the 3 year warranty is up & are a year away from the more costly service..... if you don't spend the money at that point, it usually costs you more in depreciation than if you had?
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So here is the GTI’s secret weapon…….respected “wine” reputation at modest “beer” costs.
Boom!
Nail on head! :afro:
To be honest I’ve never looked at these new fangled sites like Cazoo or Cinch.
I’m old fashioned and prefer a very occasional browse of good ol’ Autotrader.
To be honest the mere thought of Cinch brings images of that Rylan creature into my head which, along with Porsche owners calling their cars pork, makes me want to :sick: :sick:
Look forward to your base Cayman experience & selling it on?
Alas, although I like the thought of that challenge I’ll pass on it :grin:
Once upon a time I could probably have afforded a decent Porsche but I was boring and blew it on a bigger house, chopping and changing Golfs and holidays.
Unfortunately I’m not a futures trader/IT Professional/Barrister/train driver/dentist/pilot/brick layer so these things are beyond my aspirations now.
I do get that proper Porsche enthusiasts love the older stuff.
Character and useable performance.
An old friend of mine is/was a PCGB member and has owned his 944 for over 25 years.
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Exonian, I don't know if you are aware of the "pink pig"?
Part of the reason some Porsche owners refer to their cars as "pork" can be blamed on the 917/20 Le Mans car.
The car was painted pink and the decals added, showed the cuts of meat you would find at a butcher shop!
https://www.excellence-mag.com/issues/273/articles/the-trufflehunter-of-zuffenhausen
Your long term Porsche owner friend will probably have heard of this?
Respec' to the 944 massive etc.....:)
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Ohh, that’s really interesting actually.
I had heard the pink pig term in the dim and distant past but had absolutely no idea that it had its origins there. I’d imagined it was to do with the shape (and colour obviously) of a 911 racer back in the day and a play on the old “Porker” name.
Once upon a time (back in my teens) I worked in the motor trade briefly after I left college, in fact it started as a Saturday job when I was at college, and you’d get these creepy 1980’s car traders who were proper Arfur Daley types who’d come in to bid on part exchange cars taken in. These guys had their own slang and although they were bottom feeders by and large they always talked themselves up and would refer to Porsches as Porkers.
It made me dislike the term because I associated it with these guys.
Then fast forward to mk5 GTI days and the advent of the internet, I’d read mk5 owners discussing Porsche brake kit retrofits and other matters Porsche as “pork” and it just seemed so inappropriate and cringeworthy.
I’ve hated the term ever since.
But now I’m educated and I found the link really interesting :afro:
I love things like historic trivia (not that it’s a trivial thing really!) and it’s put a smile on my face on how they went about it. :smiley:
Anyway clubsport, if you’re ever in the West Country and want to show me a proper Porsche I’d love that. Or even just to talk Golf Clubsports.
Meantime we’d best get back to talking Golfs before our wrists are slapped…
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The cookies have been spying on me.
This vid just popped up in my suggestions.
Cheap pork (aaaaaarrrrrggghhh)
https://youtu.be/Uh87XuPAz8g
He is kind of coming from the same angle as me, especially as far as options go and the “buy one second hand” bit. Ok, prices will have firmed up considerably since that was shot but it’s still doable.
But rather than the 2.0 you could perhaps stretch to a used 2.5 with some extras (heed clubsport’s words of advice there from a person who knows) for similar money to a new 2.0. I think that would always be my choice, there’s no substituting a bit of displacement.
Or keep the 7.5 GTI and enjoy it.
Yep, keep the Golf…
no, buy the Porsche and let grandma use her bus pass
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The cookies have been spying on me.
This vid just popped up in my suggestions.
Cheap pork (aaaaaarrrrrggghhh)
https://youtu.be/Uh87XuPAz8g
He is kind of coming from the same angle as me, especially as far as options go and the “buy one second hand” bit. Ok, prices will have firmed up considerably since that was shot but it’s still doable.
But rather than the 2.0 you could perhaps stretch to a used 2.5 with some extras (heed clubsport’s words of advice there from a person who knows) for similar money to a new 2.0. I think that would always be my choice, there’s no substituting a bit of displacement.
Or keep the 7.5 GTI and enjoy it.
Yep, keep the Golf…
no, buy the Porsche and let grandma use her bus pass
I've been getting a bit itchy in the Autotrader department. Been looking at TTS/RS, Boxster/Cayman (all used) but each time I go out in the GTI I think why would I change? Stupid idea! I fully understand why those in GTIPs think the change to a TCR is of questionable value but I'm glad I did, it feels a different car to drive and all the little differences really do add up.
As for, in this case, my mum getting in a Porsche, she can barely get in the Golf so a moot point for me!
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I've been getting a bit itchy in the Autotrader department. Been looking at TTS/RS, Boxster/Cayman (all used) but each time I go out in the GTI I think why would I change? Stupid idea!
This pretty much sums up my life right now :laugh: Even more so now my GTI is no longer under finance. What's the point? Do I need anything more? It's purely a want, and one I just don't have the cash for right now. Would have to finance again, and that would feel like a backwards step.
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Is no one going to take a Brave Pill and buy a Honda S2000? :wink:
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It’ll be interesting to see how the new Type R Civic launches at price wise. Much less gaudy than the previous gen and has a proper gearbox.
https://youtu.be/Sa5a0wMVGDY if you can stomach an excitable American
Going back to the Cayman, Meister, with inflation running at 10%+ your £22k is depreciating quite rapidly even allowing for car market weirdness forcing prices sky high. To move forward you’d have to swallow your principles (as I did too) and borrow money or settle long term with what you have.
On the assumption you can stomach a PCP then a used Cayman actually stacks up well £ for £ compared to a used GTI/R when comparing respective main dealer deals. I just sat and ran some figures.
Interest rates on personal loans can still be had at quite reasonable APR rates though, even if mortgages and PCP % rates are creeping upwards.
Yes good point Exonian, but still think the 7.5 looks far better compared to the new Civic Type R (based on pictures).
I would never purchase a car on finance and always buy outright (far more cost effective!), therefore even though I can afford it, based on principle I would feel hesitant going any higher than 25k overall!
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I’d be shooed out of a Porsche showroom with a broom as soon as they clapped eyes on me I’m sure.
I can understand their attitude and I’d not want a standard spec car but I’m sure costs could be kept reasonable so long as you only picked items you actually needed rather than showing off with your chequebook buying a load of frippery.
It was the affordability of used examples that surprised me more. What also surprised me was how many examples had multiple owners.
I didn’t seriously think many people would buy one over a Golf, I was highlighting more how much Golfs are now compared to a bottom end Porsche.
Still, 300PS in a low slung not overly heavy mid engined car isn’t too shabby. Most of the driving aid crap I’d happily forego but bits that actually added to driver enjoyment I’d plump for. Manual gearbox - tick.
Yes just looked on the Porsche used market, and am also shocked how relatively good value a lot of the Caymans are (certainly when compared to prices of new and nearly new golfs). Regardless of the equipment levels, I think the Cayman is a step up in most ways and would probably hold far more future value on the used market. Definitely the manual box, I agree!
The servicing costs would partially put me off the idea of a Porsche though, but definitely food for thought!
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I always used to buy outright a 12 to 18 month old GTI for no more than 22k (which is my limit!). Now 22k doesn't seem to buy much at all :(
There are two sides to that.
What did you pay for current car, and how much is it worth now?
Cost to change is more important than screen price.
I paid just over £17k for mine about 2.5 years ago. It's still worth that today, so I know full well the next car will have a higher screen price than the current one.
Yes I know! On my 20th car now so well aware haha. Price to change would historically have been 5-6k to get a car 2 years newer. Now that would be 12-15k. INSANE! What mine is worth in money value is totally irrelevant in a sense.
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as far as the Civic goes.
This is a Japanese version of stylish: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CgGfKdejNXb/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
:whistle:
I said in my first post about the Cayman that I know nothing about Porsches in the hope that one of our resident Porsche owners would chip in and tell us the state of play as it’s more of a specialist market (similar to special edition Golfs in some ways) and clubsport brought up some very useful insights.
Used examples do seem to offer decent value despite being very close to retail in some cases (no differently to Golfs at the moment to be fair) and would comply more with acceptable spec than a basic base model we can now appreciate. Using the Porsche PCP calculator it shows how solid the residuals should be as the monthlies are actually less than a couple of VW’s I ran quotes on just to compare. Therefore as a cash purchase they should make a decent proposition.
As you say, quality, engineering and dynamics are likely leagues ahead of their people’s car brethren.
Servicing and parts costs might be leagues ahead too!
I used to be in the “only pay cash” camp but gradually weakened into bank loan assistance and then finally with the current car a PCP as the years rolled by.
The thought of the interest I’m paying horrifies me but as the saying goes, you can’t take it with you. In fact in my case it’s spend it quick before the kids want yet another “loan”
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I tried to add some "colour" to the base Cayman idea, you are literally unicorn hunting.....I doubt Porsche will let you order one. You can run numbers on configurators and finance calculations, it's all part of the game.
Have a look here at Porsche approved used cars,,,,,
https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/search?condition=porsche_approved&model=718&category=718-cayman&body-type=coupe&minimum-registration-date=2019
None are base cars, they may be bottom of the Cayman & current Porsche range, but are equipped with various levels of extras, you can even spend £80k on a 2022 2.0L 300bhp Cayman if you are feeling irrationaly exuberant!
Knock yourself out on autotrader with an £80k budget, I will be amazed if the 2.0L Cayman is where you spend it? :)
Earlier on in this thread the 718 with the 2.5L was mentioned, I have only driven one with a Pdk box, it is a torque monster and suits that box well. On track they genuinely surprise Porsche further up the hierachy.
To bring things back on track, if you have £40k to spend on a Golf 8 Clubsport, but are open to a second hand car, would you look any further than 400 PS Audi RS3 ?
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My original post on the subject was purely hypothetical that Golfs can now cost the same as a base model Porsche new.
I very much agree with your point you need to pay more to save more in the long run when buying specialist cars like Porsches and hence my comparing how second hand Caymans can actually have lower monthly PCP costs than late second hand Golf R’s and Clubsports due to stronger residuals. I was actually using the Porsche UK used car selection rather than looking at independent sellers as the handy PCP calculator meant I could do direct comparisons between VW UK approved used and Porsche approved used.
I honestly don’t know what I’d buy with an £80k budget, I’ve never put myself in that position or thought about it. To me a large sum like £80k would go into property. I’m incredibly dull I’m afraid and have never had much ambition so expensive cars have always been something other people buy, my bar is set far lower.
I’d definitely not spend it on a 2.0 Cayman though! :grin:
I doubt you’d get a 4.0 one for that(?)
£40k budget, I can remember not so long ago Audi dealers were knocking out vanilla RS3’s brand new for around that towards the end of the last generation. I did have a serious think about it at the time.
What does £40k buy now? Not so much I’d guess.
I paid £33k for my Clubsport 19 months ago, so I don’t think I’d stomach paying £40k for one now. If I was going over £40k on a Golf I’d push the boat a bit further and get an R with a few extras.
I’m not sure what I’d go for with a circa £40k budget to be honest. Nothing much floats my boat. Maybe I should do a bit of car window shopping, trouble is I tend to end up putting my money where my mouth is and inadvertently buy something. So a bad idea. I’m quite settled with my 8CS which is a rarity for me.
How much does a mint low mileage Clubsport S go for these days?
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My new cars have often been end of model purchases that provide good discounts and private sales for cars I am getting rid of. Maximising the pot o money available has been the priority rather than the latest gizmos. I did have the benefit of spot hiing for work and usually managed a merc or bmw or something similar to try by sweet talking the hie company. Made me realise how much hype and badge snobbery there was for some quite basic cars. The vw gti 7.5 for me hits the right buttons and was good value. Have driven an R but not a CS. Not sure any new car is good value now given other rising costs unless a company subsidized purchase. Given my substantial age my mk7.5pp will see me out! Enjoying the debate though. :smiley:
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Exonian, you asked about the value of a mk7 GTi CS,
This one sold last month on Collecting Cars;
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2016-volkswagen-golf-mk7-gti-clubsport-s
Including buyers fees that cost £51k.
This low (ish) but higher mileage example is currently available for £35,950
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106193991666?year-from=2016&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&postcode=br51je&include-delivery-option=on&model=Golf&advertising-location=at_cars&transmission=Manual&quantity-of-doors=3&body-type=Hatchback&radius=1500&make=Volkswagen&min-engine-power=250&year-to=2017&fuel-type=Petrol&sort=datedesc&keywords=clubsport&page=2&percentVehiclePriceDeposit=true
The CS-S , especially in low mileage collector spec is now a commodity, the only tangible difference between the two cars above is the mileage,,,,,, if you plan to use the delivery mileage car, you will likely lose some of it's inherent value.
As a commodity that doesn't really tie in with the usable performance and practicality ethos of a performance Golf?
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joe6, run out models tend to be by far the best purchases I’d agree. By that time nearly all the bugs have been ironed out (not that the 7th series Golf had that many) and quite often there’s a lot of extra kit for the money plus decent deals to be had.
clubsport, thanks for that. A CSS is a known quantity to me so it’s a useful reference point as to how a sought after VW rarity compares with the current spiralling prices (and APR rates) of newer cars.
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Did the OP also post on Pistonheads? If not, it is interesting to see what the posters there suggested as what to follow a GTI with...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=&t=1995956to
alt link:
shorturl.at/bhnSU
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Ha! Good spot dfm.
That link took me to the PH landing page as I’m not a member but after a quick scroll through the General Gassing I found it easily enough.
Quite a mix of suggestions, some quite funny, good to see someone else was on the Cayman page :grin:
“Sell the dog, give up golf…”
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What does £40k buy now? Not so much I’d guess.
I bought a new Tig Elegance 200TDI for my wife in April 21. It was a stock car and luckily the list price just snuck under the £40k bar. I had a cracking deal and paid just over £32k for it. Then it all went silly.
She has never really gelled with the Tig and much prefers to drive round in out 2013 Polo Rline day to day. The other day I had an email about the 'new' T-Roc, so I had a look. By the time I'd speced one up to have most of what our Tig has (albeit with just the 150TDI engine) I was north of £42k
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Much to wife annoyance, still not totally given up on keeping the TCR and have just done a Motorway (£26751) and WeBuyAnyCar valuation (£26810) which was surprised about, much less than thought given prices seeing them on Autotrader and much less than the quote the lease company gave me 2 months ago, and if lease company price remains about the same when ask again in September then it would an instant depreciation to what could get if sold straightaway.
You imagine that the dealer getting the car at that price would put straight on forecourt at £33-34,000
TCR may keep their value down the line, much as good ED35 have, but feeling that its still too much for me to stretch too in current climate where you think there maybe will be a drop in second hand car prices down the line.
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Did the OP also post on Pistonheads? If not, it is interesting to see what the posters there suggested as what to follow a GTI with...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=&t=1995956to
alt link:
shorturl.at/bhnSU
Hah! That was me
Here's the proper link: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=255&t=1995956
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How about a Audi S4 avant???
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How about a Audi S4 avant???
I don't like Audis haha. And miles miles too expensive with stupid servicing costs. :)
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Whenever I see AT adverts I am amazed how well they hold value. Fairly sure they went with a diesel engine for the latest generation which has firmed up the petrol engined cars' values further.
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I never thought I'd be saying this, but I think the new 2022-23 Honda Civic Type R looks rather good, both outside and inside. I have always found the Type R overstyled and a bit ridiculous looking, but this new one looks purposeful and classy (although not sure about the huge spoiler!). I assume it will drive superbly too.
Will certainly take a closer look at these when they come out, and can see these appealing to many Mk7/7.5 owners.
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I don't know much about the latest Civic Type R, a friend has an order placed on one, purely on the basis he was told 200 are coming to the UK, you have to be in it to win it....
I looked at the previous R and found it to be more Passat size than Golf, so that wasn't for me!
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The new Civic looks so much better than the previous one, but why 3 tailpipes?
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The new Civic looks so much better than the previous one, but why 3 tailpipes?
Mines bigger than yours perhaps? :wink:
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How about a Audi S4 avant???
Having been in the same predicament, and not knowing what to go for next, I went with the S4 Avant - though god knows when it will arrive, currently being quoted March / April - £10k discount after extras added - which was about £1k more than the R estate.
Though still seems a lot just to throw two dogs in the back !
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I don't know much about the latest Civic Type R, a friend has an order placed on one, purely on the basis he was told 200 are coming to the UK, you have to be in it to win it....
I looked at the previous R and found it to be more Passat size than Golf, so that wasn't for me!
200? Seems unlikely doesn't it? Maybe that's just the initial allocation.
I guess they are built in Japan again now, not Swindon.
I know it tops the hot hatch reviews but I don't think I'd want one. Bit much for a daily driver.
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Had a 240i out for an afternoon few days back And it was a good alternative to Consider not as hard core as an m2but much more user friendly Definitely an option if changing the golf for some people
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I don't know much about the latest Civic Type R, a friend has an order placed on one, purely on the basis he was told 200 are coming to the UK, you have to be in it to win it....
I looked at the previous R and found it to be more Passat size than Golf, so that wasn't for me!
200? Seems unlikely doesn't it? Maybe that's just the initial allocation.
I guess they are built in Japan again now, not Swindon.
I know it tops the hot hatch reviews but I don't think I'd want one. Bit much for a daily driver.
I don't know for sure, that is what he has been told up to now, they are coming to the UK between Jan - July 2023.
The new (regular) Civic available in the UK from the Autumn is due to be a hybrid, so the Type R may well be a halo car, as in generate interest in the marque, keeping residuals high?
After the UK success of the GR Yaris, selling something around 2500 cars, the GR 86 Coupe UK allocation of 400 cars over 2 years sold out in 90 minutes, apparently that is it!?
I think this low allocation of specialist high end sports hatch/coupes from manufacturers of economy cars may be a thing, the higher output cars negatively affect the overall C02 average of cars produced by the company, hence lower, defined production runs?
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Having been in the same predicament, and not knowing what to go for next, I went with the S4 Avant - though god knows when it will arrive, currently being quoted March / April - £10k discount after extras added - which was about £1k more than the R estate.
Though still seems a lot just to throw two dogs in the back !
So much more class than a Golf Estate for hardly any price premium. Shows how weird car pricing can be.
Nice choice btw. :smiley:
Had a 240i out for an afternoon few days back And it was a good alternative to Consider not as hard core as an m2but much more user friendly Definitely an option if changing the golf for some people
Review required!
Slightly controversial looks (although by current BMW standards only very slightly!) but again it’s a lot of car for the money when you weigh up what you get, especially compared to some of the Golf R type hatches.
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I was out and about today and a car made me absolutely stop in my tracks and stare! This is extremely rare for me, especially as a 7.5 GTI owner! The car in question was a BMW 230i coupe in the deep purple colour they do and I am surprising myself in actually loving the design. I usually absolutely hate all things BMW with a passion but this seems to me an excellent, well proportioned and aggressive design. It certainly made me stop and look!
Would need to go and have a closer look at one, but does look good in my humble opinion! Has anyone driven one and what are other people's opinion!
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I was out and about today and a car made me absolutely stop in my tracks and stare! This is extremely rare for me, especially as a 7.5 GTI owner! The car in question was a BMW 230i coupe in the deep purple colour they do and I am surprising myself in actually loving the design. I usually absolutely hate all things BMW with a passion but this seems to me an excellent, well proportioned and aggressive design. It certainly made me stop and look!
Would need to go and have a closer look at one, but does look good in my humble opinion! Has anyone driven one and what are other people's opinion!
Much of the same opinion, brilliant looking car imo the M2 should look a lot more like it at the front. Hoping the prices drop like the old ones before I feel the need to change, ideally in the m240i's.
Thunder Purple or Portimao Blue would be my colour choice as I have a feeling there will be too many brooklyn grey's driving around in a few years.
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I was out and about today and a car made me absolutely stop in my tracks and stare! This is extremely rare for me, especially as a 7.5 GTI owner! The car in question was a BMW 230i coupe in the deep purple colour they do and I am surprising myself in actually loving the design. I usually absolutely hate all things BMW with a passion but this seems to me an excellent, well proportioned and aggressive design. It certainly made me stop and look!
Would need to go and have a closer look at one, but does look good in my humble opinion! Has anyone driven one and what are other people's opinion!
Much of the same opinion, brilliant looking car imo the M2 should look a lot more like it at the front. Hoping the prices drop like the old ones before I feel the need to change, ideally in the m240i's.
Thunder Purple or Portimao Blue would be my colour choice as I have a feeling there will be too many brooklyn grey's driving around in a few years.
Afraid you're both on your own with that. :grin: Every time I see a BMW these days, I just think 'WTF were the design team on?' A mate got an M3 Touring and I saw it recently in person. I don't....hate..it but it's hard to like aesthetically.
I think cars with dramatic bodywork need flat colours. Thundernight/Twilight (not up on my BMW colours) is quite attractive but it's like Viola Metallic in Porsche choices, I think it's going to be a niche option.
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Those 2 series coupes have good presence on the road and seem properly put together. As AGB says, BMW have some err ‘unusual’ and ‘challenging’ designs amongst their range and some plain scarily hideous SUV’s that are clearly aimed at markets where a buyer wouldn’t run away screaming if a pan fried collie was served up.
There are a few new shaped M3’s dotted around very close to my home and I actually quite like them, especially the green.
Therefore there are still a few offerings from Bavaria that don’t repulse me, and they still build interiors properly and… if you’re relatively flexible you can still pick up in stock cars directly advertised on BMW’s website rather than wait 18 months plus like you would generally have to for those handmade super cars called mk8 Golfs.
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I know someone who's ordered an Alpina B3 touring in green over the new M3 due to the look.
I also know a mk8 R owner who's ordered a new M2 which in my view looks terrible compared to the previous generation M2.
Its all personal taste at the end of the day.
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I know someone who's ordered an Alpina B3 touring in green over the new M3 due to the look.
I also know a mk8 R owner who's ordered a new M2 which in my view looks terrible compared to the previous generation M2.
Its all personal taste at the end of the day.
Subjective taste is just that although I refuse to accept that anyone defending the new 7 Series M has any taste whatsoever. Same goes for the new XM. And the X4. I'll accept taste varies on the rest. :laugh:
Friend with the touring has his in Tanzanite Blue and I see there is one for sale at Hairpin (http://"https://www.thehairpincompany.co.uk/for-sale/cars/2023-bmw-m3-touring"). His interior, wheel choice and option of heritage bonnet badge are the only other differences. Shows that the right colour can make a difference.
Richard Tipper at Perfection Valet is currently doing a new vehicle prep on an Alpine B3 (http://"https://twitter.com/perfectionvalet/status/1654904967491100677") in green - might be of interest? An Alpine in green over tan is a lovely thing although I wonder how long you'll be at the wheels with a wheel woolly! :grin:
Friend who bought the M3 had the exact same debate but drove them back to back at Sytner. His view was that the B3 is more refined and a tourer where the M3 is more performance car with space. His solution was to pick Tanzanite Blue to knock back the ugly on the M3 and I think he succeeded. It has an E61 M5 Touring vibe and I can't quite put my finger on why.
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I couldn't bring myself to buy a 4 cylinder BMW. BMW for me are all about straight 6's and I don't consider the 4 cylinder B48 as good as the EA888 in the GTI. It is less reliable, lacks dual injection and in the real world is worse on MPG.
The B58 however is a masterpiece that is happy pootling along one minute but is a monster of an engine onces your foot goes down. It is capable of 40mpg on a steady run as well.
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I couldn't bring myself to buy a 4 cylinder BMW. BMW for me are all about straight 6's and I don't consider the 4 cylinder B48 as good as the EA888 in the GTI. It is less reliable, lacks dual injection and in the real world is worse on MPG.
The B58 however is a masterpiece that is happy pootling along one minute but is a monster of an engine onces your foot goes down. It is capable of 40mpg on a steady run as well.
Controversial but I'd go the diesel route with the N57 for a normal BMW, although it would be at the lack of noise. Although when looking at newer cars with GPF's anyway it's not that much of a difference.
Had a M340i as a loan car a while ago and was very quiet, but mpg similar to the GTI which is impressive for a 6 cylinder petrol.
Afraid you're both on your own with that. :grin: Every time I see a BMW these days, I just think 'WTF were the design team on?' A mate got an M3 Touring and I saw it recently in person. I don't....hate..it but it's hard to like aesthetically.
I think cars with dramatic bodywork need flat colours. Thundernight/Twilight (not up on my BMW colours) is quite attractive but it's like Viola Metallic in Porsche choices, I think it's going to be a niche option.
I think we can all agree on where the source of the poor aesthetic design choices originate on the new bmw range... the beaver teeth. Otherwise the design is fairly in keeping with previous generations, but the best looking ones are a normal 3 series or 2 series with properly proportioned faces.
But I have to agree the previous generation of M2 was a lot prettier, although a little awkward at the boot lid.