GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Ej1749 on 04 February 2021, 10:56
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Does anyone know any companies that can do a GTD MK7 engine swap to a GTI or R engine (effectively a clubsport engine without the 4wd of course). I don't want to simply change my car to a GTI because, well, that's boring. I want a project to do especially as lockdown is so boring!!!
Not a problem, but if I could get a Haldex conversion as well that would be cool, but that's not a necessity and I know would probably cost too much. :smiley:
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That's going to be one expensive modification when you consider all the other bits you'll need to swap. Probably quite a bit more than the cost of simply swapping the GTD for a GTi. You'll potentially also be left with a car that's less capable than a 'proper' GTi, harder to insure and harder to sell on.
But if that's what you really wanna do, then best of luck to you. Hope it goes well.
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The old adage "never build what you can buy" has never been more appropriate.
A tuned GTD with 4 wheel drive on the other hand...
Audi already have the right gearbox, and my understanding is the rear subframes are interchangeable with just the spare wheel well needing modifying to make room for the diff.
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The old adage "never build what you can buy" has never been more appropriate.
A tuned GTD with 4 wheel drive on the other hand...
Audi already have the right gearbox, and my understanding is the rear subframes are interchangeable with just the spare wheel well needing modifying to make room for the diff.
I've thought before that a 4WD GTD (maybe with a little more power) would be all the car you'd ever need realistically. A diesel would depend on your use case, sure, but it'd be good
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Disorientated by days in lockdown, this thread made me check it wasn't the 1st of April? :)
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The old adage "never build what you can buy" has never been more appropriate.
A tuned GTD with 4 wheel drive on the other hand...
Audi already have the right gearbox, and my understanding is the rear subframes are interchangeable with just the spare wheel well needing modifying to make room for the diff.
I saw a 4wd GTD estate in Norway a few years ago...
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The old adage "never build what you can buy" has never been more appropriate.
A tuned GTD with 4 wheel drive on the other hand...
Audi already have the right gearbox, and my understanding is the rear subframes are interchangeable with just the spare wheel well needing modifying to make room for the diff.
I've thought before that a 4WD GTD (maybe with a little more power) would be all the car you'd ever need realistically. A diesel would depend on your use case, sure, but it'd be good
VW did make a 4WD diesel 140bhp version of the mk5 Golf that was sold in the UK. It was the GT model (there wasn’t a mk5 GTD). I don’t think it was a big seller though; and that was when diesels sold in large volumes.
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Wasn't there a 184ps alltrack? (estate 4wd)
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Yes there was, and there's a Mk8 too with 200PS. Also a 4WD Octavia vRS too.
All the 4WD higher powered VAG diesels are DSG / auto though these days.
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I'm not sure it was ever pitched as a GTD-R though :whistle:
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Correct, not in the same league as the R for performance.
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The old adage "never build what you can buy" has never been more appropriate.
A tuned GTD with 4 wheel drive on the other hand...
Audi already have the right gearbox, and my understanding is the rear subframes are interchangeable with just the spare wheel well needing modifying to make room for the diff.
Ooohh this is really interesting as I have always had in the back of my mind that the equivalent A3 that has 184bhp as standard was 4wd. Thank you for this info I'm defo going to look into this :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: The only thing that does cross my mind is that it may not be as fun as FWD. However, if it can be done I'll defo do it and defo post all about it.
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Some names that spring to mind for the more nuts car work:
VW Enterprise
PSI Tuning
JBS Autodesign
Anything is possible :cool:
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That's going to be one expensive modification when you consider all the other bits you'll need to swap. Probably quite a bit more than the cost of simply swapping the GTD for a GTI. You'll potentially also be left with a car that's less capable than a 'proper' GTI, harder to insure and harder to sell on.
But if that's what you really wanna do, then best of luck to you. Hope it goes well.
Yeah not being as capable as a GTI is a worry. However, the good news is I actually own a small insurance company so I can self insure. Although we don't do motor yet, but I'm sure I could do a one off policy for myself as the car is only worth about 10K. I also want to keep the car as a collectors as 2030 is when they ban new combustion engines and I always want to have something from the past.
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Some names that spring to mind for the more nuts car work:
VW Enterprise
PSI Tuning
JBS Autodesign
Anything is possible :cool:
This is really helpful! Thank you for this as I'm new to the VW tuning scene so trying to work my way around the industry to get to know where to go for different things.
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That's going to be one expensive modification when you consider all the other bits you'll need to swap. Probably quite a bit more than the cost of simply swapping the GTD for a GTI. You'll potentially also be left with a car that's less capable than a 'proper' GTI, harder to insure and harder to sell on.
But if that's what you really wanna do, then best of luck to you. Hope it goes well.
Yeah not being as capable as a GTI is a worry. However, the good news is I actually own a small insurance company so I can self insure. Although we don't do motor yet, but I'm sure I could do a one off policy for myself as the car is only worth about 10K. I also want to keep the car as a collectors as 2030 is when they ban new combustion engines and I always want to have something from the past.
Doesn't your insurance policy have to be from a company registered with the MIB?
Its either that or you can deposit something like £10m with the DoT in lieu of insurance and that fund is used to guarantee pay out of your third party claims (its how large fleet operators do it, if you don't have any incidents its actually cheaper!)
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That's going to be one expensive modification when you consider all the other bits you'll need to swap. Probably quite a bit more than the cost of simply swapping the GTD for a GTI. You'll potentially also be left with a car that's less capable than a 'proper' GTI, harder to insure and harder to sell on.
But if that's what you really wanna do, then best of luck to you. Hope it goes well.
Yeah not being as capable as a GTI is a worry. However, the good news is I actually own a small insurance company so I can self insure. Although we don't do motor yet, but I'm sure I could do a one off policy for myself as the car is only worth about 10K. I also want to keep the car as a collectors as 2030 is when they ban new combustion engines and I always want to have something from the past.
Doesn't your insurance policy have to be from a company registered with the MIB?
Its either that or you can deposit something like £10m with the DoT in lieu of insurance and that fund is used to guarantee pay out of your third party claims (its how large fleet operators do it, if you don't have any incidents its actually cheaper!)
Yes, that's correct - A relationship with the MIB would need to be in place through either the insurer or the issuing broker. I know all the in's and out's of the MIB as I used to work for an insurance company many moons ago and the insurer and brokers need to upload to the MIB within 1 hour of the policy being incepted or they can be fined.
However, what I would do is a loophole and join it through another insurance company with someone I know, kind of like a combined insurance policy so that I didn't need any reserving's for 3rd party claims which is what the 10m would be for. It's very technical, but it works as the most important aspect is the 3rd party of course. Although, I have just spoken to an insurer from compare the market and they said all I would need to do if I converted to 4WD is click "engine modification" which ahs increased my premium by about £20 hahaha so it's all good! I've asked for it in writing as well to cover my own ass! :grin:
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Glad you know what you are doing, I'm just an amateur at most things, but collect piles of useless crap in my brain.
That snippet was from a discussion I had with our fleet manager a while back.
£20 extra for "I've modified the engine in an unspecified way" sounds....cheap. Would a W12 engine fit in??? :laugh:
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Glad you know what you are doing, I'm just an amateur at most things, but collect piles of useless crap in my brain.
That snippet was from a discussion I had with our fleet manager a while back.
£20 extra for "I've modified the engine in an unspecified way" sounds....cheap. Would a W12 engine fit in??? :laugh:
Haha tbf I just say big words to make me sound intelligent :grin: Didn't they put a W12 engine in one and show it on top gear about ten years ago, I seem to remember it struggling to stay in a straight line and then spinning at every corner? Hahaha
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I have just spoken to an insurer from compare the market and they said all I would need to do if I converted to 4WD is click "engine modification" which ahs increased my premium by about £20 hahaha so it's all good! I've asked for it in writing as well to cover my own ass! :grin:
Just a thought, but are there any vehicle inspection requirements or tests (similar to IVA for imported or kit cars) if substantial modifications are made to a car, such as converting a GTD to a 4WD GTI?
Is converting a FWD car to 4WD really considered to be an engine modification and not a drivetrain modification? Insurance aggregator sites such as Compare the Market, Moneysupermarket and the like are geared to writing predominantly large volumes of standard, unmodified insurance risks, with provision to cover some of the more straightforward modifications; e.g. a different set of alloy wheels. Insurers with products on Compare the Market etc. aren’t really interested in heavily modified cars - that’s not their area of specialisation - so may not have the technical know-how to handle this business.
With the modifications you’re planning, I think it’d be advisable to speak to either an insurance broker who specialises in placing (heavily) modified cars with specialist insurers who regularly write these types of risk, or speak direct to a specialist insurer of modified cars. They will have staff who are technically and mechanically minded and who’ll understand and fully appreciate the modifications you’re planning. That way, you should have the confidence of knowing you’re fully covered, and not just relying on your policy documents showing your car has ‘engine modifications’ with no mention of it being converted from FWD to 4WD.
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Looks like the answer might be this:
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-altered-vehicles
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Looks like the answer might be this:
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-altered-vehicles
That's really helpful! Thank you :smiley:
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Good luck - I think you are nuts, but :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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I really don't understand, why would you want to change a GTD into a GTI? I can understand engine swaps to something that isn't available like an RS3 5 cylinder or something mad like a V8, but why to something that is readily available?
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I really don't understand, why would you want to change a GTD into a GTI? I can understand engine swaps to something that isn't available like an RS3 5 cylinder or something mad like a V8, but why to something that is readily available?
The OP did explain that in his opening post.........he's bored in lockdown....!!
:wink:
Good luck to him. That Alan Millward guy is always putting unfeasible bike engines into, well, bikes. Why? He obviously likes a challenge. He's very good at it as well...... The OP's plan seems to be evolving, possibly into a tuned 4WD GTD hatch....Hopefully he will post lots of pictures of whatever project happens...
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I’ve been pondering this thread for a few days on and off.
Initial thoughts being “good Lord”, that’d need full engine, cooling, new fuel lines and tank, exhaust, different suspension, better brakes as the 312’s are sh!te on either a GTD or GTI, loads of ancillaries, new badges and grille(!!) etc, etc, etc.
Might as well shove an R engine in but you’d need to work around the cooling issues if using a GTI bumper.
Being a) the world’s most boring person and b ) having the patience and concentration levels of a kitten in a catnip warehouse it’s not something I’d remotely take on.
However, keeping to the GTD ethos and accepting it’ll never compete with a very fast petrol car from the traffic lights if you wanted to go to licence losing speeds there are loads of options that would enhance the car, and plenty of specialists that could turn the beast into something huge fun and very quick whilst only paying £20 a year road tax (assuming a manual).
Back in the ‘90s when GTIs got all boring and my VR6’s didn’t produce enough low/mid range grunt for my tastes I messed about with Diesel engines before it became fashionable (then unfashionable again after Dieselgate).
A well respected pioneering company back then was van Aaken developments based at the TRL near Bracknell where GTI International was held back in the day. They set up my modest 90bhp Ibiza TDI into something pushing nearer 150bhp (same power as a turbo mk4 GTI or mk3 16v of the day) with modest outlay and had a far far far more satisfying power delivery.
Nowadays somewhere like Darkside Developmemts would be able to get huge power out of a GTD whilst keeping it very drivable and cost far less than a petrol GTI conversion.
4WD not necessary really, you launch a Diesel differently to a petrol, nothing much to be gained from revving high and side-stepping the clutch.
“Use the torque Luke” as Sir Alec once said. Feed in smoothly and boooost! Great fun if you learn how to drive them properly.
Hybrid turbo, modified emissions gizmos and relevant ECU mapping, slightly better intercooling, maybe a few exhaust mods (straight through pipe?), mk8 R brakes... shouldn’t be too bad cost wise.
Now where’s the catnip?
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I’ve been pondering this thread for a few days on and off.
Initial thoughts being “good Lord”, that’d need full engine, cooling, new fuel lines and tank, exhaust, different suspension, better brakes as the 312’s are sh!te on either a GTD or GTI, loads of ancillaries, new badges and grille(!!) etc, etc, etc.
Might as well shove an R engine in but you’d need to work around the cooling issues if using a GTI bumper.
Being a) the world’s most boring person and b ) having the patience and concentration levels of a kitten in a catnip warehouse it’s not something I’d remotely take on.
However, keeping to the GTD ethos and accepting it’ll never compete with a very fast petrol car from the traffic lights if you wanted to go to licence losing speeds there are loads of options that would enhance the car, and plenty of specialists that could turn the beast into something huge fun and very quick whilst only paying £20 a year road tax (assuming a manual).
Back in the ‘90s when GTIs got all boring and my VR6’s didn’t produce enough low/mid range grunt for my tastes I messed about with Diesel engines before it became fashionable (then unfashionable again after Dieselgate).
A well respected pioneering company back then was van Aaken developments based at the TRL near Bracknell where GTI International was held back in the day. They set up my modest 90bhp Ibiza TDI into something pushing nearer 150bhp (same power as a turbo mk4 GTI or mk3 16v of the day) with modest outlay and had a far far far more satisfying power delivery.
Nowadays somewhere like Darkside Developmemts would be able to get huge power out of a GTD whilst keeping it very drivable and cost far less than a petrol GTI conversion.
4WD not necessary really, you launch a Diesel differently to a petrol, nothing much to be gained from revving high and side-stepping the clutch.
“Use the torque Luke” as Sir Alec once said. Feed in smoothly and boooost! Great fun if you learn how to drive them properly.
Hybrid turbo, modified emissions gizmos and relevant ECU mapping, slightly better intercooling, maybe a few exhaust mods (straight through pipe?), mk8 R brakes... shouldn’t be too bad cost wise.
Now where’s the catnip?
Haha feathering the throttle is something I know all too well. I've had a 350BHP fiesta ST that was bonkers and several other high powered FWD's. I did have 2015 Audi S3 that was pushing around 350-370 revo stage 1 - that was the only car where feathering the throttle was not needed for obvious reasons. Yes, the brakes are horrendous! They are so spongy when stopping from over 100mph and just feel weak, I'm waiting for demo tweeks to get the red stuff pads and EBC discs back in stock.
I have approached devil developments and they are apparently one of the best as many vouch for them. Also, the lad who does all the videos seems to be so straight to the point and honest about everything and quite funny tbh (loved the video where he compared the tuning boxes to a proper remap :grin:). The only dilemma I have is that an engine swap to a a GTI seems to be about the same price (minus the engine) as the diesel hybrid conversion to about 260-270bhp, when the GTI engine simply needs a remap to take it to around 300BHP ish. This is why I'm trying to weigh up the pros and cons. However, the power delivery on a hybrid TDI is apparently absurd even at 260-270BHP. I'm already getting about 5.0-5.1 0-60 with around 215-225BHP with a fully upgraded axel, semi-slicks, rear engine mount and a dry day with launch control. It's as quick as my mates standard S3 8V hatch all the way to the limiter at 150... I was so shocked as I thought he would leave me for dust, considering the 80BHP difference!!! I guess torque really is important. Which is another reason for going with devils hybrid turbo to 260bhp as that would probably spin in 4th with that torque :grin:
So if I was to hybrid turbo the GTD engine I may as well take it to 350-400BHP with an even bigger turbo like a garret to make the most of out the cost of upgrading it, but then I worry about reliability issues with it being a diesel at that power. When I had my S3 at 370BHP ish, I never had one issue and I used to drive it like I stole it and launch it 5-10 times a day everyday for about 9 months of ownership, which is another reason I would like to try the GTI engine as I'm told they're pretty reliable at the high power. Decisions, decisions and more decisions.
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I really don't understand, why would you want to change a GTD into a GTI? I can understand engine swaps to something that isn't available like an RS3 5 cylinder or something mad like a V8, but why to something that is readily available?
The OP did explain that in his opening post.........he's bored in lockdown....!!
:wink:
Good luck to him. That Alan Millward guy is always putting unfeasible bike engines into, well, bikes. Why? He obviously likes a challenge. He's very good at it as well...... The OP's plan seems to be evolving, possibly into a tuned 4WD GTD hatch....Hopefully he will post lots of pictures of whatever project happens...
The moment I find someone who will do the work (I'm talking to a few at the moment), I will record and document every moment. I will do 0-60's, fuel economy, dynamics of the car and defo, defo get a video launching against my friends S3. :grin:
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Good luck - I think you are nuts, but :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Hahaha that would not be the first time I've been called nuts!! :grin: :grin:
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I really don't understand, why would you want to change a GTD into a GTI? I can understand engine swaps to something that isn't available like an RS3 5 cylinder or something mad like a V8, but why to something that is readily available?
Funny you should say that the company I'm talking to at the moment has suggested an RS3 engine. However, I think if I chose that route I would want the four wheel drive and would probably just get a golf R for the RS3 engine. I simply just like to have something different to everyone else tbh, I always have to be doing something to my cars or I feel empty haha! I've got and always had the tuning bug haha :grin: Also, a guy I know has a 2JZ engine for sale which is something that I think about 24/7 haha. However, I would still like to keep the DSG and I'm not sure a 2JZ would be able to support that unless I had a whole box designed for me but that would probably cost 100K and I can only afford about 10-15k at a push
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A Golf GTD with the Bi-TDi engine from the Passat and 4WD is something I would have loved to have been able to buy back when diesel power was still popular.
Don't even know if it would fit, but just saying 🤷♂️
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A Golf GTD with the Bi-TDi engine from the Passat and 4WD is something I would have loved to have been able to buy back when diesel power was still popular.
Don't even know if it would fit, but just saying 🤷♂️
The car many of us wanted right back to the mk6 days!