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Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: david25 on 15 March 2020, 18:51
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Hello, any view on where used MK7 pricing is going in 2020 the MK8 launch and other worldly troubles we have right now?
I'm work on a budget and look for a car one full evolution old, early MK7s are now in budget, sure I would normally wait for actual MK8 GTIs to arrive, however now we have another much bigger factor, so I am definitely waiting to see.
Let's try and keep this on-topic to just car pricing.
Thanks
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Duplicate post.
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I seriously doubt you'll get a bargain attributable to Covid-19 going around.
I think it'll stifle new car buys, especially if people are strapped for cash because they're paying more for food thanks to stockpilers and profiteering. They'll keep hold of the car they've got and save their cash. During the start of the last recession, people were keeping hold of their cash and the car they had rather than changing - net result was used prices went up due to lack of availability for used cars. Only dropping VAT to 15%, seriously reducing BoE base rate and the scrappage scheme stimulated the new car market again.
People will still want to keep a car even if they're working from home more - they'd rather be driving when they have to go somewhere than sitting on a bus/metro/train with 50 other germ incubators.
Covid-19 is probably going to cause a drop in industrial output with workers self isolating at some point - fewer new cars being made, that'll drive used prices up if anything.
If you're buying, I'd buy now before factors above kick in for used car prices.
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Personally I would look for the right car and if you are happy with the deal, get it bought. Prices could go up or down but if they do I can't imagine the differences will be vast. Far more important is getting the best car for you. It is very easy to get drawn in to over thinking things sometimes (and I should know given the buggering about I did buying my current car :rolleyes:).
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I think it'll stifle new car buys, especially if people are strapped for cash because they're paying more for food thanks to stockpilers and profiteering. They'll keep hold of the car they've got and save their cash. During the start of the last recession, people were keeping hold of their cash and the car they had rather than changing - net result was used prices went up due to lack of availability for used cars. Only dropping VAT to 15%, seriously reducing BoE base rate and the scrappage scheme stimulated the new car market again.
Thanks, I wanted to check what happened in the last financial crisis of 2008. I'm happy to wait and see how things go using exactly your argument, I have something functional now, no desperate need to change.
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Vauxhall’s major UK manufacturing facilities are to close until March 27 as part of a Europe-wide shutdown by owner PSA Group due to coronavirus.
Carmakers including Fiat Chrysler, Peugeot, Volkswagen and its premium unit Audi are reducing production at their European plants as they grapple with the Coronavirus.
Like factories in the UK they do not have clarity on social-distancing rules in the workplace.
Audi said workers have downed tools over concerns about exposure to the virus while Fiat Chrysler said it was halting production for two weeks to help protect staff and adjust to decline in demand.
French carmaker PSA, which owns the Peugeot, Opel and Vauxhall brands, also said it was closing its European factories until March 27.
Ford said it was closing its plant in Valencia, Spain, for the rest of this week following a flurry of infections, and would reassess after talks with trade unions.
A spokeswoman said on Monday:
“We have had three positive cases of COVID-19 on the Valencia site in a 24-hour period, two of which involved more isolated workers who did not enter the assembly operations,”
Ford employees who had close contact with the affected workers are now in self-isolation. Ford adds:
“We will take all other appropriate steps to ensure that risk from this situation is minimised.”
Last week, some Spanish plants of the Renault-Nissan alliance and Volkswagen’s Spanish division Seat announced temporary stoppages that could last for days or weeks.
On Monday, Volkswagen’s Autoeuropa car assembly plant near Lisbon, Portugal, said it had reduced its daily output by 16% because of a shortage of workers after Portugal ordered all schools closed amid the coronavirus outbreak.
Volkswagen also said on Sunday it was preparing to suspend operations at its plant in Bratislava after Slovakia declared a state of emergency in response to the virus.
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I bought my Scirocco early in 2009 when the model was new and at the height of the financial crash. I tried to use the economic situation as a bargaining tool, but the dealer got a bit annoyed and said, everyone is using that one and would not give an inch.
As the Scirocco was new to market at the time it was interesting and in demand, so there was no need to do me any special favours. I suspect the same will hold true with the MK8, but this is all very different now with disrupted supply chains and dealers facing significant problems.
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I bought my Scirocco early in 2009 when the model was new and at the height of the financial crash. I tried to use the economic situation as a bargaining tool, but the dealer got a bit annoyed and said, everyone is using that one and would not give an inch.
As the Scirocco was new to market at the time it was interesting and in demand, so there was no need to do me any special favours. I suspect the same will hold true with the MK8, but this is all very different now with disrupted supply chains and dealers facing significant problems.
I also got a Scirocco, early 2009 - 140TDI GT in Pewter Grey. I got an exceptionally good deal on my 18 month old MK5 Golf GT Sport 170TDI because they were desperate for used stock to sell.
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I bought my Scirocco early in 2009 when the model was new and at the height of the financial crash. I tried to use the economic situation as a bargaining tool, but the dealer got a bit annoyed and said, everyone is using that one and would not give an inch.
As the Scirocco was new to market at the time it was interesting and in demand, so there was no need to do me any special favours. I suspect the same will hold true with the MK8, but this is all very different now with disrupted supply chains and dealers facing significant problems.
I also got a Scirocco, early 2009 - 140TDI GT in Pewter Grey. I got an exceptionally good deal on my 18 month old MK5 Golf GT Sport 170TDI because they were desperate for used stock to sell.
Yeah, I did not have a VW to PX, rather a Mazda RX/8 which they were not interested in and offered me silly money which I refused.
So managed to get a little discount off the new Roc, but considering the economic situation, it wasn’t a great deal. Still, proved to be a brilliant car which I have only recently sold in favour of my MK7.5!
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I was told that there were two good days to buy anything, yesterday as you had had the enjoyment of it for a day longer, and tomorrow as it would be cheaper/newer.
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I was told that there were two good days to buy anything, yesterday as you had had the enjoyment of it for a day longer, and tomorrow as it would be cheaper/newer.
So true!
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As the Scirocco was new to market at the time it was interesting and in demand, so there was no need to do me any special favours. I suspect the same will hold true with the MK8, but this is all very different now with disrupted supply chains and dealers facing significant problems.
The OP is referring to Mk7 prices not how much you might get a Mk8 for.
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If only they will still making Rocs...…. :(
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If only they will still making Rocs...…. :(
They are........T-Roc’s. :grin:
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Copied from PH forums
I think getting finance will be harder than we have ever seen before.
Speaking to my account manager at Lombard he asked if I wanted a 6 month payment holiday on my 5 series as I was asking for a settlement figure. Said would it be better to keep the £10000 in the bank at the moment.
All interest frozen.
I said what about if I give you £3 or 4k and do the agreement as straight repayment over 60 months instead.
£100 a month, won't notice that and only ever owe what I can afford to pay off.
He said that currently they are not starting new agreements, rates of 3-4% apr that I have been getting will be long gone, and going forward it looks like all new agreements will be done seeing the last set of accounts and they are talking about needing confirmation from your bank that you can meet affordability.
He said they are already in talks with the credit check agencies about making it much tighter.
He said balloon payments will be much lower, deposits will need to be far higher, interest rates higher and with the price of new cars now they are expecting a big shift in the market going forward as most will not be eligible for finance or simply won't want to be paying £800 a month for a car they had been paying £400 for last time.
Now obviously, they are in the middle of all this and he said it could be panic mode at the moment, but they have been bombarded with people wanting/needing to do something currently which has shown them just how vulnerable they and the customer are.
This of course may mean we see price drops from the manufacturers as they need to shift metal.
I would if we will see smaller ranges, less discounting but more realistic retail pricing?
The current model of artificial RRP pricing with 20% discount helps no one.
It pushes many cars into the higher tax brackets, it pushes BIK tax far higher than it needs to be, and it makes the depreciation look far, far higher than it really is as it is calculated based on what the real price should be.
Who knows where we will be after this? But finance will not be as easy as it has been for many.
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Depends on whether people get it into their thick heads about reducing transmission of the virus (I’m especially including world leaders here who are still using it for political games) and stop travel to get the world back on an even keel sooner rather than later.
The world is on pause.
Underwriters will knee jerk to try and minimise losses.
Governments will have to beg, borrow and steal trillions of dollars in the short term never mind longer term.
That’s the here and now.
Specifically looking at car finance, if we can get back some sort of normality in the shorter term before businesses fold left, right and centre putting even more pressure on financial institutions (thus finding themselves with near worthless properties, vehicles, machinery etc to dispose of) then I can see things like VAT decreasing in the short term like after the 2008 crash to help regenerate the economy along with continuing lowish interest rates.
If the institutions end up with a load of VT’s and repossessions on their hands they’ll want as much money back on those before they start encouraging people to buy yet more new cars on the never never if they actually apply a bit of common sense (less new cars being registered means higher demand and therefore higher values for used which could save millions in losses for finance companies lumbered with VT’s and repos).
Maybe a scrappage scheme again to encourage the manufacturing, possibly favouring smaller electric vehicles and discouraging polluting SUV’s (depending on political will).
If it drags on longer then we will all have to accept a post-war style “make do” mentality anyway.
Do we really need £1500+ iPads just to sit and look at Facebook and car forums? But the economy has to recover and that means there needs to be jobs and therefore consumer demand to create even more jobs. The wealth will have to gradually recover.
It’s all happened so fast the world was caught with its trousers down so its best guess at the most.
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interesting content as my responsible adults 59 plate TDI is getting long it the tooth and problematic and really hoped to replace it in the very near future with a 150 bhp TSI perhaps a R line .
plus another reason to add ,is she is using my GTI and I'm stuck in a Citroen c1 currently :sad: im sure when business resumes they will want to encourage fence sitters like me ?
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Car companies need to sell cars, and they will do so buy any means. If they need to offer cheap finance to do sell then they'll do it. Finance tied to car lowers the risk as long as there's a market for a nearly new, repossessed car and it is genuinely worth more than you owe at every stage of the PCP.
You can do that with requiring a 15% deposit down. Or perhaps we'll see a mentality change to that of most of Europe. They generally keep their cars longer than the UK does, and used prices don't fall off a cliff.
I do think this "bargain mentality" of jacking up the RRP of anything and then making a big discount available so you think you got a deal has to stop.
VW's price inflation for the last 2 years on the Golf has been crazy. £40k TCRs? The main cause has been attributed to an obligatory £3k exhaust upgrade that no-one would freely spec. The new price shoots up, and the GFV creeps down. Worst case scenario for VT dumped cars is that the dealerships get a little less greedy o their used car margins.
The likelihood of another Corona type outbreak in the next 20 years is extremely low. Last time we had something like this happen was the Spanish flu incident of 1917.
The only way you can make financial planning for this kind of perhaps once in a lifetime event is to make everyone compulsive savers who buy nothing on credit and have a minimum of 6 months wages in the bank so that they can sort themselves out when they miss out on pay - not going to happen. Modern economies run on credit - we've all seen how VW hate you being a cash buyer for their cars - everyone wants a cut of the interest incurred by the buyer.
No doubt about it, we'll all be facing a tax hike to pay for all of this when the spread has burnt out, but it won't be a short hard callback- we'll still need to have spare money to spend to keep the economy as a whole going - inc the retail sector.
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When all this is over,the country will be in a financial mess,I think we can all see that.
If you walked into a dealership with cash,I think you could negotiate a good deal,despite them preferring you to buy on credit-I think they will be glad just to shift cars and get something back in the coffers-well,that’s the way i’m thinking.
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Who knows what will happen.
As long as factories remain shut then no cars are actually being built, and as long as people are on furlough then they are also still being paid some or all of their wage.
Then there's the hundreds of billions of pounds the government printed to bail out businesses and individuals, which eventually leads to inflation.
In the credit crunch lots were out of work earning nowt, banks stopped lending and while there were some amazing deals initially they soon dried up, the government launched a scrappage scheme and prices went north again.
I don't know what's going to happen this time any more than anyone else, but I wouldn't bet my house that car prices will fall on a major scale or for a sustained period.
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Maybes they’ll drop just to kick start things,like you said,who knows?
It’s knowing when to strike,never liked dealing with car salesmen,most of them open their mouths and any old crap flies out.It’ll be no different when this covid ordeal has passed,they’ll have some spiel to feed customers.
That said,if you have cash and are prepared to see through the rhetoric and haggle,then surely that must put you in a stronger position.
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The days of lowish rate finance will now be over so manufacturers will either have to reduce them out give you some other incentive to buy.
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Purchased my new (pre-owned) car early March, not sure if that was a good move or not.
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Purchased my new (pre-owned) car early March, not sure if that was a good move or not.
Me too but I don't regret it. Intend to keep this one a good long time :smiley:
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If that’s what you drive underneath your post Watts,then there’ll not be many on here who’d regret making that decision.
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Well I tried to buy a 19 plate GTI 4 weeks ago, tried 3 dealers, none would move from the screen price by more than £200. The cars are still for sale and 2 of the salesmen have been ringing me (from home presumably) suggesting I put a deposit on the car to secure it for when the dealership re opens. When I put the spec, colour etc into autrader for the car I wanted 4 weeks ago it returned 24 cars, today it still returns 24 cars.
I go on car gurus and most of these cars have been on sale towards 70 days. I’m still planning on buying but not at 2 month older prices if that’s where we come out of it at
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When we come out of this, traditional rules may not apply (for a while at least....)
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Ashtons99-typical salesman waffle,hoping you’ll take the bait.
I’ve e-mailed a dealer,who has replied but surprisingly hasn’t rang me yet-but I know it’s imminent,along with ‘there’s not many left in that spec’-‘there’s loads of interest in that car’-‘two more are viewing this aft’-‘we’ll badly detail your car and throw in a bag of Autoglym products for a bargain £300’ etc,etc.
If £200 off is the best they’ll offer me,i’ll tell them to kiss my swingers.
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Well I tried to buy a 19 plate GTI 4 weeks ago, tried 3 dealers, none would move from the screen price by more than £200. The cars are still for sale and 2 of the salesmen have been ringing me (from home presumably) suggesting I put a deposit on the car to secure it for when the dealership re opens. When I put the spec, colour etc into autrader for the car I wanted 4 weeks ago it returned 24 cars, today it still returns 24 cars.
I go on car gurus and most of these cars have been on sale towards 70 days. I’m still planning on buying but not at 2 month older prices if that’s where we come out of it at
In my experience, once a dealer starts calling you, you're in a much stronger negotiating position. You can probably get away with making a fair but optimistic offer and leaving it on the table for them to consider, with the promise you'll complete the deal when life goes back to normal.
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If I was in the market for a used car I'd be going in with some very low offers.I doubt these dealers will be shifting anything in the next few months, and the one thing I'd be most certain about is that life will not return to normal for a very long time.
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When we come out of this, traditional rules may not apply (for a while at least....)
Too true. Supply and demand equilibrium can shift depending on the circumstances.
At the moment you've got key workers going to work or working from home. You've also got non key workers, some of which can fully do their job from home. Those people are on full pay and no worse off with COVID19 lockdown. In fact, some will be better off if they're saving on their commute costs by working from home.
You have others that are furloughed and may be waiting for their 80% pay off the government. Not sure what that situation is, how soon they get the money off the government, whether that's 80% of their gross or net pay etc. They might be a little worse off when they eventually get that money, but no commute costs.
Those cars should be depreciating to the tune of £250-300 per month, but with a performance MK8 still a way off, they might hold value if people are financially comfortable/confident and can't wait for the MK8.
On the other hand, we could see a bit of a dive in used prices if incentives are put in place to get us spending after all this is over and buying new looks a better proposition.
Right now, no one needs to go out and buy a car that the Government doesn't want you driving unnecessarily, and there's no-one in the showrooms to sell you it anyway.
We'll have to wait and see what consumer confidence is like at the end of this, and what incentives there'll be.
If you are PCPing and used prices drop substantially but there's good incentives on the new one, it might be a case of going to end of term on your PCP and handing back with no equity over GFV to grab that new bargain.
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The furloughed people on 80% get paid from the employer not directly from the government. Keeps everything on paye and the employer sorts everything out.
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Looking into the future when hopefully we’re getting back to normal,has anyone got any thoughts on what dealers might offer as incentives.
Obviously its all ifs,buts and maybes-I haven’t got a clue,but with the wealth of knowledge,experience and contacts people may have on here,what do people think?
So called experts on the internet give mixed opinions,as i’ve been in the market (used) for a while now,it’s something me and perhaps others are taking an interest in.
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Looking into the future when hopefully we’re getting back to normal,has anyone got any thoughts on what dealers might offer as incentives.
Obviously its all ifs,buts and maybes-I haven’t got a clue,but with the wealth of knowledge,experience and contacts people may have on here,what do people think?
So called experts on the internet give mixed opinions,as i’ve been in the market (used) for a while now,it’s something me and perhaps others are taking an interest in.
All you'll get are ifs, buts, maybes - until we're over all this and financial institutions make their intentions known.
Most people buying new or nearly new do so with borrowed money. VWFS will want people to keep buying cars via credit. VW will want people to keep buying cars on credit if they don't have the funds to buy outright.
Whether they'll try and ream more out of the UK market depends on a number of factors:-
How much money has COVID19 cost them? They'll look to get that back if they can.
How much extra money will the market bear, either through price rises or increased APR%? I would suggest not a lot! They could give you less for the same money - lowering the equipment spec.
If credit tightens up for the end user, we might see a big shift to leasing.
Most of the public that aren't self employed shouldn't be much worse off.
You're either working on full pay or furloughed on 80% pay.
You can't spend any money going to pubs, restaurants, cinemas etc. right now. What you can buy beyond food and drink is stifled a bit too - my wife has bought some clothes at George and Sainsburys rather than Next. Those not working have no commuting costs either. Mortgage rates pegged to the base rate have come down (about £30pm for me).
So for now, we can't spend what we,'ve got to the same extent. All that furloughed wage has to be paid for somehow, so I'd expect another 1 or 2% on PAYE or NI when we get back to normal, if it won't damage the economy too much to do so. Or the world sues China for being ultimately responsible for the knacker that caught this in the first place from eating a Bat (Ozzy Osbourne dodged a bullet all those years ago!).
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Yeah but,has he lost his mind,can he see,or is he blind?-Ozzy,that is!
Furloughed workers are still 20% down each month this goes on,your point on outgoings is a good one.
Even taking that into consideration,it’s hard to see it just carry on from where it left off.
I work for a conservatory company on the shop floor,I think we’ll be hit massively-who will want a Connie this year after what’s happened.
This is what i’m thinking about the car industry-will people want big ticket items,or will they wait?
If they do,it could be a buyers market.
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Yeah but,has he lost his mind,can he see,or is he blind?-Ozzy,that is!
Furloughed workers are still 20% down each month this goes on,your point on outgoings is a good one.
Even taking that into consideration,it’s hard to see it just carry on from where it left off.
I work for a conservatory company on the shop floor,I think we’ll be hit massively-who will want a Connie this year after what’s happened.
This is what i’m thinking about the car industry-will people want big ticket items,or will they wait?
If they do,it could be a buyers market.
You might find people wanting more conservatories than ever! People are probably in great appreciation of their gardens right now, as they're stuck within their boundaries. I've had a bit of garden appreciation lately - just bought and fitted a load of smart interlocking rubber tiles for the deck in my back garden and painted my back gate and fences to brighten it up out back.
For those that choose to put off buying a new car, if too many do it, the car companies will have to stimulate the market by offering incentives to entice the buyers back.
Just too early to tell yet, but unlike those people who lived their early years during the second World War and had it ingrained in them to save for everything, we're a bunch of people normalised to credit and have so far maybe had a month of hardship/restriction and probably another month to come of it. Look at Spain and Italy - still big numbers of new cases and deaths every day, but they're starting to send people back to work because civilisation needs to carry on and they have to keep the economy going.
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If they were open and you could walk into a dealership today,found a car you wanted and began to haggle,what percentage off could you realistically expect?-take the virus out of it for now.
Now,let’s say our current situation lasts another month (could be a lot longer I know) and you did the same then,what would you expect off then?
Any thoughts?
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Well, car makers have lost a huge pile of money which they might need to get back.
That either means they need to put prices up or down.
Additionally, vast numbers of people will be unemployed by the end of this but equally interest rates will be super low.
It's a strange situation, not like any before it and impossible to say which of those conflicting positions will play out.
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IMO
- Mk8 hasn't yet entered UK production, so there are no existing capital stock risks that normally forces VW to pre-reg existing stock and or push supply to dealers for purchase/pre-reg/
- VW will be revising targets to ensure minimal hit to share prices, and that will begin by them removing costs (less people in showrooms, amalgamated franchise branches etc etc). If less cars are being built then there's less need for parts etc.
- APR will go up on non luxury goods. Also the days of access to cheap credit are over and the financial markets/banks are already adjusting accordingly with MUCH stricter borrowing rules.
Nobody knows for sure how this will all play out, but VW (as all manufacturers) are sat on a huge stockpile of cars they have been (and continue to be) unable to sell. These will be their priority, but if the demand isn't there then they will go unsold.
Personally I think we'll see a huge delay in Golf 8's hitting the UK market, 7.5's will plateau earlier in the depreciation curve and values will bolster and reflect.
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Vw don't have stock. Every car is a factory order apart from the show room models dealers have but those aren't there to sell immediately. Anything vw want to sell needs to be ordered. No order, no sell.
I'm talking about new cars here, which is actually all vw itself sell. Das welt is just a vw UK backed scheme but the dealers themselves buy and sell vehicles.
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How realistic or unrealistic is it to expect 10-15% price drops when this is all over?
You might laugh,but that’s what i’ll be haggling towards-why not?
Obviously I won’t jump straight in,but so far i’ve got a list of 13 cars to enquire about,all same spec,similar mileage and im still looking-so if one fires me off,it’ll be on to next and so on.
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In normal times that sort of discount would be totally unrealistic off a used car.
Once all this is over my guess is that it will still be unrealistic. But that is just a guess. Nobody knows for sure.
Used cars also tend to have inflated APR's when taken on finance.
If you check out the broker discounts on brand new via the likes of Drive The Deal, that will give you some idea of how desperate the industry is to strike deals.
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New, a 10-15% discount is fairly commonplace. I managed around 22% off of mine through Drive the Deal when I bought it. I'm not a trader but I would expect that you would be lucky to get this off used... In the near term at least, especially if not taking finance. It would also depend on if you have a PX or are making a cash purchase. If there's a PX in the mix, you may get the discount but at the same time will be getting less for the PX so you would need to be looking at the total cost to change here rather than the price.
I would expect that there may be an adjustment period, but you may also find that there are a lot of people in financed new cars looking to reduce costs. In 2008/2009 as an example, used car sales as a percentage of total went up as opposed to down. There probably needs to be a trickle effect here, a dealer is unlikely to want to sell you a used car at a loss, however, if the price of stock coming into a dealer becomes cheaper then we might start to see a downward trend. You also have to wonder if franchised dealers will be getting any kind of support from the manufacturers to get through this. On the other hand, I may be completely wrong :smiley:.
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Guzzle,do you haggle?,if so what’s the best you’ve managed??
Would cash help or hinder?-it always works for Mike Brewer!
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How realistic or unrealistic is it to expect 10-15% price drops when this is all over?
The Das Welt screen price has about a 35-40% markup over the tradein/purchase price.
Some of this covers the fact that they are selling out of swanky dealerships which cost a fortune to run, plus I'd imagine there is a cut for VWUK for it to be sold under Das Welt with a VW UK warranty.
I'd say you'd be lucky to see them budge 5%.
Cash won't make any difference, they don't care about cash. Finance is where they make their money.
The trick you might want to see is if VW are offering any deposit contribution on Das Welt used cars on PCP. If they are, you can get that by taking PCP and exiting the deal in the first couple of days, paying the outstanding balance off with cash - assuming you have cash - and you get to keep the PCP contribution VW made.
If you need to finance it, you are better off steering well clear of VWFS offers on Das Welt - those are eye watering interest rates. Get yourself a cheap car loan from another lender - check out Money Saving Expert for the best rates.
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Cheers chaps,this is all good info/opinions.
TippEx,how do you mean adjustment period?
Fred,are you talking from experience regarding mark up or do you know someone in the trade?
If those figures were correct,5% would be a derisory offer.
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Fred,are you talking from experience regarding mark up or do you know someone in the trade?
If those figures were correct,5% would be a derisory offer.
I'm using reg plates from actual cars vs WBAC offers ;-)
That's not an outrageous gross margin, its fairly typical from a big main dealer because as I said there are costs - they don't get to trouser all of that plus there is VAT too!
Remember selling a new car is a nice quick financial transaction for them, a used car is a risk that they need to get a decent return on.
As such, I'd doubt you'd get them to budge more than 5%. Feel free to try though ;-)
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When I say adjustment period, I mean that a dealer isn't going to want to immediately sell a car that they have a lot of money in as a loss or a break even unless they really have to especially with the salesperson taking home a large percentage of their pay as commission. If it starts to become cheaper to get stock in after a period that's when you may see a price change.
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Cheers again chaps,know what you mean.
Just trying to gauge what people are thinking,at the end of the day none of us know.
There will be those who’ll be prepared to haggle and walk away and they’ll be those who don’t.
What’s the worst they can say?,when it looks like we’re starting to return to normal,i’ll throw a few lines out and see what happens.
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Once lockdown is resolved, and things slowly return to 'normal', you should start to see Brexit rear its head again.
The UK left the EU less than 3 months ago, but we're supposed to have negotiated a future trade deal with the EU by the end of the year. Governments around the world are a bit busy at the moment though, so you can pile on a bit more uncertainty.
It could be a while before we know what normal looks like.
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I think it's safe to say that the world has never been through anything quite like this before in our lifetime and anything in this thread my own opinions included would be an educated guess at most. I'm personally hoping that those in the motor trade and the many other businesses that have been adversely affected by this, some of whom are likely to be fellow forum members, manage to come out of this okay at the other side.
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Well, car makers have lost a huge pile of money which they might need to get back.
That either means they need to put prices up or down.
Additionally, vast numbers of people will be unemployed by the end of this but equally interest rates will be super low.
It's a strange situation, not like any before it and impossible to say which of those conflicting positions will play out.
I heard Vw are losing 1.6 billion a week in this situation :sad:
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I think it's safe to say that the world has never been through anything quite like this before in our lifetime and anything in this thread my own opinions included would be an educated guess at most. I'm personally hoping that those in the motor trade and the many other businesses that have been adversely affected by this, some of whom are likely to be fellow forum members, manage to come out of this okay at the other side.
Well said.
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I heard Vw are losing 1.6 billion a week in this situation :sad:
Story I posted up said 2bn euros a week...
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Couple of factories starting again from next week with most others starting up again from the week after.
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Couple of factories starting again from next week with most others starting up again from the week after.
Yep, there's only so far they'll.go on keeping the contraction rate and death rate down vs keeping the economy going. As more countries go back online, we'll be under greater pressure as a country to get back to work and "keep up" with those that have or will got society moving again shortly.
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OP requested keeping "on topic" to just car pricing. Not sure how that can be achieved, as it's all about the virus.
Economies may start moving again after 2 or 3 months of virtually no activity but the problem then is the very real prospect of a further surge in cases.
The billion dollar question is how many people have already had the virus? Around 100,000 recorded cases in UK to date. Assuming that's only 20% of actual cases, let's say 500,000 people have had it. That still leaves 60million people susceptible. It's very contagious. It carries on spreading until most people are immune.
I really can't see that governments who have almost completely shut down their economies for weeks on end are just going to stand by while their ICU departments are overwhelmed again. They will lockdown again.
Even if a second wave doesn't come and there isn't further lockdown, there remains significant threat of this. And that's hardly going to build consumer confidence.
The problem isn't going away until the whole world is vaccinated- experts say 18 months minimum to achieve this.
Dealers may not be desperate to sell stock now, but they soon will be. I don't know what sort of discount can be achieved, but if I was offered 5% off a used car, I wouldn't be interested.
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OP requested keeping "on topic" to just car pricing. Not sure how that can be achieved, as it's all about the virus.
Economies may start moving again after 2 or 3 months of virtually no activity but the problem then is the very real prospect of a further surge in cases.
The billion dollar question is how many people have already had the virus? Around 100,000 recorded cases in UK to date. Assuming that's only 20% of actual cases, let's say 500,000 people have had it. That still leaves 60million people susceptible. It's very contagious. It carries on spreading until most people are immune.
I really can't see that governments who have almost completely shut down their economies for weeks on end are just going to stand by while their ICU departments are overwhelmed again. They will lockdown again.
Even if a second wave doesn't come and there isn't further lockdown, there remains significant threat of this. And that's hardly going to build consumer confidence.
The problem isn't going away until the whole world is vaccinated- experts say 18 months minimum to achieve this.
Dealers may not be desperate to sell stock now, but they soon will be. I don't know what sort of discount can be achieved, but if I was offered 5% off a used car, I wouldn't be interested.
What kind of discount would you be looking for if 5% isn’t enough
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Just to give you some hard numbers here... My current gtd is worth about 14k trade. It would retail for about 18k. Of the 4k gross profit, 20% is vat, probably five hundred is the vw warranty package and you've got probably two man days of your rolled up labour costs. I'd guess there is net about fifteen percent margin. On that basis no sane business is going to want to give away more than five percent. This isn't about knocking some private seller down a few quid, this is retail business.
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OP requested keeping "on topic" to just car pricing. Not sure how that can be achieved, as it's all about the virus.
Economies may start moving again after 2 or 3 months of virtually no activity but the problem then is the very real prospect of a further surge in cases.
The billion dollar question is how many people have already had the virus? Around 100,000 recorded cases in UK to date. Assuming that's only 20% of actual cases, let's say 500,000 people have had it. That still leaves 60million people susceptible. It's very contagious. It carries on spreading until most people are immune.
I really can't see that governments who have almost completely shut down their economies for weeks on end are just going to stand by while their ICU departments are overwhelmed again. They will lockdown again.
Even if a second wave doesn't come and there isn't further lockdown, there remains significant threat of this. And that's hardly going to build consumer confidence.
The problem isn't going away until the whole world is vaccinated- experts say 18 months minimum to achieve this.
Dealers may not be desperate to sell stock now, but they soon will be. I don't know what sort of discount can be achieved, but if I was offered 5% off a used car, I wouldn't be interested.
What kind of discount would you be looking for if 5% isn’t enough
I could only really answer that question if I was in the market- which I'm not. The 10-15% mentioned above doesn't sound unreasonable to me.
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I’m with Yusee on this,I thought the average joe could go in and haggle 10%.
With the way things are unfolding,why would that not be unreasonable?
In fact,i’m gonna haggle for more,i’m just doing my research to try and establish the sweet spot between “can you please leave the showroom sir” and “sign here please”.
Whilst we don’t want to get bogged down with the virus on here,it is a massive factor in the discussion.
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Just to give you some hard numbers here... My current gtd is worth about 14k trade. It would retail for about 18k. Of the 4k gross profit, 20% is vat, probably five hundred is the vw warranty package and you've got probably two man days of your rolled up labour costs. I'd guess there is net about fifteen percent margin. On that basis no sane business is going to want to give away more than five percent. This isn't about knocking some private seller down a few quid, this is retail business.
So are they going to sit on their stock for over a year? They'll need some cashflow.
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If you want to score a bargain then either try some non vw dealer or find a private seller who is desperate... As I said, vw dealerships are proper businesses, usually group business, and have strict margins to adhere to like any sane business does...
They also have mechanisms to deal with stale stock. Don't imagine this is mickey mouse business.
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If you want to score a bargain then either try some non vw dealer or find a private seller who is desperate... As I said, vw dealerships are proper businesses, usually group business, and have strict margins to adhere to like any sane business does...
They also have mechanisms to deal with stale stock. Don't imagine this is mickey mouse business.
I'm sure you're right. I still wouldn't be interested at 5%.
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Fred,are you a current/ex vw employee?
Your posts are full of good,in-depth info-you post as though you know the trade well,I want to hear from people like yourself.
I am prepared to haggle,that’s not a problem for me,but I have no recent experience in how the trade currently operates,so I want as much info as I can get,so I can sort the wheat from the chaff.
My last experience with a dealer was for a Mk2 driver years ago,advertised in the local rag at one price,£800 more when I got there.It was a nightmare,ended up involving my Dad,who went ballistic,saying they were trying to con me,because I was young.Got there in the end,but it was a crap experience and it taught me a lot about doing your homework.
Nobody thinks Vw is a Micky mouse business,especially on here.
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No, I don't work anywhere near the motor trade, but i do work for an organisation which is very cost concious and works all of the numbers to ensure that profit margins are hit.
The idea that Tesco say buy baked beans ex factory at 20p and sell them at 50p means that they make 30p is the sort of cost accounting only possible for a simplistic business that fails to understand its true cost model and profit targets.
The only sort of people playing those simple calculations are really dumb small businesses, not one who's revenues are hundreds of millions of pounds.
Remember that while you see the VW logo on a stick outside of the showroom, those people are franchised dealers and most probably they are operated by a large group (Inchcape etc) and they certainly are not owned by VW. Beyond that you have "VW UK" which is a wholesale and marketing operation, VWFS which is a finance company and then you have VW gmbh itself, which is a manufacturer.
All of these people are switched on businesses, none are running a lemonade stall outside of their house.
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That isn’t gonna stop me trying to wring more than 5% out of them.
If they start with the overheads/margins spiel,I could say i’ve had no overtime for months,so my margins are reduced.
Joking of course-on your bean scenario,there’s an advert on telly at the moment,comparing bean prices.
Not that I want to stray off topic,but it’s examples like that,which reinforces my opinion that things are overpriced and there is room to manoeuvre.
The more I look into this,the more interested I become-large businesses are greedy.
I have already made my first mistake,I emailed a dealer and when he replied,I told him I was a cash buyer.
Lesson learnt,but only through doing a bit of research.
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I’m with Yusee on this,I thought the average joe could go in and haggle 10%.
With the way things are unfolding,why would that not be unreasonable?
In fact,i’m gonna haggle for more,i’m just doing my research to try and establish the sweet spot between “can you please leave the showroom sir” and “sign here please”.
Whilst we don’t want to get bogged down with the virus on here,it is a massive factor in the discussion.
10% on a 25k car is 2500quid not many dealers will entertain that unless they bought it cheap in the first place
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I realise getting a good deal is important but the best deal isn't necessarily the lowest price. Surely since this is for a s/h car where there are more variables than buying new, getting the right car is more important?
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Having searched for a long time for the right colour and specification I purchased a pre-owed Golf from Marshalls about the 18th March just as Covid-19 was starting to get really serious.
They offered me a fair price for my old car but suggested trying 'We Buy Any Car' in case I could get more, however the price to purchase would still be the same. Sold my car to WBAC for the same price as VW offered in the hope that would make a difference but they were fixed and wouldn't move.
My take is that once we resume some type of normality there won't be a great deal of price reduction although I accept this will be dependent on supply and demand. There may be a few extras thrown in to the deal and possibly service and maintenance benefits but not massive discounts unless you are not bothered about colour and specification.
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There's much less leeway for a used car than a new one.
Depending on whether a dealership group meet their volume sales and customer satisfaction targets, they can get a new car for up to 30% less than list price. They just need to sell it and have the overheads of the dealership, the sales people's time, reception, keeping the Flavia machine and Lotus Biscuits well stocked and a portion of the workshop's time for PDIs etc (and a few other factors I haven't considered). The new car coming in isn't depreciating until it is registered and considered used. If a car comes into stock without someone specifically ordering it, they can put off registering it until someone decides to buy (within reason).
Bring in a used car in p/x for maybe 65-75% of probable sticker price. It needs an MOT, the 2 front tyres are a bit low, needs new ones to appeal to buyer, it's out of warranty - £300+ to give a year inclusive warranty, one of the wheels is badly kerbed, replace it...and it's depreciating at a certain rate a month for all the time it doesn't sell. Plenty of opportunities to make a loss or a poor level of profit if the car hangs around.
You're far more likely to get a decent discount on a new VW than a used one, and a far better finance rate if you need finance. For me, it's not worth buying a nearly new VW for coppers less than you can buy a new one.
There's a fine line between a cheeky offer and an offensive piss-take price.
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I realise getting a good deal is important but the best deal isn't necessarily the lowest price. Surely since this is for a s/h car where there are more variables than buying new, getting the right car is more important?
When you've got a car as well equipped as standard as a Performance Golf, I do think you can afford to be less fussy so as not to seriously limit your options. Condition, colour, age - in that order. If you start adding "must have dynaudio" etc. in the mix, you'll find a very small pool of cars that fit your exacting requirements.
It's a bit more difficult when you must have a manual, seeing as VW are trying to take that option away.
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I’m with Yusee on this,I thought the average joe could go in and haggle 10%.
With the way things are unfolding,why would that not be unreasonable?
In fact,i’m gonna haggle for more,i’m just doing my research to try and establish the sweet spot between “can you please leave the showroom sir” and “sign here please”.
Whilst we don’t want to get bogged down with the virus on here,it is a massive factor in the discussion.
10% on a 25k car is 2500quid not many dealers will entertain that unless they bought it cheap in the first place
In 3-4-6-12 months things will be closer to normal.
If few dealers stop trading, prices will remain stable-ish.
If lots of dealer stop trading, prices will definitely not remain stable in the subsequent fire sale.
So, can they keep the cash flow running?
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Barry-or it’s been sat on the forecourt for months.In normal circumstances i’d agree.
Watts-without a doubt you want the right car,but what’s wrong with trying to get a good deal as well?
I see job sheets for rework jobs where I am,it sometimes reveals the original discount given to the customer which we aren’t supposed to see-some of them beggar belief,yet when it comes to wage rises,there’s nothing in the pot,despite hitting targets-we are considered the market leader in what we do.
Our problem is we’re too top heavy,is it the case with these large dealerships?
Timing will be key,when to stick,when to twist once this is over-cars weren’t exactly wheel spinning out the showrooms before the virus were they??
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Had thought of tryin to get rid of mine before the summer but all this talk. Means I will more than likely have to sit on it. It’s just too unpredictable
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What about this?-I take my current car to a local Vw specialist,who worked there for years before setting up on his own.
I was speaking to the owners Dad about changing the car and he told me to have a word with his son because he has a network of dealers he could talk to.
This has just come to me and I’m frustrated cause I spoke to the owner a few weeks back,I only have his works no and now they’re shut.
Has anybody done anything like this in the past and if so,was it worthwhile?
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What about this?-I take my current car to a local Vw specialist,who worked there for years before setting up on his own.
I was speaking to the owners Dad about changing the car and he told me to have a word with his son because he has a network of dealers he could talk to.
This has just come to me and I’m frustrated cause I spoke to the owner a few weeks back,I only have his works no and now they’re shut.
Has anybody done anything like this in the past and if so,was it worthwhile?
That’s just another way to put money in his sons pocket :grin
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Watts-without a doubt you want the right car,but what’s wrong with trying to get a good deal as well?
Nothing wrong with trying to get a good deal, my point is if you find the right car don't miss it just because the dealer won't budge a couple of hundred pounds. The enjoyment you'll get from having the right car is worth far more. The disappointment from getting the wrong car costs far more.
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Just got in touch with the vw specialist I mentioned earlier-can’t be arsed with Facebook,but luckily the missus can!
He tells me he still has contacts within vw,plus has access to a buying site,which he didn’t name so I presume is some sort of dealer only,dark web do dah.
He said he’d help me buy a car,so we’ll see what develops.
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Slightly off-topic but might be of interest...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-volkswagen-idUSKCN21X2V8
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Just got in touch with the vw specialist I mentioned earlier-can’t be arsed with Facebook,but luckily the missus can!
He tells me he still has contacts within vw,plus has access to a buying site,which he didn’t name so I presume is some sort of dealer only,dark web do dah.
He said he’d help me buy a car,so we’ll see what develops.
How much is he charging for the help
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I’ve dealt with him for years,but always bought my own cars,plus with the last 3 visits in particular,he must feel he owes me!
Although my current car is mint and well looked after (oil change every 5000,2 cambelt changes since i’ve had it etc),these recent visits and subsequent extortionate bills,have prompted a change.
He’s already asked me what I want for mine.
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Mutley,that’s relevant to what we’re discussing on here and it’s good for those after a used car,isn’t it-new car availability/used car prices?
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I’ve dealt with him for years,but always bought my own cars,plus with the last 3 visits in particular,he must feel he owes me!
Although my current car is mint and well looked after (oil change every 5000,2 cambelt changes since i’ve had it etc),these recent visits and subsequent extortionate bills,have prompted a change.
He’s already asked me what I want for mine.
I can't see him doing it for free or on your last visit he would have said next time you're cars in he would just charge for parts if he felt he owes you something
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Barry,if he helps get me the car i’m looking for at a decent price,then I doubt it’ll be for nothing.
He knows I’m a loyal customer tho,so maybes it’s in his best interest to help me-after all,he’ll do all the servicing,MOT,maintainance etc.
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I realise getting a good deal is important but the best deal isn't necessarily the lowest price. Surely since this is for a s/h car where there are more variables than buying new, getting the right car is more important?
It's a bit more difficult when you must have a manual, seeing as VW are trying to take that option away.
You say that. But the Mk8 has just been released with a manual and the GTI will be manual as standard. So not really taking it away.
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Barry,if he helps get me the car i’m looking for at a decent price,then I doubt it’ll be for nothing.
He knows I’m a loyal customer tho,so maybes it’s in his best interest to help me-after all,he’ll do all the servicing,MOT,maintainance etc.
It's never in a businesses best interest to do anything free so you could end up paying more that's all I'm saying
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Just seen that Govt are asking finance companies to offer 3 month delays on payments and fired a warning that they would expect there be no amending of the balloon payment to align with what will be a likely dip in car prices as everyone prioritises other items.
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Gov’ts around the world are treating all this like a massive Pause button has been pressed.
I think they’re hoping more of less normal service will be resumed once worldwide supply chains can be resumed as seamlessly as possible.
Obviously it’ll affect everything from buying new socks to building new houses.
The car market has also been hit with the pause button.
Nobody is building them, nobody can buy them.
Nobody is building the components either and the “just in time” supply chains aren’t running.
Without the components the manufacture of cars can’t recommence, without new cars being built then existing car prices are shored up (people need to travel), finance packages will have to be extended to cover the gap (no use expecting a car back at the end of a lease deal or PCP that can’t be collected or disposed of) so there’s no real reason for the motor industry to fall on its arse IF this is a short term thing.
If it’s longer term then it’ll be damage limitation for all and the billions upon billions being loaned out by the world bank to bail out whole countries galore will either have to end up with everything being ripped up and started again, or eternal debt repayments that’ll have to come out of taxes and higher interest rates.
Trouble is we are a society used to borrowing not saving and the strong economy was a result of spending not saving. The multi-millionaires running us will want that economy up and running again ASAP.
I’m sure Donald will currently be eyeing up suing China for enough money to permanently weaken and destabilise the state to settle old scores and I’m sure China will be well aware and devising their own strategy to destabilise Uncle Donald. Oh, hang on, maybe China got in there first?! :whistle:
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Getting a little macro here, this amount of turmoil inevitably leads to things getting a little heated, especially if the USA is likely to get knocked off of its pinnacle of global power. We've already seen what happened when that was happening slowly.... who knows what will happen when it happens rapidly.
I have a feeling that a little flu and some slopey down graph patterns for GDP might well be the least of our worries, let alone the price of second hand cars :laugh:
Still at least we've already learnt how to hoarde food and shelter in our houses... might well be a useful life skill.
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Just seen that Govt are asking finance companies to offer 3 month delays on payments and fired a warning that they would expect there be no amending of the balloon payment to align with what will be a likely dip in car prices as everyone prioritises other items.
Amending the balloon payment/GFV is a non-starter anyway. You can't force amended terms onto the consumer for a legally binding contract.
What may happen is that "equity" hook towards your next car will danish. You'll hand the keys back at 36/48 months with diddly squat to put down as deposit on the next one.
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Just seen that Govt are asking finance companies to offer 3 month delays on payments and fired a warning that they would expect there be no amending of the balloon payment to align with what will be a likely dip in car prices as everyone prioritises other items.
Amending the balloon payment/GFV is a non-starter anyway. You can't force amended terms onto the consumer for a legally binding contract.
What may happen is that "equity" hook towards your next car will danish. You'll hand the keys back at 36/48 months with diddly squat to put down as deposit on the next one.
The finance companies took a risk against a once in a lifetime event happening, and it happened, with so far unquantifiable effect. Expect lower GFV and higher monthlies on your next PCP'd car though!
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Been following a few 2019 GTIs over the past few weeks.
Prices have been frozen during this time.
However on checking today,i’ve noticed a few,not all have increased in price,some by £100 others a few hundred pounds.
Is this the start of what’s been covered on here,regarding the last crash/ scrappage scheme-where dealers increased prices to compensate the vat drop/£2000 trade in?
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Been following a few 2019 GTIs over the past few weeks.
Prices have been frozen during this time.
However on checking today,i’ve noticed a few,not all have increased in price,some by £100 others a few hundred pounds.
Is this the start of what’s been covered on here,regarding the last crash/ scrappage scheme-where dealers increased prices to compensate the vat drop/£2000 trade in?
There's been no word on a planned VAT cut or scrappage scheme, just suggestions by the xar industry as a means to get car sales moving again.
The dealerships with slight upward movement on their GTI prices are anticipating demand exceeding supply. They may be right, we know the hot MK8 Golfs won't be available for a while. Will people wait for a shiny new MK8, or will they be looking to treat themselves when lockdown is over (especially those not furloughed and no worse off).
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Ha-the exploitation of the common man,just like Xmas!
All the cars affected are basic spec pp GTIs,some not too far off 18 months old.
Perhaps they anticipate buyers expecting discount,so are adopting the ‘smoke and mirrors’ tactic.
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Or as Monkeyhanger said, simple demand and supply. When I changed my car I got a webuyanycar quote on my trade in so I had a reasonable idea of what to expect. As is usual with these things, I got regular reminders from them so just out of interest I got a couple of updated quotes and both times they offered more than before. If the dealers can sell their cars for more then they are getting their pricing right, after all, no-one is being forced to buy them.
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Been following a few 2019 GTIs over the past few weeks.
Prices have been frozen during this time.
However on checking today,i’ve noticed a few,not all have increased in price,some by £100 others a few hundred pounds.
Is this the start of what’s been covered on here,regarding the last crash/ scrappage scheme-where dealers increased prices to compensate the vat drop/£2000 trade in?
Just be patient, see the chart I posted in the MY20 Order thread.
An average GTI will not escape, sure it might only be down 5% versus January but in my view they are definitely not going up!
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posting for the first time since i purchased my mk3 16v anni via this forum 10yrs ago...she is on 199,940 miles & rising daily BUT
i am considering purchasing a mk7 facelift 19 plate, manual petrol from a not so local vw dealer that wont budge on the price at all, £7.5k deposit, 8.9% apr = £357 a month hire purchase
been an interesting read this thread & i think i may wait a few months longer & see how things pan out
cheers
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Ramrod,pick mine up today (6 hr train journey to Exeter)-they wouldn’t give me a penny off.
I asked if they would throw in rear mudflaps,which I would fit (I’d got the fronts off eBay)-told me no,because they would have to show it as a discount.
I would have waited,but the right car came along so I jumped.
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being a clubsport S owner i follow the prices they are fetching , they seem to have gone up by a good few thousand and have been selling quite well , it may be that there is nt many on the market atm , but who knows the future !
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posting for the first time since i purchased my mk3 16v anni via this forum 10yrs ago...she is on 199,940 miles & rising daily BUT
i am considering purchasing a mk7 facelift 19 plate, manual petrol from a not so local vw dealer that wont budge on the price at all, £7.5k deposit, 8.9% apr = £357 a month hire purchase
been an interesting read this thread & i think i may wait a few months longer & see how things pan out
cheers
you'd be better sorting your own finance out, it'll be much cheaper than 8.9%
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posting for the first time since i purchased my mk3 16v anni via this forum 10yrs ago...she is on 199,940 miles & rising daily BUT
i am considering purchasing a mk7 facelift 19 plate, manual petrol from a not so local vw dealer that wont budge on the price at all, £7.5k deposit, 8.9% apr = £357 a month hire purchase
been an interesting read this thread & i think i may wait a few months longer & see how things pan out
cheers
Do VWFS give a better APR rate for a used car less than 1 year old? If so, it might be cheaper on their PCP to go for a car just under a year old.
Are there any incentives with the car that come with finance?
I just got a 10.5 month old Audi A4. I have the readies to buy outright, but took the finance last Friday to score for 2 free services. On Tuesday I withdrew from the finance agreement. As the car is less than a year old VWFS offered me the "special" used rate of 6.9% APR. If VWFS do that for Audis, they probably do the same for VWs. Do a national used search, decide how far you're willing to travel for the right one and gauge national pricing for same/similar spec. If the one on your doorstep is £600 more than same spec 50 miles away, travel 50 miles or use it as leverage to haggle the local one down.
If there are no incentives from VWFS then get a bank loan at around 2.8 - 3% if you've got a decent credit rating (more chance of success with your own bank).
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Ramrod,pick mine up today (6 hr train journey to Exeter)-they wouldn’t give me a penny off.
I asked if they would throw in rear mudflaps,which I would fit (I’d got the fronts off eBay)-told me no,because they would have to show it as a discount.
I would have waited,but the right car came along so I jumped.
wow that is a bit stingy of them! hope the 6 hour train journey was worth it & you are loving the new car
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posting for the first time since i purchased my mk3 16v anni via this forum 10yrs ago...she is on 199,940 miles & rising daily BUT
i am considering purchasing a mk7 facelift 19 plate, manual petrol from a not so local vw dealer that wont budge on the price at all, £7.5k deposit, 8.9% apr = £357 a month hire purchase
been an interesting read this thread & i think i may wait a few months longer & see how things pan out
cheers
Do VWFS give a better APR rate for a used car less than 1 year old? If so, it might be cheaper on their PCP to go for a car just under a year old.
Are there any incentives with the car that come with finance?
I just got a 10.5 month old Audi A4. I have the readies to buy outright, but took the finance last Friday to score for 2 free services. On Tuesday I withdrew from the finance agreement. As the car is less than a year old VWFS offered me the "special" used rate of 6.9% APR. If VWFS do that for Audis, they probably do the same for VWs. Do a national used search, decide how far you're willing to travel for the right one and gauge national pricing for same/similar spec. If the one on your doorstep is £600 more than same spec 50 miles away, travel 50 miles or use it as leverage to haggle the local one down.
If there are no incentives from VWFS then get a bank loan at around 2.8 - 3% if you've got a decent credit rating (more chance of success with your own bank).
you & @mcmaddy are right, i never realised bank loan apr was so low! all the main vw dealer is offering me is 2 free services :(
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Ramrod,pick mine up today (6 hr train journey to Exeter)-they wouldn’t give me a penny off.
I asked if they would throw in rear mudflaps,which I would fit (I’d got the fronts off eBay)-told me no,because they would have to show it as a discount.
I would have waited,but the right car came along so I jumped.
wow that is a bit stingy of them! hope the 6 hour train journey was worth it & you are loving the new car
They know they don't need to discount when you're travelling 6 hours to the car. There's no way you're leaving without the car unless its not as described.
If you want to barter it's better to casually come and see the car (obviously harder to do unless you're a lot closer to the dealership that has it) and do the haggling in person. Tell them face to face that you'll put pen to paper there and then if the right deal is struck.
If you go in there with a "need" to buy that car, the dealer will offer you nowt because they don't need to discount to close the deal. They tried it on with me at the Audi garage. I rang up first thing in the morning, left a message with reception that I was interested in looking at car X and they said that the "very busy" sales team would ring me back.
They rang and I let the call go to voicemail. They said I had to call them urgently as an offer valid for 90 mins had been placed on the car. I waited until 4:30pm (end of my working day) and drove down to have a look. In the meantime they'd called me twice to chase up a viewing.
I had a look around the car in the lot and decided it was of interested. I then asked for one of the sales team to let me in for a discussion (COVID-19 - you could only be in by appointment).
We haggled and I left thinking I'd got a deal (you can always wonder if you could've squeezed harder).
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you & @mcmaddy are right, i never realised bank loan apr was so low! all the main vw dealer is offering me is 2 free services :(
2 free services vs a big interest saving.
If the car is under a year old and hasn't exceeded 10k miles, VWFS should sell you a 2 service pack for £299.
On the other hand, 8.9% APR is about £6k in interest on a £25k loan over 3 years. That could be £2k interest with a bank loan. However, the bank loan will have to cover the whole car whereas a PCP covers depreciation down to GFV in 3 or 4 years time.
To do the equivalent with the bank loan, get a 5 year vank loan for the amount you want to borrow and what you owe with 2 years left should be less than the GFV.
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Ramrod,pick mine up today (6 hr train journey to Exeter)-they wouldn’t give me a penny off.
I asked if they would throw in rear mudflaps,which I would fit (I’d got the fronts off eBay)-told me no,because they would have to show it as a discount.
I would have waited,but the right car came along so I jumped.
wow that is a bit stingy of them! hope the 6 hour train journey was worth it & you are loving the new car
They know they don't need to discount when you're travelling 6 hours to the car. There's no way you're leaving without the car unless its not as described.
If you want to barter it's better to casually come and see the car (obviously harder to do unless you're a lot closer to the dealership that has it) and do the haggling in person. Tell them face to face that you'll put pen to paper there and then if the right deal is struck.
If you go in there with a "need" to buy that car, the dealer will offer you nowt because they don't need to discount to close the deal. They tried it on with me at the Audi garage. I rang up first thing in the morning, left a message with reception that I was interested in looking at car X and they said that the "very busy" sales team would ring me back.
They rang and I let the call go to voicemail. They said I had to call them urgently as an offer valid for 90 mins had been placed on the car. I waited until 4:30pm (end of my working day) and drove down to have a look. In the meantime they'd called me twice to chase up a viewing.
I had a look around the car in the lot and decided it was of interested. I then asked for one of the sales team to let me in for a discussion (COVID-19 - you could only be in by appointment).
We haggled and I left thinking I'd got a deal (you can always wonder if you could've squeezed harder).
thanks for the advice, i shall take it onboard when handling the next main dealer. the car i want is 2 hours each way & i stupidly told the dealer this.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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you & @mcmaddy are right, i never realised bank loan apr was so low! all the main vw dealer is offering me is 2 free services :(
2 free services vs a big interest saving.
If the car is under a year old and hasn't exceeded 10k miles, VWFS should sell you a 2 service pack for £299.
On the other hand, 8.9% APR is about £6k in interest on a £25k loan over 3 years. That could be £2k interest with a bank loan. However, the bank loan will have to cover the whole car whereas a PCP covers depreciation down to GFV in 3 or 4 years time.
To do the equivalent with the bank loan, get a 5 year bank loan for the amount you want to borrow and what you owe with 2 years left should be less than the GFV.
£299 the cheeky sod :grin: the car is actually £2000 over book price too as it only has 5k on the clock
it is my intention to pay off the majority of the purchase price within the next 12-24 months & keep the car long term, the bank car loan quote i got this morning was 2.8% apr with repayments of £325/mth which is much better as the total interest is only £1600 too
thanks to this thread i am much better informed to make my mk7 purchase, thanks guys
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you & @mcmaddy are right, i never realised bank loan apr was so low! all the main vw dealer is offering me is 2 free services :(
2 free services vs a big interest saving.
If the car is under a year old and hasn't exceeded 10k miles, VWFS should sell you a 2 service pack for £299.
On the other hand, 8.9% APR is about £6k in interest on a £25k loan over 3 years. That could be £2k interest with a bank loan. However, the bank loan will have to cover the whole car whereas a PCP covers depreciation down to GFV in 3 or 4 years time.
To do the equivalent with the bank loan, get a 5 year bank loan for the amount you want to borrow and what you owe with 2 years left should be less than the GFV.
£299 the cheeky sod :grin: the car is actually £2000 over book price too as it only has 5k on the clock
it is my intention to pay off the majority of the purchase price within the next 12-24 months & keep the car long term, the bank car loan quote i got this morning was 2.8% apr with repayments of £325/mth which is much better as the total interest is only £1600 too
thanks to this thread i am much better informed to make my mk7 purchase, thanks guys
Have you done the deal yet?
£2k over book because it has 5k miles instead of 10k miles is way too much.
On PCP, what's the current rate for excess miles? about 8p a mile? You're paying 40p a mile for fewer miles. I woukdn't be paying more than 10p a mile for fewer miles - You should be paying £500 over book, not £2000.
If you haven't paid a deposit yet, I'd be walking away.
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you & @mcmaddy are right, i never realised bank loan apr was so low! all the main vw dealer is offering me is 2 free services :(
2 free services vs a big interest saving.
If the car is under a year old and hasn't exceeded 10k miles, VWFS should sell you a 2 service pack for £299.
On the other hand, 8.9% APR is about £6k in interest on a £25k loan over 3 years. That could be £2k interest with a bank loan. However, the bank loan will have to cover the whole car whereas a PCP covers depreciation down to GFV in 3 or 4 years time.
To do the equivalent with the bank loan, get a 5 year bank loan for the amount you want to borrow and what you owe with 2 years left should be less than the GFV.
£299 the cheeky sod :grin: the car is actually £2000 over book price too as it only has 5k on the clock
it is my intention to pay off the majority of the purchase price within the next 12-24 months & keep the car long term, the bank car loan quote i got this morning was 2.8% apr with repayments of £325/mth which is much better as the total interest is only £1600 too
thanks to this thread i am much better informed to make my mk7 purchase, thanks guys
Have you done the deal yet?
£2k over book because it has 5k miles instead of 10k miles is way too much.
On PCP, what's the current rate for excess miles? about 8p a mile? You're paying 40p a mile for fewer miles. I woukdn't be paying more than 10p a mile for fewer miles - You should be paying £500 over book, not £2000.
If you haven't paid a deposit yet, I'd be walking away.
no haven't done the deal & decided i am going to wait till maybe the new year to see how things stand then, im not "desperate" for a new car, i have my reliable mk3 16v anni that pulls like a train & never skips a beat & starts first time everytime...
ive never considered a PCP until now, been doing some research on them this morning, the balloon payment puts me off as does the fact there maybe no equity at the end of the contract
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PCP is designed for people to get into a brand new car every 3 years that they never own, but gives the option to buy it at the end of term.
It's expensive for what you get. Over the 36/48 month term, your typical Golf GTI is depreciating at an average of £300 a month. The car will be worth around 50% RRP at trade-in, at 36 months. So over the course of your PCP you're always paying interest on most of the car's value. Taking into account any deposit + monthlies, you're averaging closer to £500 a month. At least a third of what you are paying out is interest.
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Except if you bought your GTI on 0% APR :wink:
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Except if you bought your GTI on 0% APR :wink:
Yes and no. 0% finance offered was a good thing, but the prices have been jacked right up recently and dropped the GFVs. They give with one hand and take with the other.
It's like going to DFS and finding out the sofa you shortlisted has doubled in price but there's a 40% off sale.
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Prices are not unexpectedly all over the place at the moment. I find that WBAC is usually a good barometer of what to expect as a starting point p/ex price. Around 3 weeks ago I was offered £18,050 by WBAC for my low mileage/ good spec 2018 GTI pp - a week later they upped this £19,525! I'm not thinking of selling - just wanted an idea of the current value in a likely volatile market. Needless to say I was disappointed with the first offer, but the revised offer seemed more reasonable. This is perhaps a reflection of a potential shortage of good low miles in demand cars in the system due to recent events.
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There seems to be quite a bit of pent up demand at the moment. The big question is though how long it will last as furlough and other state backed stimuli are scaled back.
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Ramrod,pick mine up today (6 hr train journey to Exeter)-they wouldn’t give me a penny off.
I asked if they would throw in rear mudflaps,which I would fit (I’d got the fronts off eBay)-told me no,because they would have to show it as a discount.
I would have waited,but the right car came along so I jumped.
VW Exeter is my local dealer (clue in username!) and they are not the best for deals normally. They’re a big dealership serving a geographically large area and don’t have to fight for business. They have a rapid turnover of stock.
Newton Abbot VW just down the road are generally much better to deal with being a family owned independent.
Cars are never cheap down this way due to being stuck out on a peninsula meaning people have to travel a long way to visit the competition.
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There seems to be quite a bit of pent up demand at the moment. The big question is though how long it will last as furlough and other state backed stimuli are scaled back.
^^ this. You’ll have to wait until furlough scheme comes to an end in October before seeing a buyers market.
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A trawl through VW used 5 door GTI 245s using a 200 mile radius of Perth seems to produce mainly high spec, low mileage cars in black, white, red and blue. No Indium Grey!
Leaves me with the impression there are many ex VW and ex dealer demo cars in the 30-odd being offered and not much else if my deduction based on the above is correct.
I don’t think this adds to the debate but thought I would connect with you all in my idle moments .... :nerd:
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There seems to be quite a bit of pent up demand at the moment. The big question is though how long it will last as furlough and other state backed stimuli are scaled back.
^^ this. You’ll have to wait until furlough scheme comes to an end in October before seeing a buyers market.
Yes, quite. It will be interesting to see how many people are made redundant over the next few months. While there was outcry at the lack of social distancing on Bournemouth beach this week, I couldn't help but notice just how many people weren't at work on a Thursday.
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There seems to be quite a bit of pent up demand at the moment. The big question is though how long it will last as furlough and other state backed stimuli are scaled back.
^^ this. You’ll have to wait until furlough scheme comes to an end in October before seeing a buyers market.
Some people seem to be wanting to get out and spend now lockdown is easing after being deprived of retail avenues for 12 weeks apart from Internet orders.
Getting your freedom back with a new motor is appealing to a lot of people in the short term.
I think I mentioned before about the price of many things shooting up during lockdown - including the price of Dogs.
Anyone who's in a situation where they're furloughed by a company where redundancy is coming would be nuts to splash out on a financed car.
If you've got something to trade in then that p/x value is on the up too. The likes of Chris (mcmaddy) might want to find out if the part ex against their imminent new car has appreciated beyond the p/x price offered. Might be worth dropping a line to WBAC and Motorway.co.uk to see if selling separately can bag you some more money.
I don't think it will last, when some of those still on furlough find out there won't be a job at the end of it, they might look to cut back. You'll find that some people who've been working from home during lockdown may continue to do so as it's beneficial to the company if productivity hasn't suffered. Those kinds of people might be looking to offload one of the household cars, not get a newer one.
The hospitality sector is about to reopen, but customer numbers allowed to sit in pubs and restaurants will be greatly reduced. They'll have to put their prices up to compensate. If they put them up to the point that people decide to stay away (at least during the Summer when a barbecue and cool bottles from the fridge with some mates is far more enticing than paying £15 for a pub meal that used to cost a tenner and a £5 pint that used to be £3.50), there'll be a lot of people losing their jobs.
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Its inevitable- widespread job losses. And there’s no sign the problem is going away for a very long time.
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and a £5 pint that used to be £3.50
I haven't seen £5 pints around here for a very long time :rolleyes:
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and a £5 pint that used to be £3.50
I haven't seen £5 pints around here for a very long time :rolleyes:
I was paying £3.30 - £3.40 before lockdown. I’m anticipating paying closer to £4.00 when my local re-opens.
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and a £5 pint that used to be £3.50
I haven't seen £5 pints around here for a very long time :rolleyes:
Depends heavily on location I suppose. I'm 5 mins walk from a Sam Smiths pub (it's got a bit of an old man's social club vibe about it) where the strong-ish lager is (was?) £2.20 a pint. Around North Shields it's generally £3 - £3.60 for the premium lagers like San Miguel, Kronenbourg etc.
It's easy to pay £5 a pint in some of the more pretentious bars of Newcastle City centre and Tynemouth. My dad lives in Southampton it's over £4 a pint at the Royal British Legion.
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I was paying £3.30 - £3.40 before lockdown. I’m anticipating paying closer to £4.00 when my local re-opens.
It's been best part of £6 a pint here for some time, disgraceful. One of the reasons I enjoy my northern holidays, cheaper and better beer :smiley:
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Its inevitable- widespread job losses. And there’s no sign the problem is going away for a very long time.
Lots of bad news numbers
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53060529
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Its inevitable- widespread job losses. And there’s no sign the problem is going away for a very long time.
Lots of bad news numbers
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53060529
Kayleigh Rennix doesn't sound too bright - who resigns from their job fearing that their job is at risk?
Unless you hate your job to the point it's affecting your wellbeing, you apply for other stuff and wait to be paid your notice of you're sacked or made redundant.
I changed jobs March 16th after seeing out a 3 month notice period. The new place is great. I've only actually seen all my colleagues on the first 2 days. Everyone has been working from home since. I pop into the office once a week to file docs and scan anything anyone needs. We've stayed busy as a Pharma company - people will always get sick and need drugs.
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posting for the first time since i purchased my mk3 16v anni via this forum 10yrs ago...she is on 199,940 miles & rising daily BUT
i am considering purchasing a mk7 facelift 19 plate, manual petrol from a not so local vw dealer that wont budge on the price at all, £7.5k deposit, 8.9% apr = £357 a month hire purchase
Could you not get a new GTI for that kind of money?
They are still doing 0% finance for PCP
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With my PCP due to finish at the end of the year I'd been keeping an eye on prices.
Early March I checked WBAC compared to my early settlement figure and I had just under £3000 equity to put into a new car.
I was hoping the MK8 R would at least be unveiled before I did anything but alas its not.
I checked WBAC yesterday compared to my early settlement figure and it now looks like I have just £450 equity from my current R.
Its plummeted £2500 in 4 months!!!
At this rate I would be as well just handing the keys back to VW come December and walking away.
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Its very difficult at the moment, the auctions are full of backlogs of exPCP and lease vehicles. Absolutely rammed.
So nobody is offering good prices until that clears.
I have also been told that equally demand for used cars with a retail price sub 5000 quid is REALLY high.
If you've got a SUV though, nobody wants it.
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With my PCP due to finish at the end of the year I'd been keeping an eye on prices.
Early March I checked WBAC compared to my early settlement figure and I had just under £3000 equity to put into a new car.
I was hoping the MK8 R would at least be unveiled before I did anything but alas its not.
I checked WBAC yesterday compared to my early settlement figure and it now looks like I have just £450 equity from my current R.
Its plummeted £2500 in 4 months!!!
At this rate I would be as well just handing the keys back to VW come December and walking away.
I wouldn't be going off WBAC prices. They are offering people well below correct values as they know some people will be desperate to sell due to job losses etc.
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wouldn't be going off WBAC prices. They are offering people well below correct values as they know some people will be desperate to sell due to job losses etc.
Fair point.
I was just using them as that was the original buying agent I'd tried.
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wouldn't be going off WBAC prices. They are offering people well below correct values as they know some people will be desperate to sell due to job losses etc.
Fair point.
I was just using them as that was the original buying agent I'd tried.
I know a couple of dealers that might offer more if that’s your plan in selling rather than handing it back to dealer :smiley:
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Could try motorway.co.uk too👍
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^ Did you make enquiries Chris? Just wondering if they could offer more than your p/x price.
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I didn't look to be honest Matt, and to be fair without knowing when the new one is going to arrive I couldn't be chewed of the hassle of trying to work out dates to sell etc. Probably have a check when the TCR is in the country next Julember.
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I didn't look to be honest Matt, and to be fair without knowing when the new one is going to arrive I couldn't be chewed of the hassle of trying to work out dates to sell etc. Probably have a check when the TCR is in the country next Julember.
If you weren't sure yours had already been built, I'd say they were waiting to build you a MK8 GTI.
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:sick: :sick: :grin:
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next Julember.
:grin:
funny but totally ridiculous at the same time.
"When will my 40 grand vehicle arrive?"
"No idea mate"
Tempted to go through with cancelling it? Or would there suddenly be some contract terms against it?
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I didn't look to be honest Matt, and to be fair without knowing when the new one is going to arrive I couldn't be chewed of the hassle of trying to work out dates to sell etc. Probably have a check when the TCR is in the country next Julember.
If you weren't sure yours had already been built, I'd say they were waiting to build you a MK8 GTI.
Or at least dealer demonstrators mk8 GTI will be on the same boat
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next Julember.
:grin:
funny but totally ridiculous at the same time.
"When will my 40 grand vehicle arrive?"
"No idea mate"
Tempted to go through with cancelling it? Or would there suddenly be some contract terms against it?
I'm still tempted but then I'd be cutting my nose off to spite my face :grin:. VW UK have told me today that is actually port of tynes fault as they are only allowing one vehicle carrier into port at a time. Girl didn't know what to say when I told her that two vehicle carriers were in the port together last week. Besides, Port of Tyne website says they are fully open for business. VW just treat customers with utter contempt.
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wouldn't be going off WBAC prices. They are offering people well below correct values as they know some people will be desperate to sell due to job losses etc.
Fair point.
I was just using them as that was the original buying agent I'd tried.
I know a couple of dealers that might offer more if that’s your plan in selling rather than handing it back to dealer :smiley:
Thats a possibility. I'll keep that in mind cheers.
Could try motorway.co.uk too👍
Yeah they were not bad actually. £500 more. Are they a decent outfit I've never heard of them?
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wouldn't be going off WBAC prices. They are offering people well below correct values as they know some people will be desperate to sell due to job losses etc.
Fair point.
I was just using them as that was the original buying agent I'd tried.
I know a couple of dealers that might offer more if that’s your plan in selling rather than handing it back to dealer :smiley:
Thats a possibility. I'll keep that in mind cheers.
Could try motorway.co.uk too👍
Yeah they were not bad actually. £500 more. Are they a decent outfit I've never heard of them?
I actually only found them by accident when trying to sell my brothers qushqai. They were 1200 more than WBAC.
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Interestingly WBAC have emailed me saying my valuation has just went up by £1400!!
How does that work?
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Interestingly WBAC have emailed me saying my valuation has just went up by £1400!!
How does that work?
they've obviously stopped the pi44 taking then 😂. How does that compare to motorway?
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Interestingly WBAC have emailed me saying my valuation has just went up by £1400!!
How does that work?
I had the same last year with a Toyota Aygo I bought to save putting miles on my Clubsport. In summer of last year the value was around £3300 then in January this year I ran a valuation purely out of interest and it was 4895. I was up early the next morning cleaning the thing and I sold it a few hours later for 4450 so they definitely adjust their prices based on retail supply and demand to a greater extent than main dealers.
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Interestingly WBAC have emailed me saying my valuation has just went up by £1400!!
How does that work?
That’s to get you in there door and they know if your there a few quid off for marks and stuff will probably not bother as your already there
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From personal experience and observation I contend that WBAC is the most cynical and manipulative business operating in the motor trade arena.
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So.......here we are on 1 July 20. Any thoughts on when orders might open for the Mk8 GTI? And delivery?
Just trying to breathe life into the forum.....
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So.......here we are on 1 July 20. Any thoughts on when orders might open for the Mk8 GTI? And delivery?
Just trying to breathe life into the forum.....
Well with people still waiting on a 7.5 can’t see the mk8 landing anytime soon
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So.......here we are on 1 July 20. Any thoughts on when orders might open for the Mk8 GTI? And delivery?
Just trying to breathe life into the forum.....
I was told it could be ordered in September by a salesman this week. He didn't know for definite but he was told there was a good chance it was September.
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Interestingly WBAC have emailed me saying my valuation has just went up by £1400!!
How does that work?
they've obviously stopped the pi44 taking then 😂. How does that compare to motorway?
WBAC beat motorway by £50.
With Motorway the quotes are set out a bit like gocompare but with mine it just says all the individual dealers then next to it "Valuation unavailable". I wonder if it doesn't actually cover Scotland.
I totally forgot my car has the 4 year manufacturers warranty from new :rolleyes: so I might appeal more to an individual.
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WBAC online price quotes don't have any relation to what they will actually pay. It's all a game.
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Interestingly I got another email from WBAC saying my valuation had went up again.
I wonder if the market is starting to improve?
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WBAC online price quotes don't have any relation to what they will actually pay. It's all a game.
I always use WBAC to gauge my cars. On the last 5 I’ve traded in the WBAC figure has been within £500 of the dealer offer
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WBAC online price quotes don't have any relation to what they will actually pay. It's all a game.
I always use WBAC to gauge my cars. On the last 5 I’ve traded in the WBAC figure has been within £500 of the dealer offer
The important note here is that you gauge the "in theory" valuation you get online from WBAC, not the actual value offered when they've looked at it and decided to knock you down £200 for 3 tiny stone chips on a 3 year old car etc.
Out of interest I got a valuation for my Polo GTI+ and it came in at £14500. I was offered £15k elsewhere - not a gell of a lot in it if they didn't keep chipping you down once inspected. When "Tootle" was around, the dealers on there were offering significantly more money than Motorway or WBAC.
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My direct neighbour is the lead VW salesman at the local Driftbridge dealer, and last night he brought home a MK8 for the first time. It was in cooking spec and my god it’s dull but that’s a different story! I asked him about the MK8 GTI timelines and he said he was expecting orders to open “later in QTR3 with deliveries very early Q2 2021.
I asked about the TCR and he looked blankly at me stating there was no news on that and he didn’t expect anything like that until well into 2021. The TCR name hasn’t even been confirmed for the UK at all. He said it would be GTI then R, then a higher power GTI of some sort.
:smiley:
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My direct neighbour is the lead VW salesman at the local Driftbridge dealer, and last night he brought home a MK8 for the first time. It was in cooking spec and my god it’s dull but that’s a different story! I asked him about the MK8 GTI timelines and he said he was expecting orders to open “later in QTR3 with deliveries very early Q2 2021.
I asked about the TCR and he looked blankly at me stating there was no news on that and he didn’t expect anything like that until well into 2021. The TCR name hasn’t even been confirmed for the UK at all. He said it would be GTI then R, then a higher power GTI of some sort.
:smiley:
I think you misunderstood. He said Chris (McMaddy)'s TCR wouldn't be here until 2021.
My neighbour borrowed a MK8 the other day, really don't like that thin and pointy front end with the squinty headlights.
Here it is:-
(https://i.ibb.co/C6fM5Q0/20200708-182143.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YXxy7hj)
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It gets even worse, VW have decided to send city of Rotterdam to Grimsby instead of Tyne so at this rate it could be 2021 :grin:
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It gets even worse, VW have decided to send city of Rotterdam to Grimsby instead of Tyne so at this rate it could be 2021 :grin:
Could it be going to Grimsby and Tyne in the 1 trip?
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Yes looks like it. Rotterdam is going to Grimsby and then direct to Tyne. Petersburg is Tyne and then direct to Grimsby.