GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Thedude74 on 28 January 2020, 10:34
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Hi all
Pulled out of a junction in Eco mode at the weekend and there was quite a delay in throttle response.
Are the pedal boxes a worth while mod and what impact does it have on day to day driving ? Not looking to race away from traffic lights every time !
Thanks
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Try getting your car out of eco mode first - the throttle response is dulled tremendously by being in eco mode.
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Eco mode - not advised. Will get you a few extra miles to the gallon but christ it makes the GTI a bit dull.
Get it set up in Individual, I have no reason to use any other mode. The throttle response on the latest 7.5 is perfectly fine for everyday use.
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Eco mode doesn't give you anything.
It turns off the cornering lights and dynamic curve lighting, sets the aircon to minimum, sets the throttle map to meh.
It probably saves VW a few CO2's in the NEDC test, but you'd be lucky to see a tenner back on 20k miles pa.
While you get sluggish response, burn or freeze and can't see the curbs that your expensive cornering lighting system is meant to show you when turning in...
Don't touch that button :D
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Thanks for the replies - coming from an M135i I must admit I didn’t buy this car for economy but given that the car is new I am just playing around with all the settings as there are so many more options than what was on the beemer!
I didn’t realize that eco mode affected the lights etc so for sure I’ll stay away from that!
Thanks for the tip :smiley:
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Eco mode doesn't give you anything.
It turns off the cornering lights and dynamic curve lighting, sets the aircon to minimum, sets the throttle map to meh.
It probably saves VW a few CO2's in the NEDC test, but you'd be lucky to see a tenner back on 20k miles pa.
While you get sluggish response, burn or freeze and can't see the curbs that your expensive cornering lighting system is meant to show you when turning in...
Don't touch that button :D
note to self - check to see if my missus has cornering lights turned off in her car because she has a problem of not being able to see curbs!! :grin:
…..and she wonders why I won't put her on my insurance!! :rolleyes:
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I can’t speak for the Mk7 but I have a 7.5 DSG and had a pedal box for a brief while before sending it back.
IMO it wasn’t needed and definitely wasn’t worth the £200 price tag. I much prefer driving in D and then flicking the lever for S when I need to get somewhere in a hurry.
I just feel like the 7.5 throttle response doesn’t need any improvements.
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The 7 didn't need it either but hundreds of you all still bought the pointless box :whistle: :grin:
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Think I will keep it as factory for now and keep in Normal and forget Eco as I have to say Eco kills the throttle response . It’s not as bad as the M135i tho - Eco mode was an utter pointless option!
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Back in a previous life, a much younger version of me was once dragged to an agricultural show.
I have little recollection of the event other than a brief moment where I happened to be in close proximity to the hind quarters of a shire horse being led out of a large tent where it had been moored.
Staring up at the hairy footed beast’s derrière (through fate as opposed to choice) admiring how tall it was I was treated to an impromptu display as the beast’s tail swished and a huge fountain of greeny poop was ejected, landing in a large mushy pile in front of me. To this day it’s one of the smelliest most putrid things I’ve had the pleasure of encountering.
Eco mode is similarly a gloopy mound of green turd.
A pedalbox however isn’t “worthwhile“.
More of an “essential”.
One of those rare items that delivers unexpectedly positive things.
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Back in a previous life, a much younger version of me was once dragged to an agricultural show.
I have little recollection of the event other than a brief moment where I happened to be in close proximity to the hind quarters of a shire horse being led out of a large tent where it had been moored.
Staring up at the hairy footed beast’s derrière (through fate as opposed to choice) admiring how tall it was I was treated to an impromptu display as the beast’s tail swished and a huge fountain of greeny poop was ejected, landing in a large mushy pile in front of me. To this day it’s one of the smelliest most putrid things I’ve had the pleasure of encountering.
Eco mode is similarly a gloopy mound of green turd.
A pedalbox however isn’t “worthwhile“.
More of an “essential”.
One of those rare items that delivers unexpectedly positive things.
^ :grin:
Have you got a pedal box fitted to the TCR?
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I fitted a pedal box to my 7.5 for exactly the reasons mentioned in the first post, except I always drive in individual mode with engine response set to sport. And I still found throttle response hideous. The pedal box has improved throttle response markedly - taking out the dead spot on initial input and slushy delayed responses to my right foot input. I notice no adverse effects in any type of driving - city or hwy. No noticeable impact on fuel economy, either.
Some will say a pedal box isn't needed, some will say it is essential. All that proves is that people have varying preferences. Not that their particular opinion is right and others are wrong. If you think the car needs better response, then yes, a pedal box will help enormously.
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A perfect summary Splashalot. ^^^^
Have you got a pedal box fitted to the TCR?
Funnily enough I do. :smiley:
I still have my 2013 Pedalbox that’s been fitted to all my mk7’s, however I’m not 100% sure it works as well on the TCR as it did with the earlier cars due to old software or maybe it’s just the DSG dumbing it down a bit.
The TCR is the only mk7 so far I’ve driven where the Pedalbox didn’t feel absolutely essential due to improved factory accelerator pedal response but it’s still far from feeling as responsive as I’d like at low throttle openings which is detrimental to enjoyment so I still deem the Pedalbox desireable.
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I haven’t made too much use of mine... It’s the + model. Happy to be PM’d offers...
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I'd say so yes. I initially thought it was turbo lag I was experiencing. Having read up on these forums it was a no brainer to purchase one. I have mine set to 'city -2' and the dead inch of pedal has gone and the car responds relly quickly to my throttle inputs.
Another way to describe the car with it switched off is like a laggy online game. No such issues in my previous MK7 Fiesta ST.
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I would really like see a census on opinions for pedal boxes.
1. Manual box - yes, get one
2. Manual box - no, don't bother.
3. DSG6 - yes, get one
4. DSG6 - no, don't bother
5. DSG7 - yes, get one
6. DSG7 - no, don't bother
Could someone put a poll in if they have the knowhow?
Looking at posts over the years on the subject, it does seem more of the DSG owners think they benefit greatly from having one.
The way DSG slips clutches and feathers changes in for comfort and smoothness in all situations except launch control, I do wonder whether poor pedal response is attributed to that and the decision time DSG takes for changing down or staying with the gear it's already in, rather than throttle pedal being dull. Either that or people sticking the car in eco mode and expecting sport/race mode pedal response (as a recent poster in eco mode asked about pedalboxes).
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Looking at posts over the years on the subject, it does seem more of the DSG owners think they benefit greatly from having one.
The way DSG slips clutches and feathers changes in for comfort and smoothness in all situations except launch control, I do wonder whether poor pedal response is attributed to that and the decision time DSG takes for changing down or staying with the gear it's already in, rather than throttle pedal being dull. Either that or people sticking the car in eco mode and expecting sport/race mode pedal response (as a recent poster in eco mode asked about pedalboxes).
Poll would be a good idea.
FWIW mine is a manual. So was my 7.5 Trendline. Both fitted with (the same) pedal box and both exhibited drastically improved throttle response. Both driven with engine/throttle (can't remember what the setting is called now) set to "Sport".
I can't comment on any possibly related DSG jiggery-pokery which may affect throttle response, but with a manual transmission it has a clear and obvious positive effect.
I'd also like to see a poll on whether those who say a pedal box isn't needed or a useless waste of money have driven one. Not discounting their opinions, as we all have our preferences, but just whether they are valid.
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The 7 didn't need it either but hundreds of you all still bought the pointless box :whistle: :grin:
So I assume you've driven a 7 or 7.5 with pedal box to make such a statement? :rolleyes: :whistle: :whistle: :rolleyes:
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It's all subjective - so many people like spending their money on different things - for some, they insist that DSG is the only way to drive (not much of a choice any more), some will insist that Dynaudio is a must have while also trying to increase the ambient engine noise to drown it out, for others, DCC is a no brainer. Each and every option out there has a for and against argument.
For me, I think it's daft to put your car in Eco mode (dulling the throttle greatly vs Sport mode) and then deciding they need a pedal box because of it.
Eco mode is crap and pointless . The fuel gains are negligible. You get the coasting mode, but unless you're going down that perfect hill whereby momentum gains just about cancel out frictional losses, you pick up speed and dab the brake and coasting mode stops.
For me, Eco and Normal modes are the cause of dull throttle response. I find Sport more than adequate for progressive throttle without giving you so much at the bottom end when pulling away from a standstill with 2WD and a ton of tramping.
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Yes agree a Eco mode is pointless and was only used given the car is new and I was playing with all the available options.
Now that I have had the car for a couple of weeks I don’t feel the need for a pedal box - the sport mode is fine for everyday mixed driving needs.
This is my 3rd GTI (including a big bumper mk2 way back in the day) and feels like the best so far however still adjusting to the engine noise compared to the V6 3ltr beemer that has just gone...
Glorious engine but the M135i V GTI 7.5 is a whole different debate !
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Actually very light segue, and something I've never quite figured out. If you have a DSG transmission, and set your driving mode profile to "individual" and engine to "Sport", you can see the gearbox move to "S" mode. If you keep it at that, turn off the engine then re-start it, the gearbox defaults back to "D" mode. So does that mean even if you have "Sport" selected in the driving mode profile, that it resets the engine map back to "normal"? Or do you still have the "Sport" map for the engine active, but just the gearbox defaults back to normal.
I honestly can't be 100% certain either way ?
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Engine (and throttle response) is in Sport mode still, but gearbox changing thresholds revert to D on every ignition cycle.
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I would really like see a census on opinions for pedal boxes.
1. Manual box - yes, get one
2. Manual box - no, don't bother.
3. DSG6 - yes, get one
4. DSG6 - no, don't bother
5. DSG7 - yes, get one
6. DSG7 - no, don't bother
Could someone put a poll in if they have the knowhow?
Looking at posts over the years on the subject, it does seem more of the DSG owners think they benefit greatly from having one.
The way DSG slips clutches and feathers changes in for comfort and smoothness in all situations except launch control, I do wonder whether poor pedal response is attributed to that and the decision time DSG takes for changing down or staying with the gear it's already in, rather than throttle pedal being dull. Either that or people sticking the car in eco mode and expecting sport/race mode pedal response (as a recent poster in eco mode asked about pedalboxes).
I could put the poll up no bother but I think a lot of people have moved on from here over the years so it’ll be skewed.
By chance I had a notification of a “like” on VWROC very recently for a post I put up some years ago regarding pedalboxes which came as a bit of a surprise as I rarely venture over into those pastures these days. (Obviously a new member researching.)
One of dozens of posts I’ve put up about the things over the years and I’ve long since run out of different ways of describing how they work and what they do to remove the inch thick layer of porridge programmed into the accelerator pedal electronics. Just goes to show the debate still rages and I’ve lost count of the amount of times I’ve told myself just to stop repeating the same old.
Well, six and a bit years on I’ve now moved to DSG and will still echo your thoughts on it Matt, but I can safely say that the annoying lag is even more evident with the irritating DSG clutch slipping so the pedal box comes into its own just as much as a manual. A Pedalbox with a firm but gentle prod when pulling away in D does alleviate some of the clutch slip by telling the gearbox you want a firm but positive move instead of an impression of reluctantly getting out of bed on a Monday morning.
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My thoughts for the poll were maybe that this huge problem (for some) of dead pedal was perhaps a combination of multiple things - e.g.Turbo lag (presumed to be more prevalent on an R with bigger turbo than GTI), the feathering in of DSG, and maybe people rolling around in anything less than Sport/Race mode.
I've never felt that the pedal response was leggy on any of my VWs (but I have never put them in Nornal or Eco). I do find great umbrage with the DSG feathering, especially when pulling away from a standstill. Like the GTD, my Polo GTI+ has no LSD, so I'm always wary of tramping (which is easy to do in either car). With the DSG though, that feathering in/clutch slip does give a delay in moving rather than the positive bite of a manual clutch, so at times you end up giving more gas, upping the torque, and when that feathering in gives way to positive bite, you end up tramping.
You can get it perfect and shoot off remarkably quick without tramping, but usually it is through letting go of the foot brake with no throttle about 1/2 a second before you want to move and when you get that positive bite, you then hit the accelerator. It takes some practice to get it right - to anticipate when you want the car to move and delay prodding the throttle.
So I was theorizing that maybe putting the throttle on a hair trigger helps compensate some of the wait attributable to turbo lag and DSG feathering.
If that were the case, I'd expect DSG Rs to be most in need of a pedal box and Manual GTIs to be in least need of one - if they're not contributing to dead pedal by running Normal/Eco.
This feathering in of the DSG demonstrates to me that DSG isn't incredibly robust next to a manual box (supposedly handles greater torque that would cook a manual clutch), but is good at self preservation, with the ability to ease those gear changes in and maybe ease up/change down to prevent too much torque going through it. The DSG box seems to avoid letting you put your foot down in 4th at 60mph to capitalise on its torque, and will always look to kick down in that situation.
This is probably why you supposedly only have 200 goes at launch control - no feathering of the clutches into 1st from a standstill or subsequent up shifts being brutal on the DSG box.
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Just a thought on the DSG lack of initial response. Rather than taking your foot off the brake a moment before when you want to go, couldn't you give the throttle a light press whilst holding it on the brakes so it's primed and ready to go? I used to do this with my Audi which had the Multitronic (CVT) gearbox and hesitated on pulling away :rolleyes:
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MH - the Pedalbox doesn’t necessarily mean a hair trigger.
For those old enough to remember, a 205 GTI had hair-trigger throttle pedals (that was half their fun but could be jerky in traffic).
The K-jetronic mk2 Golf GTI’s had great throttle response without being too eager on the take up, whereas the much bemoaned Digifant was supposedly more efficient yet felt like the air flap was connected to a brick!
The Simos in the late mk3’s resolved the dead responses but by that time it was too late for the humble non turbo GTI’s as they’d been strangled in other ways and the world had moved on.
A Pedalbox can make a mk7 like a 205GTI but most have it set up to be more like K-jet rather than Digifant.
Watts - the DSG removes any tactile manual interaction between human and machine replacing it with a digital interface. Like any digital thing, it’s only as clever as the programming so it’s the human that has to adapt. Some willingly bow to all its idiosyncrasies and some less so.
One has to work around the programming or at least dig deeper to look for the clever ways the developers have worked real world usability into a limited interface. A firm prod on the go-pedal wakes it up as to your intentions removing the need for Sport mode even if you have to feather the brake afterwards. Handy for junctions, fast roundabouts and even overtaking so long as you show it your anticipation and intention as opposed to it staying in lazy mode.
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May be old hat, but I do enjoy these pedal box threads- and I may still get one at some stage.
The poor initial throttle response was the one slightly disappointing thing about my manual 7.5 when I first bought it. It has bothered me less the more I've driven, I think because I have adapted my driving.
Throttle response is actually excellent- so long as your foot is already a little way down- and you can almost always anticipate situations when you need this - and the initial response is perfectly good for most of the driving I do, which is steady moving commuter traffic. I also wonder whether the dulled initial response makes it easier to drive in slow/crawling traffic- I don't have to constantly declutch and coast as I do in the 205! I could be wrong.
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I felt the Mk 7 manual needed one, but the 7.5 PP DSG is definitely improved and i don't feel the need to get one.
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There are some interesting things in this thread - one bunch of people saying the DSG is like a dead badger and others saying, no its the manual that's like 4 day old roadkill.
I'm guessing that for most its not actually an issue at all?
If you think its the DSG that is the problem, has nobody thought of the DSG software upgrade? I know its been out there for some time now, but not seen anyone say that they have had it done??
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BTW here is the poll some people asked for: https://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=286173.0
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Just googled pedal box. Glad my Mk6 manual GTi has a great pedal response. That's the thing I was worried about most after having a Passat loan car in 2012. Dam that felt dangerous, as did a loaned 06 Vectra. Always had cable pedals until now.
I put a Sprint Booster on my mk6 GTI’s as they also had too much pedal lag for my liking :whistle:
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Had my Remus one for about three years and wouldn't be without it. The wife struggles with it after driving her car and moving to mine. I dial it right down for her and the MOT and any work done as I have it on the Sport+++ setting
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Engine (and throttle response) is in Sport mode still, but gearbox changing thresholds revert to D on every ignition cycle.
Isn’t that engine protection for cold starts? It tries to save you from high-revs and holding a higher gear while the engine is cold.
Somebody will correct me if I’m wrong...
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Engine (and throttle response) is in Sport mode still, but gearbox changing thresholds revert to D on every ignition cycle.
Isn’t that engine protection for cold starts? It tries to save you from high-revs and holding a higher gear while the engine is cold.
Somebody will correct me if I’m wrong...
Not sure about that - on my Polo GTI+, for the first 2 miles, the DSG gearbox in D mode seems to hold lower gears a little longer than it does when warm - seemingly to help the car warm up quickly.
It's most likely a fuel saving measure to default to D, just as stop-start reactivation every ignition cycle is.
Engine output is limited by ECU programming while cold, and has been on Golfs since the introduction of the MK7. There's your protection.