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Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: scanesare on 04 September 2018, 13:10
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https://www.carthrottle.com/post/the-next-vw-golf-wont-have-estate-or-3dr-options/ (https://www.carthrottle.com/post/the-next-vw-golf-wont-have-estate-or-3dr-options/)
Till yesterday I thought my next car was going to be either a MK8 R wagon (especially if looks improved a bit compared to the current model) or a Cupra 4Drive Estate (I already like that shape better but the new Cupra badge is :sick:).
Hmm, I guess it now has to be a Tiguan R (release sometime in 2019?) . Have to say I like that much better than an R wagon. More "natural" looks and I would never take any of them to the track (unless for a couple of fun laps maybe) anyway.
I think UK buyers will cry (there's a huge soft spot for wagons over there it seems)
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The "no more 3 door" thing has been banging around for some time... no more Golf estates doesn't surprise me either.
Why not buy a SUV or the Passat estate instead?
Albeit that I'd even question the purpose of the Passat any more - those "rep mobile" cars are really dying a death, partly because when it comes to "large family car" the transit vans with windows have been a better option and partly because the idea of a company car is long gone, both because of (UK) tax reasons and that in this day and age you don't sell products by sending a salesman to a customer... Engineers usually use vans, sales are done by phone, webex, email or website...
Obviously it would be a bold move by VW, but I think we all know its coming.
Personally, I think SUV's should be banned - extra weight (=extra pollution) and for no real extra benefit. the trend for SUV's are why the UK's CO2 figures are shooting up.... and its easy to see why!
I'd put a 1.5 tonne limit on domestic vehicles, with only (true) commercial vehicles allowed to exceed it... and then bring down the weight limit over time. Would do more to fix pollution than anything else!
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Personally, I think SUV's should be banned - extra weight (=extra pollution) and for no real extra benefit. the trend for SUV's are why the UK's CO2 figures are shooting up.... and its easy to see why!
I'd put a 1.5 tonne limit on domestic vehicles, with only (true) commercial vehicles allowed to exceed it... and then bring down the weight limit over time. Would do more to fix pollution than anything else!
Really? So you'd take away the option for someone that prefers a larger vehicle with its elevated driving position, space, comfort and towing ability? These vehicles are already subject to VED at a higher rate to dissuade people from having them, but some prefer pay the extra to have what they enjoy, whether they need it or not.
I have had my Amarok for about 18 months now. We bought a Golf 7 a few weeks after it, but never gelled with it, despite having a 6 before it, both of us preferring to drive the Amarok. The Golf has gone now and been replaced with a Tiguan, which does just about everything that a family car could be asked of.
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SUVs do my nut in.
Headlights directly at your eye level? Check.
Impossible to see through? Check.
Lethal to smaller cars? Check.
More cargo space than other vehicles? Ummm... sometimes.
Also, why as a driver do you need 'more space'? Unless you're driving a kei car, there's sod-all difference. You have to sit a fixed distance from the pedals anyway. It's all a bullsh*t arms race. The people who 'prefer the elevated driving position' are just putting those who prefer otherwise in more danger.
And why do they all seem to be occupied by one person?! I thought they were for 'families'?
/rant.
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SUVs do my nut in.
Yup, me too.
A proper 4x4 (think Landcruiser or Range Rover or G-Wagon) is bigger internally, but these bloody things now are just bigger exteriors on standard cars. A T-Roc is a Golf in a heavy suit, that Nissan Duke thing is just a Micra in a sumo outfit etc etc.
Its just pollution and consumption for style and with where we are supposed to be moving to is away from this nonsense. If we don't, then all cars will end up being banned by the tree huggers,
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I'll concede the headlight height thing.
Why are you following so close that you need to see through the car in front?
Vehicles of any size can be lethal. It's the operator that decides whether it should cause harm to others or not.
Some have more cargo space than others, but that's not the main reason people have them.
More space is not required. I design houses and can't understand why people need large bedrooms. You only occupy a small part of it, but large bedrooms are what some people prefer. And as for an elevated driving position putting others in danger, I refer you to my 3rd point in response to your questions.
They often are occupied by one person. I'm sure that you don't have all of your family in your car for every journey. But on the odd occasion when you do need to carry a few passengers, it's nice to be comfortable.
If I were to meet you, it's quite probable that I would take an instant dislike to you, but I wouldn't mention it, I would just walk away and let you be you.
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PS if my weight limit banned caravans as a result.... I'd not shed a tear!
:D
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Caravans or large trailers don't cause the long queues. It's the incompetent drivers following too closely behind to be able to see the safe opportunities to overtake, or leave insufficient room for those further back to be able to pull into to overtake them that are the problem.
Jeez, it'll be cyclists riding 2 abreast next.
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I have been skeptical about all this SUV trend for a while too. However, when you're faced with the need to carry more people and stuff more comfortably, your choice is either those or an estate. In my eyes at least, there is no other more un-natural shape of a car than an estate. In the majority of cases it is a car out of proportions. Something which you can easily see that was designed to be something else (a hatchback or a sedan), and had only a couple of its dimensions altered (thus ruining proportions) to simply be more practical, an after-thought. An SUV just looks more coherent.
By the way, factory equipped LED/Xenon headlights with self-adjustment never blinded anyone. It's usually people that do their own cheapo conversions that drive you crazy at night.
And there's hardly that much weight difference between an SUV and the equivalent estate, isn't it? Almost the same weight difference between a FWD and AWD Golf, hardly the stuff that kills people on the road.
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So ban SUVs? :rolleyes:
Do you know what SUVs contribute to sales for lots of manufacturers? The likes of Porsche wouldn't be still making cars like the GT4, GTS, GT2 and GT3 if it wasn't for the revenue contribution from the Cayenne.
There is only one growing car segment in the Uk. Guess what it is? Yes, SUVs.
Like them or not, they are the future for most people. As for estates, a nice estate is actually far better than an SUV. All the room without the extra weight. I'd take an RS4 or RS6 Avant over the SQ7 any day of the week.
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I like an estate car too and had 2 Passat variants when we had all the small children clobber to lug around. I think that in most forms, the Passat looks much better than its saloon derivative. The same came be said for most Audis.
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Definitely agree with the Audi estate thing. They always look ace! Also love the C/E-63 estates.
I am obviously being quite dramatic with my comments, but there is definitely truth in them. Would definitely opt for an estate over an SUV any day!
Also, I was given a Juke as a hire car last week, and not only did it have less space than my Golf, but it also had a brilliant little turbo engine which was absolutely ruined by the bloody thing being on stilts. Why put a sport mode on something which can't take a corner without rolling over?!
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Jeez, it'll be cyclists riding 2 abreast next.
It's OK, the SUV's and caravans sort them out in a Darwin type action...
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I clearly don't get out enough as I can't see most of the stated issues with SUVs being a problem. They serve a practical purpose for some and an aesthetic one for others, nothing wrong in that. Most estate cars aren't seven seaters either which makes a difference these days. Gone are the days when you could buy a big saloon and shove as many kids as you wanted in the back seats. Probably a good thing though. As for estate styling, just like any car, some look bad and some look good. I loved my early 90s Audi 100 Avant (no, it's not an estate, it's an Avant :wink:) and thought it better looking than the saloon equivilant. The A4 B6/7 was also a great looking "estate" although I had a saloon and loved that too.
And the loss of 3dr and estate Golfs in the MK8 is a shame, I really like a 3dr but perhaps I won't be a MK8 customer anyway.
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My hatred for SUV's is purely about the excessive (needless) weight and subsequent pollution arising...
Although I will say that if you have enough children to warrant a minibus you probably are also contributing to the downfall of mankind in other ways too!
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My hatred for SUV's is purely about the excessive (needless) weight and subsequent pollution arising...
Although I will say that if you have enough children to warrant a minibus you probably are also contributing to the downfall of mankind in other ways too!
Out of interest I just compared the weights of similarly specced Audis, an A4 quattro 2.0 tdi s tronic and the same spec Q5. The A4 was 1615kg and the Q5 1695kg. So not a vast amount in it. I didn't look at the emission figures as that might look like I had even more excess time on my hands and no life at all :rolleyes:
When we were looking around for our next car which led to the GTI, we sat in a Q7 just for sh!ts and giggles. My OH in the driving seat, me right at the back. It was massive, like being in a bus. I was (not seriously) tempted to get it for her just to see her face driving it (current car is a Lupo and she thinks my Golf is too big to drive.....) :laugh:
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On the subject of (most) SUVs, where's the spare wheel then?! You buy a car the size of a tennis court and still get a can of chuffing glue.
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My hatred for SUV's is purely about the excessive (needless) weight and subsequent pollution arising...
I think lorries, buses, old black cabs etc would be better place to start your hatred Fred. Most SUVs probably aren't adding any more solution than most regular cars.
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My hatred for SUV's is purely about the excessive (needless) weight and subsequent pollution arising...
I think lorries, buses, old black cabs etc would be better place to start your hatred Fred. Most SUVs probably aren't adding any more solution than most regular cars.
Ok to illustrate my point:
T-Roc 1.5tsi DSG R-Line - 124g/km co2
Golf 1.5tsi DSG R-Line - 114g/km co2
Now 10 grams here and 10 there isn't much but if you scale that up.... its a 9% increase in co2 output.
I'd say that was fairly conservative across the lot too.
A "car shaped" car has a lower drag coefficient than a house brick - the increased height results in increased frontal area, which is more drag.
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Starting from the very first stage of the build process, over a 10 year period an Tesla Model X will consume 17% more C02 than a Porsche Macan S. It's not all about g/km.
Having said that, how many people actually buy cars based on emissions? Between 4 and 5% of people poled. Fedgroves, what do you drive and why did you choose it?
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Ok to illustrate my point:
T-Roc 1.5tsi DSG R-Line - 124g/km co2
Golf 1.5tsi DSG R-Line - 114g/km co2
Now 10 grams here and 10 there isn't much but if you scale that up.... its a 9% increase in co2 output.
Careful now, most of us on here drive cars with unnecessarily high co2 figures. You'll have us all in VW up!s before you know it.....
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My point isn't that some people chose a vehicle with more co2.... its that when the bulk of the population chose to abandon a more efficient design in favour of a less efficient one, the knock on effect is a considerable rise in co2.
If everyone was to come here, listen to us loving performance Golfs and buy one, that would be bad too!
But that's not true, most chose a "sensible" engine, which should be low pollution, except now the SUV wave is having a dramatic overall effect.
Here you go:
https://www.transportenvironment.org/newsroom/blog/rise-uk-car-co2-emissions-largely-result-increasing-suv-sales-not-declining-diesel
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SUVs are also a nuisance on the road. Can't see round then, can't see through them (unless of course you're in an SUV yourself) and they park too close to you in car parks. Nothing against those who genuinely need one such as farmers though.
And as an aside, Merc 'G' drivers really do get my goat with their aggressive driving - seem to have overtaken Audi estate drivers.
Sorry, rant over (for now...)
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Who needs an SUV anyway?
(https://s6.postimg.cc/y7fo98bg1/overloaded-motorcycle-9.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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SUVs are also a nuisance on the road. Can't see round then, can't see through them (unless of course you're in an SUV yourself) and they park too close to you in car parks.
Can you see through a Golf with privacy glass? That's besides the point. Why do you need to see through it? And if you can't see round it, you're following too close you knob cheese. I won't park too close to you in a car park, I'll be at the far end, miles from anyone else.
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Thank you for your polite response drubber. I don't follow too close to anyone. I'm talking about approaching junctions, roundabouts etc. where you have said SUV to your right. They restrict the view of other traffic, cyclists etc. Also, in queues of traffic they restrict your view ahead, lights.
By the tone of your response, sounds like you're not that bothered about looking out for others though anyway. Don't have happen to drive a Merc 'G' do you?
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No. as I said earlier, I drive an Amarok considerately and have a Tiguan as the runabout car. Oh, and a little Golf GTI for the odd spirited drive.
If you can't see past the vehicle to your side at a junction, wait until it's moved out of the way. You might have to wait a bit longer, but so what? Does it really matter? If you're are in a queue of traffic at the lights behind a larger vehicle, you don't really need to see if the lights have gone green or not. You can't go anywhere until he has moved anyway.
Keep em coming. I can keep this up all day.
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Love to pal, but some of us have work to do
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Who needs an SUV anyway?
(https://s6.postimg.cc/y7fo98bg1/overloaded-motorcycle-9.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Awesome picture :laugh:
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Love to pal, but some of us have work to do
Yeah, good point. I need to earn some money for my next £105 fill up :grin:
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Watts - :grin: Seen that scenario in Bali and Mayalsia!
I tend to find most proper haters of SUVs are people who would never afford a luxury SUV in first place. Not saying that's true for anyone on here but to be so extreme in points of view, there's normally something deeper behind it. And concern for the environment doesn't count when you are posting on performance hatch site or you'd be posting in the Toyota Prius forum!
It's a segment that accounts for a huge amount of sales and includes many types and sizes of vehicle. I don't have any problems with them. I borrowed a Jag F Pace 3.0d recently and was hugely impressed. Very little body roll, effortless pace, very responsive throttle (no need to modify with a pedal box!), great visibility and plenty of room. And best of all, didn't feel like driving an SUV.
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I won't park too close to you in a car park, I'll be at the far end, miles from anyone else.
...the only place you could find two spaces to fit it into? At least you won't scratch my Golf by trying to jam it in next to me and then have your kids open the doors into my car...
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The only time I need 2 spaces is when they are in tandem because I have a trailer on the back. People needn't worry about getting their doors dinged or scratched by my lot. And as for me scratching another car when I'm parking, my truck has the same paint as your Golf, so I'd quite like it not damaged either. Big mirrors, a camera and sensors make the job a cinch.
I like cars, which is why I'm found on car forums, so my kids have been taught from a very early age how to get in and out of a car. If a space is a bit tight, everyone gets out before it gets parked. The reverse applies when getting back in. It's a shame the vast majority of people in all sorts of cars don't use the same common sense.
Next.
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Dub - this 'next' business makes you look like you're taking this all very personally. I'm sure nobody is saying that you're a bad driver. I'm sure you're great - you're on a car enthusiasts message board after all.
What is being said though, is that yes - there are bad drivers everywhere... but bad drivers in large vehicles compared to bad drivers in small vehicles are two very different things. A badly parked Fiesta is annoying, but a badly parked Range Rover is fu**ing infuriating! If I get T-boned by a A-Class, I'm going to have a bad day. If I get T-boned by a Qashqai it might be my last day.
It's not personal.
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Dub - this 'next' business makes you look like you're taking this all very personally. I'm sure nobody is saying that you're a bad driver. I'm sure you're great - you're on a car enthusiasts message board after all.
What is being said though, is that yes - there are bad drivers everywhere... but bad drivers in large vehicles compared to bad drivers in small vehicles are two very different things. A badly parked Fiesta is annoying, but a badly parked Range Rover is fu**ing infuriating! If I get T-boned by a A-Class, I'm going to have a bad day. If I get T-boned by a Qashqai it might be my last day.
It's not personal.
This whole weight argument must be a joke right? It must have been a long time since you checked weight figures. An average petrol Qashqai is below 1400kg, that's similar or even less than most family estates like Golf Estate/Passat, A4, 3 series etc. which would be the traditional alternative. And it makes sense as these compact/small size SUV that the majority is going for are essentially raised versions of their hatch/sedan brother platforms, not 2-tonne Range Rovers.
If you drive a modern safe car, it should not be your last day in neither case.
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It's not the weight that worries me, it's the fact that it's sitting so high. Maybe a Qashqai isn't the ideal example - maybe an X-Trail would've been better. The point remains though - big cars being driven badly scare me more than smaller ones!
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There there. There's nothing to be scared of.
Perhaps you should get one next. You might actually find you quite like it, and understand why these cars are so popular now.
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There's me trying to be polite and sensible. :rolleyes:
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Dub - this 'next' business makes you look like you're taking this all very personally.
I'm not taking anything personally. What I don't like is people that do their best to justify their own dislike to something with invalid 'arguments'. You might not like larger vehicles, but whatever you have to say will not make people that do, change their minds. As in my previous post, don't knock anything until you've tried it.
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That's what makes you look like you're taking it personally - I'm not trying to change anybody's mind, I'm stating that I don't like the things, for the reasons listed.
The ones I've tried really haven't endeared themselves to me. Too rollypolly for my tastes, and as I said before, when I'm driving a car - what do I need any extra space for? My head doesn't hit the roof in an A-Class, and my shoulders don't knock my passengers' in a Fiesta.
For me and my tastes, something that big has to try incredibly hard not to look showy or gaudy - and they generally fail. I find the Bentayga to be absolutely revolting, same with whatever the RR one is too. Ostentatious chic isn't my style.
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I agree with you on the Bentley and the RR whatever. I'm not fond of the Q7 either or any of the overly 'styled' Korean offerings come to think of it.
Back to the original topic. I like the idea of the Tig R, but I tend to find that when I'm sat up higher in a roly poly car, I'm not inclined to want to press on, so a sub 200 horsepower diesel engine and an automatic gearbox suits the application perfectly.
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This is where we will always differ I'm afraid!
I just configured a Tig with the 2.0 TDI and DSG, and an S3 Sportback upto the same spec (I had to spec the Tig up to the S3's base spec, I then added options I'd choose like for like on each (audio upgrade etc.)), and the Tig came in at £42,375, while the S3 came in at £40,600.
In my mind here, you're paying ~£2,000 for a slightly higher place to put your bum (and more load space), and sacrificing power, excitement and cabin quality to boot.
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This is where we will always differ I'm afraid!
I just configured a Tig with the 2.0 TDI and DSG, and an S3 Sportback upto the same spec (I had to spec the Tig up to the S3's base spec, I then added options I'd choose like for like on each (audio upgrade etc.)), and the Tig came in at £42,375, while the S3 came in at £40,600.
In my mind here, you're paying ~£2,000 for a slightly higher place to put your bum (and more load space), and sacrificing power, excitement and cabin quality to boot.
I think ‘excitement ‘ is an unavailable option on the S3... :grin: