GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Wide on 31 October 2017, 09:47
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Someone who had tried this?, looks very easy to attach.. But will it work?
http://www.stertman.se/bromsar/3885-vw-golf-gti-mk7-stertman-motorsport-bromskylning-fram.html
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Similar to this?
http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26005
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Yes!, but that was i little bit harder to mount?!.. :)
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From what I've read they (brake ducts in general) seem to work well on these cars. The option from Stertman seems simpler to install also. The question is do you really need them? Have you found the discs becoming overly hot?
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From what I've read they (brake ducts in general) seem to work well on these cars. The option from Stertman seems simpler to install also. The question is do you really need them? Have you found the discs becoming overly hot?
I understand that the brakes will last longer with this when you drive hard!
I have order them from Stertman ( the company who tune Jon Olssons fun cars ;) ) . :smiley:
A youtube review is coming!
Sub! ;)
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From what I've read they (brake ducts in general) seem to work well on these cars. The option from Stertman seems simpler to install also. The question is do you really need them? Have you found the discs becoming overly hot?
I understand that the brakes will last longer with this when you drive hard!
I have order them from Stertman ( the company who tune Jon Olssons fun cars ;) ) now! This is a OEM part från VW.. :smiley:
A youtube review is coming!
Sub! ;)
I imagine with only a few exceptions, it would be nearly impossible to get the brakes to work that hard on any public road to be able to make a difference because of the brake ducts (unless you are repetitively accelerating and braking for some test). Stock PP setup should be more than up to the job and the biggest benefit from the ducts would be just in knowing you have them on the car :grin: For track use though I think it's a welcome mod.
But if you already went for them even better for us, we can enjoy your installation video :wink:
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I'd be inclined to make sure you've done the usual cheap brake upgrades first.... better fluid, replacement lines, replacement pads (remembering of course that race grade pads last for race distance only!)
I did this on my old bike :D
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From what I've read they (brake ducts in general) seem to work well on these cars. The option from Stertman seems simpler to install also. The question is do you really need them? Have you found the discs becoming overly hot?
I understand that the brakes will last longer with this when you drive hard!
I have order them from Stertman ( the company who tune Jon Olssons fun cars ;) ) now! This is a OEM part från VW.. :smiley:
A youtube review is coming!
Sub! ;)
I imagine with only a few exceptions, it would be nearly impossible to get the brakes to work that hard on any public road to be able to make a difference because of the brake ducts (unless you are repetitively accelerating and braking for some test). Stock PP setup should be more than up to the job and the biggest benefit from the ducts would be just in knowing you have them on the car :grin: For track use though I think it's a welcome mod.
But if you already went for them even better for us, we can enjoy your installation video :wink:
Yes the PP brakes are great, and you probably don´t need any better on the road!. But many people upgrade them, and this is a cheap way to start upgrade
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I'd be inclined to make sure you've done the usual cheap brake upgrades first.... better fluid, replacement lines, replacement pads (remembering of course that race grade pads last for race distance only!)
I did this on my old bike :D
But think this is better to start with :smiley:. The upgrade you talk about is around 500 Euro on my car. And this is only a 90 Euro upgrade
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You probably don't need disc ducted cooling though until you've already dealt with fluid and hoses and having some proper grippy pads to generate the heat already and of course some proper hard driving (which you won't do on the road at these levels). Only track driving will push OEM braking beyond its limits, you need continual max braking over like 20-30 mins of a track session before you'll see any noticeable fade on OEM gear.
90 euros down the drain I politely suggest...
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You probably don't need disc ducted cooling though until you've already dealt with fluid and hoses and having some proper grippy pads to generate the heat already and of course some proper hard driving (which you won't do on the road at these levels). Only track driving will push OEM braking beyond its limits, you need continual max braking over like 20-30 mins of a track session before you'll see any noticeable fade on OEM gear.
90 euros down the drain I politely suggest...
I agree. If improving braking performance is an actual worry then fluids and pads are where you are starting from. But I think by now from his description it sounds more like: "Where should I spend my 100eur monthly car budget for this month?" :grin: rather than an actual brake performance worry. Longevity of the discs for public road use?? Not really a problem with the PP brakes I'd say...
@Wide: Just to be clear I am not discouraging you or anything! We all want to do stuff to our cars even if it's not actually required, that's absolutely fine! Looking forward to the installation.
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Yes!, but that was i little bit harder to mount?!.. :)
My DIY..so yes modification to mount as they are designed to fit the Audi alloy lower front wishbones...just remove the VW pressed steel wishbones & fit the Audi ones if you want the brake ducts to be easy to fit.... :tongue:
& yes I fitted these as my standard 288mm discs I cooked on the famous A939 (local road to me)..so fitted the 312mm GTI/GTD set up..& these air guides..
The trouble with the standard air flow is that the duct under the bumper directs it to the wishbone, but the air stream passes across the wishbone & exits under the body.....the air guide directs it at the space between the calliper & hub into the central vented area of the disc...the air then exits the disc leading edge facing the inside of the wheel rim....thus you get more dirt on this.
Basically it cools the discs down better as you have air flowing more between the inner face & outer face solid parts of the brake disc...
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You probably don't need disc ducted cooling though until you've already dealt with fluid and hoses and having some proper grippy pads to generate the heat already and of course some proper hard driving (which you won't do on the road at these levels). Only track driving will push OEM braking beyond its limits, you need continual max braking over like 20-30 mins of a track session before you'll see any noticeable fade on OEM gear.
90 euros down the drain I politely suggest...
I have and will drive on the track. ;)
https://youtu.be/jHgkt8OspT8 (https://youtu.be/jHgkt8OspT8)
The Brakes started burning after a tracksession due to bad cooling, so i think this part that is on some stock performance MQB car ;) So i think this will help. After this i will go for the CS front Brakes.. :wink:
Next time i will have Semi-slicks on the car, and then the brakes will be happy.. :sad: :grin: :grin:
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You probably don't need disc ducted cooling though until you've already dealt with fluid and hoses and having some proper grippy pads to generate the heat already and of course some proper hard driving (which you won't do on the road at these levels). Only track driving will push OEM braking beyond its limits, you need continual max braking over like 20-30 mins of a track session before you'll see any noticeable fade on OEM gear.
90 euros down the drain I politely suggest...
I agree. If improving braking performance is an actual worry then fluids and pads are where you are starting from. But I think by now from his description it sounds more like: "Where should I spend my 100eur monthly car budget for this month?" :grin: rather than an actual brake performance worry. Longevity of the discs for public road use?? Not really a problem with the PP brakes I'd say...
@Wide: Just to be clear I am not discouraging you or anything! We all want to do stuff to our cars even if it's not actually required, that's absolutely fine! Looking forward to the installation.
The problem is that i will not start to mess with the Warrenty of the car. Therefore upgrade brakes will come later..
Stay tune to a fun video!.. :grin:
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How will semi slicks make a difference to brake heat? Ok, so they grip the road more, but you still have to effectively shed the same inertial energy, which gets turned into heat shed from the brake system.
CS front brakes aren't any different to the PP/R ones are they?
Even if they are, again, probably more logically swap the fluid, lines and pads first - because you'll be needing these for a big brake kit anyway.
I don't think those mods will affect the warranty anyway - well, apart from no warranty on pads and brake lines, which are unlikely fail points anyway.
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BTW, brake line kit is ~100 euros, castrol srf fluid ~50 euros and some decent pads probably ~50 euros too...
Cheapy cheap cheap, probably something even i would do...
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The problem is that i will not start to mess with the Warrenty of the car. Therefore upgrade brakes will come later..
Stay tune to a fun video!.. :grin:
CS brakes are the same size as PP & R, & R performance
Only difference is that the CS discs are two piece & 1kg lighter each..also specific friction material for pads...
R Performance uses the CS discs & pads & adds a silver coloured badge/cap thing to the calliper like the red CS & GTI/PP...
Callipers, carriers, hoses, servo etc all the same for above..
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Full on brake replacement with performance calipers and lightweight swanky vented discs is super expensive. Sure its going to be epic but...
I once looked at doing it to a Focus we had (because Ford brakes suck d*ck) and after seeing the price decided i'd just slide on on two bits of cardboard with butter packs for pads...
Do insurance companies care about brake upgrades? Its safety afterall :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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How will semi slicks make a difference to brake heat? Ok, so they grip the road more, but you still have to effectively shed the same inertial energy, which gets turned into heat shed from the brake system.
CS front brakes aren't any different to the PP/R ones are they?
Even if they are, again, probably more logically swap the fluid, lines and pads first - because you'll be needing these for a big brake kit anyway.
I don't think those mods will affect the warranty anyway - well, apart from no warranty on pads and brake lines, which are unlikely fail points anyway.
The Semi slick can kill the brakes because better traction!, google that.. :smiley:
And this type of Brake ducts is on the Porsche GT3, so i don´t think this type of cooling is so wrong.. :wink:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/429938-997-gt3-front-brake-ducts-and-cg-lock-installed.html (https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/429938-997-gt3-front-brake-ducts-and-cg-lock-installed.html)
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The problem is that i will not start to mess with the Warrenty of the car. Therefore upgrade brakes will come later..
Stay tune to a fun video!.. :grin:
CS brakes are the same size as PP & R, & R performance
Only difference is that the CS discs are two piece & 1kg lighter each..also specific friction material for pads...
R Performance uses the CS discs & pads & adds a silver coloured badge/cap thing to the calliper like the red CS & GTI/PP...
Callipers, carriers, hoses, servo etc all the same for above..
Yes you are right :smiley:.
But what i have read from people that have upgrade to the CS brakes is much better, and this is the best upgrade you can do for the GTI. :smiley:
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Of course ducting is a great idea for high performance braking systems, aren't the scoops on the R for brakes?
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CS brakes are the same size as PP & R, & R performance
Only difference is that the CS discs are two piece & 1kg lighter each..also specific friction material for pads...
R Performance uses the CS discs & pads & adds a silver coloured badge/cap thing to the calliper like the red CS & GTI/PP...
Callipers, carriers, hoses, servo etc all the same for above..
Yes you are right :smiley:.
But what i have read from people that have upgrade to the CS brakes is much better, and this is the best upgrade you can do for the GTI. :smiley:
CS (Clubsport) brakes are the PP/R brakes. I think you and Golfdave refer to the CSS (Clubsport S) brakes instead that feature a slightly lighter two-piece disc and different pads as mentioned. I don't think there is much performance gain in the discs themselves other than the slightly reduced weight, any improvement is down to the pads. From what I've read about the PP to CSS brake upgrade they are not really "much better" and definitely not "best upgrade you can do for the GTI". The difference is minimal and they are mostly selected by people because of their OEM+ character not their performance. I know I would not like a drilled disc on my car though.
If you want a real brake upgrade you are looking at pads such as Pagid that cost alone as much as the CSS discs and pads together, good fluid and lines as a first step, and then for serious track use a proper BBK from StopTech, Alcon, Brembo and the likes. Oh, and brake ducts of-course. :wink:
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CS (Clubsport) brakes are the PP/R brakes. I think you and Golfdave refer to the CSS (Clubsport S) brakes instead that feature a slightly lighter two-piece disc and different pads as mentioned. I don't think there is much performance gain in the discs themselves other than the slightly reduced weight, any improvement is down to the pads. From what I've read about the PP to CSS brake upgrade they are not really "much better" and definitely not "best upgrade you can do for the GTI". The difference is minimal and they are mostly selected by people because of their OEM+ character not their performance. I know I would not like a drilled disc on my car though.
If you want a real brake upgrade you are looking at pads such as Pagid that cost alone as much as the CSS discs and pads together, good fluid and lines as a first step, and then for serious track use a proper BBK from StopTech, Alcon, Brembo and the likes. Oh, and brake ducts of-course. :wink:
Yeah CS & CSS I tend to refer as the same..which they aren't my bad... :embarrassed:
Point being as OEM it won't void warranty, as items made by "VW" for the Golf & will be perfect fit ...just the same as getting the dealer to supply & fit a different Golf alloy...so no reason why "Wide" can't do it.... :grin:
Personally I wouldn't even consider the PP/R/CS/CSS/RP 340mm discs with a heavy single piston sliding fist calliper to be anyway "performance"....
Seat were fitting 4 pot Brembos to the Cupra R cars years ago & they had way less power!!
Vagbremtechnic??...do various nice kits including small 4 pot kits etc....they even sell the two piece Clubsport (CSS) discs for about £350
Anyway brake cooling with air guides etc is very beneficial & the "R" has oil coolers in those big side grills I think...as defo not a "though" duct from when I have looked at them in person..
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Yeah CS & CSS I tend to refer as the same..which they aren't my bad... :embarrassed:
Point being as OEM it won't void warranty, as items made by "VW" for the Golf & will be perfect fit ...just the same as getting the dealer to supply & fit a different Golf alloy...so no reason why "Wide" can't do it.... :grin:
Personally I wouldn't even consider the PP/R/CS/CSS/RP 340mm discs with a heavy single piston sliding fist calliper to be anyway "performance"....
Seat were fitting 4 pot Brembos to the Cupra R cars years ago & they had way less power!!
Vagbremtechnic??...do various nice kits including small 4 pot kits etc....they even sell the two piece Clubsport (CSS) discs for about £350
Anyway brake cooling with air guides etc is very beneficial & the "R" has oil coolers in those big side grills I think...as defo not a "though" duct from when I have looked at them in person..
Yes, I agree that their OEM character is the biggest attraction to PP/R owners, that and the fact lots of people think of drilled discs as an uber-performance item...
I also agree that neither setup: PP/R/CS or CSS is a real high-performance brake setup. But I can understand the choice on the basis that none of these cars are race-focused models either so why raise the cost? The Cupra R (previous gens) has always been a more hardcore animal on purpose, this actually used to set SEAT apart from the rest of VAG brands (not any more). And I don't think power has much to do with it. A big multi piston setup offers probably minimal reduction in actual braking distance. What it offers is more even pressure, better feel and control and more importantly: Endurance. Are the PP/R brakes strong enough to stop the car adequately? Yes they are, I have been much impressed by them. Can they do it repeatedly for 2hr on a track? No way, but that's not the purpose of the car anyway. The 4 piston Brembo setup on the Cupra is not without its issues also. You can't fit almost any 18" wheel and have to run 19" winters and several owners have discovered cracks on one of the disc as they are not symmetric and one side's cooling vanes are always rotating the wrong way. So all things considered, maybe VW's choice does start to make some sense in the end.
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. The 4 piston Brembo setup on the Cupra is not without its issues also. You can't fit almost any 18" wheel and have to run 19" winters and several owners have discovered cracks on one of the disc as they are not symmetric and one side's cooling vanes are always rotating the wrong way. So all things considered, maybe VW's choice does start to make some sense in the end.
Those are nicked from the Audi TTRS I think...& at that size should be 6 or 8 piston...& no I would NOT recommend those either...you can get very powerful 340mm size 4 pot kits.....& I would get "J" hook discs..or some grooves but not drilled...
£350 ish a pair of CCS discs then the pads on top for a hassle free & 2kg (total) weight reduction is a very nice job...not the best, but better...but how much more to spend to get what I would recommend??....4 to 5 times??
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Thank you for all suggestions guys !. I will start with these brake ducts. The car worked great to drive 15min stint on the track with the original stuff with, which is enough. That it started to burn was that rubber tires came from the track on the boards and took fire. It would have been a nice movie, but I missed it ..;)
And i like OEM stuff, i have tested to much crap on early cars ;). therefore CSS brakes are interesting.. :wink:
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Soon a review :grin:...
(https://s1.postimg.org/2buvg4fm6j/stertman4.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/2buvg4fm6j/)