GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: wantmygti on 31 May 2017, 22:05
-
Any ideas how the latest GTi is documented as achieving 6.2secs to 60 (manual or DSG) from 230ps when the Clubsport is only quoted as posting a 6.3secs dash from 260/290ps?
Presumably the GTI Performance with +15ps and potentially +1 DSG gear is quicker still?
-
Short answer is I don't know.
Longer answer is that it is probably best to ignore quotes figures. I've seen a YouTube review of the 7.5 GTi with PP and they timed it at 5.7 to 60mph with proper timing gear. That was for a DSG equipped car. Surely a DSG clubsport must be quicker still?! Unless the 245bhp figure for the GTI PP is conservative, here's hoping as I've ordered one
-
I'm tempted by the Clubsport - hoping its figures are conservative!! I think the DSG can put down the full 290ps from the off but the manual can't until 3rd gear?
-
Standard GTi (230hp) is quoted as 6.4 sec to 60, Performance edition (245) is quoted as 6.2 sec.
-
Standard GTi (230hp) is quoted as 6.4 sec to 60, Performance edition (245) is quoted as 6.2 sec.
The dealer listed used cars are showing 230ps at 6.2 secs.
Either way the CS should be quicker on paper.
-
Any ideas how the latest GTi is documented as achieving 6.2secs to 60 (manual or DSG) from 230ps when the Clubsport is only quoted as posting a 6.3secs dash from 260/290ps?
... with just a little bit more (quoted) power and torque the Golf R can do 0-62 much faster.
So I'm going to guess the answer is traction. They are hitting the limit of what a FWD car can achieve. Of course, after 60 the Clubsport will give an Golf R a good run.
-
Clubsport vs Golf R - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkLrq2mc9Mc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkLrq2mc9Mc)
The Clubsport appears to out brake and corner better than a Golf R. They explain why in the description. In theory the Golf GTI Performance - having the R brakes and being lighter - should be able to do the same. Though the Golf R will be able to exit bends and accelerate away on the straights.
Did you notice the Clubsport dropping back everytime he changed gear.
-
Going on VW Driver mag road test results, as they're done by the same people using the same equipment under as close as possible conditions using real life figures, then there's very little in it 0-60 between the ED40 CS & mk7 PP 230PS (same engine tune as standard 7.5GTI). Even the in gear performance is reasonably close going from published figures, manual vs manual.
The first two gears are quite low and the CS doesn't produce full power until 3rd gear so it's not really any surprise 0-60's are very close with no 4WD to halt the rampant wheel spin. The VAQ diff can't stop wheels spinning if they're both pointing dead ahead and normal traction control will try and stifle the power at the wheels instead.
Once you're looking at 0-70 and above you'll see the numbers opening up a bit. By which time an R would have vanished into the road haze ahead.
I'm not sure how much extra torque the CS puts out under full boost but the 7.5PP has more torque than the 258lb ft of the 265bhp tune of the CS in 1st & 2nd (which is identical torque to the other mk7 GTI's) so the 7.5PP may well be a fraction quicker to 60 than a CS.
It's in real world driving the CS scores with its eagerness to rev; away from academic (almost pointless) 0-60 drag races the CS feels more eager and although there will only ever be a few tenths of a second in it until way after licence losing speeds are attained (all too quickly) but the bigger turbo'd car definitely feels more eager once the needle starts climbing up the rev range.
-
I think the Mk7.5 as the avantage, the "new" 7speed is a masterpiece. The lost of horesepower is gaind by the 7 speed...
It´s crazy when you think how the engineers can do cars better and faster every time it´s a facelift :) ( i work as a engineer.. :undecided:) :grin:
-
The Clubsport's "official" 0-60 has been messed with a lot during its lifetime. When the car was announced at Worthersee and until the first test drives from journos the quoted time was 5.9" which is closer to what independent tests have measured (between 5.9 and 6.1). For some (inexplicable at the time) reason they changed that value to a much lazier 6.3" at official launch even though the car bettered this time in every test. Not so inexplicable it seems now as the 7.5GTI's quoted 6.2" seems too much of a convenient 0.1" quicker as in "new car is quicker?!" :wink:
If the question is whether the 7.5GTI will be quicker than the CS both in 0-60 and in every other in-gear acceleration I very highly doubt it, unless they secretly fitted an R engine in the 7.5 as well (more particularly: an IS38 turbo :smiley:) especially above 2nd gear. If anyone has accurate acceleration times on the 7.5GTI (other than 0-60 which is out of my interest anyway) I'd be interested to compared them with my own times measured using high precision 10Hz GPS receiver.
-
A lot of publications mistake the 0-62 mph (100kph) time to be a 0-60 time so that's where the confusions could be coming from. Then by adding real world timings into the mix there are loads of different 0-60 figures flying around and no one knows what's what.
-
0-60/62 is a very dated and often misleading benchmark for a modern car's performance, especially when FWD is involved but even between two FWD sometimes as with today's torque and hp, most of the car's effort till 30-40mph is putting that power down, not how much it's got. It comes from an age where hitting 60mph was something to brag about whereas today performance cars can hit 2.5-3 times that speed. In fact for anything over 250bhp it's the accelerations from 50mph and above that are showing how the car actually performs against others.
It's not problematic just with FWD either. Electric cars are extremely flattered by that benchmark. Those sub 3" numbers seem impressive but once the launch advantage of say a Tesla goes away, and especially over 60mph, they struggle to keep up even with cars with 60% that horsepower.
Still my 70 year old non-petrolhead father asks what's this car's 0-60 so I guess it an easy to digest (but rendered irrelevant) figure for the masses...
-
Still my 70 year old non-petrolhead father asks what's this car's 0-60 so I guess it an easy to digest (but rendered irrelevant) figure for the masses...
If the 0-60 times are irrelevant then why does everyone always quote them? Also, every single car publication - whether it be on tv, youtube magazine etc etc - always quotes the 0-60 time on every car review (particularly performance cars). Would you say they're non-petrolheads?
-
Clubsport vs Golf R - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkLrq2mc9Mc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkLrq2mc9Mc)
The Clubsport appears to out brake and corner better than a Golf R. They explain why in the description. In theory the Golf GTI Performance - having the R brakes and being lighter - should be able to do the same. Though the Golf R will be able to exit bends and accelerate away on the straights.
Did you notice the Clubsport dropping back everytime he changed gear.
Looks like a club sport s to me
-
Still my 70 year old non-petrolhead father asks what's this car's 0-60 so I guess it an easy to digest (but rendered irrelevant) figure for the masses...
If the 0-60 times are irrelevant then why does everyone always quote them? Also, every single car publication - whether it be on tv, youtube magazine etc etc - always quotes the 0-60 time on every car review (particularly performance cars). Would you say they're non-petrolheads?
Because it's the oldest performance figure that everyone (70 year old non-petrolhead father, you, others) is familiar about and being a factory figure of-course they have to quote them. However that doesn't make them relevant (or at least as relevant as some people think in judging cars by 0-60 times) as it can only address a fraction of a current sports car's performance which barely stops at 60mph we would all agree. On the contrary, it's around that figure (probably 50) that any launch advantage/disadvantage like weight or powertrain are removed from the equation and you can clearly compare how fast a car can really go in the real world where drag races from a standstill are rather rare.
-
Clubsport vs Golf R - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkLrq2mc9Mc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkLrq2mc9Mc)
The Clubsport appears to out brake and corner better than a Golf R. They explain why in the description. In theory the Golf GTI Performance - having the R brakes and being lighter - should be able to do the same. Though the Golf R will be able to exit bends and accelerate away on the straights.
Did you notice the Clubsport dropping back everytime he changed gear.
Looks like a club sport s to me
What in particular makes it look like an S may I ask? :huh:
-
Clubsport vs Golf R - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkLrq2mc9Mc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkLrq2mc9Mc)
The Clubsport appears to out brake and corner better than a Golf R. They explain why in the description. In theory the Golf GTI Performance - having the R brakes and being lighter - should be able to do the same. Though the Golf R will be able to exit bends and accelerate away on the straights.
Did you notice the Clubsport dropping back everytime he changed gear.
Looks like a club sport s to me
What in particular makes it look like an S may I ask? :huh:
That's an old video that was out well before the CSS was announced.
-
I think if you have a big lairy V8 with an auto box that requires no skill to launch quickly then 0-60's are probably relevant.
If you have lots of power and 4wd and like showing off in the rain then maybe 0-60's are good.
If you like blasting off roundabouts or driving B roads then 0-60's aren't really something you'll worry about. GTI's have never been about 0-60's. I can remember back in the mk2 GTI days Astra GTE owners banging on about their superior 0-60's whilst glossing over their rusty rear wheel arches... :rolleyes:
-
Looks like a club sport s to me
... nah, the Clubsport S would spank a Golf R :wink:
-
I think if you have a big lairy V8 with an auto box that requires no skill to launch quickly then 0-60's are probably relevant.
If you have lots of power and 4wd and like showing off in the rain then maybe 0-60's are good.
If you like blasting off roundabouts or driving B roads then 0-60's aren't really something you'll worry about. GTI's have never been about 0-60's. I can remember back in the mk2 GTI days Astra GTE owners banging on about their superior 0-60's whilst glossing over their rusty rear wheel arches... :rolleyes:
Agreed! My boss has an S8 Plus so 600bhp and I've had it on a few occasions for a week or so and its pretty incredible.. but you need a large bit of road to actually open it up and then you rather quickly find you're in license losing territory.. TG video'd one doing 0-60 in 3.5.. :shocked:
I've got a std Mk7.5 GTi arriving this month, I would imagine its a not a traffic light car but living right on the edge of the Peak District, I'm looking forward to just have a blast on nice twisty roads where I reckon the Golf will be right at home.
-
Standard GTi (230hp) is quoted as 6.4 sec to 60, Performance edition (245) is quoted as 6.2 sec.
Think those are the times quoted for 62 not 60 so real world might be a touch quicker..