GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: mcmaddy on 10 September 2016, 10:36
-
Rather than high jack other threads I'll start my own. I can't decide what to do, circumstances in my life have changed where i don't really need the Tiguan any more as I'm traveling to work on my own now (wife found the Tiguan easier to get in and out of). Still need a 5 door and can't decide if I should get another gtd or go for a gti pp. Financial sense would point to the gtd but a gti would come out about the same as the Tiguan. Current long term mpg on Tiguan 37.9 which I would expect to be at least 40 in a gtd and possibly the sound the same for a gti. Do about 15 miles round trip work and back which isn't really town driving as such. Mileage points to gti but again financial points to a gtd. Any opinions greatly received.
-
Remapped gtd.
Fuel economy and performance of the gti.
Best of both
-
Are the 15miles Stop Start or fairly fast. If Stop Start then go for the GTi to avoid DPF issues and lack of heat on winter mornings, the PP is a good car and lots of fun where the roads allow but mpg will drop.
Really depends on what you use the car for, remember a mapped GTD will invalidate the warranty on all the mechanical parts whereas a standard PP will be covered, and you can extend the warranty to 5 years if you plan to keep the car that long.
Lastly there are some good finance deals on Rs about, though the mpg drops dramatically.
-
If you want to free up some income for other things, then I would suggest going for the GTD. It will do it all, and is a great car clearly. If you fancy something different then the GTI would fill the roll. You know the GTD you dont mind the diesel type car, it's a good choice. The next/last thing to do it get in a GTIpp and see if you think it's worth paying for, take it out in the dry on you fav road with the diff in sport. if it doesn't feel like its worth it to you, the decision is made, GTD it is...
-
If I had the choice it would be GTI over GTD.
I'm a GTD owner - GTD is really just a GTI wannabee, its nothing special. Just think how common on the roads the 184 TDI engine is over the VAG range as opposed to the GTI PP?
-
GTD shouldn't even be under consideration unless you're doing 20k+ miles p/a.
-
Mapped GTI PP, best of both worlds. :wink:
-
I don't think the 20k pa miles stacks up any more like what it used to. The difference in diesel to petrol price is negligible now and with the gtd being cheaper to buy in the first place it offsets some of the old argument.
Vidman - some mornings I can be at work within 15 minutes of leaving home other mornings about 25 minutes. I wouldn't say it's stop/start as such but I do have about 2 or three sets of traffic lights. It certainly doesn't cause any issues with the tiguan 184 engine or dpf. We do like our trips up to Skye and Arran too so the diesel comes into its own for those trips. Head is saying gtd but heart wants to try gti and the wife is becoming a bit tired of me changing the car haha
-
I have the GTD with a box. My wife has a standard GTI.
They are both totally different cars to drive.
I find the GTD quick off the line with very little effort but when I drove the GTI for a week I was embarrassed a few times by small family hatch's. I had to really work the GTI just to keep up.
I wasn't that keen on it at first as I wasn't that used to nearly red-lining a car to get the best out of it, however it grew on me :laugh:
You've already had a GTD with a box so know what it can do. I'd get an extended test drive with a GTI if you can.
I like my GTD as it can give you power and economy at the same time but I'm currently changing it for an R :smug:
-
GTD shouldn't even be under consideration unless you're doing 20k+ miles p/a.
That's bollocks. Even if you only do 10k miles PA, better residuals, cheaper list price and cheaper running costs make you a saving from day 1 and every month you have it - the question is, will the person deciding think that the GTI is worth the extra money? You'd have real bother doing 5k miles PA with a DPF, but 10k miles is fine.
I have set myself a limit for running a car (to allow me to do other things), and if I was PCPing and copping for all that interest rather than having bought outright and just putting back the depreciation into savings towards the next one, I wouldn't be in an R right now.
-
If I had the choice it would be GTI over GTD.
I'm a GTD owner - GTD is really just a GTI wannabee, its nothing special. Just think how common on the roads the 184 TDI engine is over the VAG range as opposed to the GTI PP?
I don't think the GTI is anything special these days either - 220ps is pretty low for a current hot hatch (although the MK7 performance Golfs all drive very well), the only reason for it's rarity is the opportunity people have had to run an R for less via lease or very high GFVs (before Nov 14) when PCPing. Before the NOx scandal, VW were incentivising the GTI to shift them (now they are incentivising everything). With a chassis as capable as the MK7, refinement and linear power delivery, a lot of the excitement is now gone from performance Golfs, they don't feel half as fast as they are. The clubsport is pretty much where the GTI should have been all along.
I also don't think VW build quality is a patch on what it was - but all cars are being built to a price these days, same can be said of BMW, Merc, Audi etc. I don't think i'd dare run a VW out of warranty these days. Gone are the days that cars were built to last.
-
I can't remember the last time i saw a MK7 GTI.It Is all GTD's and R's.
I think you should just get an R. :smiley:
-
I've just come from a 2014 Leon FR diesel 184 to a mk7 Golf GTI and I have to say I much prefer the GTI. It's quicker than the Leon and makes a much better noise! The Leon was a good practical car and comparable to the Golf GTD but I never 'loved' it whereas the GTI has put a smile on my face every time I get out of it.
-
Wesbar how have you found the difference in mpg's from your Leon to the gti?
-
Long term average in the leon was about 44 with a mix of driving. Golf only has 600 miles on it and i've averaged 35 ish. Around town its 32-33 and on a run I'm getting 37-40. I usually do 85 on the motorway though. Had to take my son to Nottingham Uni today for open day which was a 320 mile roundtrip and I got over 50mpg on 20 mile section where 50mph speed limit was in place!
-
I had a mk7 gtd no mods and now run a mk7 gti pp with a pedal box (a must if you want it to feel fast) I was averaging about 45ish in my gtd and about 32 in the gti...no long runs really, I like the torque of the gtd and the low end power, I preferred the grey seats standard wheels and the grey line through the lights and grill, but I always wanted a gti and I think I always knew that the gtd wouldn't scratch that itch, but they are both good cars.
The gti pp has a lot more grip than the gtd and feels faster from 3000 rpm onwards but not much difference with the pedal box from still to 3000rmp, if it was my money being spent the gti would get the vote but to be honest I really had to think about it and had I had the benefit of running a tuning box on my old gtd it might have got the nod....but that's only because I am still getting use to driving a performance petrol and have to run it at much higher revs than I naturally want to, so to summarise the gtd with a tuning box is only really lacking the handling of the gti pp, but the gti pp would really need a pedal box to get the best out of it.
-
Is the pedal box detectable by a dealer and has it affected your mpg?
-
I don't think it has affected the mpg and you can switch it of or it only takes a couple of minutes to be removed if needed, it makes a huge difference to the car though.
-
did you get the dtuk one? think i'll invest. I guess the insurance will need notifying?
-
GTD shouldn't even be under consideration unless you're doing 20k+ miles p/a.
That's nuts. Even if you only do 10k miles PA, better residuals, cheaper list price and cheaper running costs make you a saving from day 1 and every month you have it - the question is, will the person deciding think that the GTI is worth the extra money? You'd have real bother doing 5k miles PA with a DPF, but 10k miles is fine.
I have set myself a limit for running a car (to allow me to do other things), and if I was PCPing and copping for all that interest rather than having bought outright and just putting back the depreciation into savings towards the next one, I wouldn't be in an R right now.
FFS Mh, does everything have to come down to counting a few pennies. In my opinion, a Diesel is a compromise. A compromise only worth making if you do big mileage.
A diesel car is plainly not suited to short journeys / city commutes / low mileage. I just cannot understand why a GTD would even be considered or why mpg would be such a huge fixation for anyone who does low miles. If you do low miles, as I do, rejoice! Get a petrol car, ease off on the mpg fixation and enjoy the car. Life is too short.
-
I can't remember the last time i saw a MK7 GTI.It Is all GTD's and R's.
I think you should just get an R. :smiley:
:grin: +1 !!
-
Yes dtuk and my insurance did not go up, the choice of diesel or petrol is more complex than just mpg or even screen price as if I was planning to keep the car for many years rather than 3 to 4 years the durability of the diesel would have to come into play, from my experience diesels have been bomb proof.
-
Joegti - unfortunately everything these days comes down to money for some, me included. If the gtd was 5 or 10 quid a month cheaper than a gti then I wouldn't have second thoughts about ordering the gti. From what I've specced the monthlies are coming out at around 50 quid a month cheaper for a gtd which to me is a lot of money. As MH has already said the gtd is cheaper from day one than a gti and even doing 10k miles per year the dpf won't affected. If money was no object I'd be ordering an R but it doesn't even come close in the overall running costs against even a gti.
Maybe I'm just too careful with my money.
-
Not that careful surely, or you wouldn't be looking at new cars at all 😉
Again I'll say the biggest cost by far, the cost that dwarfs any other, is the day you drive the new car off the forecourt - depreciation. I know this only too well myself as someone who gets the new car itch too frequently...
-
GTD shouldn't even be under consideration unless you're doing 20k+ miles p/a.
That's nuts. Even if you only do 10k miles PA, better residuals, cheaper list price and cheaper running costs make you a saving from day 1 and every month you have it - the question is, will the person deciding think that the GTI is worth the extra money? You'd have real bother doing 5k miles PA with a DPF, but 10k miles is fine.
I have set myself a limit for running a car (to allow me to do other things), and if I was PCPing and copping for all that interest rather than having bought outright and just putting back the depreciation into savings towards the next one, I wouldn't be in an R right now.
FFS Mh, does everything have to come down to counting a few pennies. In my opinion, a Diesel is a compromise. A compromise only worth making if you do big mileage.
A diesel car is plainly not suited to short journeys / city commutes / low mileage. I just cannot understand why a GTD would even be considered or why mpg would be such a huge fixation for anyone who does low miles. If you do low miles, as I do, rejoice! Get a petrol car, ease off on the mpg fixation and enjoy the car. Life is too short.
What is a compromise? is a GTI a compromise over an R (which costs more to run), is an R a compromise to an Audi RS3? You could go on and on on that argument. Everyone has a budget in mind when they run a car.
You are entitled to your opinion, but it purely that, opinion. It is a FACT that the GTD costs less to own and run on far less than 20k miles PA, and £50/80/100 a month difference is not pennies.
Some people would concern themselves more with what they're paying at the pumps every week than what comes out of their account for the car itself (I do think Chris is one of those people! :grin:).
For me the R is worth the extra running costs, for others it won't be.
I find it mad that people will increase their depreciation by £100 a month for a few extra gadgets on a car that is already rammed with standard equipment, as options end up hugely expensive considering how little value they hold - but for others they want that DCC/Pro Nav/sunroof etc.
-
I think the gti will cost the same as my current tiguan, overall. Long term average on the tiguan is 38 and I think i should be able to do the same in a gti, gti may do a bit less but the couple of pence difference at the pumps will negate any fuel difference. So I suppose it comes down monthlies which will about the same give or take a couple of quid.
Will I be ok knowing that I'm probably no worse off in the gti and in a better car than the tiguan or will the 50 quid a month saving running a gtd bother me? That's the decision.
-
I think the gti will cost the same as my current tiguan, overall. Long term average on the tiguan is 38 and I think i should be able to do the same in a gti, gti may do a bit less but the couple of pence difference at the pumps will negate any fuel difference. So I suppose it comes down monthlies which will about the same give or take a couple of quid.
Will I be ok knowing that I'm probably no worse off in the gti and in a better car than the tiguan or will the 50 quid a month saving running a gtd bother me? That's the decision.
Could you get an extended test drive in a GTI? Or would it be possible to rent one for a weekend? I see where Joegti is coming from, not everything should come down to pounds and pence but equally £50 a month is significant and if it was me I'd want to know exactly what I would be getting.
-
I can't remember the last time i saw a MK7 GTI.It Is all GTD's and R's.
I think you should just get an R. :smiley:
GTD and R are as common as muck around here, mind they do both look the same. So glad I got the GTI as it is more exclusive. :cool:
-
I can't remember the last time i saw a MK7 GTI.It Is all GTD's and R's.
I think you should just get an R. :smiley:
GTD and R are as common as muck around here, mind they do both look the same. So glad I got the GTI as it is more exclusive. :cool:
In this case, when potential supply exceeds demand, exclusive = less popular. :tongue:
-
Have you considered the new Tiguan as a matter of interest? It looks a really impressive machine, a big leap forward in every way over the old one I'd say.
-
Been down to my usual vw dealer this morning and sat in the gtd and R, also looked at the new Tiguan and it's nice but not what we need. My jaw hit the floor when the mrs said 'the seats were more comfortable in the R so why don't you get one of those, it'll be better for your back'!!
I thought the seats were more comfortable even though they are the same shape etc but it must be the alcantara cloth that makes them feel more comfortable.
Done some rough figures and the R comes out about 80 a month more than a gtd and about 50 a month more than a gti without including fuel. Called into Audi dealer too to look at an S3 and they didn't even have any!! If I've got green light for an R I may aswell look at an S3 :grin:
-
Been down to my usual vw dealer this morning and sat in the gtd and R, also looked at the new Tiguan and it's nice but not what we need. My jaw hit the floor when the mrs said 'the seats were more comfortable in the R so why don't you get one of those, it'll be better for your back'!!
I thought the seats were more comfortable even though they are the same shape etc but it must be the alcantara cloth that makes them feel more comfortable.
Done some rough figures and the R comes out about 80 a month more than a gtd and about 50 a month more than a gti without including fuel. Called into Audi dealer too to look at an S3 and they didn't even have any!! If I've got green light for an R I may aswell look at an S3 :grin:
So there's only £30pm between the Golf and the GTI in PCP terms? Considering your 8k miles PA, i'd expect you to average 45mpg in the GTD, 33mpg in the GTI and 30mpg in the R (all manual). Based on the current fuel prices I get locally of 106.9p/L for petrol, 107.9p/L for diesel and 112.9p/L for RON 99 petrol (Tesco Momentum 99), you're talking:-
£879 pa fueling costs GTD (£73pm)
£1186 pa fueling costs GTI (£99pm)
£1379 pa fueling costs R (£115pm)
All in then, over and above the GTD, the GTI is going to cost you about £70pm more inc car tax, and the R is going to cost you £136pm more than the GTD.
If I were you, i'd get a test drive in both (might be hard to get a test drive in a manual R, but you could always have another look at mine) - you don't want to end up in a GTI and wishing you spent the extra for an R a year down the line. I can't see the R seats being any more supportive Chris - the Alcantara bolsters are probably a bit better at gripping the behind and torso - that may add up to more comfort.
If you are looking to chop the Tiguan in for an Audi, prepare for fun and games - they're not very receptive to haggling locally (Silverlink/Scotswood Road) - it was hard work cutting them down to size for the wife's A1, despite having nothing to chop in.
-
The fuel prices are slightly higher through here Matt but we're in the same ball park. They've got 2 manual Rs at Durham but Mick wasn't that keen to organise a test drive in September so I may look elsewhere. As much as I'd love an R were talking nearly 600 quid a month all in (that's without me putting anything in mind). It's an awful lot for a car. I've been getting more discount quotes for a Leon Cupra 290 and the ST version but they don't do dynamic chassis from what I can see.
-
I think dynamic chassis is standard on the Cupra. It was on my friend's Dynamic Grey one. That was one handsome car too.
I don't think there are any particular arguments about which of the GTI/D/R is best.
I've driven all three and each have their strengths.
Justifying a GTI when you can get an R for similar money might be hard but the GTI is very underrated.
Having used a standard, then tuned, then standard GTI and GTI PP, then a standard and a tuned R I can happily say that plenty of warm Diesels give the 360 BHP R a good hiding at traffic lights unless you really drive anti socially due to the Diesel's longer gearing and torque delivery. Also at motorway speeds the Diesels perform as well as can be sensibly used and as a point to point car there would be little to nothing in it.
I've spent enough time in all three performance models now to know that it's more how you get your kicks that justifies your choice.
Use 300bhp for more than a few seconds and you're in licence losing territory.
The petrols are smoother, faster revving and sound better with a broad power band. Plus when you take into account the power available they're pretty fuel efficient too.
However the TDI's have their own charm and aside from the obvious cost savings the actual power delivery is quite satisfying with a good shove in the back making them fun to drive in their own right, without having to really Rev them hard.
Which is best? Toss a coin!
-
You're right Exonian dcc is standard on the Cupra. Didn't see that anywhere, makes it even more attractive now.
-
If I had the choice it would be GTI over GTD.
I'm a GTD owner - GTD is really just a GTI wannabee, its nothing special. Just think how common on the roads the 184 TDI engine is over the VAG range as opposed to the GTI PP?
I don't think the GTI is anything special these days either - 220ps is pretty low for a current hot hatch (although the MK7 performance Golfs all drive very well), the only reason for it's rarity is the opportunity people have had to run an R for less via lease or very high GFVs (before Nov 14) when PCPing. Before the NOx scandal, VW were incentivising the GTI to shift them (now they are incentivising everything). With a chassis as capable as the MK7, refinement and linear power delivery, a lot of the excitement is now gone from performance Golfs, they don't feel half as fast as they are. The clubsport is pretty much where the GTI should have been all along.
Suppose you're right there about the GTI but its obviously still fast enough for some.
I remember when I had my EP3 Type R (197hp) I was looking to trade to a mk5 GTI (197bhp) now the new Type R is 300bhp, with the mk7 GTI only at 220/230. But then suppose that why we have the R and the CS...
-
Has anyone here considered something older and more interesting?
I know quite a few people that prefer to buy older cars. You really do get the pick of something that would have been completely out of reach new, but now can be extremely affordable. Granted, these sort of cars will cost more to run and maintain, but when you take the deprecation (or lack of) into account, they can make a lot of sense and provide much more fun than a mundane new hatchback.
-
If you're talking about something like a 10 year old Porsche 911 or 6 year old Audi R8, that's a serious fuel bill and a remortgage to fix anything major.
A neighbour of mine had a 2003 911 for a few years, looked lovely, did 14mpg.
-
Has anyone here considered something older and more interesting?
I know quite a few people that prefer to buy older cars. You really do get the pick of something that would have been completely out of reach new, but now can be extremely affordable. Granted, these sort of cars will cost more to run and maintain, but when you take the deprecation (or lack of) into account, they can make a lot of sense and provide much more fun than a mundane new hatchback.
I'm always looking at interesting classics and would love to own one but current parking arrangements mean I can only have one car. We do quite a few holidays by car and what with shift work I must have something reliable. The funny thing about depreciation is you don't see it, it just creeps up on you so I just ignore it. The problem with an older car is they have a habit of hammering your pocket constantly for fuel, repairs etc and you see those costs coming out of your pay every month which soon gets tedious. Having previously owned an older Alfa and Lotus, both great cars but a pair of right royal pains in the backside.
-
If you're talking about something like a 10 year old Porsche 911 or 6 year old Audi R8, that's a serious fuel bill and a remortgage to fix anything major.
A neighbour of mine had a 2003 911 for a few years, looked lovely, did 14mpg.
I'm not talking 911 or R8, more RS4/6, C63. Something that still works for daily duties.
-
Whilst I'm not going to venture an opinion on what Chris should get as that's deeply personal and entirely down to his own personal circumstances, however reading this thread has made me smile and also made me realized what a great choice we have in performance Golf's.
10 years or so ago there would have been no choice if one wanted a "sensible" hot Golf, that would have been the GTI. The R was good, and sounded awesome with the 6 pot engine, but drank fuel like English football fans abroad. As for the diesel Golf's well the "true" GTD didn't exist, and there was quite a performance gap between the best of the oil burners and the GTi.
Now days, however, all three models (GTD, GTI and R) have good performance with the performance figures going up incrementally as you move up the range, but real world performance (unless thrashing) isn't worlds apart for all three. Sure the R is quicker than a GTI, and the GTI quicker than a GTD, but even a GTD at around 7 seconds 0-60 and 140mph+ top speed isn't what you would consider snail like.
We should all be very happy that VW has given us a hot(ish) Golf for all pockets and aspirations.
-
Has anyone here considered something older and more interesting?
I know quite a few people that prefer to buy older cars. You really do get the pick of something that would have been completely out of reach new, but now can be extremely affordable. Granted, these sort of cars will cost more to run and maintain, but when you take the deprecation (or lack of) into account, they can make a lot of sense and provide much more fun than a mundane new hatchback.
You'll probably find a lot of enthusiasts will switch from buying a slightly older 'better' model and a newer one depending on what side of the bed they get out of and what their current requirements are. I know a few people who switch between the two and have seen plenty of that type of thing on the forums.
I think, using a sweeping statement which doesn't actually apply to me, that many car sales are done for ease of transaction and removal of as much risk as possible for the buyer.
Typical modern living really.
Walk into dealer, research online, go back to dealer and either complete the transaction when the figures are right or buy online and hey presto a spanking new car is ordered which has known running costs that can be budgeted for easily. I guess that works for a hell of a lot of people and they know they're getting something reliable, not been in a crash and will be fixed if something goes wrong without incurring a lot of excess bills.
Different things suit different people but I think the above is the most applicable to the majority of people that buy new, particularly younger people that live their lives on credit and have only ever known fairly low interest rates.
People in their 60's or older will have lived through different times so tended to save up for what they can afford as they grew up in post war Britain.
People in their 40's to 50's will remember massive interest rates under Thatcher and prior to that massive inflation, power cuts, strikes and other uncertainties so again will be more cautious with their money.
People younger than 40 will generally only know the fairly stage managed politics and banking of today, probably have little savings as property prices in most of the country are ridiculous, will generally have two full time wages coming in and have grown up in the Playstation generation of just live for the day. People are getting MUCH lazier.
-
What a coincidence...I was following a new Cupra to work today, looked very stealthy/low key - much like the R (apart from the exhausts and red brake calipers), I was expecting it to look a bit of a Halfords special like the old one was - pleasantly surprised.
-
To me the Cupra 290 sits between the gti pp and the R. It's got more power than the gti but less than the R.
-
I've come from a Leon FR and it is a poor mans Golf. :wink:
-
The FR might be compared to a gti but what about a cupra to a gti?
-
Just meant in terms of build quality rather than performance. I've had a mk2 and then mk3 Leon and the fit and finish is not as good as the Golf. Cheap plastics in the cabin, panel alignment etc.
-
To me the Cupra 290 sits between the gti pp and the R. It's got more power than the gti but less than the R.
As you're talking in terms of power, i think it was auto express who got the cupra around their test track faster than the R.
.......And I'm pretty sure Evo got the R around their track faster than the RS3, never mind the S3!
-
Ps. Your choice just boils down to how much you'd like/need that extra £50/60/70 pm in your pocket :smiley:
-
It's really a head v's heart decision. Last year my head won and I got a new GTD in which I did 24k miles. Great car, nice performance. Just swapped it for a new GTI with PP and suspension pack (heart won!) - less MPG but what a difference - the GTD was good but the GTI is superb!
-
I'm hopefully ordering a gti pp today :grin: