GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: ffrank on 19 November 2015, 11:22
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Hey all - some of the recent threads and a change in my mileage have got me thinking, now could be a good time to take advantage of the good deals on a GTI.
I changed jobs in May and went from 2000 miles a month to maybe 500 - if that.
I still love my GTD but I'm getting concious of a very noticeable increase in DPF regen's (normally with the fan going when I stop due to lacking frequent longer journeys), and with my new mileage a petrol would obviously be ideal.
I also do rather fancy a GTI, and possibly a swap to DSG from manual (thanks in part to the go kart fun in my wife's DSG Polo).
Although the current discounts are great, and buying on PCP the interest and VW loyalty bonus look great - I'm not sure what I could expect to P/X my car for.
I've been in touch with the local dealership I bought the car from (I trust them and they gave me 11% or so discount originally), and they've told me that in March my car will be valued at.....
£16250 :shocked: :shocked:
This also included the loyalty bonus, so in effect the car valuation in March, for a 2 year car, is £15250. :shocked: :shocked:
My car is a 14 plate Night Blue GTD, with 20,500 miles and pretty decent spec:
Panoramic sunroof, Adaptive chassis, Dynaudio, Winter Pack, Navigation, Reverse Camera, Rear Airbags, Keyless, 3 year servicing and 4 year warranty (not sure if those transfer) [edit - and sport and sound pack!]
The reason I was expecting a better part-ex is my 4 year GFV is £12480, which is only £2770 less than the above 2 year price. :huh:
Am I misunderstanding the GFV? What happens at the end of my 4 years, can VW offer me a part ex offer lower than my GFV? In that case I will be negative equity?? I know you can hand the car back to the finance company if it comes to it.
The dealer has advised I sell private, but I'm trying to understand my options and how they compare to my options at the end of the 4 years.
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That is a shocking loss in value :shocked: If it's any consolation, I lost 11K on my R in 13 months (based on invoice price vs part ex value, so technically I didn't actually lose that much) - but unfortunately that's the market at the moment. So unless you're desperate to change to a GTI, and are prepared to lose that much, I'd stick with your GTD. I am seriously shocked at the part ex figure they're giving you though, as your GTD is extremly well specced.
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Thanks Matchboy, it's a little bewildering and that's a pretty horrendous year one on the R price too!
I'm definitely not prepared to take a big hit, if anything I was expecting to perhaps drop a few options on a GTI and end up near enough break even in terms of requiring additional deposit/adjusting monthlies.
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Hi Dan,
That's a poor trade in value. The GFV figure is the guaranteed price that you owe to buy the car outright. It is also the guaranteed price they will offer you for your car so in effect you are handing it back and walking away if that's all they give you.
However the PCP is set up so come the end of its term you should have some equity in your car. I'm sure both my PCP trade-ins have seen me get around £1500 in equity so don't worry about being in negative equity.
I would try elsewhere for a trade in price.
The loyalty bonus coupled with the dealer contribution and going through a broker and selling your car privately might be better for you.
I'm in the middle of getting quotes for a GTI for my wife as its too good to let slip by.
With the above, I can get a new GTI with some extras for £21,956 which is an absolute steal.
In saying the above though, if you can get a brand new GTI for that price then it must effect the price of second hand cars.
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Hi Dan,
That's a poor trade in value. The GFV figure is the guaranteed price that you owe to buy the car outright. It is also the guaranteed price they will offer you for your car so in effect you are handing it back and walking away if that's all they give you.
However the PCP is set up so come the end of its term you should have some equity in your car. I'm sure both my PCP trade-ins have seen me get around £1500 in equity so don't worry about being in negative equity.
I would try elsewhere for a trade in price.
The loyalty bonus coupled with the dealer contribution and going through a broker and selling your car privately might be better for you.
I'm in the middle of getting quotes for a GTI for my wife as its too good to let slip by.
With the above, I can get a new GTI with some extras for £21,956 which is an absolute steal.
In saying the above though, if you can get a brand new GTI for that price then it must effect the price of second hand cars.
What spec is this GTI and where have you got the price from? They are a steal at the minute, but like you said, the GMFV does seem to have also taken a hit
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Hi Dan,
That's a poor trade in value. The GFV figure is the guaranteed price that you owe to buy the car outright. It is also the guaranteed price they will offer you for your car so in effect you are handing it back and walking away if that's all they give you.
However the PCP is set up so come the end of its term you should have some equity in your car. I'm sure both my PCP trade-ins have seen me get around £1500 in equity so don't worry about being in negative equity.
I would try elsewhere for a trade in price.
The loyalty bonus coupled with the dealer contribution and going through a broker and selling your car privately might be better for you.
I'm in the middle of getting quotes for a GTI for my wife as its too good to let slip by.
With the above, I can get a new GTI with some extras for £21,956 which is an absolute steal.
In saying the above though, if you can get a brand new GTI for that price then it must effect the price of second hand cars.
Thanks Stevie, that really is a great price on a GTI isn't it - which makes it worth having a think about anyway!!
A number of my options are now included as standard (Nav and winter pack), so I could definitely bring my monthly payment down whilst getting a new car (and a more suitable car for my driving now). Hmm, might do some more calcs later on DTD and the VW calc.
Do you (or anyone) have experience selling a car like this privately? I've only ever sold cheap n cheerful motors on autotrader!
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I've just run a CAP valuation on your car ffrank and although I don't have the full details and am assuming manual trans then yes, it books at between £16,500 and £17,700 at top book price right now.
What a dealer actually offers you will depend on what they think they can sell it on for in a jittery market at a quiet time of year.
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ffrank: I'd stick with the GTD for that money, get a DTUK box if you haven't already got one, get some decent tyres (if you have Bridgestones) and enjoy a car quicker than a stock GTI everywhere but off the line. Keep it for the 4 years and sell privately for £12-13k.
Alternatively i'd try another dealer. For an effective £15250 p/x, i'd expect the dealership to be selling tidy 2 year old examples for £18300 to get their healthy 20% mark-up. Did you see how much they're going for there? Bet they're up for around £21k.
Seems that your dealer is being very cautious and greedy at the same time.
Give it 6 months and all this will have blown over - look at all the recalls Toyota had a while back, for major safety concerns too. Most people care more about how much that car is going to cost to run rather than how dirty its emissions are. We still have Vauxhall Zafiras bursting into flames yet Vauxhall still won't recall, and yet VW is in the spotlight more.
If things don't recover on the residuals front, i'll be loathed to buy VW again and get an Audi next time as the blinkered UK public hasn't realised that VW and Audi are the same company with the same range of engines and engine management software.
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Selling it privately only really works if you've got the capital to pay off the PCP first. But even then it would still be quite a limited market as most others people would want to be able to PX their old car or take finance!
It is definitely a good time to buy, just not such a good time to sell! Really comes down to whether you feel you're getting value from the extra expenditure.
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I went through the same thing as ffrank over the last week or so. My car is similar and will be two years old next March.
But they are not really 'giving' anything....it simply boils down to an attempt to offset the poor residuals that are being quoted at the worst time of year.
I am almost resigned to taking my PCP to term and handing back (but even then there will be a mileage penalty which will force me to look for another disposal route).
I console myself that the GTD is still a great car and the spec I chose largely keeps it above the upgraded standard current spec
so it still feels 'new' - at least it does just after a good detail :-)
Whether I would buy on PCP again - I think probably not - the leasing deals are just too attractive and there is no disposal drama at the end to look forward to either.
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That's shocking p/x deal got 20k for my sept 2014 GTD only extras nav and deep black pearl paint against new PP GTI standard apart fro car net and 95% tint windows . Car delivered 20th October also got the lower APR so actually paying less than I did for my GTD per month !!! Would just look at what another dealer would offer. My old GTD is up for 24k which is very optimistic .
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I got £18350 for my GTD p/x against my R 3 weeks ago. My GTD was 3 Door manual, no extras with 14k miles.
Dealer currently has it advertised for £20750, if you take into account a potential buyer knocking that price down to £20k, and it needed 2 new tyres, they aren't making a whole pile tbh
Before I got rid of the car I put my details into WBAC.com and they offered me £18500 (which I thought was great), as soon as the diesel scandal hit the value dropped about £3k :sad:
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Thanks for all your recent experiences everyone, interesting to see some of the prices you've had - and wholly depressing to see the difference the VW scandal has made to WBAC pricing - which is surely a fairly good measure of the market as a whole (seeing as they sell to auctions). We are all getting a bit screwed by VW's **** up at the moment... if selling!
I was expecting close to 20k which coincides with my finance settlement, as I presumed the dealer would chuck it up for 22k or so. I'll definitely speak to a few others and see what else comes back.
I've just run a CAP valuation on your car ffrank and although I don't have the full details and am assuming manual trans then yes, it books at between £16,500 and £17,700 at top book price right now.
What a dealer actually offers you will depend on what they think they can sell it on for in a jittery market at a quiet time of year.
Thanks Exonian, that's cool of you. Based on £16500 the car has lost close to 50% in 18 months, pretty shocking - do the CAP valuations vary from day to day (i.e. are they affected by the market... and :sick: diesel gate? )
ffrank: I'd stick with the GTD for that money, get a DTUK box if you haven't already got one, get some decent tyres (if you have Bridgestones) and enjoy a car quicker than a stock GTI everywhere but off the line. Keep it for the 4 years and sell privately for £12-13k.
Alternatively i'd try another dealer. For an effective £15250 p/x, i'd expect the dealership to be selling tidy 2 year old examples for £18300 to get their healthy 20% mark-up. Did you see how much they're going for there? Bet they're up for around £21k.
I may well do that (the keeping it part), will see what prices look like over the next month I guess. I do already have a DTUK and much improved tyres, and yes - no complaints about the car's performance! Just doesn't get many longer journeys any more.
The dealer doesn't have any MK7 GTD's for sale currently, but get this - I just looked and they have a 2012 MK6 GTD with 25k miles selling for 18,490!! Salt to the wound that one... So yeah, I'm sure they would have my car up for 21/22 easy - not a bad mark up - especially when I am buying another!
I went through the same thing as ffrank over the last week or so. My car is similar and will be two years old next March.
But they are not really 'giving' anything....it simply boils down to an attempt to offset the poor residuals that are being quoted at the worst time of year.
I am almost resigned to taking my PCP to term and handing back (but even then there will be a mileage penalty which will force me to look for another disposal route).
I console myself that the GTD is still a great car and the spec I chose largely keeps it above the upgraded standard current spec
so it still feels 'new' - at least it does just after a good detail :-)
Whether I would buy on PCP again - I think probably not - the leasing deals are just too attractive and there is no disposal drama at the end to look forward to either.
Ah, we're in the same boat then Mark - I'm of the same mind - I do love the car still and having it for another year or 2 is no hardship, but I do feel a bit concious of my lack of longer journeys. I'm not sure whether to go for a GTI test drive or not, as that may or may not help matters! What have you been thinking of changing to yourself?
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I was expecting close to 20k which coincides with my finance settlement, as I presumed the dealer would chuck it up for 22k or so.
Thats the problem Dan, DTD can do these for just over £24k which is only £2k more than what you are expecting a dealer to sell second hand.
If you chuck in the loyalty £1k then you are only talking of £1k of a difference for someone to order a brand new car with the MY16 extras as standard which may be better equipped than the second hand car. Plus you also get a longer warranty and possibly better finance figures on the APR.
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CAP prices are updated monthly in general as they collate information from various industry sources and that takes time.
A bit like VW's own shares prices on the stock market, the actual value of a newer used VW will be affected by panic situations like we've just experienced, so although a car might have a £16k book price for 28 days or so, the real value might be significantly different due to dealers underwriters not risking a gamble in a jittery market situation.
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Or what about an R for £190 a month :laugh:
https://www.contracthireandleasing.com/car-leasing-companies/independent-brokers/carleasing-online/volkswagen/golf/70921380/
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Thanks, Exonian - good to know. would be interesting to see a graph of VW CAP pricing over the last few months!!
I was expecting close to 20k which coincides with my finance settlement, as I presumed the dealer would chuck it up for 22k or so.
Thats the problem Dan, DTD can do these for just over £24k which is only £2k more than what you are expecting a dealer to sell second hand.
If you chuck in the loyalty £1k then you are only talking of £1k of a difference for someone to order a brand new car with the MY16 extras as standard which may be better equipped than the second hand car. Plus you also get a longer warranty and possibly better finance figures on the APR.
That's true, but I think most dealers are already selling used close to DTD prices - 2 out of 3 of my local dealers couldn't even give me more than 5% off a new car! I mean look at the MK6 price I posted above - it's £3k more than the part ex price for my fully loaded lower mileage MK7! I think private sale may be the way to go.
Or what about an R for £190 a month :laugh:
https://www.contracthireandleasing.com/car-leasing-companies/independent-brokers/carleasing-online/volkswagen/golf/70921380/
Ha ha wow, by my calcs it comes to £357 a month - which is actually £6 a month less than my current payment! Tempting, but selling my car right now seems unlikely (for a good price), waiting 4 months for a GTI let's me sell the car when everyone has forgotten all about VW - and are angry at the new scandal from *insert car manufacturer*. Not sure how I feel about a 1 year lease either, but could work out well I guess - will always be another good offer around in a year?
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Indeed - the key issue is disposal of current car - there are no end of bargains out there if you are buying unencumbered...
Yes I was also looking at a GTI PP - love the 'idea' of an R but cant justify the extra cost for less kit (performance upgrade aside).
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Thanks, Exonian - good to know. would be interesting to see a graph of VW CAP pricing over the last few months!!
I was expecting close to 20k which coincides with my finance settlement, as I presumed the dealer would chuck it up for 22k or so.
Thats the problem Dan, DTD can do these for just over £24k which is only £2k more than what you are expecting a dealer to sell second hand.
If you chuck in the loyalty £1k then you are only talking of £1k of a difference for someone to order a brand new car with the MY16 extras as standard which may be better equipped than the second hand car. Plus you also get a longer warranty and possibly better finance figures on the APR.
That's true, but I think most dealers are already selling used close to DTD prices - 2 out of 3 of my local dealers couldn't even give me more than 5% off a new car! I mean look at the MK6 price I posted above - it's £3k more than the part ex price for my fully loaded lower mileage MK7! I think private sale may be the way to go.
Or what about an R for £190 a month :laugh:
https://www.contracthireandleasing.com/car-leasing-companies/independent-brokers/carleasing-online/volkswagen/golf/70921380/
Ha ha wow, by my calcs it comes to £357 a month - which is actually £6 a month less than my current payment! Tempting, but selling my car right now seems unlikely (for a good price), waiting 4 months for a GTI let's me sell the car when everyone has forgotten all about VW - and are angry at the new scandal from *insert car manufacturer*. Not sure how I feel about a 1 year lease either, but could work out well I guess - will always be another good offer around in a year?
Unfortunately ffrank, I think VW CAP pricing over the last few months probably looks something like this:-
____________ ____________
\ /
\ /
\____ ____/
\ though it'll probably recover to: /
\ /
\_________ ________/
Seriously though, I'm not sure how much broker sites affect second hand values. I've specc'ed up cars on Autoebid, DtD, Carwow, etc that are available new for less than you can get some of the second hand/ pre-registered ones that are out there. Seriously. I think broker sites are (currently) used by a pretty small percent of the car buying public in general.
I'm not in the trade though, so my opinion could be waaay off. :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:
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Seriously. I think broker sites are (currently) used by a pretty small percent of the car buying public in general.
Spot on here. My Wife's Aunty thinks she's got a great deal if she pays list then gets free mudflaps, rubber mats and a full tank of fuel when she picks up a new low end Peugeot 206/207/208 every 3 years.
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Seriously. I think broker sites are (currently) used by a pretty small percent of the car buying public in general.
Spot on here. My Wife's Aunty thinks she's got a great deal if she pays list then gets free mudflaps, rubber mats and a full tank of fuel when she picks up a new low end Peugeot 206/207/208 every 3 years.
Do the right thing and let your Aunty in on the broker secret just don't tell anyone else :whistle:
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Seriously. I think broker sites are (currently) used by a pretty small percent of the car buying public in general.
Spot on here. My Wife's Aunty thinks she's got a great deal if she pays list then gets free mudflaps, rubber mats and a full tank of fuel when she picks up a new low end Peugeot 206/207/208 every 3 years.
Do the right thing and let your Aunty in on the broker secret just don't tell anyone else :whistle:
I've tried, but she thinks that salesman she always deals with is her best mate. Admittedly he gives a decent p/x price - i've told her more than once that I could probably make her at least a grand better off for the £9k car she buys.
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Seriously. I think broker sites are (currently) used by a pretty small percent of the car buying public in general.
Spot on here. My Wife's Aunty thinks she's got a great deal if she pays list then gets free mudflaps, rubber mats and a full tank of fuel when she picks up a new low end Peugeot 206/207/208 every 3 years.
Do the right thing and let your Aunty in on the broker secret just don't tell anyone else :whistle:
I've tried, but she thinks that salesman she always deals with is her best mate. Admittedly he gives a decent p/x price - i've told her more than once that I could probably make her at least a grand better off for the £9k car she buys.
Similar story with my My Dad who is 80 and has a love for the Skoda Yeti. He has bought three so far and if he gets a reasonable trade in he thinks he has done a deal . He does not get any discount on the new car. Told him I could save him :cry: three grand but if the salesman is a nice guy he does not worry.
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Some balance needed here - if you get a fantastic trade in and no discount you are doing sort of OK. If you get a fantastic discount and lousy trade in you are doing sort of OK.
If you want an 'amazing' deal you will have to get both - but thats going to be at two different places - one of them most likely being a private buyer....
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Some balance needed here - if you get a fantastic trade in and no discount you are doing sort of K. If you get a fantastic discount and lousy trade in you are doing sort of OK.
If you want an 'amazing' deal you will have to get both - but thats going to be at two different places - one of them most likely being a private buyer....
Yes of course. Its the cost to change that you need to consider. I have always sold my cars privately, then approached the dealer. Most people like the convenience of exchanging on the same day at the dealers as don't want to be left without a car for a period of time , fair enough; but you are unlikely to get the very best deal.
My Dad is 80 , older people become invisible to society , unless of course they are spending money . Was that too cynical . A nice friendly dealer makes us feel good. :smiley:
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Some balance needed here - if you get a fantastic trade in and no discount you are doing sort of K. If you get a fantastic discount and lousy trade in you are doing sort of OK.
If you want an 'amazing' deal you will have to get both - but thats going to be at two different places - one of them most likely being a private buyer....
It does seem though that this loyalty offer is being negated by ridiculously low GFVs. Ffrank has been offered in effect the GFV that early GTDs had at 3 years old, for a 2 year old example, and with a raft of options on it (which admittedly would retain only 20% of their initial value at best). And who has ever just got GFV when they trade in? I usually expect £1500 more than the published GFV.
The current GFV for a 2 year old GTD 5 door manual is £14967 on the finance part of the website. With that in mind, accounting for £500 expected for the extras and expecting at least £1000 more than GFV, Ffrank should be looking at a realistic £16500 p/x price (not including the loyalty discount) considering the current circumstances that VW face (the GFV quoted takes that into account) To be offered £15250, that's no deal at all.
If the VW garage expect him to hand his car over for £15250 and sell it for any more than £18k, they're being exceedingly greedy - I doubt it will be up on the forecourt for less than £21k with a view to accepting £20k.
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Some balance needed here - if you get a fantastic trade in and no discount you are doing sort of K. If you get a fantastic discount and lousy trade in you are doing sort of OK.
If you want an 'amazing' deal you will have to get both - but thats going to be at two different places - one of them most likely being a private buyer....
It does seem though that this loyalty offer is being negated by ridiculously low GFVs. Ffrank has been offered in effect the GFV that early GTDs had at 3 years old, for a 2 year old example, and with a raft of options on it (which admittedly would retain only 20% of their initial value at best). And who has ever just got GFV when they trade in? I usually expect £1500 more than the published GFV.
The current GFV for a 2 year old GTD 5 door manual is £14967 on the finance part of the website. With that in mind, accounting for £500 expected for the extras and expecting at least £1000 more than GFV, Ffrank should be looking at a realistic £16500 p/x price (not including the loyalty discount) considering the current circumstances that VW face (the GFV quoted takes that into account) To be offered £15250, that's no deal at all.
If the VW garage expect him to hand his car over for £15250 and sell it for any more than £18k, they're being exceedingly greedy - I doubt it will be up on the forecourt for less than £21k with a view to accepting £20k.
Yes, thanks for doing some figures Matt - exactly my thoughts. I was likely a bit ambitious with what I was expecting, but what I have been offered really is low - I am off to another dealer tomorrow for a GTI test drive (looking forward to that!) and will see what they suggest as a P/X price. But as Mark suggests - getting a broker deal and selling to highest bidder (private no doubt) would likely be the best combo.
Dan
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Test drive day!
Choosing my GTD was easy - I needed a lot of practicality whilst maintaining some sportiness and the driving experience, wanted low running costs and planned on eating a lot of miles. It was a perfect compromise, and I didn't at the time think anything else came close (1 series remains on the ugly shelf for me).
Now that I am thinking of doing low miles and switching to a petrol, it's a bit tougher and slightly dangerous...
I went out to drive a GTI today (booked with local dealer), and decided to drop in on BMW and Jaguar to compare their higher end petrol offerings (which with discounts are R money near enough).
GTI Manual, Non-PP
The biggest difference for me against my GTD (with DTUK), was that sweet revving engine. It was really good, as many of you obviously know! The car felt at times quicker but at times like I had caught it off guard - but this is simply learning a different driving style and nothing more. On one occasion I slipped past a slow vehicle on a 2 lane motorway joining ramp, and slipping from 2nd to 3rd gear and revving to the redline was very sweet and smooth - grin inducing indeed. Also, accelerating through the gears from 1st-4th is very smooth with a much more linear feel than the GTD, which is likely as quick with the DTUK - but the GTI felt quicker as the linear and high revving engine just provided a bit more drama. This was in normal mode too, so soundakter was off.
If I went for a GTI I think I would be tempted to go for a PP manual and quite possibly a DTUK box (I would no doubt be re-reading some threads on here / bugging people for their recent experiences with this combo!)
The roads were damp today but traction was ok for me, I'm aware traction could be an issue with the above - but I'm not too worried about this, I'm used to being a little careful with the current car in the wet (for 1st and 2nd gear), and hopefully I would get decent tyres from the factory (not sure what is being shipped currently?)
I love the heritage of the GTI, I haven't owned one but I was bought up in a house with my Dad going through a series of Peugeot GTI 205 1.9's and the idea of continuing the tradition in all but marque is very appealing!
R Manual
This was a last minute decision, but they had one and it would have been rude not to? Driving the GTI felt like my car in all but the engine, just driving through the carpark in the R and the car felt different (unless this was just the turning circle!) you could tell something was going on with the 4 corners - and it felt awesome. I did the exact same route as the GTI - 10 miles of dual carriageway and A roads.
This car is an animal :evil: As I think Monkeyhanger said somewhere, there's initially not a lot under 4000rpm (felt quite flat to me when I first prodded the gas after getting an oil temp), but once going it is amazingly fast. Red lining and then changing gear takes your breath away a little, as the next gear just eats up the road in front of you. I reached very naughty speeds very quickly.
In traffic and driving sedately it feels just like another Golf, so it really does provide the best of both worlds and I can see it's great appeal to the many converts here.
For me, I'm not sure - it almost felt too fast for me. Is that possible, I don't know. But I guess it's the fastest car I have ever driven, so would probably need a longer drive to come to a real conclusion about owning one.
I would have one in limestone grey with prets.
DSG vs Manual
The only DSG (an R) was at home with a manager so I couldn't compare DSG and Manual today. All I have to go on is my wife's 1.2 TSI DSG Polo, which drives like a go kart! But I must say I did love the gear changes in both the GTI and R, and as I am looking for a fairly low mileage replacement car a manual does tick the boxes for me. I often wish I had a DSG (pootling around town or in traffic) but for sheer engagement a manual still does it for me. I think on balance I would likely save the £1400 and stay manual for now.
BMW 340i
Hmm, my local BMW told me they rarely have anything above a 320i in the petrol stakes. They did have a rather stunning (but pretty brash) M3 in the show room, but nothing worth driving. "Will call me if anything comes in", we'll see. The 340i can be had for under 30k as a manual with no options (broadspeed), so I do want to investigate this a bit further as it's a lot of car for the money.
Jaguar XE R-Sport 240bhp
I wanted to drive this and the XE S 3.0 V6, but this car was with a customer for the day. The 240bhp variant was a really good drive - felt very flat through the corners (and saleperson-handle-gripping roundabouts), it also had what seemed to be the tiniest lag and picked up rev's in no time. The initial lurch forward took me by surprise a few times, and the car reached unrepeatable speeds joining the motorway in seemingly no time at all - but it was all rather undramatic. The refinement belies the speed you are going. Although strangely, as refined as the car is it does have more wind noise than the golf (unless it's just more noticeable due to the rest of the noise being more detached).
The biggest problem with this car for me is the engine sound, and lack of any exhaust sound in the cabin. The engine sounds quite whiney - I know it's a 4 cylinder, but maybe I have been spoilt to the rather sweet sounding VW engines (with and without soundakter/sport and sound).
The 240 with a sports exhaust (I think after market is only option), could be nice - it's a very competent drive.
The cabin is nice but I'm not sure I like it as much as the Golf, the plastics look kinda cheap around the centre consoles? What I do like about the cabin is the large bonnet hump in front, you feel like you are driving a muscle car - although a V6 under the hood would complement this feeling rather better!
Again, I'm not convinced an auto box is for me - which is the only option for this car. The engine note may have put me off (you kind of will it to change gear a bit quicker and put the engine out of it's suggested misery), so will be interesting to see what I think of the box in the V6 when I get a chance to drive that.
Other showroom highlights of the day:
V8 F-Type and BMW i8, 2 of the most beautiful cars in recent years I feel!
I'm just waiting on trade in prices from VW and Jaguar now, which will help show what might be possible without going too silly with losing money on my GTD.
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Nice write up! Sounds like the GTI is doing well so far. I could be tempted by an R but I do still think my GTI has enough performance but key for me, as you have also mentioned, is the heritage and especially the tartan seats! What finally convinced me were the red LEDs in the doors - after that the test drive was a mere formality!
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ffrank - i'd be looking at the R if I were you, otherwise you might be getting a PP GTI and wishing you'd got an R in 6 months time! That car is insane above 4k revs. I overtook 2 cars and a bus uphill in 1 maneuver on a very long straight road (could see 1/2 a mile ahead) the other day, it was as if they were standing still. 35 to 85mph (for the momentum, drifted back down to 70 as soon as I was clear of the bus) was achieved very quickly.
For me at least, unless mine gives me further (major) trouble, I could see myself keeping it a fair while, knowing i'll not get anything quicker or better equipped at its price-point, and I have my 5 year warranty to fall back on. Might wait it out until the MK8 before changing.
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Had a part ex price from the test drive dealership - £17,100 trade in book price but they would bump to £18,100. Adding the loyalty discount takes it to £19,100 so close enough to £3k more p/x price over my supplying dealer.
Nice write up! Sounds like the GTI is doing well so far. I could be tempted by an R but I do still think my GTI has enough performance but key for me, as you have also mentioned, is the heritage and especially the tartan seats! What finally convinced me were the red LEDs in the doors - after that the test drive was a mere formality!
Ha ha thanks Watts, now if only the LED's phased from white to red when you engaged sport (is that a SEAT thing?) The GTI is a great proposition though indeed.
ffrank - i'd be looking at the R if I were you, otherwise you might be getting a PP GTI and wishing you'd got an R in 6 months time! That car is insane above 4k revs. I overtook 2 cars and a bus uphill in 1 maneuver on a very long straight road (could see 1/2 a mile ahead) the other day, it was as if they were standing still. 35 to 85mph (for the momentum, drifted back down to 70 as soon as I was clear of the bus) was achieved very quickly.
For me at least, unless mine gives me further (major) trouble, I could see myself keeping it a fair while, knowing i'll not get anything quicker or better equipped at its price-point, and I have my 5 year warranty to fall back on. Might wait it out until the MK8 before changing.
It's an amazing machine to drive - I'm sure it would wow me even further with some longer drives. But, I've missed some great deals on the R and in comparison to the frankly amazing deals now on the GTI, it's a lot more money (£140 a month more before even thinking about the lower spec). If I consider paying that much more I'm immediately thinking of other cars as the thought of an all new car seems to justify to me the bigger spend - even if the R is as good as any other 30-40k car for driving enjoyment.
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Test drive day!
Choosing my GTD was easy - I needed a lot of practicality whilst maintaining some sportiness and the driving experience, wanted low running costs and planned on eating a lot of miles. It was a perfect compromise, and I didn't at the time think anything else came close (1 series remains on the ugly shelf for me).
Now that I am thinking of doing low miles and switching to a petrol, it's a bit tougher and slightly dangerous...
I went out to drive a GTI today (booked with local dealer), and decided to drop in on BMW and Jaguar to compare their higher end petrol offerings (which with discounts are R money near enough).
GTI Manual, Non-PP
The biggest difference for me against my GTD (with DTUK), was that sweet revving engine. It was really good, as many of you obviously know! The car felt at times quicker but at times like I had caught it off guard - but this is simply learning a different driving style and nothing more. On one occasion I slipped past a slow vehicle on a 2 lane motorway joining ramp, and slipping from 2nd to 3rd gear and revving to the redline was very sweet and smooth - grin inducing indeed. Also, accelerating through the gears from 1st-4th is very smooth with a much more linear feel than the GTD, which is likely as quick with the DTUK - but the GTI felt quicker as the linear and high revving engine just provided a bit more drama. This was in normal mode too, so soundakter was off.
If I went for a GTI I think I would be tempted to go for a PP manual and quite possibly a DTUK box (I would no doubt be re-reading some threads on here / bugging people for their recent experiences with this combo!)
The roads were damp today but traction was ok for me, I'm aware traction could be an issue with the above - but I'm not too worried about this, I'm used to being a little careful with the current car in the wet (for 1st and 2nd gear), and hopefully I would get decent tyres from the factory (not sure what is being shipped currently?)
I love the heritage of the GTI, I haven't owned one but I was bought up in a house with my Dad going through a series of Peugeot GTI 205 1.9's and the idea of continuing the tradition in all but marque is very appealing!
R Manual
This was a last minute decision, but they had one and it would have been rude not to? Driving the GTI felt like my car in all but the engine, just driving through the carpark in the R and the car felt different (unless this was just the turning circle!) you could tell something was going on with the 4 corners - and it felt awesome. I did the exact same route as the GTI - 10 miles of dual carriageway and A roads.
This car is an animal :evil: As I think Monkeyhanger said somewhere, there's initially not a lot under 4000rpm (felt quite flat to me when I first prodded the gas after getting an oil temp), but once going it is amazingly fast. Red lining and then changing gear takes your breath away a little, as the next gear just eats up the road in front of you. I reached very naughty speeds very quickly.
In traffic and driving sedately it feels just like another Golf, so it really does provide the best of both worlds and I can see it's great appeal to the many converts here.
For me, I'm not sure - it almost felt too fast for me. Is that possible, I don't know. But I guess it's the fastest car I have ever driven, so would probably need a longer drive to come to a real conclusion about owning one.
Everything you describe about a free revving engine is fairly understandable coming from a diesel, the GTi engine isn't really that special but it performs well with the level of usable torque.
You mentioned the pace of the R and also whether it was too fast. It is possibly too fast for having fun on UK roads at legal speeds and accomplished cars do this. but accomplished in terms of pace doesn't suit everyone, If everyone only wanted grip/pace and nothing else the MX5, GT86 wouldn't be made. Thankfully some manufacturers offer something different than the ever increasing Uber German thrust for all out power beyond all other considerations.
I went from faster cars to the GTi as I was bored of driving at normal speeds with a cars that could do 2 1/2 times the speed limit. I started to resent the cars as I could only get them to come alive on track days or at life changing speeds on the road. sprinting up a slip road and backing off to join traffic is not my idea of fun driving in any car anymore and the R would have been the same to me. If you think you would want the R, seriously look into it, it has the pace and the VW badge that Ford and Renault desire. if you want a little balance then the GTi might be a good option between your existing GTD and the R.
I guess most will say the R but i just want to add some balance
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Thanks for that Jackie Treehorn, very interesting perspective to read, much appreciated.
I am definitely leaning towards the GTI, it seems the right package for me, for now at least - and at the current discounts it would need a very strong leaning of my heart to the R to ignore the GTI's appeal.
I won't be adverse to a tuning box on the GTI, but likewise I may find it the performance sweetspot for me in standard guise.
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Very true Jackie, as famously James Hunt used to run around in an Austin A35 van. I'm certainly not knocking the R and I can imagine the driving experience is quite something but I doubt I'd keep my licence for long! I find keeping my GTI at sensible speeds tricky enough as it picks up speed quickly and with it being so refined I just don't realise.
Ffrank - many on here praise the DTUK pedal box as a way of sharpening up the GTI driving experience, perhaps that is worth considering? Plus there is no risk of overwhelming other components and probably no cost on your insurance.
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I would just add that if you do lean towards a GTi, I would consider the Performance pack version, the diff is worth every penny, the borg warner unit is very clever.
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Had a part ex price from the test drive dealership - £17,100 trade in book price but they would bump to £18,100. Adding the loyalty discount takes it to £19,100 so close enough to £3k more p/x price over my supplying dealer.
That's a result. Has it made you give serious consideration to changing?
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Had a part ex price from the test drive dealership - £17,100 trade in book price but they would bump to £18,100. Adding the loyalty discount takes it to £19,100 so close enough to £3k more p/x price over my supplying dealer.
That's a result. Has it made you give serious consideration to changing?
Yeah thanks, much more like I was expecting! I'm 95% certain I'm going to order a GTI PP, (yep, agreed I think the diff is worth it let alone better brakes Jackie) in tungston silver!! :D Going to try the brokers tomorrow.
How about you Stevie? I think the offer is until jan 30th so we've got a bit of time. But if I order now it should be a March car which is obviously ideal for a 16 plate.
Ffrank - many on here praise the DTUK pedal box as a way of sharpening up the GTI driving experience, perhaps that is worth considering? Plus there is no risk of overwhelming other components and probably no cost on your insurance.
Not a bad idea Watts, thanks. I did 10k before adding the dtuk to my GTD, so it's a nice option for the future if I fancy it - but adding a pedalbox now would certainly add some extra difference from the GTD. It was something I fancied but never got round to doing.
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Yeah thanks, much more like I was expecting! I'm 95% certain I'm going to order a GTI PP, (yep, agreed I think the diff is worth it let alone better brakes Jackie) in tungston silver!! :D Going to try the brokers tomorrow.
How about you Stevie? I think the offer is until jan 30th so we've got a bit of time. But if I order now it should be a March car which is obviously ideal for a 16 plate.
I like the brokers price as you know exactly where you stand but the obvious downside is getting rid of your old car.
I've got a few quotes from CarWow and am currently speaking with a localish dealer but yeah I would like to go ahead with it. Sooner than later. Ordering now would be ideal for a March delivery plus to qualify for the loyalty bonus the car must be registered before the end of March.
Its for my Mrs and she's not into cars so I think the PP would be wasted on her. Her only stipulation is Keyless, Heated Seats & possibly Sat Nav. So that just screams GTI to me :smug:
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Yeah thanks, much more like I was expecting! I'm 95% certain I'm going to order a GTI PP, (yep, agreed I think the diff is worth it let alone better brakes Jackie) in tungston silver!! :D Going to try the brokers tomorrow.
How about you Stevie? I think the offer is until jan 30th so we've got a bit of time. But if I order now it should be a March car which is obviously ideal for a 16 plate.
I like the brokers price as you know exactly where you stand but the obvious downside is getting rid of your old car.
I've got a few quotes from CarWow and am currently speaking with a localish dealer but yeah I would like to go ahead with it. Sooner than later. Ordering now would be ideal for a March delivery plus to qualify for the loyalty bonus the car must be registered before the end of March.
Its for my Mrs and she's not into cars so I think the PP would be wasted on her. Her only stipulation is Keyless, Heated Seats & possibly Sat Nav. So that just screams GTI to me :smug:
Ah yes, wasn't too sure if drivethedeal allowed part-ex once you are through to the dealer - guess not due to the volume! At least with carwow you can part exchange with the dealer normally.
The spec is pretty much perfect for Mrs P3asa it would seem! And going for DSG? What are you thinking about colour this time?
We could end up March build buddies then!
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Ah yes, wasn't too sure if drivethedeal allowed part-ex once you are through to the dealer - guess not due to the volume!
Its not that 'don't allow' it as such - its just that in practise the deal they set you up with the supplying VW dealer is fixed on the basis of the new car supply price only. So once you are in contact with the dealer they can either decline to purchase your old car or offer you a derogatory price.
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Ah yes, wasn't too sure if drivethedeal allowed part-ex once you are through to the dealer - guess not due to the volume!
Its not that 'don't allow' it as such - its just that in practise the deal they set you up with the supplying VW dealer is fixed on the basis of the new car supply price only. So once you are in contact with the dealer they can either decline to purchase your old car or offer you a derogatory price.
Yes this is the case. It's down to the supplying dealership to decide. My broker dealer, JCB Medway, said they could give give me a price for my old car (Mk6) but given they've already made the sale on the new car with a hefty discount via the broker (DTD), you can see that you're not likely to be offered the best price on old. I didn't bother getting a price in the end but instead chose to sell privately. Ended up selling to another enthusiast on here. Didn't even advertise the car officially.
Decent price via private sale, great discount via DTD broker. Win, win!
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Ah, thanks both - I'll ask around through carwow and DTD for sure.
Interesting you sold your previous GTI here Booth - I remember it was a rather special GTI, so might be less likely for me with everyone on here being of DTD ilk when it comes to more "bog standard" MK7's, but no harm in a post I suppose if I do end up going private!
Waiting on offers from 4 more dealers now so will be interesting to see.
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Ah, thanks both - I'll ask around through carwow and DTD for sure.
Interesting you sold your previous GTI here Booth - I remember it was a rather special GTI, so might be less likely for me with everyone on here being of DTD ilk when it comes to more "bog standard" MK7's, but no harm in a post I suppose if I do end up going private!
Waiting on offers from 4 more dealers now so will be interesting to see.
No harm at all, nothing to lose ffrank. There was nothing special about my GTI, other than it was looked after and regularly detailed, and had slightly different wheels which weren't everyone's cup of tea (in fact the new owner switched them for Monzas). I was fortunate in having interest from the forum without ever actually advertising or posting an advert up anywhere. I had 2 interested parties via this forum with my GTI - one was someone who came on here looking for a car specifically and loved it but sale did not go ahead for other reasons and then the person who bought it was already a member on here who was posting up links to potential cars for sale asking for people's thoughts. I cheekily told him to forget those and consider mine. Pushy maybe but you have to be and it all worked out for the two of us. :smiley:
The other big upside to being active on this kind of forum and giving regular updates/photos about your car is you are essentially building an online history of it which proved rather useful when it came time to sell privately (provided it's not a history littered with problems!) I'd never sold a car privately until this time but would definitely make that my first option next time round.
If you can sell privately and get a reasonable price and then buy new via a broker with max discount that is the best outcome of all. But be prepared to find an alternative method of off loading your old car if private sale doesn't work out.
I decided to go DTD for the max discount and take a risk and play it by ear getting shot of the GTI. Carwow is the best bet for p/x'ing but for me was not the best on discount. Orangewheels said their 2 UK dealers would not do p/x at all. DTD said no to p/x but the dealership themselves said they would give me a price for my old car. If you must p/x I think Carwow is probably the better route.
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The brokers will usually err on the side of caution when saying that the supplying dealership won't accept part-exes, in reality though most VW dealerships will consider a VW less than 4 years old for their used forecoourt - what they will offer you for it is another matter.
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I purchased my car through drive the deal last year. I have this week made contact with my supplying dealer direct and asked for a price for a new car some spec. They have beaten the DTD price and offered me £18k for a March 2016 trade in. The also said made comment that I would realise more privately.
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DTD said no to p/x but the dealership themselves said they would give me a price for my old car.
When I offered that same dealer my beautiful 18 month old Scirroco GT170 DSG they just turned it down flat - I was actually rather insulted :-(
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DTD said no to p/x but the dealership themselves said they would give me a price for my old car.
When I offered that same dealer my beautiful 18 month old Scirroco GT170 DSG they just turned it down flat - I was actually rather insulted :-(
:sad: I can imagine you were. Did you sell privately in the end, or go elsewhere?
I never got a price for my 3 year old Mk6 GTI in the end, as the opportunity to sell privately came up, but I had prepared myself for the dealer to offer me an insultingly low price.
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I actually sold it to a local VW main dealer for a good price and went ahead with the DtD purchase. It wasn't really the fact they did not want it that annoyed me (they may well have been fully stocked with Scirocco's for all I know) - it was the manner in which they told me. I think the e-mail said something like 'this is not the sort of car we would look to purchase' - like there was something wrong with it!
The dealer that purchased it in the end paid a few hundred quid under my private ad asking price!
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Any more quotes in Dan?
@ Exonian your mailbox is full :laugh:
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Any more quotes in Dan?
@ Exonian your mailbox is full :laugh:
D'oh!
I've cleared a bit of space Steve
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I actually sold it to a local VW main dealer for a good price and went ahead with the DtD purchase. It wasn't really the fact they did not want it that annoyed me (they may well have been fully stocked with Scirocco's for all I know) - it was the manner in which they told me. I think the e-mail said something like 'this is not the sort of car we would look to purchase' - like there was something wrong with it!
The dealer that purchased it in the end paid a few hundred quid under my private ad asking price!
Did you just offer it to the local dealers Mark? I've yet to see if my local dealer are still interested if it's not part of a P/X - they did say they would sell it on their forecourt, so perhaps they would still buy it.
Any more quotes in Dan?
@ Exonian your mailbox is full :laugh:
No more yet mate, I had 5 GTI offers on Carwow, 2 have asked for more info, 1 doesn't do P/X (one of the JCB's) and the other hasn't replied (good service!)
Jag offered me 17k today, so a grand under VW. I'm sure I could negotiate them up a bit... if I buy a Jaaaag.
Test drive update - Jag XE S
Just drove this today. Got to say the Jag sales team at my local dealer are very laid back and friendly, best experience I've had from a dealer so far. A salesperson came with me in the XE 240 Petrol the other day, but today they practically tossed me the S keys and just asked me and a friend to take it out for an hour, and to keep the traction control on (it was soaking).
The S is an awesome car to drive. It's not as loud as I expected (actually sounds louder in the passenger seat strangely), but still has a very sweet and smooth growl when you pull hard in 3rd gear. Revving when stationary does give a lot of exhaust pops which is fun.
Back end was quite lively in the wet, but nothing too hairy. I think on a dry winding A road it would be pretty spectacular.
Best thing about it is the instant power the pedal provides, if you leave the car in manual and just blip the throttle in 2nd or 3rd the car lurches forward instantly - it was very impressive.
Still not sure how I feel about an auto, by all accounts the ZF box is very good (and was totally smooth in all modes), but driving home in my manual GTD afterwards still felt incredibly engaging and fun. The MK7 really is terrific.
The S trip MPG? 14.5mpg :laugh:
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Did you just offer it to the local dealers Mark?
Yes - the dealer in question had serviced the car a few months before so they 'knew' it. I just picked a nice dry day, gave the car a thorough clean and drove it around to them without prior warning. They knew it was a car they could sell right away and took a lot of photos of it. Within a few days they got back to me with a purchase offer which I accepted. I also had a an offer around 1k under my asking price from the used car buyer of a northern dealer chain but declined that.