GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: drisser on 24 November 2014, 18:15
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Hi all
have been away from the forum for a bit but back in the fold for a possible GTi again soon. With all the chatter and road tests about the R being amazing I set up a 2 hour test drive of an R this weekend to see what I thought.
Having got used to Quattro in my TT I do certainly appreciate 4wd and with the impression of the GTi (220) I test drove before I thought it must be irresistable.
Having driven a manual R and a 230 ps GTi DSG back to back on Saturday in wet weather, on the same roads I thought it was an ideal test of usability, so here are my thoughts, given I havent driven a Mk7 Golf for nearly a year now so it was a pretty unbiased comparison -
Looks
Definitely prefer the Gti, no question. I prefer the wheels, dont like the R body kit, prefer the colours on the GTi, especially Carbon Grey which I test drove and was what I ordered before. I dont think the R offers anything visually that the GTi doesn't unless you start ticking expensive options. I am not really that into the 19 inch wheels on the R to be honest but think they look better than the 18s
Performance
Yes no question the R is quicker in traffic light grand prix or on most back roads especially in the wet. It was amazingly rapid on wet B roads. However, I had real problems trying to unstick the Gti PP on the same roads with my foot to the floor, and bear in mind it was wet. I dont think there is a huge torque difference and given I am sure the R is a touch heavier due to the 4wd, above 30mph on boost, I really didn't feel there was much in it, not enough to bother me thats for sure. I would say a good driver in a 230 Gti with DSG would be hard pushed to not keep up with an R - at least in the "real world", maybe less on a track. At the end of the day you can gear a car to make a quick 0-60 quite easily but torque and weight govern in gear acceleration and the PP Gti feels very rapid.
One point regarding DSG, I am a purist and love manual gearboxes. I actually didnt like the manual in the R, because with all that power it was quite jerky on full throttle change. Personally I would go for DSG if I was buying an R, and manual in a GTi. That said the DSG is brilliant and I would definitely consider it in a GTi, especially given my gf has a habit of not changing up from 3rd .. :lipsrsealed:
As for the noise, that actually annoyed me in the R because I knew it was fake/boring/flat. If you can't make an engine with charisma then dont try and fake it. My 5 Cyl Fiat Coupe blows it (and any 4 cylinder) away for engine sound. I think you can turn that gimic off I read, which I would definitely do. Its a sad fact of downsizing I guess that 4 cyl turbo is the norm, 5 and 6 cyl cars are few and far between now but sound so much better.
Handling
The R is amazingly rapid in wet conditions. I was flat out on some greasy B roads and it really is awesome in those conditions I think any supercar would struggle to keep up. That said my TT TDI Q would be quicker than an M 135i in the same wet conditions because the 4WD just gives you confidence, no getting away from that. The R rides a bit harder I think - guessing it sits 10mm lower and maybe stiffer settings ? It felt like it anyway to me. Without 4WD though I thought the Gti PP was also amazing, given it was wet, I really hardly got any wheelspin at full foot to the floor acceleration and it inspired nearly as much confidence. The DSG also probably made up for a bitof the acceleration shortfall v the manual R.
Value
On paper there is only maybe £3k or so between them at base spec, but I think the difference is you need some must have options on the R that arent essential on the GTi - 19 inch alloys (£900 ?) , as I dont think the 18s look great (compared to GTi std alloys). I think the R cloth seats look really low rent in a £30k car so that would mean heated leather - (£2k ?). DSG for me would be essential so thats another £x. No sat nav on a £35k car ? Not likely so thats at least another £750 for basic Nav. Whereas on the GTi I would be very very happy with std alloys and cloth seats and a manual gearbox there is a hefty difference in price. I am pretty confident I can get a really good deal on a GTi right now - at least £1000 discount more than an R so I am sure the net price in my "ideally" specced car is going to be something like £5k difference minimum.
I know a lot of people will say yea its only £5k difference but I like to run a summer / weekend toy and have my Fiat Coupe Turbo for that and you can buy and maintain such a car for 5 years for £5k and I would absolutely have a GTi PP and keep my Fiat rather than just have the R from a cost point of view.
Fuel costs.. horses for courses I guess the R averaged 26 when I had it. I guess the GTi would be 5-6 MPG better but hey ho.
Interior
Not a lot in it really apart from blue v red and as said, I dont like the R cloth seats so I would have to spec leather. VAG annoy me in this respect, they do it with Audi too and price the base 3 dr manual car just at the right price and they know fine well that there are certain must have options. I dont think it is coincidence they clearly put their imagination away when styling the standard cloth R seats because most people speccing a new 30k car will want leather etc etc. They could easily have made really nice Alcantara & half leather or cloth std seats like on the Mk2 TT, that everyone loved and would spec, but they have clearly done this to keep base price low and get you in the showroom..
You also have to compare to non Golf's. At the end of the day you can go not too crazy and spec a Golf R up to well over £35k. Personally I just keep telling myself its too much "for a Golf" no matter how good / effective it is
Image
Tricky one, dont want to offend anyone here.. I think the GTi is more subtle and in the right colours nicely flies under the radar. I think the 4 exhausts on the R shout a bit too loud and I had white van man up my backside in the R when I was driving it.. No question the R is getting great test reviews and the reason i went to drive one was that I was sold on it after reading all of these reviews. The R is no doubt getting a great image with all the car mag reviews, but its just personal taste but I prefer the GTi looks and image.
Overall
First of all, anyone who has an R or is waiting for one, I am sure you will love it and I can totally get it why anyone would order and R. Amazing all weather pace, 4wd, VW build etc etc. it ticks loads of boxes. I think though that the GTi delivers a huge % of that, in a better looking package. I think on the used market, the GTi may well have a wider following due to the more iconic image of the GTI badge. If you only want to run one car then the R is very compelling, but then pretty much every argument you have for the R is equally valid for the GTi, just with 70 BHP less and no 4wd and a small amount but not masses more torque. Is that enough ? Not for me. Now if the R had a Turbo V6 or 5 Cyl and 4wd, you are then making the car quite different, like with the Mk5 GTi v R32. Its pretty sad to say but when I got back in my 15 year old Fiat Coupe and drove off the noise brought much more of a smile to may face than either of the 4 cyl cars. Blame the emissions police for that I guess..
Something, and I cant really put my finger on it, left me a bit cold with the R, a bit like it was conceived and driven by the marketing men more than anything else.. It kind of reminded me why I ordered a PP GTi instead of an M135i - that car was just as quick as an R on the right day, but I just felt I couldnt use all the performance that much of the time, always worrying about police traps etc etc. The amount of time I would really use the difference felt so minimal, when you throw in the extra cost and the fact I genuinely preferred the looks of the GTi, the fact it rides just a bit more comfy, it would be my choice.
I might have a tinge of jealousy if one time in my life I just happened to be next to an R at the traffic lights, but I leave you with this thought... I think it just comes down to price, preference of looks and if you want a really good all rounder or something a touch more hardcore. Personally I could see me "respecting" the R but loving the GTi.... and if I had 30k only to spend, I would absolutely every day of the year buy a 1 year old GTi PP and an E46 BMW M3 (or something similar with more than 4 cylinders) than just have an R.
I think both the GTi and R are awesome all round, practical performance cars though. Before I drove them both, I thought the GTis biggest problem in the car market was the R, given the reviews and hard stats, but having driven them, I came away kind of thinking the R's biggest problem is the GTi.. because it is such a good all rounder.. looks better and costs less.
Hope that didnt offend anyone !
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Enjoyable reading a nearly total eulogy of the 7GTI PP. I am sure it will make many a 7GTI owner feel vindicated with their purchase especially in the face of the 7R's universally accepted daunting superiority.
I felt there was no comparison when I drove the two back to back and I chose the one that has remained head and shoulders above all the competition and it is not the 7GTI PP. Strange you were not dazzled by the 7R magic.
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I think that as a whole the MK7 feels a bit sterile. It is much faster than it feels, maybe it is too polished for me, but i've been VW fan for a very long time, jump from MK6 to MK7 has seen by far the biggest refinement jump between the MKs.
I had far more fun with my 170TDI Scirocco than I have with my MK7 GTD. I have chased the R because it's genuinely rapid, I might get a better sense of performance despite the polished edges.
I have to disagree about the need to spec an R up highly vs a GTI. Is £27k really the threshold beyond which expensive options like 19" wheels, Satnav and leather become essential? The R has everything I want as standard (as did the GTD), An R is still a Golf, I don't need it to feel like a £45k car. To some the GTD and GTI Tartan do not appeal, some get leather purely to not have the Tartan, just as some may not like the R seats. The seats in all 3 performance Golfs let down the interior IMO, the MK6 set had nicer looking seats.
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I agree with many of the points in the original post except for the performance! Having driven a number of different R's and GTI's recently the acceleration in the R is miles ahead of the GTI.
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but only if you are hammering both flat out to the max.. Then for sure you feel the difference, And it's not that often you get the chance to max them out unfortunately..
That was really my main point you can't deny the R is quicker in any road in any condition, but too often the traffic, the police,or something else means you can't wring out 100% of the performance..
I have to say though, at one point I had to scoot past 3 cars and in the wet its an awesome overtaking tool, absolutely amazing.
But for £10k, so is a mk 5 golf R32 that sounds a lot better ? So is a new S3 that has a better GFV than the R now. But don't get me wrong i am not slagging the R off, it's a great car
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Modern cars have a detachment which belies the true performance of the car, and to an extent this is true of both these cars but perhaps marginally more evident in the R than the GTI PP. If you look beyond this the differences become apparent.
Everyone justifies their own choice accordingly so as interesting as reviews like this are, they have limited value. I recall when the mk7 R first came out, a fair few on here vehemently justifying (ultimately to themselves) their choice of the GTI/GTD, only to ditch it at the altar and make off with the R temptress :whistle: :grin:
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have to admit having been in rural Kent the last couple of days loved the 4wd of the R as so sure footed
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I have compared the 7R to the A45 AMG, BMW135i, S3 Sportback and 7GTI PP. The 7R was without doubt the best drivers car followed very, very closely by the M135i, then came the S3 Sportback, then the A45 AMG and last was the 7GTI PP. All cars had Auto/DSG gearboxes.
The A45 AMG was mentally fast but a blunt instrument; plus the dashboard looked horrid. I could not believe how one dimensional the S3 felt compared to the 7R. However, the Audi interior was truly stunning but it looked like a bread van or a truncated hearse. The 7GTI PP was a real slow coach in comparison, not exciting enough and therefore came last in my rankings.
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I think there is a lot of "its the great new thing" syndrome, with the R, ala M135i last year. Great mag reviews, universal aclaim and cheap lease deals. It will wear off though when the civic or something else comes out as is the way of the world.
I have been guilty of buying the latest thing, twice last year with the M135i and the Fiesta ST, but i got bored with them quicker than the length of time I've had the GTI. Also had an R on order pre-GTI and glad i changed, although it is an amazing car.
As MH alludes to, the R is a great financial proposition and it is better value than the GTI hands down.
Am1w - your posting style seems very similar to someone who got themselves banned from the baby bmw forum for being a bit of a pillock. Maybe its just coincidence!
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have to admit having been in rural Kent the last couple of days loved the 4wd of the R as so sure footed
Good to hear that :smiley:
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Perhaps the OP should post his excellent comparative review on the 7R Forum. It would be interesting to read the reactions.
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At the end of the day, its only my opinion, I had a similar reaction after test driving an M135 when I got back the dealer thought I would get the card out for a deposit but I handed the keys back and said I don't like it..
Thankfully everyone is entitled to their view and not everyone likes the same thing. I have a general gripe about how expensive 4 cyl hatches are becoming to be honest, especially new and the gti is no different to the R in This respect. I wonder how much of the decision making is driven by monthly pcp quotes and a certain amount of top trumps discussions on 0-60 times..
Before my TT I ran a 135i coupe with 306 bhp and a pretty good 0-60 but to be honest the diesel TT is just as quick in 70-80 % of the road conditions I ever encounter.
Ifi look at a new gti, or R or an other modern hot hatch I seem to find myself looking at things like a mk5 R32 for £10k and asking, is a mk 7 R really £25k better ?
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Perhaps the OP should post his excellent comparative review on the 7R Forum. It would be interesting to read the reactions.
He would be burned at the stake....Not the friendliest of places. There are around 5 "Mafia" members there whose job it is to haze new members. :grin:
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Perhaps the OP should post his excellent comparative review on the 7R Forum. It would be interesting to read the reactions.
He would be burned at the stake....Not the friendliest of places. There are around 5 "Mafia" members there whose job it is to haze new members. :grin:
Yes, it is one tough forum.
But then there is also the ill mannered and childish RobS23GTI on this thread who finds being abusive cathartic.
Am1w - your posting style seems very similar to someone who got themselves banned from the baby bmw forum for being a bit of a pillock. Maybe its just coincidence!
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Lets not become one of those places...... :whistle:
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Lets not become one of those places...... :whistle:
Anyway, probably smarting that he bought the wrong car! :evil:
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Just making an observation which you didn't refute, so I can't be far off. Didn't take you long to get banned on baby bmw after getting a lot of members backs up.
GTI and R are both great in their own way. As mentioned, I changed my order from an R...
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Just making an observation which you didn't refute, so I can't be far off. Didn't take you long to get banned on baby bmw after getting a lot of members backs up.
GTI and R are both great in their own way. As mentioned, I changed my order from an R...
Wrong. Never had a baby BMW and not familiar with that forum. Anyway, take a chill pill and enjoy your 2W FWD 7GTI.
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Nice write up! Having owned a GTI PP (total 19,000 miles) and now an R (total nearly 2,000) miles, I would disagree with some of your points - however, there's no point as its all down to personal preference - otherwise we'd all be driving the same car and the roads would be a very dull place to be!!
Enjoy your GTI PP - it's a great car and I had the most fun in mine!
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I think that as a whole the MK7 feels a bit sterile. It is much faster than it feels, maybe it is too polished for me, but i've been VW fan for a very long time, jump from MK6 to MK7 has seen by far the biggest refinement jump between the MKs.
I had far more fun with my 170TDI Scirocco than I have with my MK7 GTD. I have chased the R because it's genuinely rapid, I might get a better sense of performance despite the polished edges.
I have to disagree about the need to spec an R up highly vs a GTI. Is £27k really the threshold beyond which expensive options like 19" wheels, Satnav and leather become essential? The R has everything I want as standard (as did the GTD), An R is still a Golf, I don't need it to feel like a £45k car. To some the GTD and GTI Tartan do not appeal, some get leather purely to not have the Tartan, just as some may not like the R seats. The seats in all 3 performance Golfs let down the interior IMO, the MK6 set had nicer looking seats.
Think the best point made here, that continually gets overlooked, is that you are going a lot quicker than the car makes it feel.
Even in my lowly GTD to the discussion or R vs GTI you can look down and find yourself way past where think are speed wise and have to reel it in quite quickly.
My previous 170BHP was flat and steady and then boom as pressed the accellerator.
The MK7 does the same but without all the notable grunt and thrust in doing so and to some expecting that in a performance hatchback it can be quite hard to see past.
With the DCC and DSG the ride is cossetted and smooth but with no less pace and its something come to admire and really like now adjusted to the car.
Have been in a vanilla GTI and experience was pretty much the same and so imagine R even with its added BHP is still going to be pretty refined and something you will have to adjust to.
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Just making an observation which you didn't refute, so I can't be far off. Didn't take you long to get banned on baby bmw after getting a lot of members backs up.
GTI and R are both great in their own way. As mentioned, I changed my order from an R...
Wrong. Never had a baby BMW and not familiar with that forum. Anyway, take a chill pill and enjoy your 2W FWD 7GTI.
AM1W if I were you then I wouldn't come here and rub people up the wrong way.
I wasn't going to say anything but since you're in debate with other forum members then I'll not hold back either.
Firstly it's really annoying that you write 7 infront of GTI and R everytime. We are in the Mk7 section of the forum in a thread talking about the Mk7 GTI and R. We know you're refering to the "7" GTI and r.
Secondly, commenting that the OP should post his review on the R forum to see their reaction is dumb. Obviously the people on the R forum are going to be biased towards the R, it might be something to do with the fact they all drive one...
Thirdly, I think the review is a good and fair one. I would agree that the R is not "miles ahead" of the GTI. It is quicker yes, hugely? No. I'm not going to open another can of worms on this anyway. If we wanted to drive an R we would buy one, if we want to drive a GTI we buy that. Both are great cars and neither are "miles ahead" of the other in any way, shape or form.
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Monsieur Savage:
(1) I will drop the Heavenly 7.
(2) I will always maintain that the R is the better car for my purpose.
(3) There was no intention to rub anyone the wrong way. In fact, I felt I was very restrained. There is more sensitivity here than expected. Just shows the extreme love and protection people show for their particular grown-up perambulators.
(4) I agree that the R, the GTI & (let's not forget) the GTD are good cars.
(5) I felt it would be very educational and interesting for the OP to post his excellent comparative review on the R Forum and fly the flag for the GTI.
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Hi all
have been away from the forum for a bit but back in the fold for a possible GTi again soon. With all the chatter and road tests about the R being amazing I set up a 2 hour test drive of an R this weekend to see what I thought.
Having got used to Quattro in my TT I do certainly appreciate 4wd and with the impression of the GTi (220) I test drove before I thought it must be irresistable.
Having driven a manual R and a 230 ps GTi DSG back to back on Saturday in wet weather, on the same roads I thought it was an ideal test of usability, so here are my thoughts, given I havent driven a Mk7 Golf for nearly a year now so it was a pretty unbiased comparison -
Looks
Definitely prefer the Gti, no question. I prefer the wheels, dont like the R body kit, prefer the colours on the GTi, especially Carbon Grey which I test drove and was what I ordered before. I dont think the R offers anything visually that the GTi doesn't unless you start ticking expensive options. I am not really that into the 19 inch wheels on the R to be honest but think they look better than the 18s
Performance
Yes no question the R is quicker in traffic light grand prix or on most back roads especially in the wet. It was amazingly rapid on wet B roads. However, I had real problems trying to unstick the Gti PP on the same roads with my foot to the floor, and bear in mind it was wet. I dont think there is a huge torque difference and given I am sure the R is a touch heavier due to the 4wd, above 30mph on boost, I really didn't feel there was much in it, not enough to bother me thats for sure. I would say a good driver in a 230 Gti with DSG would be hard pushed to not keep up with an R - at least in the "real world", maybe less on a track. At the end of the day you can gear a car to make a quick 0-60 quite easily but torque and weight govern in gear acceleration and the PP Gti feels very rapid.
One point regarding DSG, I am a purist and love manual gearboxes. I actually didnt like the manual in the R, because with all that power it was quite jerky on full throttle change. Personally I would go for DSG if I was buying an R, and manual in a GTi. That said the DSG is brilliant and I would definitely consider it in a GTi, especially given my gf has a habit of not changing up from 3rd .. :lipsrsealed:
As for the noise, that actually annoyed me in the R because I knew it was fake/boring/flat. If you can't make an engine with charisma then dont try and fake it. My 5 Cyl Fiat Coupe blows it (and any 4 cylinder) away for engine sound. I think you can turn that gimic off I read, which I would definitely do. Its a sad fact of downsizing I guess that 4 cyl turbo is the norm, 5 and 6 cyl cars are few and far between now but sound so much better.
Handling
The R is amazingly rapid in wet conditions. I was flat out on some greasy B roads and it really is awesome in those conditions I think any supercar would struggle to keep up. That said my TT TDI Q would be quicker than an M 135i in the same wet conditions because the 4WD just gives you confidence, no getting away from that. The R rides a bit harder I think - guessing it sits 10mm lower and maybe stiffer settings ? It felt like it anyway to me. Without 4WD though I thought the Gti PP was also amazing, given it was wet, I really hardly got any wheelspin at full foot to the floor acceleration and it inspired nearly as much confidence. The DSG also probably made up for a bitof the acceleration shortfall v the manual R.
Value
On paper there is only maybe £3k or so between them at base spec, but I think the difference is you need some must have options on the R that arent essential on the GTi - 19 inch alloys (£900 ?) , as I dont think the 18s look great (compared to GTi std alloys). I think the R cloth seats look really low rent in a £30k car so that would mean heated leather - (£2k ?). DSG for me would be essential so thats another £x. No sat nav on a £35k car ? Not likely so thats at least another £750 for basic Nav. Whereas on the GTi I would be very very happy with std alloys and cloth seats and a manual gearbox there is a hefty difference in price. I am pretty confident I can get a really good deal on a GTi right now - at least £1000 discount more than an R so I am sure the net price in my "ideally" specced car is going to be something like £5k difference minimum.
I know a lot of people will say yea its only £5k difference but I like to run a summer / weekend toy and have my Fiat Coupe Turbo for that and you can buy and maintain such a car for 5 years for £5k and I would absolutely have a GTi PP and keep my Fiat rather than just have the R from a cost point of view.
Fuel costs.. horses for courses I guess the R averaged 26 when I had it. I guess the GTi would be 5-6 MPG better but hey ho.
Interior
Not a lot in it really apart from blue v red and as said, I dont like the R cloth seats so I would have to spec leather. VAG annoy me in this respect, they do it with Audi too and price the base 3 dr manual car just at the right price and they know fine well that there are certain must have options. I dont think it is coincidence they clearly put their imagination away when styling the standard cloth R seats because most people speccing a new 30k car will want leather etc etc. They could easily have made really nice Alcantara & half leather or cloth std seats like on the Mk2 TT, that everyone loved and would spec, but they have clearly done this to keep base price low and get you in the showroom..
You also have to compare to non Golf's. At the end of the day you can go not too crazy and spec a Golf R up to well over £35k. Personally I just keep telling myself its too much "for a Golf" no matter how good / effective it is
Image
Tricky one, dont want to offend anyone here.. I think the GTi is more subtle and in the right colours nicely flies under the radar. I think the 4 exhausts on the R shout a bit too loud and I had white van man up my backside in the R when I was driving it.. No question the R is getting great test reviews and the reason i went to drive one was that I was sold on it after reading all of these reviews. The R is no doubt getting a great image with all the car mag reviews, but its just personal taste but I prefer the GTi looks and image.
Overall
First of all, anyone who has an R or is waiting for one, I am sure you will love it and I can totally get it why anyone would order and R. Amazing all weather pace, 4wd, VW build etc etc. it ticks loads of boxes. I think though that the GTi delivers a huge % of that, in a better looking package. I think on the used market, the GTi may well have a wider following due to the more iconic image of the GTI badge. If you only want to run one car then the R is very compelling, but then pretty much every argument you have for the R is equally valid for the GTi, just with 70 BHP less and no 4wd and a small amount but not masses more torque. Is that enough ? Not for me. Now if the R had a Turbo V6 or 5 Cyl and 4wd, you are then making the car quite different, like with the Mk5 GTi v R32. Its pretty sad to say but when I got back in my 15 year old Fiat Coupe and drove off the noise brought much more of a smile to may face than either of the 4 cyl cars. Blame the emissions police for that I guess..
Something, and I cant really put my finger on it, left me a bit cold with the R, a bit like it was conceived and driven by the marketing men more than anything else.. It kind of reminded me why I ordered a PP GTi instead of an M135i - that car was just as quick as an R on the right day, but I just felt I couldnt use all the performance that much of the time, always worrying about police traps etc etc. The amount of time I would really use the difference felt so minimal, when you throw in the extra cost and the fact I genuinely preferred the looks of the GTi, the fact it rides just a bit more comfy, it would be my choice.
I might have a tinge of jealousy if one time in my life I just happened to be next to an R at the traffic lights, but I leave you with this thought... I think it just comes down to price, preference of looks and if you want a really good all rounder or something a touch more hardcore. Personally I could see me "respecting" the R but loving the GTi.... and if I had 30k only to spend, I would absolutely every day of the year buy a 1 year old GTi PP and an E46 BMW M3 (or something similar with more than 4 cylinders) than just have an R.
I think both the GTi and R are awesome all round, practical performance cars though. Before I drove them both, I thought the GTis biggest problem in the car market was the R, given the reviews and hard stats, but having driven them, I came away kind of thinking the R's biggest problem is the GTi.. because it is such a good all rounder.. looks better and costs less.
Hope that didnt offend anyone !
Bet you regret posting this now....LOL.....I thought it was a great write up...thanks for your effort.
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I also thought it was a good write up as I find myself contemplating the change to a GTI PP or mk7 R, my head says the mk6 R will be good enough mind.
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MK6 R was looking like an over priced option relative to the 7R.
It is still based on the MK5 whereas the MK7 gives you a new platform whichever vehicle you choose.
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MK6 R was looking like an over priced option relative to the 7R.
It is still based on the MK5 whereas the MK7 gives you a new platform whichever vehicle you choose.
The 7R is far better equipped, more safety kit for lower insurance premiums and MQB handles far better than the old platform. If you can stretch to it the 7 is looking a far better proposition.
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I really want a mk7 R but the cost basically 30k is really putting me off have been looking at the Broadspeeds Orange cars e.t.c.
How I see it at the moment:
My car if I am lucky nearly 5 year old (apr 15) 78k on the clock 10k trade?
All used:
mk6 R low mileage 12 plate - 18-22K
mk7 PP GTI - 23-27k
mk7 R - 29-33k
Not sure I want to spend 20k to change.
I have to admit a good deal on a used (nearly new) GTI PP interests me if I could do it for 12k or something.
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ajmoir36:
If you can stretch to a used/new 7R it would be worth it IMO. Have you also considered a Mk7 GTD?
You could also check with Carcow as they seem to source the best deals for VAG cars.
Two things to consider: the 7R has a smaller boot and has a bit of a thirst.
Best of luck in your quest. Whichever Mk7 performance Golf you end up with, you will be delighted.
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ajmoir36: If you're looking to trade for a MK7, i'd ask myself why - the performance increases, the better ride/handling or the standard kit?
If you trade in a MK6 GTD for a MK7 GTD, the MK7 won't feel much faster (if at all), the refinement does take the edge of the perception of performance even though it will drive nicer. Going petrol to GTI/R is going to feel more different, different way of driving (although not as different as previous petrol variants are, considering the huge jump in torque on the GTI/R to almost GTD levels.
Your car is now old enough to be affordable to a great many people, but its also old enough for the VW dealerships not to be too interested in having it on their used forecourt - it may well be farmed out to auction. With all that in mind, you might get a very poor p/x price and you'd probably get more for it privately, and it shouldn't be as hard to sell privately as say an 18 month old MK7 GTI/GTD.
Before you do anything else you need to find out what the going rate for your current car is when sold privately and traded in (you might get less than £10k offered in p/x). If you sell privately you're in a far better position to chase broker sized discounts on a new one, or maybe you can scour the net for some good early MK7s - a fair few GTIs and GTDs are getting chopped in for Rs right now.
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The reason I am considering the change is I am being made redundant and my 56 mile commute changes to a 12 mile comes and its the first time I dont need a diesel anymore.
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The reason I am considering the change is I am being made redundant and my 56 mile commute changes to a 12 mile comes and its the first time I dont need a diesel anymore.
Sorry to hear that. But every cloud has a silver lining.
Have you thought about leasing options?
Good GTD deals around.
http://www.allvehiclecontracts.co.uk/Quotation/New_Cars/Volkswagen/Golf_Diesel_Hatchback/2@dot@0_Tdi_184ps_Gtd_5dr_6Mt/Contract_Hire/24/Number_Of_Months_6/10000/OfferID/5653
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Not a problem, its actually a good thing a lump sum after 10 years of employment straight into a new job in the new year and a pay rise at that. So where are those car brochures. I dont really want to spend it all on a new car. The morgage needs battering down a bit.
I won't do another GTD as the new commute of 2800 miles a year doesn't warrant one really I fear that the mk6 DPF won't like it at all.
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Not a problem, its actually a good thing a lump sum after 10 years of employment straight into a new job in the new year and a pay rise at that. So where are those car brochures. I dont really want to spend it all on a new car. The morgage needs battering down a bit.
I won't do another GTD as the new commute of 2800 miles a year doesn't warrant one really I fear that the mk6 DPF won't like it at all.
Good to know you landed on your feet.
Regarding leasing, there are some terrific lease deals for BMWs out there, especially for the 3 Series.
This site is a good place to start:
http://www.contracthireandleasing.com/personal/
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I think the GTI looks better. The Golf R looks very dull & bland and 4 exhausts on a Golf makes it look like it's had a really naff looking aftermarket "upgrade".
I test drove both and I could have stretched to the Golf R easily, but it just doesn't have the GTI's eye catching look.
But obviously, everyone's opinion is different :wink:
(http://i.imgur.com/5Na0cLp.jpg)
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ajmoir36:
How about an Up! for £2.50+VAT per month!!!! £93 inc VAT per month in real terms.
http://www.centralukvehicleleasing.co.uk/vehicle/choose_your_lease/53745/volkswagen/up/10_take_up_3dr.html :embarrassed:
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I think the GTI looks better. The Golf R looks very dull & bland and 4 exhausts on a Golf makes it look like it's had a really naff looking aftermarket "upgrade".
I test drove both and I could have stretched to the Golf R easily, but it just doesn't have the GTI's eye catching look.
But obviously, everyone's opinion is different :wink:
(http://i.imgur.com/5Na0cLp.jpg)
Really? I presume red lipstick in the headlights is acceptable.
ETTO.
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Ah, but the red lines are synonymous with a GTI. I love the little red subtle touches on the inside too. From what I remember, the R had none of that. It was bland central. Nippy though!
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Ah, but the red lines are synonymous with a GTI. I love the little red subtle touches on the inside too. From what I remember, the R had none of that. It was bland central. Nippy though!
One is more grown up than the other both looks-wise and performance-wise and we know which one that is.
How remiss of me.
I forgot:
ETTO
BTW, have you read the latest Autocar?
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Ah, but the red lines are synonymous with a GTI. I love the little red subtle touches on the inside too. From what I remember, the R had none of that. It was bland central. Nippy though!
One is more grown up than the other both looks-wise and performance-wise and we know which one that is.
I agree. One is more grown up. And tbh, I think the R is stunning. But I have to agree that a little bit of fun and quirk in a car is pretty rare these days, and makes the car feel a little different to all the cloned crap on the market atm.
I'm not in the market for a new car. But I would find it very hard to chose.
Lol, who am I kidding. I would have the R.
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Ah, but the red lines are synonymous with a GTI. I love the little red subtle touches on the inside too. From what I remember, the R had none of that. It was bland central. Nippy though!
One is more grown up than the other both looks-wise and performance-wise and we know which one that is.
I agree. One is more grown up. And tbh, I think the R is stunning. But I have to agree that a little bit of fun and quirk in a car is pretty rare these days, and makes the car feel a little different to all the cloned crap on the market atm.
I'm not in the market for a new car. But I would find it very hard to chose.
Lol, who am I kidding. I would have the R.
It has just been voted as No.1 car by Autocar out of their list of 50 top cars.
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I'm not sure why VW missed the opportunity (maybe it was intentional) to make the R a little more aggressive on the front end, doing something to compensate for the visuals lost when the fog lights were swapped out for the intakes through necessity. The red strip running through the lights on the GTI are the low point of the GTIs front end for me. It puzzles me why in this day and age of shared parts the GTD and the GTI didn't have the exact same lights, GTI red strip starting and ending in the grille. Not been a fan of the GTI wheels either - give me Monzas over the axe heads any day -the GTD got the best looking wheels on the Golf. I'd prefer one large central trapezoid exhaust outlet on the R, but they're probably saving stuff like that for the R420, which will likely have brash looks to rival the Cupra's.
Some will love the "wolf in sheeps clothing" styling of the R (ignoring the back - by the time you notice that, the R has passed you) - used to love driving my boss' very plain looking Ford Granada Scorpio Cosworth for that very reason. If you want 2WD, more power than the GTI and very brash looks there's the Seat Leon available.
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I got a GTI PP, i prefer the looks of the R bar quad exhaust's, sometimes i think the wheels on the GTI look $hit, to big of a area of shiny chrome, they look better when they're a bit dirty. I could easily of got the R but i don't use the full performance of the GTI 99.5% of the time and when i do it doesn't feel that quick really but it a great all round family car.
One thing that annoyed me about the R was it's ability not to hit 60mph (manual) in 2nd gear, i know this is old fashioned benchmark and hardly used in the real world but did VW deliberately do this to slow the 0-60 time of the manual R against the DSG ?
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ajmoir36:
How about an Up! for £2.50+VAT per month!!!! £93 inc VAT per month in real terms.
http://www.centralukvehicleleasing.co.uk/vehicle/choose_your_lease/53745/volkswagen/up/10_take_up_3dr.html :embarrassed:
Haha brilliant I think I would like some horse power. But some days I do think Let's keep it cheap.
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Must agree with monkeyhanger that the GTD has the best wheels. I dislike the 18" GTI alloys, the 19" R alloys and can just about tolerate the 18" R alloys. The 18" Monza Shadows are the best wheels for the GTI. I still have a set of 4 brand new unused ones all boxed and waiting to be sold!
I like these 18" Ronals:
(http://i884.photobucket.com/albums/ac50/am1w/Ronal-R57-BlackPolished_zpsec140d3e.jpg) (http://s884.photobucket.com/user/am1w/media/Ronal-R57-BlackPolished_zpsec140d3e.jpg.html)
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^^ not keen on them. Neither do I like Austins and the Santiagos look too fussy. In fact I'm beginning to really dislike most of VWs current crop of diamond cut alloys (Monza Shadows aside), they all look just a bit cheap and tacky imo. And for that reason I'll spec Pretorias on my R.
Monza Shadows still the best by far.
As for the red stripe through the lights, I think this is the worst feature of the GTI and put me right off it.
Just as well I prefer the 'sleeper' looks of the R :whistle:
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Booth11:
I don't want to go above 18". Maybe I should put the Monza Shadows on the R? VWs Diamond Cut wheels are not the most aesthetically pleasing.
I agree, the red lipstick through the lights on the GTI is tacky.
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Jumping in on this topic I currently have a mk6 gti bought from rafi a member on this forum indirectly.
I was ready to trade it in for the new m3 saloon when I read the evo magazine review of the car of the year and they panned the m3 and raved about the golf mk7 R so have lined up a test drive for tomorrow at my local vw garage to see what all the fuss is about.
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Jumping in on this topic I currently have a mk6 gti bought from rafi a member on this forum indirectly.
I was ready to trade it in for the new m3 saloon when I read the evo magazine review of the car of the year and they panned the m3 and raved about the golf mk7 R so have lined up a test drive for tomorrow at my local vw garage to see what all the fuss is about.
The M3 is a great car and so is the R. You owe it to yourself to drive both and make up your own mind. The two cars are at different price points. Then there is the C63 AMG which will also be available soon.
So much choice.
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When is the Ed40 due and what is it going to be?
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Booth11:
I don't want to go above 18". Maybe I should put the Monza Shadows on the R? VWs Diamond Cut wheels are not the most aesthetically pleasing.
I agree, the red lipstick through the lights on the GTI is tacky.
Much as I love monza shadows I'm not convinced they'll look right on a mk7. I think they are better suited to the softer rounded curves of the mk5 and 6 and might not suit the sharper creases and angles of the mk7. I could be wrong though :wink:
When is the Ed40 due and what is it going to be?
Isn't the GTI Ed40 due in 2016?
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jesus those ronals how to ruin a 30K car especially on stock ride height
for me i would be looking for wheels that are not diamond cut for winter
i'm buying mrs w a set of winters for her R and will post some pics (probably on mine)
all a bit yawn on the GTI/R looks lets change the record
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When is the Ed40 due and what is it going to be?
I'd guess it'll have the same engine output as the lower/standard Cupra, maybe nicer seats and different wheels.
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When is the Ed40 due and what is it going to be?
I'd guess it'll have the same engine output as the lower/standard Cupra, maybe nicer seats and different wheels.
280ps? might be worth waiting for
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When is the Ed40 due and what is it going to be?
I'd guess it'll have the same engine output as the lower/standard Cupra, maybe nicer seats and different wheels.
280ps? might be worth waiting for
Ooooh, the torque steer, those spinning front wheels. What fun!
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have to admit if i go R400 i'm tempted to get an Ed40 as a daily
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Monsieur Savage:
(1) I will drop the Heavenly 7.
(2) I will always maintain that the R is the better car for my purpose.
(3) There was no intention to rub anyone the wrong way. In fact, I felt I was very restrained. There is more sensitivity here than expected. Just shows the extreme love and protection people show for their particular grown-up perambulators.
(4) I agree that the R, the GTI & (let's not forget) the GTD are good cars.
(5) I felt it would be very educational and interesting for the OP to post his excellent comparative review on the R Forum and fly the flag for the GTI.
(1) Thank you.
(2) You can maintain whatever viewpoint you want as long as you don't try and force it upon others. It's clear that you are in love with the R and that's brilliant.
(3) Well you are doing a sterling job of rubbing people up the wrong way, it may have something to do with the way 90% of your posts appear to have the sole purpose of aggravating people and attempting to initiate a response. Kind of like the one you're getting from me here, for example.
(4) Good, that's something we can agree on then.
(5) If you say so. We both know what the R members would say and that would be pointless. It's difficult to tell when you're being genuine as I have to cut through all the sarcasm in every post.
When is the Ed40 due and what is it going to be?
I'd guess it'll have the same engine output as the lower/standard Cupra, maybe nicer seats and different wheels.
280ps? might be worth waiting for
Ooooh, the torque steer, those spinning front wheels. What fun!
I'm guessing from this post that it's been a while since you've driven a FWD car. You see, differentials have improved drastically over the past years. The GTI has no torque steer whatsoever, even when remapped to 300BHP and easily handles the power. Jeremy Clarkson himself stated how impressive the GTI's differential actually is on this platform of Golf. My friend's Focus RS is at Stage 4 and pushing close to 500BHP and has no problems putting that power down on the road, regardless of being FWD. Yes an AWD car can make more use of that power from a standing start but once you're rolling it counts for nothing.
I think your opinion of FWD cars is either outdated or confused.
Anyway, since my brother has the R and I have a GTI I have driven and been the passenger in both cars on numerous occasions. I too believe the GTI looks much better from the front, styling wise. However the R looks better from the back. The sound in the cabin of the R sounds much better than in the GTI, even though both use artificial speakers to make the 2 litre 4 cylinder engine sound respectable. The "pop" on upshifts with the DSG box is also much louder in the R. I like that, some may not.
The R feels a lot more weighted down in the back, thanks to the 4 wheel drive system but this also adds confidence in the corners with the feeling of being well planted to the road. The GTI feels a lot more playful in the bends, as expected. Saying that though the GTI's PP differential is simply outstanding, allowing you to plant your foot down in corners and be catapulted out at speed without any oversteer, brilliant.
Performance: R Wins (Of course it does, it has 70 more BHP and 30NM more Torque than the PP)
Looks: GTI Front, R Back.
Practicality: Close but the GTI wins due to a bigger boot.
Economy: GTI is marginally more frugal than the R so wins this one.
Overall: Can't really call it.
I feel the Edition 40 will be overshadowed by the R420 though, if the Edition 40 does still get released. It's going to take something very special for it to come out on top.
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pitty VW did not lend Autocar a GTI for this weeks top 50 test
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When is the Ed40 due and what is it going to be?
I'd guess it'll have the same engine output as the lower/standard Cupra, maybe nicer seats and different wheels.
280ps? might be worth waiting for
Ooooh, the torque steer, those spinning front wheels. What fun!
I'd just like to throw this in there. 4wd would be dull due to the fact its so capable, it can cope with whatever you throw at it. It will take 0 skill to throw your R to 60 in its claimed time, especially in a DSG, Push and GO. A Gti would be more engaging, just because its not quite as capable, you are always going to be that tiny bit closer to the limit.
I do understand that an R will blow a GTI to kingdom come in a drag race, probably on a b road blast.
4wd is not the be all and end all.
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Got to say I preferred the R but bought the GTI - for cash reasons, but I still absolutely love it ! I've had all the MKs and as stated this is deffo the biggest leap forward. The mk7 gti feels so light on its feet ! And handles brilliantly, I also prefer the interior and exterior....... But I did prefer the r ever so slightly overall - it was maybe the novelty factor because I've never had a 4wd before - anyways the kids are out of child care in 4 years so I might treat myself to the R then ! Got to say I'm really loving the interior the LEDs and strip lighting looks brilliant In the dark !! Deffo one of the nicest interiors out there regardless of cost !!! Quirky tastic !
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Car Mag, Page 133, Dec Issue: Mark Walton has done a mini-comparison between the GTI PP and the R.
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Performance: R Wins (Of course it does, it has 70 more BHP and 30NM more Torque than the PP)
Looks: GTI Front, R Back.
Practicality: Close but the GTI wins due to a bigger boot.
Economy: GTI is marginally more frugal than the R so wins this one.
Overall: Can't really call it.
Having had both cars I agree with Mr Savage on all these points. So at the end of the day, it comes down to personal preference and what you can afford - and what you want. Personally, I want an Audi R8 V10, but that ain't gonna happen soon :grin:
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Performance: R Wins (Of course it does, it has 70 more BHP and 30NM more Torque than the PP)
Looks: GTI Front, R Back.
Practicality: Close but the GTI wins due to a bigger boot.
Economy: GTI is marginally more frugal than the R so wins this one.
Overall: Can't really call it.
Having had both cars I agree with Mr Savage on all these points. So at the end of the day, it comes down to personal preference and what you can afford - and what you want. Personally, I want an Audi R8 V10, but that ain't gonna happen soon :grin:
You can have the 4.2 for not far off the price of an R...
Used, of course
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An .:R, or GTI/D for that matter is an everyday, do everything including take you shiit to the tip type of car. Comparing it to an R8, be that new verses used, is hardly relevant. Is it?
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Car Magazine will be conducting a 9 car shootout with the R. Jan '15 Issue probably. Be interesting how the R fares.
It will be pitted against:
BMW M4 Coupé, Renaultsport Megane 275 Trophy-R, Jaguar F-Type R Coupé , BMW i8, McLaren 650S Spider, Porsche Cayman GTS, Ferrari 458 Speciale, Alfa Romeo 4C.
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So, to summarize, this thread in a single headline: "more expensive, higher performance car in surprise fuel economy and practicality shocker"
If you compared the GT to the GTI you'd probably come to the same conclusion...
There's very little in (road) car choice that's about anything more than budget and heart IMHO.
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So, to summarize, this thread in a single headline: "more expensive, higher performance car in surprise fuel economy and practicality shocker"
If you compared the GT to the GTI you'd probably come to the same conclusion...
There's very little in (road) car choice that's about anything more than budget and heart IMHO.
Or,
In the words of Andrew Frankel, Autocar:
The R is a car for all seasons and reasons.
It's a landmark in real-world performance car design.
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In the words of Andrew Frankel, Autocar:
The R is a car for all seasons and reasons.
It's a landmark in real-world performance car design.
I wonder how much the hospitality laid on by car manufacturers for the journalists influences what we see in the press? I was talking to a friend in R&D at Honda who was talking to me about the sort of jollies they were laying on for the hacks when presenting the Civic Type R.
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In the words of Andrew Frankel, Autocar:
The R is a car for all seasons and reasons.
It's a landmark in real-world performance car design.
I wonder how much the hospitality laid on by car manufacturers for the journalists influences what we see in the press? I was talking to a friend in R&D at Honda who was talking to me about the sort of jollies they were laying on for the hacks when presenting the Civic Type R.
I'd like to think motoring hacks are cynical enough to take full advantage of the hospitality and then write the truth :wink:
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In the words of Andrew Frankel, Autocar:
The R is a car for all seasons and reasons.
It's a landmark in real-world performance car design.
I wonder how much the hospitality laid on by car manufacturers for the journalists influences what we see in the press? I was talking to a friend in R&D at Honda who was talking to me about the sort of jollies they were laying on for the hacks when presenting the Civic Type R.
Oooh, you cynic! The plaudits for the R are pretty universal. If what you say is partially correct, it must have been some mega hospitality! :wink:
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It happens. Deep down, we all know it does.
Also, I'm not sure that being paid to spend a couple of days blasting over Welsh mountains in a convoy of laid on cars with your mates, will give a realistic representation of what these cars are going to be like when used for the mundane duties of a daily workhorse. It's easy to be swayed by what we read, but the reality is, very few of us will ever experience/appreciate what the hacks tell us about.
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It seems Mark Walton of Car Magazine, will be running a long term R.
He has already done a mini-comparison (which IMO is on the money) between his long term GTI PP and the R which will replace the former.
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pitty VW did not lend Autocar a GTI for this weeks top 50 test
VWFS need to get the R in a place where they don't have several thousand ex-leasers and PCP cars in negative equity on their hands and thus bolster up the used prices for all of their niche sporty models.
Not that any money or favours will have changed hands anywhere along the line…
:grin:
Not that I have any cynicism issues.
have to admit if i go R400 i'm tempted to get an Ed40 as a daily
I still can't see where VW will go with the ED40.
The PP is so close to the R on price as it is, by the time an engine upgrade, bodykit and different wheels and interior embellishments are factored in, do we get a car with 240bhp and VAQ at close to the PP price, or do we get a GTI with Cupra engine and VAQ and R400 lightweight panels for R money? hmmmm...
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pitty VW did not lend Autocar a GTI for this weeks top 50 test
VWFS need to get the R in a place where they don't have several thousand ex-leasers and PCP cars in negative equity on their hands and thus bolster up the used prices for all of their niche sporty models.
Not that any money or favours will have changed hands anywhere along the line…
:grin:
Not that I have any cynicism issues.
Andy, my dearest chap.
My R will be worth 68p after 3 years and for old times sake, you can have it for 69p (very French!). But I'll buy you the dinner I have promised you for ages. :kiss:
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Well drove the R today for the first time in dsg and was very impressed . It certainly felt different to my mk6 gti with a much better quality cabin and materials.
Dsg box was very smooth and i felt the extra weight of the 4 wheel drive running gear gave a planted feel on the road. Could not help feeling it needed more power.
The traction was never troubled even out of roundabouts with full gas in 2nd gear which was a huge contrast to the M3 saloon 2 weeks ago.
Overall a very competent vehicle just not sure if it felt special enough .
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Ps what is with the tiny sat nav screen ?
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More traction and more bhp doesn't necessarily = more fun!
For instance if I'm having a spirited drive in my 30K+ M135i round twisty B roads somewhere it doesn't necessarily mean the next guy behind me isn't having more fun hanging on in his 5K+ Clio 182 :smiley:
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More traction and more bhp doesn't necessarily = more fun!
For instance if I'm having a spirited drive in my 30K+ M135i round twisty B roads somewhere it doesn't necessarily mean the next guy behind me isn't having more fun hanging on in his 5K+ Clio 182 :smiley:
Call me new fashioned, but I don't like twitchy fronts and rears. On-the-rails for me in wet and dry. Now how boring is that? :grin:
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Realistically, the best position would be to have something that is super trick and safe for day to day driving (which most of us do 99.9999% of the time) and then some sort of fun mode available for those other times where things can get proper leery :D
I looked really long and hard at a GT86 before I got my Golf... I'm sure that fits the bill perfectly, except that I can't get my Spaniel in the boot!
Fred
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Realistically, the best position would be to have something that is super trick and safe for day to day driving (which most of us do 99.9999% of the time) and then some sort of fun mode available for those other times where things can get proper leery :D
I looked really long and hard at a GT86 before I got my Golf... I'm sure that fits the bill perfectly, except that I can't get my Spaniel in the boot!
Fred
I'd like a shot in one of those. But they are a bit impractical for family duties ( or dogs ) :smiley:
A bit like the Audi TT. Always fancied one of those (yes I know gay hair dressers car). I guess I'll just have to wait until the kids leave home and I'm on my third mid life crisis.
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I'm sure Eddie the Spaniel would fit in the boot, but the RSPCA might object :D
As for the kids.... well, I guess they'd be alright... in the boot :D
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More traction and more bhp doesn't necessarily = more fun!
For instance if I'm having a spirited drive in my 30K+ M135i round twisty B roads somewhere it doesn't necessarily mean the next guy behind me isn't having more fun hanging on in his 5K+ Clio 182 :smiley:
Indeed you're right Martin, the best fun cars I've driven have had quite low power outputs. In fact the more powerful ones you get to make less use of because most of that performance would just involve a nice man in a judge's wig taking your licence away and asking you for lots of money.
Mind you, I had the loan of an M135i yesterday…
… what a car! Enough said. Hats off to BMW for making that sort of thing at almost affordable prices.
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If VW would get its arse into gear with a warm/hot UP! i'd definitely look to persuade the missus into one. The Lupo GTI was an epic little car.