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Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: Gcixxer on 15 June 2014, 09:32
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I'm contemplating changing my 16v engine to a VR6 engine and besides the bleeding obvious of needing engine with ancillaries, gearbox and wiring loom. Would I need modified engine mounts and what other surprises would I get once I start, there is nothing worse than starting something and realising half way through that you're missing some parts.
Has anyone done one who would be willing to offer advice?
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16v to vr is easier because they share a lot of parts. I think both have to be either obd1 or obd2 to make things easier but not a problem as still all plug and play.
Just get new engine mounts
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What do you aim to get out of it?
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Am just curious why? :) There is absolutly nothing good with the Vr6 engine compare to ABF. (besides 24 extra German ponnys), which you can gain pretty easy with a ABF).
Looking forward to hear why :P
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Am just curious why? :) There is absolutly nothing good with the Vr6 engine compare to ABF. (besides 24 extra German ponnys), which you can gain pretty easy with a ABF).
Looking forward to hear why :P
VR is a superb engine, its failing is how far it hangs over the front axle and the result on the Mk3's pretty poor handling.
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Am just curious why? :) There is absolutly nothing good with the Vr6 engine compare to ABF. (besides 24 extra German ponnys), which you can gain pretty easy with a ABF).
Looking forward to hear why :P
VR is a superb engine, its failing is how far it hangs over the front axle and the result on the Mk3's pretty poor handling.
I meant more to the construction :P You have absolutely no clue how chains etc is before its to late. The smallest piece of crap can ruin it all. And to change the chain tensioner etc you have to lift the hole thing up.
And for what? 24 extra ponys?
If the Vr6 had the same construction as an ABF (on the same side of the engine) it would be great, but all that work...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1264409-DIY-Replacing-timing-chains-tensioners-and-guides-on-a-12v-VR6\
I would rather try and work some magic to the ABF then change to trouble ;) If it's power you're after. That's why i asked why? :)
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Stick with the 16v. If set up correctly it's a superb motor. However, if its the noise you
are after then go for it.
If your 16v is in good nic I would keep it and sort the handling etc out. You don't see
many good 16v's these days where Vr's are ten a penny, well in my area they are.
End of the day they are both nice cars if you can find well maintained ones :cool:
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Am just curious why? :) There is absolutly nothing good with the Vr6 engine compare to ABF. (besides 24 extra German ponnys), which you can gain pretty easy with a ABF).
Looking forward to hear why :P
VR is a superb engine, its failing is how far it hangs over the front axle and the result on the Mk3's pretty poor handling.
I meant more to the construction :P You have absolutely no clue how chains etc is before its to late. The smallest piece of crap can ruin it all. And to change the chain tensioner etc you have to lift the hole thing up.
And for what? 24 extra ponys?
If the Vr6 had the same construction as an ABF (on the same side of the engine) it would be great, but all that work...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1264409-DIY-Replacing-timing-chains-tensioners-and-guides-on-a-12v-VR6\
I would rather try and work some magic to the ABF then change to trouble ;) If it's power you're after. That's why i asked why? :)
That is why I asked the question as well :wink:
Its at least £350/400 to breathe a real 25 bhp onto the ABF and lot of garage time, a VR swap is the cost of the donor car/engine + chains if you want to do them, maybe £450 and a day or two in the garage.
I take vortex with a pinch of salt, VR chains are not that bad to do you just have to be a bit less monkey than most :grin:
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Thing is you can get the vr up to 195bhp just as easy.
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Thing is you can get the vr up to 195bhp just as easy.
how? What mods are required?
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Thing is you can get the vr up to 195bhp just as easy.
how? What mods are required?
Seriously? I just told you in your thread and then you quoted my comment :rolleyes:
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Thing is you can get the vr up to 195bhp just as easy.
how? What mods are required?
Seriously? I just told you in your thread and then you quoted my comment :rolleyes:
sorry tweed. My heads all over the show lol
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Thing is you can get the vr up to 195bhp just as easy.
how? What mods are required?
Seriously? I just told you in your thread and then you quoted my comment :rolleyes:
sorry tweed. My heads all over the show lol
:grin: :grin: concentrate on getting yours started
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Thing is you can get the vr up to 195bhp just as easy.
how? What mods are required?
Seriously? I just told you in your thread and then you quoted my comment :rolleyes:
sorry tweed. My heads all over the show lol
:grin: :grin: concentrate on getting yours started
yes damn right lol
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The only reason is the power of the VR6. The noise is good too. I drive a 14 plate VRS diesel DSG with 184bhp and want to get similar power from my 16V. I have put on a ported throttle body and induction kit but there isn't a huge difference. I don't want to destroy a perfectly good 16v engine by over modding it when I can drop a vr6 lump and mod that. Am I nuts or does it sound logical?
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You need cams, vernier pulley, map and rr set up.
Fully ported intake, head and exhaust to get a good 175+ on a 16v.
A VR gives you this but a lot of weight up front.
The 1.8t Gives You More For Your Money which is Why nobody bothers With VR or schrick cams anymore.
Shame as its fun to tinker
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Personally mate i wouldn't bother,
Two reasons really;
They are great motors, and it could be understood if it was say an 8v, but its a 16 so you'd only be gaining say 25 BHP?
Second, why an earth would you build something that you could just buy for the same price?
I couldn't see the insurance being much of a difference, I wouldn't build something thats already out of the showroom,
I say drop a 1.8t in it and go from there pal, So much more potential.
Joe x
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The only reason is the power of the VR6. The noise is good too. I drive a 14 plate VRS diesel DSG with 184bhp and want to get similar power from my 16V. I have put on a ported throttle body and induction kit but there isn't a huge difference. I don't want to destroy a perfectly good 16v engine by over modding it when I can drop a vr6 lump and mod that. Am I nuts or does it sound logical?
Ported throttle body alone without headwork etc will not give you extra
performance and an induction kit will certainly not.
Lighten and balance the flywheel, chip the ecu, sports stainless steel exhaust and
modified airbox with k&n filter and cold air feed will sort out the breathing etc and
add a bit of hp
Fully poly bush and Eibach arbs will sort the handling out along with some team
dynamic pro race 1.2s and some decent rubber.
You then can go down the lines of getting the cylinder head gas flowed with manifold
to match and high lift cams but that is quite expensive if done right.
How deep are your pockets? Reconditioned gear box with 3.94 fd?
Sort the handling, brakes, gearing and do the basic breathing mods first
before you go chasing hp on expensive engine mods.
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You need cams, vernier pulley, map and rr set up.
Fully ported intake, head and exhaust to get a good 175+ on a 16v.
A VR gives you this but a lot of weight up front.
The 1.8t Gives You More For Your Money which is Why nobody bothers With VR or schrick cams anymore.
Shame as its fun to tinker
I agree it is a shame. I am still in the tinkering game, just doing it wisely :cool:
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All those mods sound mad expensive. I would rather put that plus the cost of the car and buy a power house.
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The basic mods are not that expensive apart from the gearbox and headwork obviously.
Modified airbox you can do yourself. K&N filter, £40.
Lightened balanced flywheel, £60 (replace clutch at same time)
Sports exhaust, £350 or buy used. I bought used Jetex for £140
Cold air feed, dirt cheep.
Chipped ecu, £35
Those are the basic mods before the serious money. But like I said sort the handling
brakes and breathing mods out first. I would not say the Vr6 is a powerhouse. It can
be modified to be though as mentioned but nothing comes cheap in this world!
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The only reason you buy a vr6 is for noise :evil:
Same with r32, seriously why you you get one over a s3 or golf r other than noise?
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The basic mods are not that expensive apart from the gearbox and headwork obviously.
Modified airbox you can do yourself. K&N filter, £40.
Lightened balanced flywheel, £60 (replace clutch at same time)
Sports exhaust, £350 or buy used. I bought used Jetex for £140
Cold air feed, dirt cheep.
Chipped ecu, £35
Those are the basic mods before the serious money. But like I said sort the handling
brakes and breathing mods out first. I would not say the Vr6 is a powerhouse. It can
be modified to be though as mentioned but nothing comes cheap in this world!
Who has any of these? I can't seem to find these items?
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Its all been covered loads. Use google and research.
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Stick with the 16v and mod it.
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3 pages and no one has mentioned the furry of the ABF or the anchor weight of the VR6.
Keep it nimble, keep it light, keep it 4 cylinder
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3 pages and no one has mentioned the furry of the ABF or the anchor weight of the VR6.
Keep it nimble, keep it light, keep it 4 cylinder
Keep it nimble keep it light, surely you are talking about a Mk2 16v? :wink:
What's a Furry?
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A few thoughts:
A VR6 is FAR easier to get to 190+ BHP than a 16v...even a true 175BHP ABF isn't the basic bolt ons people seem to think.
A 190+ ABF is still bloody awful on standard gearing.
..so is a VR6 for that matter.
A VR6 will always handle worse than an ABF.
A 190+ BHP ABF is far nicer to drive than a 190 BHP 1.8T...and faster on a back road/track.
Sure, you can throw money at an ABF and get 210 BHP...but throw the same money at the a properly built A VR6, and the VR6 is so much quicker that it's far better spread of torque/power overcome it's ill handling on corners.
I built a 208 BHP/200lb-ft 2.9 VR6 that revved like a banchee and had turbo-like torque...and not even the best ABFs would keep this thing behind them. Hell, in a Mk3 Golf, it stuck with my 911 C4S up to 130+ MPH.
VR6s are lazy revving, inefficient lumps standard...but sorted, they can be mighty impressive.
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If you really want a vr6 lump instead of the 16v then you go for it. Just do the research and know exactly what you're in for and remember sometimes you never know what work needs doing until you're elbow deep in oil and carbon goop.
Everyone's comments above are incredibly informative, after reading them all I don't think I'd be able to choose, pros and cons to both!
For me ill keep my 16v for a while as it's not even on the road or been driven yet, and it sounds like they do have untapped potential.
Agree with the comment about the vr6 being inefficient, an extra 25 bhp for 10 mpg less than the 16v!! For the same money you'll pay in fuel you could have a scoobie wrx sti lol.
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If you really want a vr6 lump instead of the 16v then you go for it. Just do the research and know exactly what you're in for and remember sometimes you never know what work needs doing until you're elbow deep in oil and carbon goop.
Everyone's comments above are incredibly informative, after reading them all I don't think I'd be able to choose, pros and cons to both!
For me ill keep my 16v for a while as it's not even on the road or been driven yet, and it sounds like they do have untapped potential.
Agree with the comment about the vr6 being inefficient, an extra 25 bhp for 10 mpg less than the 16v!! For the same money you'll pay in fuel you could have a scoobie wrx sti lol.
Yes but both rear bearings only cost £12 on a golf lol im sure a scoob will be a lot more.
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If you really want a vr6 lump instead of the 16v then you go for it. Just do the research and know exactly what you're in for and remember sometimes you never know what work needs doing until you're elbow deep in oil and carbon goop.
Everyone's comments above are incredibly informative, after reading them all I don't think I'd be able to choose, pros and cons to both!
For me ill keep my 16v for a while as it's not even on the road or been driven yet, and it sounds like they do have untapped potential.
Agree with the comment about the vr6 being inefficient, an extra 25 bhp for 10 mpg less than the 16v!! For the same money you'll pay in fuel you could have a scoobie wrx sti lol.
Yes but both rear bearings only cost £12 on a golf lol im sure a scoob will be a lot more.
Yes parts will be more lol I did say fuel :p never mind the car the insurance the tax the repairs and parts etc.
But for the fuel economy.. :laugh:
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I miss my old V6's, something about displacement and the noise you get that stops you worrying about the fuel bills. Saying that petrol was under a pound back then :laugh:
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I miss my old V6's, something about displacement and the noise you get that stops you worrying about the fuel bills. Saying that petrol was under a pound back then :laugh:
hahaha ahh the days.. when i think of it i wish i'd gotten my UK licence earlier. went to uni, didn't need one and didn't bother and now years later when student loans don't pay my bills i think of all the NCB i could have had!
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I remember people saying im mad spending 85p on super unleaded :grin:
Said may aswel while its cheap because fuel will always go up. Now I pay over £1.30 for it :grin:
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According to the web it was 50.9p per litre back then :lipsrsealed: